The Mitch Trubisky comparisons are starting with Justin Fields

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Fields is pretty decent. He can definitely be a Jalen Hurts type in the right offense. Chicago wouldn't know what to do with a QB if they had one (which they never did in the entire history, wild)

Wrong. Chicago had a franchise QB.  Sid Luckman. In 1949. 😆  He promptly retired in his prime. 

Anyway,  on that note... You know what's amazing? In ALL of Bears history, they have never had a 30 TD season QB! 

 

Geno Smiff slung 31 last year!!

 

Maybe playing 17 games a year now will help!😏 

[Franco_92]

53 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Yes because every QB does that from time to time, especially ones that people on here thinks walks on water. I see no difference between Hurts and Fields except Fields has no offense and Hurts was plug and play on an already great team

There is a huge difference between Hurts and Fields.

Fields has one of the slowest/laziest dropbacks I've ever seen. Chicago doesn't even scheme half of the field half of the time, because they know his eyes will never get there. They'll have Cole Kmet do these delayed chip and release post routes that he has no hope of getting separation on just to occupy space on the back side of the play. His footwork is among the worst in the league and the ball comes out of his hand horribly way too often. He skips reads on the most standard concepts all the time as well, which has to have coaches ripping their hair out. He freezes when guys are college-open even

None of this stuff is true of Hurts to anywhere near the degree it is with Fields even if Hurts does have life on easy mode right now. 

21 minutes ago, GustheDog33 said:

Every QB will appear to miss open receivers to someone unfamiliar with the play’s concept, the coverage, and how the QB is expected to go through the progression. The issue with the play that was posted by Hindsight is that Fields missed at least 3 open receivers and appeared to be looking in the direction of at least two of them. Number 2 on the left has a “free access” or “gift” route and is open at the snap based on the defense’s alignment. Every quarterback takes that throw immediately unless they don’t understand what they’re supposed to be looking for when they break the huddle.

Fields is so bad at dig routes/in routes, which has to be the only explanation for why he starts that play staring at a slow TE on a wheel route that started on the line while the ball is on the far hash. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by arcane

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

You'd thought Cutler had 30! Nope. 28 in 2014... Close... Only counts in horseshoes & hand grenades! 😆 

[Utah John]

Trubisky started out very well but regressed, so this early comparison doesn't due Fields justice.  But geez Fields looks bad, a lot.

5 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Wrong. Chicago had a franchise QB.  Sid Luckman. In 1949. 😆  He promptly retired in his prime. 

Anyway,  on that note... You know what's amazing? In ALL of Bears history, they have never had a 30 TD season QB! 

 

Geno Smiff slung 31 last year!!

 

Maybe playing 17 games a year now will help!😏 

I was thinking Jim McMahon (85 Bears) must have had at least 30.  Nope.  He had 15!  And 2392 yards with a QB rating of 82.6.  They were a great team, maybe the best ever, but it wasn't from great QB play.  Of course that was 38 years ago and the game has changed, so passing stats are hard to compare.  But only 15 TDs.  Wow.

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

It’s starting in Chicago and this cannot end well…

Through 27 career starts ...

Fields:

59.9 Cmp%

4,469 Pass yards

1,591 Rush yards

36 Pass & Rush TD

31 Turnovers

79.7 Pass Rtg

Trubisky:

63.2 Cmp %

5,644 Pass yards

680 Rush yads

36 Pass & Rush TD

26 Turnovers

86.3 Pass Rtg

 

 

 

 

It could easily end well.

 

But will it?

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Yes because every QB does that from time to time, especially ones that people on here thinks walks on water. I see no difference between Hurts and Fields except Fields has no offense and Hurts was plug and play on an already great team

 

 

Not at all convinced that the difference between Fields and Hurts is all circumstances. Doesn't look that way to me.

 

But yeah, I'm convinced Fields still has a chance. He'll need to improve a lot, but some guys do.

