If the Bills Don’t Make it to the AFCCG, Should McDermott Be Fired?

[Process]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Who is better than McD that would be available?

Ben Johnson would be a home run hire. Have to think Buffalo would be a desirable spot for him as well.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Lol

 

Broncos fans would know they fired John Fox after 4 straight division titles and early playoff exits, then hired Kubiak who won the Super Bowl the very next year

Wouldn’t have anything to do with a guy named Manning?  And ask them how they like Payton, who as I recall many here wanted to fire McD for.

[GoBills808]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Wouldn’t have anything to do with a guy named Manning?  And ask them how they like Payton, who as I recall many here wanted to fire McD for.

as if we don't have a guy named Allen

 

that was such a bad comparison for your argument😂😂

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Mike McCarthy's intelligence and courage both resemble that of a chicken.

McDermott's do not.

 

I think that's largely due to personal preference tbh

 

Myself I do not find McDermott a particularly compelling intellectual figure nor do his words or actions lead me to believe he is more courageous than your average but that's just me

 

I was more talking about their respective career arcs and results

[oldmanfan]

25 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

as if we don't have a guy named Allen

 

that was such a bad comparison for your argument😂😂

I think Payton was a little bit better than Josh, don’t you think?  Anyway my comment is more directed at Sean Payton.

[ddaryl]

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

he could be like Dick LeBeau.  great DC, not there as a HC.  that’s not a bad thing, some people have diff talents.  if I’m McD I give Dorsey one more game, if we still look lost, Brady calls the plays.  off-season look for the best OC available.  

The argument here is Dorsey lost or is he just not capable of scheming an Offense for a QB who doesn't watch much film and seems at his best off script. 

Josh is a great QB but standard X's and O's I do not think is where he shines. Dorsey might be a great OC if he had a QB who could read the D pre-snap at a higher level. 

 

I love Allen and want his to coninue to be successful here.... Is there an OC out there that does best with a QB who does his best off script. I believe they're out there, unfortunately I don't know who they are, but that itself would be a interesting conversation.

I will say there is less that 1% chance Dorsey gets replaced this season. Just to late to draw up a new offense and teach it to the team

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 hours ago, Gugny said:

If the Bills Don’t Make it to the AFCCG, Should McDermott Be Fired?

 

I’m not in the Super Bowl or Bust crowd, but I am frustrated with what feels like Josh Allen’s prime years being wasted. 
 

The question posed is assuming Allen starts/plays every game this season. 
 

My vote is yes. 

Maybe Josh Allen needs to stop wasting his prime and start winning some championships…. he’s got plenty more to contribute as the team’s highest paid player

[dpberr]

I vote yes, but with a caveat.

 

If the 2024 Bills are the 2001 Bucs that fired Tony Dungy for Jon Gruden, they only fire McDermott if they've got a real plan with someone "better" in mind that they *firmly* believe takes this team from very good to great.  I, as a fan, don't have a ready answer to who that person could be at the moment.

 

You don't fire McDermott in a fit like the Bills did with Wade Phillips out of some desire to have a fresh start.  

 

Bottom line:  Both the Pegulas and the fans do not spend their money on the Bills because we're content with winning AFC East titles.   We also shouldn't have misplaced reverence for the Steeler or Ravens "way" either, hanging onto  "once great but now mostly good" coaches for 20 years to get that one SB ring.

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by dpberr

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Wouldn’t have anything to do with a guy named Manning?  And ask them how they like Payton, who as I recall many here wanted to fire McD for.

Manning could barely move during the Super Bowl run and had nearly nothing to do with them winning. 

[GunnerBill]

59 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Not necessarily fired but he should be demoted in the sense that his is no longer in charge of the draft.

 

I know that most folks believe that he is not in charge but his first season here (before the arrival of Beane) was a clear indicator that he was/is and looking at his early round picks, nothing has changed.

 

Hey, jmo.

 

He was in charge of the 2017 draft. He has not been in charge of the draft since. You can think the opposite if you like, but you are wrong. Does he have a big influence, yes because he and Brandon trust each other implicitly and are absolutely aligned. But because he trusts Brandon implicitly he lets Beane run personnel. 

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Manning could barely move during the Super Bowl run and had nearly nothing to do with them winning. 

True.  But he helped get them there.

1 hour ago, Process said:

Ben Johnson would be a home run hire. Have to think Buffalo would be a desirable spot for him as well.

Great OC.  But will he be a great HC.  The NFL is littered with good coordinators that didn’t turn out to be good head coaches.

[GoBills808]

51 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I think Payton was a little bit better than Josh, don’t you think?  Anyway my comment is more directed at Sean Payton.

