My theory: McDermott never liked Daboll's high flying offense, but had to go along with it

[Since1981]

Let’s be straight. McClappy will NEVER tangle with 1/4 Billion $, Josh, NEVER. And, Josh is a politely quiet person. 
 

DIGGS will blow his top and/or “have an ankle” in 5 wks. 

Mark it down. 

[Billever76]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think I ever said it was Allens fault... He's literally one of the three best players in the world.. not even counting position

 

He's a superstar

 

But he could and probably would be better if he even sat his rookie year... It did nothing but good for Patrick mahomes Aaron Rodgers and every single other talented quarterback that learns from the sideline

I disagree we are witnessing Allen's flaws be exposed by his conservative HC putting him in a system that predisposes him to his flaws......it's like McDermott thought of a perfect system to expose his quarterback and installed it...I'm truly boggled how an NFL HC would force the best dual threat QB in the nfl and possibly EVER into a conservative ball control pocket passer system

[Dr.Sack]

My theory: McDermott always wanted to win with Peterman. 

[Billever76]

Just now, Billever76 said:

I disagree we are witnessing Allen's flaws be exposed by his conservative HC putting him in a system that predisposes him to his flaws......it's like McDermott thought of a perfect system to expose his quarterback and installed it...I'm truly boggled how an NFL HC would force the best dual threat QB in the nfl and possibly EVER into a conservative ball control pocket passer system

You could literally pick out the flaws of any qb if you place them into a system that is against their skill sets

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

I disagree we are witnessing Allen's flaws be exposed by his conservative HC putting him in a system that predisposes him to his flaws......it's like McDermott thought of a perfect system to expose his quarterback and installed it...I'm truly boggled how an NFL HC would force the best dual threat QB in the nfl and possibly EVER into a conservative ball control pocket passer system

This is the same coach that thought Petermann was an NFL caliber starting QB.  I'm convinced he doesn't know a thing about QB's.

 

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

I disagree we are witnessing Allen's flaws be exposed by his conservative HC putting him in a system that predisposes him to his flaws......it's like McDermott thought of a perfect system to expose his quarterback and installed it...I'm truly boggled how an NFL HC would force the best dual threat QB in the nfl and possibly EVER into a conservative ball control pocket passer system

Allen has had some of the same flaws for 6 years... They aren't magically now just coming out because of conservative coaching

 

Daboll was super aggressive starting games with 15 plus throws... but some of Josh's flaws still would come out

 

Because he never got to correct them fully.. you can't correct them in live game situations

 

Because when chaos ensues you always break down to what you used to do... 

 

Josh is supremely talented.. but the same flaws he had five years ago still creep up

 

And he still one of the best players in the world

 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Billever76]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

This is the same coach that thought Petermann was an NFL caliber starting QB.  I'm convinced he doesn't know a thing about QB's.

 

He doesn't know anything about OFFENSE in general....he wants an old school grind it out clock eating offense to hide the flaws of his over-rated 4-5-2 soft zone scheme

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Allen has had some of the same flaws for 6 years... They aren't magically now just coming out because of conservative coaching

 

Daboll was super aggressive starting games with 15 plus throws... but some of Josh's flaws still would come out

 

Because he never got to correct them fully.. you can't correct them in live game situations

 

 

Allen showed he is good enough flaws and all to win a superbowl as other qbs with worse stats and flaws themselves have won it all...McDermott showed us he is capable of stealing that superbowl chance away from our QB in 13 s flat

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

He doesn't know anything about OFFENSE in general....he wants an old school grind it out clock eating offense to hide the flaws of his over-rated 4-5-2 soft zone scheme

Allen showed he is good enough flaws and all to win a superbowl as other qbs with worse stats and flaws themselves have won it all...McDermott showed us he is capable of stealing that superbowl chance away from our QB in 13 s flat

So don't watch the Bills anymore

 

Allen is one of the best players in the world, but it takes a team to win a super bowl

 

And our team around him right now isn't playing like a super bowl team.. you want Mike malarkey as our head coach?

 

People seriously must have forgot the drought years... McDermott is far from perfect but it's not always greener on the other side

 

That's the only truth.. the grass is not always greener on the other side

Edited November 8, 2023 by Buffalo716

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, Steptide said:

I don't buy this McD doesn't want a high power offense. Was he not in Carolina with Newton and one of the best offenses that year? Also, I've never once heard McDermott say he wants to be more conservative. I think if anything, McD is probably somewhat responsible for trying to make Josh more of a pocket passer, but I just don't buy that McDermott wants a jauron style offense. 

what type of football do you think he’s referring to when saying complementary football? 
 

ball control and lower scoring old school wins 

 

or 

 

High flying so the defense can forget about the run aka Indy with Payton and the tampa 2?