[GunnerBill]

I get that the numbers are the same but not much else is between Trubisky and Fields. The guy Fields most reminds me of is Marcus Mariota. A good runner. A good thrower. Has the arm talent to make all of the throws. But he just plays so mechanically. Seems to lack feel and instinct. I said when he was coming out the fit for Fields was a Shanahan style offense. Where it gives the Quarterback "paint by numbers" reads and they don't have to think too much for themselves. I am not saying he could be elite but his best chance of being a serviceable starter is still in that style of scheme IMO. Not saying it is all on the OC as Bears fans seem to think, it's not, but I don't think the offense and the Quarterback are really a match for one another.

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 hours ago, Utah John said:

Trubisky started out very well but regressed, so this early comparison doesn't due Fields justice.  But geez Fields looks bad, a lot.

I was thinking Jim McMahon (85 Bears) must have had at least 30.  Nope.  He had 15!  And 2392 yards with a QB rating of 82.6.  They were a great team, maybe the best ever, but it wasn't from great QB play.  Of course that was 38 years ago and the game has changed, so passing stats are hard to compare.  But only 15 TDs.  Wow.

Daryle Lamonica had 34 in 1969.

 

Fergy had 26 in 1983.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by ExiledInIllinois

[Royale with Cheese]

11 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Yes because every QB does that from time to time, especially ones that people on here thinks walks on water. I see no difference between Hurts and Fields except Fields has no offense and Hurts was plug and play on an already great team

 

So if Fields was on the Eagles, he would have been the #2 player in the NFL in the NFL's Top 100?

[Mr. WEO]

What a mess that 2021 1st round QB draft was.  Low wattage Lawrence is the only hit.

[Dan Darragh]

Am I mistaken in thinking that the Bears traded up to get both of them?

 

I think they took Mitch over Mahomes.  In the Fields draft, all the QBs were trash except Trevor Lawrence.

[KDIGGZ]

30 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So if Fields was on the Eagles, he would have been the #2 player in the NFL in the NFL's Top 100?

Hurts is #2 because...? Check his stats. They don't ask him to do too much. He's an average player on a very good team. You really think Hurts and Tua and Purdy are good? They get it into the hands of the players that are good. They are efficient at what they do

[Franco_92]

4 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Hurts is #2 because...? Check his stats. They don't ask him to do too much. He's an average player on a very good team. You really think Hurts and Tua and Purdy are good? They get it into the hands of the players that are good. They are efficient at what they do

I agree in general that Hurts is overrated, but the bolded is very difficult for QBs and Fields is about as inefficient as you can get at the position. 

 

Tua and Hurts are ABSOLUTELY good NFL QBs, or else there are only like 3-5 good NFL QBs, and I don't believe that. Purdy is also playing that well, just need the bigger sample size to confirm it 

[somnus00]

I was never high on Fields. But the Bears organization did him no favors. They failed him. Completely blew up the roster before last season.

[Shaw66]

16 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

It’s starting in Chicago and this cannot end well…

Through 27 career starts ...

Fields:

59.9 Cmp%

4,469 Pass yards

1,591 Rush yards

36 Pass & Rush TD

31 Turnovers

79.7 Pass Rtg

Trubisky:

63.2 Cmp %

5,644 Pass yards

680 Rush yads

36 Pass & Rush TD

26 Turnovers

86.3 Pass Rtg

 

 

A lot more QBs get hyped in the draft and their first year or two than deserve it.  

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Hurts is #2 because...? Check his stats. They don't ask him to do too much. He's an average player on a very good team. You really think Hurts and Tua and Purdy are good? They get it into the hands of the players that are good. They are efficient at what they do

 

The guys who play against him voted him #2.  It's not my ranking, it's their rankings.

 

So if you don't see a difference between Fields and Hurts, Fields takes the Eagles to the Super Bowl last year and has them #3 in scoring?

[Low Positive]

26 minutes ago, Dan Darragh said:

Am I mistaken in thinking that the Bears traded up to get both of them?

 

I think they took Mitch over Mahomes.  In the Fields draft, all the QBs were trash except Trevor Lawrence.

They gave up a lot for Fields. It was their 2021 first (20th), fifth, and their 2022 first and fourth. Just brutal.

[KDIGGZ]

12 minutes ago, arcane said:

I agree in general that Hurts is overrated, but the bolded is very difficult for QBs and Fields is about as inefficient as you can get at the position. 

