Zack Moss quietly having a very nice season so far

[Chicken Boo]

7 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Do you people really want to hand the ball off to a RB 30 times a game? Cause that’s what the Colts are doing.

 

So are the 49ers, Eagles (counting Hurts runs) and the Lions. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Chicken Boo

[Low Positive]

7 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

So are the 49ers, Eagles (counting Hurts runs) and the Lions. 

So trade Josh for a RB and get a point guard at QB? 

[Dukestreetking]

I'm honestly not sure how to assess Moss.

 

On such issues, I've decided on my strategy going forward: wait until @HoofHearted weighs in, then agree with everything he says.

[Buffalo03]

5 hours ago, Gugny said:

Good. He was misused, underutilized and inexplicably benched during his tenure in Buffalo. 
 

The disconnect between Beane and the coaches has been an issue. 
 

I hope Moss kicks ass. 

It wasn't inexplicable. He seemed lazy and barely did anything when he was on the field. I have no issue with us parting ways with him

Edited October 11, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Chicken Boo]

53 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

So trade Josh for a RB and get a point guard at QB? 

 

Do Goff, Hurts and Purdy not throw the football?  Do Amon Ra, AJ Bown and Deebo Samuel not put up healthy stats?  

[John from Riverside]

I’m happy for him, but I’m glad he’s gone

[stuvian]

Now that Taylor is back expect those to be career bests for Moss

[bmur66]

Moss must have figured out how to run with his eyes open.

[What a Tuel]

15 hours ago, Gugny said:

Singletary was top 5 in the league for YPC while he was a Bill. 
 

Similarly to Moss, they didn’t feed him. 
 

His YPC were better than Derrick Henry’s. 
 

The brain trust landed on giving him 12 carries/game as the master plan. 
 

Again, I say - the disconnect between Beane and the coaches is clear. 

 

Except we won a lot of games so what is the problem? The goal is to win games, not make sure our RBs get a lot of yards.

[Ramza86]

Talent wise...just above average...but hes runnin HARD. Hes def made the best of his opportunity. 

 

Good for him.

[Warriorspikes51]

10 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

So are the 49ers, Eagles (counting Hurts runs) and the Lions. 

 

Those teams all have dynamic playmakers at RB 

[Shemp]

Moss kept getting hurt here so he had no continuity. The duo of Singletary/Moss was among the smallest in football. The coaches abandoned the running game early in games because of the lack of production. But if you only run 15 times a game, was the Bills braintrust giving it enough of a chance? Chicken or egg? I don't know. Now the Bills seem to have a versatile threesome of three different types of runners. I like that but still no reliable bell cow.

[Gugny]

38 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Except we won a lot of games so what is the problem? The goal is to win games, not make sure our RBs get a lot of yards.

I agree 100% … which is why criticizing Singletary and Moss is silly. 

[BarleyNY]

51 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Those teams all have dynamic playmakers at RB 

 

McCaffery, yes. He is special. But neither Swift nor Montgomery is a particularly special talent. Both are having very good seasons and work well within their respective offenses, but are not special talents. 

[Chicken Boo]

53 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Those teams all have dynamic playmakers at RB 

 

 

More importantly, they have coaching staffs that prioritize running the ball well. 

 

Part of that is having the horse to do it.

[Chicken Boo]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

 

McCaffery, yes. He is special. But neither Swift nor Montgomery is a particularly special talent. Both are having very good seasons and work well within their respective offenses, but are not special talents. 

 

You don't have to be Hall of Fame level to be dynamic or impactful.  It just so happens that CMC is Hall of Fame caliber.

 

Swift is an all purpose guy that can also run between the tackles and Montgomery is perfect for what Dan Campbell is trying to accomplish.  They fit in the schemes their teams are running.  That's more important than anything.

 

The Bills, to me, don't have an identity on offense outside of Allen to Diggs.  Ken Dorsey sucks, so it doesn't matter who's carrying the ball here. 

 

*On a side note, it is my opinion that Beane really wanted Montgomery in the draft, but the Bears pounced first and we ended up settling for Singletary.