Edited November 8, 2023 by NoSaint

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, Billever76 said:

He doesn't know anything about OFFENSE in general....he wants an old school grind it out clock eating offense to hide the flaws of his over-rated 4-5-2 soft zone scheme

Did you catch McD's after the half interview?  He seemed pleased that his defense had got it's act together and made it a little harder for Cincy to score TD's after giving up back to back long TD drives at the start of the game.  It was weird.  He then complained about the offense not playing "complimentary football" whatever the hell that means. 

 

The reality was that the O started out on fire with a great TD drive and then McD apparently signaled Dorsey to change things up on Offense to protect his floundering defense.  A defense which started very slowly giving up back to back TD drives to start the game. So yea McD made some adjustments that helped the D which was playing poorly while making other adjustments that hurt an offense that started the game out strong.  It's madness.

 

 

[Billever76]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

So don't watch the Bills anymore

 

Allen is one of the best players in the world, but it takes a team to win a super bowl

 

And our team around him right now isn't playing like a super bowl team.. you want Mike malarkey as our head coach?

 

People seriously must have forgot the drought years... McDermott is far from perfect but it's not always greener on the other side

 

That's the only truth.. the grass is not always greener on the other side

I see you are still defending the average HC while willing to waste the prime of a QB it took us 30 plus yrs to find.......McDermott will do to allen what Detroit did to stafford

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Allen has had some of the same flaws for 6 years... They aren't magically now just coming out because of conservative coaching

 

Daboll was super aggressive starting games with 15 plus throws... but some of Josh's flaws still would come out

 

Because he never got to correct them fully.. you can't correct them in live game situations

 

Because when chaos ensues you always break down to what you used to do... 

 

Josh is supremely talented.. but the same flaws he had five years ago still creep up

 

And he still one of the best players in the world

 

 

yea, like Brady and manning didn’t fix their flawed dual threat running skills… oh, wait, you wouldn’t put them in a scheme relying on their speed because no qb is a robot that does 100% at all world levels so you play to what they do at those levels.

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Did you catch McD's after the half interview?  He seemed pleased that his defense had got it's act together and made it a little harder for Cincy to score TD's after giving up back to back long TD drives at the start of the game.  It was weird.  He then complained about the offense not playing "complimentary football" whatever the hell that means. 

 

The reality was that the O started out on fire with a great TD drive and then McD apparently signaled Dorsey to change things up on Offense to protect his floundering defense.  A defense which started very slowly giving up back to back TD drives to start the game. So yea McD made some adjustments that helped the D which was playing poorly while making other adjustments that hurt an offense that started the game out strong.  It's madness.

 

 

it was a very strange sequence of comments 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Billever76 said:

I see you are still defending the average HC while willing to waste the prime of a QB it took us 30 plus yrs to find.......McDermott will do to allen what Detroit did to stafford

Dude how does 31 other teams feel? I guess you're new to watching professional sports despite having 1976 in your username

 

Because only one team is happy at the end of the year... So 31 out of 32 teams can b**** and moan about their players and coaches

 

And we've been at the top of the league minus super bowls for the last five...

 

Sean McDermott might not be Bill belichick but he certainly not average after transforming the bills franchise 

 

We went to the playoffs with the worst offensive unit I have ever seen in 50 years

[Billever76]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Dude how does 31 other teams feel? I guess you're new to watching professional sports despite having 1976 in your username

 

Because only one team is happy at the end of the year... So 31 out of 32 teams can b**** and moan about their players and coaches

 

And we've been at the top of the league minus super bowls for the last five...

 

Sean McDermott might not be Bill belichick but he certainly not average after transforming the bills franchise 

 

We went to the playoffs with the worst offensive unit I have ever seen in 50 years

Been a Bills fan since 1986 bud

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Dude how does 31 other teams feel? I guess you're new to watching professional sports despite having 1976 in your username

 

Because only one team is happy at the end of the year... So 31 out of 32 teams can b**** and moan about their players and coaches

 

And we've been at the top of the league minus super bowls for the last five...

 

Sean McDermott might not be Bill belichick but he certainly not average after transforming the bills franchise 

 

We went to the playoffs with the worst offensive unit I have ever seen in 50 years

Again I find it comical you credit McDermott for turning this franchise around when it's been more Allen and Diggs

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

Daboll to McDermott: “I handed you the game and you couldn’t even hold it for 13 seconds!!”