 

Tua and Hurts are ABSOLUTELY good NFL QBs, or else there are only like 3-5 good NFL QBs, and I don't believe that. Purdy is also playing that well, just need the bigger sample size to confirm it 

Hurts, Tua, Purdy are all on VERY GOOD teams. Put them on Chicago and they are out of the league by now. Because they are on great teams they are not asked to do too much, just make the simple throw and let the playmakers do the rest. Fields is trying to do too much because he knows his team stinks and it's up to him to do it all. If they said you have 1 read either throw it here or here I think he could be just as good as those guys mentioned.

[Franco_92]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

Hurts, Tua, Purdy are all on VERY GOOD teams. Put them on Chicago and they are out of the league by now. Because they are on great teams they are not asked to do too much, just make the simple throw and let the playmakers do the rest. Fields is trying to do too much because he knows his team stinks and it's up to him to do it all. If they said you have 1 read either throw it here or here I think he could be just as good as those guys mentioned.

Fields is not trying to do too much. He is making kindergarten mistakes on high school level reads that are as wide open as you'll ever see in the NFL. 

[KDIGGZ]

11 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The guys who play against him voted him #2.  It's not my ranking, it's their rankings.

 

So if you don't see a difference between Fields and Hurts, Fields takes the Eagles to the Super Bowl last year and has them #3 in scoring?

Hurts lost his job in college to Tua and had to transfer. He's not good. He's just not asked to do too much now because he's on the best team in the NFL. If he was on Chicago he would be out of the league by now. You guys forget that the Eagles tried to replace him with Deshaun Watson and also had considered drafting another QB 2 years ago. Now he's the 2nd best player in the NFL? Riiiiight 

[Franco_92]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

Hurts lost his job in college to Tua and had to transfer. He's not good. He's just not asked to do too much now because he's on the best team in the NFL. If he was on Chicago he would be out of the league by now. You guys forget that the Eagles tried to replace him with Deshaun Watson and also had considered drafting another QB 2 years ago. Now he's the 2nd best player in the NFL? Riiiiight 

But the film shows Hurts making and hitting reads on every drive he plays, that make Fields triple hitch, pat the ball, and take a sack. Even accounting for the (vast) gap in quality between schemes and personnel, there is a MASSIVE gap between these two on film. Hurts has VERY GOOD mechanics and makes consistently good decisions and understands play concepts as they are called. Fields is fiendishly bad at ALL of that.

 

You are shifting goalposts, because I"ve already said that I don't think Hurts is the second best player, I called him overrated. But he executes the position of quarterback at the NFL WELL. Yes, it's easier to do that when your team is competent, but there is film of him doing difficult stuff consistently. There is no film of Fields doing that aside from crazy jukes on linebackers (after his WRs clap their hands frustratedly while he passes them by) 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Hurts lost his job in college to Tua and had to transfer. He's not good. He's just not asked to do too much now because he's on the best team in the NFL. If he was on Chicago he would be out of the league by now. You guys forget that the Eagles tried to replace him with Deshaun Watson and also had considered drafting another QB 2 years ago. Now he's the 2nd best player in the NFL? Riiiiight 

 

Fields also lost his job to Stetson Bennett in college.  But Hurts losing his job to Tua means he's not good but Fields losing his job to Stetson Bennett means he's decent?  

 

Again, it's not my ranking.  Your issues is the NFL players rankings, not mine.  I will agree from my personal opinion, that he's not #2 and probably a little overrated.  That doesn't mean he's at Justin Fields level.  Fields is terrible.

 

You didn't answer my question and skirting around it.  

Does Justin Fields take the Eagles to the Super Bowl last year?  Does he lead the Eagles to the #3 scoring offense?

Edited September 20, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[The Wiz]

This is too good 🤣

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by The Wiz

[Franco_92]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Fields also lost his job to Stetson Bennett in college.  But Hurts losing his job to Tua means he's not good but Fields losing his job to Stetson Bennett means he's decent?  

 

Again, it's not my ranking.  Your issues is the NFL players rankings, not mine.  I will agree from my personal opinion, that he's not #2 and probably a little overrated.  That doesn't mean he's at Justin Fields level.  Fields is terrible.

