Update: All -22 stuff Joe Marino Locked on Bills, Now Cover 1 w/ play breakdowns

[Old Coot]

For those  who blame Dorsey's playcalling I urge you to look at the Cover 1 breakdown of key pass plays in the Jets game. The route combos are sound. Now we don't know the reads (long to short; short to long; key on the DB being attacked) but again the concepts are sound and there were open guys that Josh missed.  It seems to be a problem of execution and not playcalling.

 

Since he began playing QB I've noticed that Josh holds onto the ball longer than most QBs. Someone on the board said that Daboll put Josh in the shotgun because it gives Josh a better view of the field so it may be that Josh takes longer to process what he sees. From the Cover 1 breakdown it seems that Josh is better on plays when the concept is to high-low a CB so that no matter what the DB does he's wrong. Those are crisp bang-bang reads (if the DB takes the deeper WR you hit the underneath guy; if he takes the shallower guy you hit the deeper guy).

 

Every time Josh breaks the pocket the route structure and timing is ruined. It becomes backyard ball.

[Joe Ferguson]

Like one of the posters said here. He's doing this hero ball crap to impress his new girlfriend or the girlfriend told Josh to be hero ball Josh. What other reason could it be? 

[Beck Water]

On 9/12/2023 at 9:45 PM, Simon said:

 

I thought it was mostly a lane issue.

 

I'm not sure what's meant by this?

[billieve420]

33 minutes ago, Old Coot said:

For those  who blame Dorsey's playcalling I urge you to look at the Cover 1 breakdown of key pass plays in the Jets game. The route combos are sound. Now we don't know the reads (long to short; short to long; key on the DB being attacked) but again the concepts are sound and there were open guys that Josh missed.  It seems to be a problem of execution and not playcalling.

 

Since he began playing QB I've noticed that Josh holds onto the ball longer than most QBs. Someone on the board said that Daboll put Josh in the shotgun because it gives Josh a better view of the field so it may be that Josh takes longer to process what he sees. From the Cover 1 breakdown it seems that Josh is better on plays when the concept is to high-low a CB so that no matter what the DB does he's wrong. Those are crisp bang-bang reads (if the DB takes the deeper WR you hit the underneath guy; if he takes the shallower guy you hit the deeper guy).

 

Every time Josh breaks the pocket the route structure and timing is ruined. It becomes backyard ball.

Seems to me Allen has too much leeway to do whatever he wants. When Dorsey sees things start to unravel should be telling Josh on the headset what he wants while giving him the play call and reel his QB back in.

[PBF81]

27 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I'll hang up and listen 😃  Seriously, I like to hear everyones honest takes. I certainly give mine.

 

OK, here ya go, buckle up!  LOL  

 

Alright, but this is going to be about as popular here as a tranny drag queen at a southern baptist potluck dinner. It's going to get red-x'd by a bunch of posters, I already know who some of them are. LOL

Simply put, it seems that Allen isn't being properly coached. Do I say that because I know something about how he's being coached? No. I'm purely going by circumstantial evidence, such as what I laid out above about the original hiring of Daboll followed by the promotion of Dorsey, and Allen's play, which we're all familiar with.  Again, what in either Daboll's or Dorsey's dossier qualifies them to be instructing Allen to tweak his game to expert levels? The short answer, for anyone that's honest, is nothing.

That means that anything that either did bring would be contingent upon what they've learned or done while he and they have been here.  But what's the evidence for that?  It would also seem that three seasons in, Allen simply got more comfortable and learned things by himself for the most part.  If it truly was coaching, then there wouldn't be a 10+% increase in Compl. %, and then again 50% Passing Yardage increase, and a near doubling of Passing TDs, and 20+ point increase in rating in a single season.  Coaching would be a more gradual increase.  That was largely Allen's comfort zone improvement in his third season, which is noted for QBs taking their games to another level.

It also seems illogical that Dorsey after being able to do little with Newton, all of a sudden turned Allen into what he is.  But let's say for the sake of argument that Dorsey was in fact responsible for Allen's massive leap from 2019 to 2020.  That would be incredibly impressive and we would then argue that it was masterful.  It would put Dorsey in the genius category. But then how come Allen hasn't continued to improve and in fact perhaps is even backtracking/regression somewhat, or at absolute minimum the demonstrated seeming inability to do what far less talented QBs have done, namely take advantage of what the opposing defenses give them, which even the inexperienced Wilson did on MNF, and the high-percentage passes.

The argument is that Allen's not listening to Dorsey and doing his own thing, but to that I would argue that's what got him to the level he is to begin with, not Dorsey, but then why all of a sudden would he stop listening to Dorsey if Dorsey was truly responsible for a 10+ point bump in Compl.%, nearly double the TDs, 1,500 more yards, and a 22 point bump in rating?  Only a fool would stop listening to advice at that point, and we know that Allen isn't a great fool, so clearly he can't choose the wine in front of him. ... oh, ... I digress.
 