I repeat broncos fans know exactly how well firing a perennial regular season hero can work out

[oldmanfan]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I repeat broncos fans know exactly how well firing a perennial regular season hero can work out

And when one does, and then hire a former SB winner, they are seeing right now how that works out.

[GoBills808]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

And when one does, and then hire a former SB winner, they are seeing right now how that works out.

So your Broncos comparison is a situation not at all like the Bills current situation, but the very relevant Broncos comparison I gave you is ignored 

 

Well done

[Bill from NYC]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He was in charge of the 2017 draft. He has not been in charge of the draft since. You can think the opposite if you like, but you are wrong. Does he have a big influence, yes because he and Brandon trust each other implicitly and are absolutely aligned. But because he trusts Brandon implicitly he lets Beane run personnel. 

I really do admire most of your takes about the Bills and football in general but I am not wrong just because you declare that I am.

 

After McDermott traded away the pick for Mahomes (being WAY undercompensated for moving down 17 spots), he of course used the first round pick on a corner to play in a zone. This in a QB driven league on a team with almost 2 decades of QB issues.

 

After this, most of his early picks were on the defensive side and he even traded up for another 1st round corner to play in a zone. He also gave huge extentions to defensive players and I'm quite certain that you know all of this. meanwhile we have Diggs at WR and who else? Of course there are also OL issues.

 

Disagreement is great but correcting someone as if you are a strict teacher isn't so great. Unless you were/are in the war room listening to Beane and McDermott, what you post on this issue is just like what I post.....an OPINION.  Did you catch the "jmo" after my post?

[oldmanfan]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

So your Broncos comparison is a situation not at all like the Bills current situation, but the very relevant Broncos comparison I gave you is ignored 

 

Well done

Your described situation is like Gruden and Dungy in Tampa Bay.  It can happen.  I would argue the idea that firing a guy and assuming the replacement will be better, only to find out he isn’t, is more common.

[Chaos]

A better poll question would be "how many years should Sean McDermott remain as the Bills head coach, if he never gets to a Super Bowl"

6 years, 2023 - Josh Allen is 27 

7 years, 2024 - Josh Allen is 28

8 years, 2025 - Josh Allen is 29

9 years, 2026- Josh Allen is 30

10 years, 2027 - Josh Allen is 31

11 years, 2028 - Josh Allen is 32 (final year of current contract)
16 years - 2033 Josh Allen is 38 

22 years - 2039 Jos Allen is 44

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I really do admire most of your takes about the Bills and football in general but I am not wrong just because you declare that I am.

 

After McDermott traded away the pick for Mahomes (being WAY undercompensated for moving down 17 spots), he of course used the first round pick on a corner to play in a zone. This in a QB driven league on a team with almost 2 decades of QB issues.

 

After this, most of his early picks were on the defensive side and he even traded up for another 1st round corner to play in a zone. He also gave huge extentions to defensive players and I'm quite certain that you know all of this. meanwhile we have Diggs at WR and who else? Of course there are also OL issues.

 

Disagreement is great but correcting someone as if you are a strict teacher isn't so great. Unless you were/are in the war room listening to Beane and McDermott, what you post on this issue is just like what I post.....an OPINION.  Did you catch the "jmo" after my post?

 

I haven't been in that war room but I have spoken to two separate people who have been in that building and have been in those rooms and have heard those conversations. Brandon Beane runs personnel. Of course he has input from Sean because they are basically joined at the hip. But the idea he is a puppet GM just picking who McDermott tells him to is just wrong. That is not how the building is run. 

[Chaos]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I haven't been in that war room but I have spoken to two separate people who have been in that building and have been in those rooms and have heard those conversations. Brandon Beane runs personnel. Of course he has input from Sean because they are basically joined at the hip. But the idea he is a puppet GM just picking who McDermott tells him to is just wrong. That is not how the building is run. 

Are you sure Beane had even been hired when the pick used on Mahome was traded away? 

[Nitro]

Every season the Bills go through a rough patch and the sky is falling types come out of the shadows with these type of pronouncements.  It is a long season.   Injuries happen.   Players excel or wilt.  Coaches make bad calls.  At the end all you want is to make it into the play offs.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Are you sure Beane had even been hired when the pick used on Mahome was traded away? 

 

No. He hadn't been. 2017 was McDermott's draft. No dispute on that. He was making the decisions that year.

[Chaos]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

No. He hadn't been. 2017 was McDermott's draft. No dispute on that. He was making the decisions that year.

I thought that was the draft the other poster was referring too. 

[BananaB]

5 hours ago, ddaryl said:

Comparing him to Frazier he is an improvement. Cosidering the injuries we've had he still has the D playing at a solid level

I’m not comparing him to anyone. Most of resources over the past 5 years have went to improve his defense. Injuries or not, the group should be playing at a high level because of what the invested in it.  For most of that period our O has been getting scraps. Oline especially 

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I thought that was the draft the other poster was referring too. 