 

You didn't answer my question and skirting around it.  

Does Justin Fields take the Eagles to the Super Bowl last year?  Does he lead the Eagles to the #3 scoring offense?

The only route Fields can throw with any consistency and anticipation is a hitch/curl. Almost any Jalen Hurts passing highlight from last year, you can find video of Fields cringing away from that same route concept consistently

[Coach Tuesday]

12 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Hurts lost his job in college to Tua and had to transfer. He's not good. He's just not asked to do too much now because he's on the best team in the NFL. If he was on Chicago he would be out of the league by now. You guys forget that the Eagles tried to replace him with Deshaun Watson and also had considered drafting another QB 2 years ago. Now he's the 2nd best player in the NFL? Riiiiight 

This is a shockingly bad take.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

The only route Fields can throw with any consistency and anticipation is a hitch/curl. Almost any Jalen Hurts passing highlight from last year, you can find video of Fields cringing away from that same route concept consistently

 

Yep.  It was similar to Tyrod Taylor.  Taylor either threw a fly route or hitch/curl route and avoided the middle of the field (no pun intended) where there was traffic and had to fit the ball into windows.

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yep.  It was similar to Tyrod Taylor.  Taylor either threw a fly route or hitch/curl route and avoided the middle of the field (no pun intended) where there was traffic and had to fit the ball into windows.

With Taylor, it was (is?) a business decision. INTs get mentioned at contract negotiation time. As a matter of fact, his lack of INTs has created a pretty nice NFL career. According to Spotrec, he's made over 70 million not throwing INTs. 

[FireChans]

Another “he’s different” OSU QB who can’t hack it.

 

CJ Stroud, our lonely nation turns its eyes to you.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Utah John said:

Trubisky started out very well but regressed, so this early comparison doesn't due Fields justice.  But geez Fields looks bad, a lot.

I was thinking Jim McMahon (85 Bears) must have had at least 30.  Nope.  He had 15!  And 2392 yards with a QB rating of 82.6.  They were a great team, maybe the best ever, but it wasn't from great QB play.  Of course that was 38 years ago and the game has changed, so passing stats are hard to compare.  But only 15 TDs.  Wow.

 

 

McMahon wasn't all that good.

 

But also keep mind he never played more than 14 games. And that was only one year. Other than that his high was 13 games in one year.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Fields also lost his job to Stetson Bennett in college.  But Hurts losing his job to Tua means he's not good but Fields losing his job to Stetson Bennett means he's decent?  

 

Again, it's not my ranking.  Your issues is the NFL players rankings, not mine.  I will agree from my personal opinion, that he's not #2 and probably a little overrated.  That doesn't mean he's at Justin Fields level.  Fields is terrible.

 

You didn't answer my question and skirting around it.  

Does Justin Fields take the Eagles to the Super Bowl last year?  Does he lead the Eagles to the #3 scoring offense?

 

 

He hasn't answered yet, but IMO those are two great questions and the answer to both is no.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Thurman#1

[KDIGGZ]

23 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is a shockingly bad take.

They have tried to get rid of him every stop he's made is the point. I don't think they do that if you are an amazing QB. Maybe if you are limited 1-read guy though. Deshaun Watson picked Cleveland over Philly otherwise Jalen Hurts is in the XFL by now 

[Royale with Cheese]

15 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

With Taylor, it was (is?) a business decision. INTs get mentioned at contract negotiation time. As a matter of fact, his lack of INTs has created a pretty nice NFL career. According to Spotrec, he's made over 70 million not throwing INTs. 

 

Yeah but Allen has made $250,000,000 throwing INT's.  So I guess this means INT's equal $$$???

2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

They have tried to get rid of him every stop he's made is the point. I don't think they do that if you are an amazing QB. Maybe if you are limited 1-read guy though. Deshaun Watson picked Cleveland over Philly otherwise Jalen Hurts is in the XFL by now 

 

You're going to keep doubling down on this take now huh?  

 

How bad were they trying to get rid of him when they signed him to a $255,000,000 contract?  