[Logic]

15 hours ago, NoSaint said:

yea, ultimately both these guys are below average backs but serviceable nfl contributors. It’s like lamenting that fitz or tyrod didn’t get a fair shake. 

I'm not trying to say that Zack Moss is great, or even above average, but....he's averaging 5.0 yards per carry and 111 yards per game this season.

He just had a 165 yard, 2 TD game where he averaged 7.2 yards per carry.

If that's "below average" and "serviceable", then get me a few more below average, serviceable running backs on this Bills roster, please.

[BarleyNY]

56 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

You don't have to be Hall of Fame level to be dynamic or impactful.  It just so happens that CMC is Hall of Fame caliber.

 

Swift is an all purpose guy that can also run between the tackles and Montgomery is perfect for what Dan Campbell is trying to accomplish.  They fit in the schemes their teams are running.  That's more important than anything.

 

The Bills, to me, don't have an identity on offense outside of Allen to Diggs.  Ken Dorsey sucks, so it doesn't matter who's carrying the ball here. 

 

*On a side note, it is my opinion that Beane really wanted Montgomery in the draft, but the Bears pounced first and we ended up settling for Singletary.

 

I agree with all of that. My point was precisely the same as yours. It’s worth noting that no one seemed to have a good read on the Iggles RB situation coming into the season. Swift has emerged, but he was not considered ahead of the other 3 RBs during the preseason. 

 

Interesting thought on the draft. 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I'm not trying to say that Zack Moss is great, or even above average, but....he's averaging 5.0 yards per carry and 111 yards per game this season.

He just had a 165 yard, 2 TD game where he averaged 7.2 yards per carry.

If that's "below average" and "serviceable", then get me a few more below average, serviceable running backs on this Bills roster, please.

Tyrod or fitz never produced stats like top 16 players for a couple weeks, right?

 

singletary is already a clear 2, not even in a committee. 
 

Its possible this is now the new normal for Zack moss but it’s be a surprise if he strings it together for seasons instead of being a pop that regresses to the mean 

Edited October 11, 2023 by NoSaint

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I agree with all of that. My point was precisely the same as yours. It’s worth noting that no one seemed to have a good read on the Iggles RB situation coming into the season. Swift has emerged, but he was not considered ahead of the other 3 RBs during the preseason. 

 

Interesting thought on the draft. 

 

I thought Sirianni was crazy to not recognize Swift as his #1.  Kenneth Gainwell?  Really?  

 

The only thing holding DeAndre back has been his health.  Talent was never the question.  

[Low Positive]

10 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Tyrod or fitz never produced stats like top 16 players for a couple weeks, right?

 

singletary is already a clear 2, not even in a committee. 
 

Its possible this is now the new normal for Zack moss but it’s be a surprise if he strings it together for seasons instead of being a pop that regresses to the mean 

He won't get the chance. Once Jonathan Taylor is back up to speed he'll start getting 20-30 carries a game. Irsay didn't pay all that money to watch Taylor sit on the bench.

[BarleyNY]

30 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I thought Sirianni was crazy to not recognize Swift as his #1.  Kenneth Gainwell?  Really?  

 

The only thing holding DeAndre back has been his health.  Talent was never the question.  

Next time I’d appreciate a heads up on that sort of thing prior to my fantasy drafts. 😁

[Mr. WEO]

He's a Cadillac hubcab on a Hyundai, I'll give him that.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

He won't get the chance. Once Jonathan Taylor is back up to speed he'll start getting 20-30 carries a game. Irsay didn't pay all that money to watch Taylor sit on the bench.

Moss is an unrestricted free agent in a couple months. 
 

I suspect not about to be a top 15 bell cow guy

36 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Next time I’d appreciate a heads up on that sort of thing prior to my fantasy drafts. 😁

several places rumored that the eagles front office thought his talent level was well above the rest and that while they wanted him to show it before handing over the job that behind the scenes it was his to lose. 

[T master]

Where was this guy when he was on the Bills squad ??

[C.Biscuit97]

19 minutes ago, T master said:

Where was this guy when he was on the Bills squad ??