 

No, @Bill from NYC believes McDermott runs the draft right up to the present day and that Brandon Beane is GM in name only. 

 

On 2017 there is no dispute. McDermott was in the chair for that draft and it was his decision that was final. 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

8 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Everyone here knows its incredibly hard to win a Super Bowl right?  11 Coaches have won a Super Bowl in the last 20 years in the NFL.  So you guys want to fire the best coach in Bills history if the team doesnt get to the AFC Championship Game?

 

Should the Ravens fire John Harbaugh?  Sure he won a Superbowl, but that was 2012.   He's missed the playoffs 6 of 10 years since, and hasnt made it past the divisional round in 10 years.     Is anyone going to argue John Harbaugh is a bad football coach?

 

Bottom line is you have to be in the playoffs to win championships and our current head coach has missed the playoffs 1 time in 6 years.   If McDermott were to be fired he'd have another head coaching job this offseason.

 

For the people calling Mcdemott Marvin Lewis, stop, you're making yourself look like a fool.   Lewis has a .511 career winning percentage, and never won a playoff game.     That dude got 16 years, and you guys are trying to fire McDermott, a guy with the best winning percentage in Bills history, and 4 playoff wins in 6 years, because you dont like that he claps a lot or because Daboll is more fun. 

 

Top ten defense in 4 of 7 years.   Top ten offense in 4 of 7 years.   Brought your team a franchise QB.  Wins constantly.      Stop with the fire McDermott nonsense.    You dont fire a proven winner for an up and coming coordinator. 

 

I suspect you guys all want someone more like Kyle Shanahan?   The guy who has lost more games than McDermott?  The offensive genius who has made it one round further than McDermott and still lost?  The guy who who has missed the playoffs 3 of 6 years?   Guess what, Kyle Shanhan was never coming to Buffalo.  Do you know why?  Because before Mcdermott and Beane the Bills were a trash franchise who had to hire guys like Dick Jauron and Chan Gailey because real coaches didnt want to come here.  

 

Please for the love of God, put a little respect on McDermott's name instead of constantly complaining.   He brought this franchise back to legitimacy.  The people complaining about McDermott are the type of guys who marry a supermodel and then complain about her one leg being longer than the other.  Please stop.

Is this Mrs. McDermott’s burner account?

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I haven't been in that war room but I have spoken to two separate people who have been in that building and have been in those rooms and have heard those conversations. Brandon Beane runs personnel. Of course he has input from Sean because they are basically joined at the hip. But the idea he is a puppet GM just picking who McDermott tells him to is just wrong. That is not how the building is run. 

I think this has been made abundantly clear by the multiple drafts and acquisitions who McDermott has all but refused to use. 
 

The disconnect between Beane and the coaching staff is something like I’ve never seen. 
 

Beane practically sacrificed his left nut to get a pass catching RB. Then Hines ends up being a returner. 
 

That’s just one of many examples. 

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

True.  But he helped get them there.

No … he really didn’t. 

[JohnNord]

19 hours ago, Gugny said:

If the Bills Don’t Make it to the AFCCG, Should McDermott Be Fired?

 

I’m not in the Super Bowl or Bust crowd, but I am frustrated with what feels like Josh Allen’s prime years being wasted. 
 

The question posed is assuming Allen starts/plays every game this season. 
 

My vote is yes. 

This is the ultimate troll job by Gungy

[Gugny]

Just now, JohnNord said:

This is the ultimate troll job by Gungy

I may be guilty of mildly trolling in the past. But those days are behind me now!

 

This is absolutely a serious topic for discussion. 
 

I’m not calling for the guy’s head. But I think we’re at the point where we need to start asking ourselves how long we can wait for this team to go the distance with a top tier QB. 

 

It took the Bills 17 years to replace Kelly. 
 

I’ll be damned if Allen’s prime years are wasted on an arrogant, rigid, beady-eyed little prick while other teams on the NFL continue to understand how to build around Allen’s kind of talent - and even some LESS-talented QBs. 
 

My frustration and concern are real … and so is this topic. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I may be guilty of mildly trolling in the past. But those days are behind me now!

 

This is absolutely a serious topic for discussion. 
 

I’m not calling for the guy’s head. But I think we’re at the point where we need to start asking ourselves how long we can wait for this team to go the distance with a top tier QB. 

 

It took the Bills 17 years to replace Kelly. 
 

I’ll be damned if Allen’s prime years are wasted on an arrogant, rigid, beady-eyed little prick while other teams on the NFL continue to understand how to build around Allen’s kind of talent - and even some LESS-talented QBs. 
 

My frustration and concern are real … and so is this topic. 

He's 26.