[KDIGGZ]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah but Allen has made $250,000,000 throwing INT's.  So I guess this means INT's equal $$$???

 

You're going to keep doubling down on this take now huh?  

 

How bad were they trying to get rid of him when they signed him to a $255,000,000 contract?  

So they didn't try to get Deshaun Watson before that? You guys have short memories

[Franco_92]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

So they didn't try to get Deshaun Watson before that? You guys have short memories

The things that happened between the event you are talking about and this conversation:

 

1.) Watson turned into a dog**** qb

2.) Hurts took 2 leaps in development to become a legitimately good (if overrated by peers) qb

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

So they didn't try to get Deshaun Watson before that? You guys have short memories

 

How much are you going to reach?  

 

It's like you're pounding the table that QB's can't get better.  Is Hurts a better QB than in 2021?

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Dan Darragh said:

Am I mistaken in thinking that the Bears traded up to get both of them?

 

I think they took Mitch over Mahomes.  In the Fields draft, all the QBs were trash except Trevor Lawrence.

 

 

IMO it's too early to say that about McCorkle. I'm hoping, but he still has a chance to be genuinely good, I think.

 

 

19 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

They have tried to get rid of him every stop he's made is the point. I don't think they do that if you are an amazing QB. Maybe if you are limited 1-read guy though. Deshaun Watson picked Cleveland over Philly otherwise Jalen Hurts is in the XFL by now 

 

 

They tried to get rid of Bart Starr everywhere he was. He was an amazing QB, a Hall of Famer. Kurt Warner. Unitas had to go play semi-pro. Theismann. Steve Young. The list goes on.

 

Plenty of QBs who became amazing had teams attempting to upgrade from them. That's a fact.

 

Frankly, you're nuts that he'd be in the XFL. You're right that he wouldn't look as good as he does now, but the XFL? Nobody in this thread is trying to say he's amazing. They've quoted a survey of NFL players that had him as amazing, but that's not what folks in this thread have said. Good, yes, and I think they all think he's a ton better than Fields right now. And there are very good reasons they're saying that.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Captain Hindsight]

24 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

So they didn't try to get Deshaun Watson before that? You guys have short memories

So the Bears should try to trade for Watson?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

54 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yep.  It was similar to Tyrod Taylor.  Taylor either threw a fly route or hitch/curl route and avoided the middle of the field (no pun intended) where there was traffic and had to fit the ball into windows.

 

Yep - Fields is bigger and more athletic than Taylor too.  However Fields also gets sacked more than Tyrod (who when starting was in that 8-10% sack rate while fields is in the 12-15% range).  Fields turns the ball over more: 28 fumbles in 2 years vs 17 for Tyrod in 3 years at buffalo, and an INT% of around 3.5% vs Taylors 1.5%.  For context - allen threw 3 int's in week 1 and has only thrown 78 passes so far in 2023.. and his INT% IS 3.8%.  So you're getting 2 TOs a game with half the TDs of an Allen.  

 

So they function similarly in what they offer from a passer from a strengths perspective, and there is a more dynamic running threat - but he's also more likely to get sacked, fumble, turn the ball over than a Tyrod.  

[dpberr]

He was drafted way too high.  He's 75% great athlete, 25% legit QB.  Fields would have benefited from sitting the entire 2021 year, learning the game.  I know Dalton got injured, but they should have signed a FA and given Fields time to learn the game.  

 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

13 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Wrong. Chicago had a franchise QB.  Sid Luckman. In 1949. 😆  He promptly retired in his prime. 

Anyway,  on that note... You know what's amazing? In ALL of Bears history, they have never had a 30 TD season QB! 

 

Geno Smiff slung 31 last year!!

 

Maybe playing 17 games a year now will help!😏 

Imagine your best QB ever being Jay Cutler 😅 I wanted to say McMahon, but I just looked up his stats and they are freakin atrocious even for that time period. 

[Rico]

7 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Imagine your best QB ever being Jay Cutler 😅 I wanted to say McMahon, but I just looked up his stats and they are freakin atrocious even for that time period. 

McMahon when healthy > Jay friggen Cutler. Stats are for losers (like Jay Cutler).