[Mango]

I think Daboll’s biggest upside is that he could be bit of a “guru”. In my experience those guys generally struggle with leadership. In his career as NFL OC he hasn’t done well outside of Buffalo. But he’s been part of pretty good teams in other roles.  
 

I think the more control he has the worse he does even though he’s a smart guy. I don’t want him in control of the org. Or even back as OC.
 

That was my thoughtful approach. Candidly I think he’s a blow hard. We would be better off moving on. 

[Buffalo716]

15 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

yea, like Brady and manning didn’t fix their flawed dual threat running skills… oh, wait, you wouldn’t put them in a scheme relying on their speed because no qb is a robot that does 100% at all world levels so you play to what they do at those levels.

it was a very strange sequence of comments 

Not being able to run isn't a flaw as a quarterback... Because you can get it done inside or outside of the pocket

 

A flaw is a hitch in your throwing motion... Or staring down your primary receiver... Or unable to find your check down... Or doesn't throw the ball away... Can't read a defense pre snap... Can't get to his third read... Feels phantom pressure etc 

 

Those are flaws that a quarterback can have that have nothing to do with physical attributes... And they're really hard to correct... Because if you throw the kid into the fire he will revert back to his Norm... 

 

But with the right coaching and circumstances can be corrected

 

And I'm not saying Josh has a bunch of problems... Not at all... Someone said how we messed up Josh's rookie year

 

And my only point was he would probably be even better today if we sat him for all 17 weeks... If he got an entire rookie year on the bench

 

he would probably be the Josh we know and even better because he would have been able to knock out bad habits... Which you really can't do when you're thrown to the fire

 

 

13 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Been a Bills fan since 1986 bud

Again I find it comical you credit McDermott for turning this franchise around when it's been more Allen and Diggs

We went to the playoffs with tyrod Taylor and the worst wide receiver core I have ever seen

 

Including an opportunistic defense that was built by McDermott

 

Diggs and Allen weren't even here for that

 

Again I don't think he's Bill belichick but he's also not a bottom 10 coach

 

You want him gone and that's perfectly fine... We were also 7-6 before 13 seconds which people said was our best chance to win

 

So we obviously righted the ship

Edited November 8, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Billever76]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Not being able to run isn't a flaw as a quarterback... Because you can get it done inside or outside of the pocket

 

A flaw is a hitch in your throwing motion... Or staring down your primary receiver... Or unable to find your check down... Or doesn't throw the ball away... Can't call the right protection... Can't get to his third read... Feels phantom pressure etc 

 

Those are flaws that a quarterback can have that have nothing to do with physical attributes... And they're really hard to correct... Because if you throw the kid into the fire he will revert back to his Norm... 

 

But with the right coaching and circumstances can be corrected

 

And I'm not saying Josh has a bunch of problems... Not at all... Someone said how we messed up Josh's rookie year

 

And my only point was he would probably be even better today if we sat him for all 17 weeks... If he got an entire rookie year on the bench

 

he would probably be the Josh we know and even better because he would have been able to knock out bad habits... Which you really can't do when you're thrown to the fire

 

 

We went to the playoffs with tyrod Taylor and the worst wide receiver core I have ever seen

 

Including an opportunistic defense that was built by McDermott

 

Diggs and Allen weren't even here for that

 

Again I don't think he's Bill belichick but he's also not a bottom 10 coach

We backed into the playoffs with the nfl stars aligning perfectly and allot of outside help beyond any of our control lol....you know how many forgotten JAG coaches have done the same? Even a trash can gets a filet mignon every now and then

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Not being able to run isn't a flaw as a quarterback... Because you can get it done inside or outside of the pocket

 

A flaw is a hitch in your throwing motion... Or staring down your primary receiver... Or unable to find your check down... Or doesn't throw the ball away... Can't call the right protection... Can't get to his third read... Feels phantom pressure etc 

 

Those are flaws that a quarterback can have that have nothing to do with physical attributes... And they're really hard to correct... Because if you throw the kid into the fire he will revert back to his Norm... 

 

But with the right coaching and circumstances can be corrected

 

And I'm not saying Josh has a bunch of problems... Not at all... Someone said how we messed up Josh's rookie year

 

And my only point was he would probably be even better today if we sat him for all 17 weeks... If he got an entire rookie year on the bench

 

he would probably be the Josh we know and even better because he would have been able to knock out bad habits... Which you really can't do when you're thrown to the fire

 

 

We went to the playoffs with tyrod Taylor and the worst wide receiver core I have ever seen

 

Including an opportunistic defense that was built by McDermott

 

Diggs and Allen weren't even here for that

 

Again I don't think he's Bill belichick but he's also not a bottom 10 coach

This highly prized defense you speak of when have they ever shut down a top QB in a must win game to clinch #1 seed or a playoff game?