He was given 225 Carries in 31 games here, 7 per game. I loved him in college. He was bruiser and those guys need carries to reach their full potential

 

this regime has been so good but let’s be honest, they kinda suck at rb evaluation. They love scat backs and put a good amount of resources into the position. I really like cook but for they have invested in the position (multiple 2nd, 3rd rounders, trades), the return kinda sucks. 
 

it’s funny because one of the few things the bills were good at during the dark days was finding rbs. Now we are awesome and suck at rb.

[hondo in seattle]

I'm glad he's doing well but I was never enamored with him when he was here.  

 

I have to say, though, he was hard to evaluate.  On the one hand, our run-blocking sucked.  Holes were rare when runs were expected.

Then again, runs weren't often expected as we were a pass-first-and-second team.  The fact that defenses were focused on Josh and Diggs helped explain Motor's and Moss's good YPC.  I did like Moss's effort, though.  He usually didn't go down easily.  But he was slow and with running lanes closing quickly in Buffalo (if they ever opened at all), that was a problem.  

[nedboy7]

21 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

He's a Cadillac hubcab on a Hyundai, I'll give him that.

 

I got some on my Hyundai.  Money rollin like honey. 

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He was given 225 Carries in 31 games here, 7 per game. I loved him in college. He was bruiser and those guys need carries to reach their full potential

 

this regime has been so good but let’s be honest, they kinda suck at rb evaluation. They love scat backs and put a good amount of resources into the position. I really like cook but for they have invested in the position (multiple 2nd, 3rd rounders, trades), the return kinda sucks. 
 

it’s funny because one of the few things the bills were good at during the dark days was finding rbs. Now we are awesome and suck at rb.

 

 

From Cookie Gilchrist on, we've been blessed with good RBs over the history of the franchise:  OJ, Cribbs, Greg Bell, Thurman, Henry, McGahee, BeastMode, Freddy, Shady...   

 

But over that same time we've had maybe two good QBs:  Kelly and Allen.  Arguably you include Ferguson when he blossomed into the guy who did more than just hand off to OJ.  And Bledsoe started out good for a half-season.  Kemp wasn't an accurate passer but when you throw in his toughness, leadership, and running skills, maybe you include him?  But, personally, I only count the two: Kelly and Josh.  

[Alphadawg7]

On 10/10/2023 at 2:58 PM, Gugny said:

Good. He was misused, underutilized and inexplicably benched during his tenure in Buffalo. 
 

The disconnect between Beane and the coaches has been an issue. 
 

I hope Moss kicks ass. 

 

Cant say a guy is misused when he couldn't stay on the field and wasn't capable of overtaking Singletary who outplayed him while they were both here.

 

Devin had him beat in every metric, including broken tackles, yards after contact, yards per carry, etc etc.  Moss didn't suck here, but he also didn't do anything to take the job from Devin.  

 

Now Moss is on a run first team with a much better OL.  So yeah, lots of RB's will look better there than they would have looked in Buffalo during Moss's time here.  But Moss wasn't the best RB on the roster during his tenure in Buffalo and that is why he didn't play a lot.  Doesn't mean he wasn't a good RB, he just did not take the job from Devin and every time there might have been an opportunity to cut into Devins snaps he got hurt and set back again.  

Edited October 12, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[JohnNord]

On 10/10/2023 at 5:58 PM, Gugny said:

Good. He was misused, underutilized and inexplicably benched during his tenure in Buffalo. 
 

The disconnect between Beane and the coaches has been an issue. 
 

I hope Moss kicks ass. 

I’m glad to see him doing well but I think it’s just an example of a player succeeding in a different situation.  

 

None of us shed a tear when Moss was moved.  He had opportunities over his first 3 years in Buffalo under 2 different coordinators and he never really broke out.  You can argue that he actually regressed in Buffalo.  
 

[716]

On 10/10/2023 at 5:58 PM, Gugny said:

Good. He was misused, underutilized and inexplicably benched during his tenure in Buffalo. 
 

The disconnect between Beane and the coaches has been an issue. 
 

I hope Moss kicks ass. 

This part