Joe Marino says all-22 Review shows Josh deserves a lot of blame for Pats Loss

[Mango]

49 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Unfortunately at this point I don't think he's all of a sudden going to turn into a film junky.  Sadly at this point my hope is that we just unleash him and go all Cam Newton.  Hopefully we catch lighting in a bottle and can steal one title.  The shooting star approach rather than sustained long term success.  I just don't see special attributes consistently enough when he's trying to win traditionally.

I think he can get better at some of itZ. Josh is a good QB.
 

Sometimes it’s not so much that he doesn’t see it. He’s just trying to do too much. He just makes all these risky decisions, and when he gets into a bad groove where they aren’t working out so he presses harder. Sometimes it he doesn’t even see a guy, but there’s also a lot of “hold my beer, watch this” moments as well. Where he just says fork it. 
 

He should be able to make those moments go away.
 

 

[RyanC883]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Allen to Chicago for first and third overall, first in 2025 and 26.

 

Draft Williams and Harrison.

 

 

 

Like the advocacy here trying to get a rookie QB, always an interesting strategyF but Caleb is not the best QB and stunk vs. ND and Utah.  

[mjt328]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Yeah the #1 thing plaguing Josh Allen is his decision making.    Which is a function of preparation, not intelligence, IMO.    If he were prepared for what he's seeing he'd be much more efficient with his unreal skillset.

 

But, to me this was something that the Bills should have known he would continue to struggle with.    Ever since 13 seconds game I think he has decided that he is pretty great and doesn't want to put in a lot of hard work at the expense of his offseason joy.   

 

No reason you can't win a SB with a QB who isn't attentive to detail like a Tom Brady..........but you gotta' put weapons around him.    It's the Big Ben model.   Big Ben was a creep so people focus on that but aside from that he just didn't want to live football 24/7/365 and there wasn't anything the Steelers could do about it and he was still a top 5 QB either way so they leaned into it with a steady supply of playmaking talent.

 

The 49ers won with a QB like Joe Montana.  Then they switched it up, and won with a QB like Steve Young.

 

I think the Bills regime (former Panthers as we all know) is scared of watching their star QB have a shortened career like Cam Newton, and have decided to buckle-down on the unnecessary hits at all costs -- and we are seeing the early results.  

 

The problem is... instead of seeing a Cam Newton career arc, they are going to turn Allen into Russell Wilson.  An elite NFL quarterback until he stopped using his legs, and tried to become an immobile pocket passer.

 

[2003Contenders]

My theory is that immediately after last Sunday night's game against the Giants, Bill B. gave his buddy B. Daboll a call to ask him what deficiencies in Josh's game could be exploited.

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

I think he can get better at some of itZ. Josh is a good QB.
 

Sometimes it’s not so much that he doesn’t see it. He’s just trying to do too much. He just makes all these risky decisions, and when he gets into a bad groove where they aren’t working out so he presses harder. Sometimes it he doesn’t even see a guy, but there’s also a lot of “hold my beer, watch this” moments as well. Where he just says fork it. 
 

He should be able to make those moments go away.
 

 

 

I think having a calm and more experienced OC would help Josh.  

1 minute ago, 2003Contenders said:

My theory is that immediately after last Sunday night's game against the Giants, Bill B. gave his buddy B. Daboll a call to ask him what deficiencies in Josh's game could be exploited.

 

the answer was McD

[SWATeam]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

He should be able to make those moments go away.
 

He should but we're in year six.  I think he is who he is by now.

 

Take away his running and sometimes I feel like I'm watching Jeff George back there.

[billybob71]

this thread is depressing

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Have they coached him to regress in his reading of defenses pre-snap?

 

I know you’re making the point that they wouldn’t do this, but i’m honestly not sure that they didn’t do this incidentally.

 

How many times did we hear McD say or infer in 2021 that Daboll wasn’t running the type of offense he wanted?

 

It wouldn’t shock me if McD has made it clear to Dorsey that he wants a simpler, more balanced offense, and that may have resulted in less focus on defensive reads and changing the play script, to a focus on McD’s desire for a quick execution offense that relies on coaches in the booth reading what the opponents defense has been doing.

 

I think this is part of the reason his completion percentage is so high right now, but at the same time it has neutered him a bit.

 

Like anything, the less you do of something, the rustier you get at it.

 

I dont think it’s any coincidence that this began after Daboll left.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

The 49ers won with a QB like Joe Montana.  Then they switched it up, and won with a QB like Steve Young.

 

I think the Bills regime (former Panthers as we all know) is scared of watching their star QB have a shortened career like Cam Newton, and have decided to buckle-down on the unnecessary hits at all costs -- and we are seeing the early results.  

 

The problem is... instead of seeing a Cam Newton career arc, they are going to turn Allen into Russell Wilson.  An elite NFL quarterback until he stopped using his legs, and tried to become an immobile pocket passer.

 

 

 

There really isn't any good excuse for Allen to be regressing mentally.   If you don't work at it you get worse at it.  And he hasn't felt the need to fine tune the mental aspect of his game.  Russ Wilson was quite good for a decade despite never having the tools to be an elite pocket passer.   Allen has those tools.   He shouldn't need to run and the whole "let Josh run and fire Dorsey" movements are all functions of people being afraid to be critical of Josh and not wanting to own up to Beane not putting the talent at receiver to win with the "unprepared" Josh that they have been getting the past 2 seasons now.   