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

We backed into the playoffs with the nfl stars aligning perfectly and allot of outside help beyond any of our control lol....you know how many forgotten JAG coaches have done the same? Even a trash can gets a filet mignon every now and then

This highly prized defense you speak of when have they ever shut down a top QB in a must win game to clinch #1 seed or a playoff game?

Listen you certainly can have your opinion

 

And I've already said I don't think  McDermott is the best coach in the league... But he has also coached some good games including shutting down the Ravens in the playoffs

 

What I don't get is everybody who says 13 seconds 13 seconds... So if we won that and ended up winning the super bowl he's not on the hot seat? But we almost didn't even make the playoffs that year 

 

Does anybody think McDermott actually maximized and overachieved with this roster years ago and maybe it's finally peaking?

 

Turned a 28th overall pick corner into an all pro... Sixth round Matt Milano All pro.. Jordan poyer was a cast away from the browns... All pro 

 

We have a third round pick in Bernard playing like a stud... 4thbround Taron Johnson... We developed undrafted Levi Wallace into our # 2  for years... 6th round benford 

 

McDermott has gotten a lot out of originally underpaid or under drafted players

 

And I do understand all the points you're making

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Julio Hopkins]

Adding to the Daboll didn't get along with Micky D argument is the Brian Flores class-action suit.  

 

“Ironically, during their January 11, 2022, text exchange, Mr. McDonnell also suggested that if Mr. Flores were hired as the Giants Head Coach, Brian Daboll might be interested in leaving Buffalo to serve as his Offensive Coordinator (‘Heard Daboll isn’t happy with Sean [McDermott] in Buffalo . . . might be able to get out if he doesn’t get a head job. . . thoughts?’).”

 

https://heavy.com/sports/buffalo-bills/brian-daboll-sean-mcdermott-flores-lawsuit/

[Scott7975]

52 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

This is the same coach that thought Petermann was an NFL caliber starting QB.  I'm convinced he doesn't know a thing about QB's.

 

 

Can you blame him though?  Peterman tore up McDs prized defense in practice.  He had to think Peterman was a god.

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

At the risk of sounding like a loon is there a possibility that McD benches Allen?  Hear me out here:  McD could approach Bean and argue that Allen's shoulder needs to heal fully so why not sit him for a couple of weeks. 

 

Remember McD is the man who benched Tyrod to go with the worst QB who has ever started a game in the NFL.  Peterman threw FIVE INT's in the first half, an NFL record.  McD then double downed on that decision and declared Peterman the starter over Allen the next year only to see Peterman set another NFL record for bad QB play - 9 straight possessions without getting a 1st down.  Then McD was forced to throw Allen to the wolves the next week and start him against a very good Charger D.  And don't forget that because of McD's infatuation with the worst QB to ever start an NFL game Allen missed taking most of the 1st team reps in Training Camp & the preseason games.

 

McD doesn't have a clue about QB's and I wouldn't put it past him to try to pull off a stunt like this.

 

 

And that's when if I'm Allen I go to Terry and say either he goes or I do. 

 

[Since1981]

49 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

complementary football

Yes. This is McDermatitis-speak for taking Josh’s nuts and spirit out.

 

McDaniel or Reid, don’t say “complementary football”. Worthless if you don’t score. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Since1981

[Scott7975]

44 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

And we've been at the top of the league minus super bowls for the last five...

 

Last 5? Did you get drunk and watch 2021 three times or something?

[BillsfaninChicago]

McD with the McM heel turn!!! 😮 

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Last 5? Did you get drunk and watch 2021 three times or something?

Well not number one seed top of the league...

 

What are we at... Three straight AFC East championships? 4 playoffs in 5 years and 5 of 6?

 

Two 13 win seasons .... I bet we're top 3-4 in wins if you go back 5 seasons That's pretty top of the league

 

I didn't mean number one seed every year

 

Minus super bowls we definitely have more wins than most franchises over the last 4-5 years

Edited November 8, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Mango]

Meh, I am critical of Josh about things. But losing a step isn’t one. He’s in year 6 and he’s a QB not running at 20mph shouldn’t have a huge impact on his game. And I am not sure he’s even any slower. 

[HappyDays]

I've criticized McDermott for a lot of things. Wanting a balanced offense is not one of them. A balanced offense beats the Bengals on Sunday night. Five years of shuffling around different RBs, offensive linemen, schemes, and they've never been able to get the running game right.