 

People are acting like he's 36 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

19 hours ago, Mr. Wonderful said:

This team under Beane and McDermott has had tremendous success.  With Milano and White on IR no shame in losing to Mahomes, Tua, Burrow, or whoever knocks us out of the playoffs.  People seem to forget the misery under Donahoe,  Levy, Whaley, Nix, and Brandon and coaching stiffs Williams, Mularkey, Gailey, Jauron and Ryan.  Geez!!!!!   

We didn't have Allen then.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

We didn't have Allen then.

Who brought us Allen?

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Who brought us Allen?

I don't think that has anything to do with McDermott's coaching ability.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I don't think that has anything to do with McDermott's coaching ability.

Maybe, but it does have to do with his presence.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Maybe, but it does have to do with his presence.

Didn't Beane draft Allen tho

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Didn't Beane draft Allen tho

Beane and McDermott.

 

You guys are fooling yourselves if you think you'll rid yourself of one or the other 

[Teddy KGB]

If we lose to the Pats we can axe him on Monday no ? 

[Chaos]

33 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Beane and McDermott.

 

You guys are fooling yourselves if you think you'll rid yourself of one or the other 

They both have contracts. If the Bills want to get rid of McDermott he gets paid.  He they want to keep Beane and he decides to leave, Beane does not get paid his many many many millions of dollars.  Unlikely he gives that up. 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

I think this has been made abundantly clear by the multiple drafts and acquisitions who McDermott has all but refused to use. 
 

The disconnect between Beane and the offensive coaching staff is something like I’ve never seen. 
 

Beane practically sacrificed his left nut to get a pass catching RB. Then Hines ends up being a returner. 
 

That’s just one of many examples. 

No … he really didn’t. 

I think its more the bolded.

 

Folks will say Kaiir Elam was a disconnect, but I think he's just a bust.  I think the defensive engine and FA/draft have been mostly aligned.

 

But I swear, they make moves that make me wonder if Dorsey is even involved in decisions on offense. Hines is one of them.  Kincaid is another.

 

Its like Dorsey just kinda finds out these guys are on the roster last.

Edited October 19, 2023 by FireChans

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Your described situation is like Gruden and Dungy in Tampa Bay.  It can happen.  I would argue the idea that firing a guy and assuming the replacement will be better, only to find out he isn’t, is more common.

Um, how do you figure?

 

Like what examples of teams with franchise QB's fired their HC and failed to find someone better or at least the same?

 

Packers fired McCarthy after 2 down years with Rodgers and hired LaFleur.  They went 13-3 3 years straight.  Rodgers won 2 MVPs. They didn't win a Superbowl either, but it certainly wasn't worse than McCarthy.

 

The Denver example with John Fox and Kubiak is apt, as previously discussed.

 

Tony Dungy retired from the Colts in 2008.  They hired Caldwell and went back to the SB that next year (losing it) and went 14-2.

 

Marty was Phil Rivers' coach in San Diego, they went 14-2 but couldn't get past the divisional round.  They fired him and hired Norv and were in the conference championship the next year.  Norv eventually puttered out to being a .500 coach, they hired McCoy who also puttered out as a .500 coach.

 

Eli had Coughlin, who was eventually fired for 3 straight losing seasons, and Bob McAdoo took them to 11-5 (he was a bum eventually though)

 

So I mean, really, how do you think its more common?  On bad teams, sure.  On teams with franchise QB's who all but guarantee you close to winning record on their own?  Nah.

[oldmanfan]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Um, how do you figure?

 

Like what examples of teams with franchise QB's fired their HC and failed to find someone better or at least the same?

 

Packers fired McCarthy after 2 down years with Rodgers and hired LaFleur.  They went 13-3 3 years straight.  Rodgers won 2 MVPs. They didn't win a Superbowl either, but it certainly wasn't worse than McCarthy.

 

The Denver example with John Fox and Kubiak is apt, as previously discussed.

 

Tony Dungy retired from the Colts in 2008.  They hired Caldwell and went back to the SB that next year (losing it) and went 14-2.

 

Marty was Phil Rivers' coach in San Diego, they went 14-2 but couldn't get past the divisional round.  They fired him and hired Norv and were in the conference championship the next year.  Norv eventually puttered out to being a .500 coach, they hired McCoy who also puttered out as a .500 coach.

 

Eli had Coughlin, who was eventually fired for 3 straight losing seasons, and Bob McAdoo took them to 11-5 (he was a bum eventually though)

 

So I mean, really, how do you think its more common?  On bad teams, sure.  On teams with franchise QB's who all but guarantee you close to winning record on their own?  Nah.

The two hardest things in sports to me are finding a real QB and, regardless of the sport, finding a great HC.  It is far more common for coaching switches not to work.