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

There really isn't any good excuse for Allen to be regressing mentally.   If you don't work at it you get worse at it.  And he hasn't felt the need to fine tune the mental aspect of his game.  Russ Wilson was quite good for a decade despite never having the tools to be an elite pocket passer.   Allen has those tools.   He shouldn't need to run and the whole "let Josh run and fire Dorsey" movements are all functions of people being afraid to be critical of Josh and not wanting to own up to Beane not putting the talent at receiver to win with the "unprepared" Josh that they have been getting the past 2 seasons now.   

But those weapons come at an expense.  If you need to surround the guy with multiple top weapons than maybe you shouldn't be paying him $250M.  Go get Brock Purdy

[Airseven]

2 hours ago, Dopey said:

Dan Orlovski showed at least three clips where the hot read was open on a blitz and Josh ignored them. There’s a lot of people that are not going to like this thread.  Hard for many to accept it. He needs to play better. 

Why wouldn’t people “like” this thread? The fascination with Allen being “elite” has become quite pathetic.

[Nelius]

1 minute ago, Airseven said:

Why wouldn’t people “like” this thread? The fascination with Allen being “elite” has become quite pathetic.

Good to see this guy return after sheepishly ducking his head for 2+ weeks after Miami got wrecked. Apparently the misery factor is that high again.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I know you’re making the point that they wouldn’t do this, but i’m honestly not sure that they didn’t do this incidentally.

 

How many times did we hear McD say or infer in 2021 that Daboll wasn’t running the type of offense he wanted?

 

It wouldn’t shock me if McD has made it clear to Dorsey that he wants a simpler, more balanced offense, and that may have resulted in less focus on defensive reads and changing the play script, to a focus on McD’s desire for a quick execution offense that relies on coaches in the booth reading what the opponents defense has been doing.

 

I think this is part of the reason his completion percentage is so high right now, but at the same time it has neutered him a bit.

 

Like anything, the less you do of something, the rustier you get at it.

 

I dont think it’s any coincidence that this began after Daboll left.

 

Nobody tells their Quarterback to read the defense less so that the coaches can do more of it. Nobody. That is a nonsense narrative.

[Chaos]

Top 15 passer rating and top 5 QBR rating for Allen in the game.   NFL average performance.  On average NFL QBs have a certain number of bad plays.  Allen is held to higher standard than any QB in the NFL by media and fans.  He did not have a bad game. Just not a great game. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Yeah the #1 thing plaguing Josh Allen is his decision making.    Which is a function of preparation, not intelligence, IMO.    If he were prepared for what he's seeing he'd be much more efficient with his unreal skillset.

 

But, to me this was something that the Bills should have known he would continue to struggle with.    Ever since 13 seconds game I think he has decided that he is pretty great and doesn't want to put in a lot of hard work at the expense of his offseason joy.   

 

No reason you can't win a SB with a QB who isn't attentive to detail like a Tom Brady..........but you gotta' put weapons around him.    It's the Big Ben model.   Big Ben was a creep so people focus on that but aside from that he just didn't want to live football 24/7/365 and there wasn't anything the Steelers could do about it and he was still a top 5 QB either way so they leaned into it with a steady supply of playmaking talent.

Allen admitted this. This isn't fans opinions. 

 

I was on this early with his physical conditioning. You see the offseason pictures - AGAIN not expecting a ripped 6-pack - but he was carrying a gut at the end of last season. 

 

We've all heard the stories about the drinking as told by Kyle Allen and Jordan Palmer. 

 

He had the Chris Simms interview where he says he does no upper body exercises. 

 

He has the Kyle Brandt interviews where he jokes around blowing off about offseason conditioning. 

 

But he came back to OBD this summer and said he can do more to be ready physically and mentally. He said he's never been more focused on football as he was for this 2023 season. 

 

 

[Bob Jones]

LMAO. Since I watched the game, I did not need anybody to tell me that JA17 had a "bad" game; it was very obvious. 😉

[Roundybout]

11 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

But those weapons come at an expense.  If you need to surround the guy with multiple top weapons than maybe you shouldn't be paying him $250M.  Go get Brock Purdy

No sane human being would take Brock Purdy over Josh, even on his worst day

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is the first year since his rookie year where he seems to be baffled by the defense’s presnap adjustments and motions, and where he seems to just drift directly into pressure multiple times per game.

 

HE IS NOT PUTTING IN THE WORK

I agree.  Time to play faster like we did in 2020 when we’d get to the line much more quickly and Daboll (ostensibly) would help Josh through the speaker until it cut out. 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

But those weapons come at an expense.  If you need to surround the guy with multiple top weapons than maybe you shouldn't be paying him $250M.  Go get Brock Purdy

 

 

Purdy has the best group of skill players around him in the NFL.    2 elite WR,  an elite TE and an elite RB.    Jennings is their 5th option and their version of Gabe except he can actually catch contested passes so he's useful in the short game.    Purdy with the Bills weapons........and without the easy reads of the Shanahan offense........is probably worse than the version that lost his last two games and looked like a total scrub throwing wounded duck INT's. 

[Buffalo03]

And we can't see the actual film he is looking at?