[cale]

Let's assume for a moment you are right. Maybe he was traumatized by 13 seconds. An Andy Reid type coach would say what a great game. A McD would be terrified because neither D could stop the offenses. Gives some credence to wanting to play "complementary football" ie don't score so fast that you wear out your defense. I think he's more Parcells like in that approach.

[John from Riverside]

Let’s face it talent Why is this defense is hurting

 

A lot of our salary, cap is sitting on the injured reserve, and most of those players are on defense

 

McD doesn’t want to see his defense embarrassed so he’s slowing the game down which is the exact opposite of what he should be doing

[Steptide]

8 hours ago, NoSaint said:

what type of football do you think he’s referring to when saying complementary football? 
 

ball control and lower scoring old school wins 

 

or 

 

High flying so the defense can forget about the run aka Indy with Payton and the tampa 2?

I take it like this - if the defense gives up a score, the offense needs to make up for that and score also. Same if the offense goes 3 and out, the defense needs to make a stop. I don't take it as, let's run the ball and keep the score low. Imo he means that both sides of the ball need to play balanced and can't solely rely on one side to win the game 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

10 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

My theory: McDermott always wanted to win with Peterman. 

But for the most part, that's unpossible! 😁

[boater]

OP gets points for honestly calling it a theory.

 

It would be an insult to language to offer so much imaginative conjecture as fact.

[Low Positive]

4 hours ago, Steptide said:

I take it like this - if the defense gives up a score, the offense needs to make up for that and score also. Same if the offense goes 3 and out, the defense needs to make a stop. I don't take it as, let's run the ball and keep the score low. Imo he means that both sides of the ball need to play balanced and can't solely rely on one side to win the game 

That's exactly what it means and it's a term that all coaches started using a few years ago. Before that, they would say something like "we need to execute in all three phases." 

[NoSaint]

8 hours ago, Steptide said:

I take it like this - if the defense gives up a score, the offense needs to make up for that and score also. Same if the offense goes 3 and out, the defense needs to make a stop. I don't take it as, let's run the ball and keep the score low. Imo he means that both sides of the ball need to play balanced and can't solely rely on one side to win the game 

I think he would like to see his defense face 7 drives instead of 9 drives 

[TheFunPolice]

4 hours ago, boater said:

OP gets points for honestly calling it a theory.

 

It would be an insult to language to offer so much imaginative conjecture as fact.

 

Hey, it's just a theory and worth what you paid for it!

 

I think my OP got more different types of reactions than I've ever seen. That wasn't my goal, though. I think my theory accounts for a lot of what we've seen over the past couple of years. 

 

It is, as you say, simply conjecture though. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 11/7/2023 at 2:21 PM, BillsFan692 said:

There are two lines and you need to start reading between them.

 

Every single time McD says "balance" every time he says "two dimensional" every time he says "complimentary football" he is telling you CONSERVATIVE. 

 

What does balance mean? It means run more. What does 2 dimensional mean? It means run more. What does "complimentary football" mean? When sean says it he means long, methodical drives that chew up clock and keep his defense off the field.  CONSERVATIVE.

 

There is a reason why Bills are always in nail biters. CONSERVATIVE!

I agree but man he sure has a way with not letting that happen with the backs this team drafts and signs! Singletary and Cook 2 bkup caliber backs and all the old men they signed here just straight up McBeane has no clue what a real elite running back looks like. Did u see Keaton Mitchell the other day 138yds on 9 totes that’s a undrafted free agents that’s already much better then our 2nd rd bk will ever be. 

[BillsFan692]

17 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I agree but man he sure has a way with not letting that happen with the backs this team drafts and signs! Singletary and Cook 2 bkup caliber backs and all the old men they signed here just straight up McBeane has no clue what a real elite running back looks like. Did u see Keaton Mitchell the other day 138yds on 9 totes that’s a undrafted free agents that’s already much better then our 2nd rd bk will ever be. 

Its our offensive line mostly. Our blocking schemes for the running game are awful and our linemen are basically mid to bottom tier.

[LABILLBACKER]

It's well documented Daboll & McD never got along. And if this theory is true, it only further validates why I can't stand McDermott.  You have a good OC who mentors & molds Josh from a raw Wyoming qb to a superstar.  What makes absolutely no sense to me is if McD wanted more "balance", why did he fail in drafting a better OL over the last 7 years. Our running game had no chance.  There's very little innovative about McD, and Dorsey reflects that.  Both must go.

[BCAS Baritone]

On 11/8/2023 at 3:04 PM, NoSaint said:

I think he would like to see his defense face 7 drives instead of 9 drives 

I think the Bills only had 7 drives in that perfect Patriots playoff game