I'm not a big fan of assigning success to people that have exceptional circumstances that pave the way for it, and amidst a dearth of any known reasons for it otherwise.  But that’s kind of what we’re expected to believe here, in Buffalo for the time being.

At the end of the day, IMO Allen isn't getting proper coaching for multiple reasons.  One, McD's more of a players coach and soft when it comes to discipline and that type of thing.  I also don't think Allen got it with Daboll either for similar reasons per above.  As to Dorsey, he and Allen seem to be buddies more than they seem to be coach and player, which wouldn't be a healthy or proper relationship if that's true, and further establishes McD's status as a players coach, and the Dorsey/Allen relationship by implication.

On a side note, Levy was a players coach as well, and that's why we couldn't win a Super Bowl, because we went up against much better tacticians, strategists, and disciplinarians.  Who thinks that Jimmy Johnson or Parcells, or even Gibbs for that matter would have put up with Kelly et al. partying the night before the game, etc. Had we had any of those three as our coach, I’m confident we’d have two Lombardis now.  All three were notably better coaches than Levy, who only excelled here in Buffalo with an all-star roster, a roster that Polian called “special” and "rare."

 

Anyway, now we get into why coaches such as Daboll and Dorsey were/are in the role.  It’s important to remember that McD was hired before anyone. There’s plenty of reason to strongly suspect that McD is a control-freak and wants ultimate control of all aspects of the team.  Who knows, but the smart money says that there was some discussion of that between McD and Pegula upon his hire.  Otherwise, why would Pegula have put the cart before the horse and hired a coach before he hired a GM, which is almost unheard of.  I can’t think of another instance in the modern NFL that that’s happened, but even if it has, it’s incredibly rare at best.

 

When we hired the coach, McD, first, I told everyone at that time to get ready and that the GM that he selects would come from Carolina also.  Was that because I thought or that the best candidate was in fact at Carolina at the time?  Hardly.  Quite the opposite in fact, the odds of that were remote.  It’s common sense that McD wasn’t about to hire someone that wouldn’t owe him and therefore be in a position to fire him if things didn’t go well after three seasons.  So he hired Beane, who IMO would never fire McD unless directed to do so by Pegula.  

 

That set the tone for the rest.  

 

Same for his coordinator hires. Frasier had a failed stint as a Head Coach in Minnesota where his defenses got progressively worse and where his offense never crossed the average mark. In his last season there it was 32nd in Scoring and 31st in Yardage.  He ran it into the ground there.

 

After that he went to Tampa as a DC again where his defense was worse than both his predecessor after arriving, as well as his successor upon leaving.  

 

What are the odds that McD thought that there was any chance that Frazier would take his place?  I’d say pretty close to zero.  Here in Buffalo there’s still questioning as to whether the D during Frazier’s tenure was more McD’s being run by Frazier, or more Frazier’s.  I’ve been wondering if McD didn’t take Frazier’s responsibilities from him because he was afraid that Pegula might fire him and promote Frazier. We’ll never know.

 

In the final analysis, Allen’s progress is being held up inadequate coaching.  How we define inadequate can be debated.

 

The other thing that is entirely possible is that Dorsey, who’s never distinguished himself in any particular way coaching in the NFL, sees Allen as his ticket to perhaps a head coaching job, but more importantly, to a positive projection of himself as a coach to the extent that he’ll be recognized as being great in that way.

 

As such, at times it seems, based upon Allen’s play, if Dorsey is really affecting it, that Dorsey is living vicariously through Allen in an attempt to re-live his collegiate greatness at QB, except on the coaching side, and he was in fact great as a QB at Miami.  We know that he's never even approached being above-average until Allen otherwise.  But that would be a mistake.

 

And again, people say hooey, that’s a lump of baloney, well then fine, but then that must mean that Dorsey isn’t getting through to Allen either, because Allen’s trying to play QB as if he’s in college, as the man among boys that he was, and throwing the ball as if our players are that much superior to the opposing defensive players.  As if he's playing for Alabama five seasons ago and prior, ... or Miami in its collegiate heyday.  Just sayin'.  

 

So that’s how I see it.  If Dorsey is getting through to Allen, then it’s poor instruction.

 

If he isn’t getting through to Allen, then perhaps we need an OC that can.  In fact, we may even need a new Head Coach as I believe is necessary if we want to get the most out of Allen.  I've got my eye on Press Taylor in Jax, although IMO, and unfortunately, the odds of McD getting canned after this season, even with a wild-card spot and another divisional (or wild-card) round loss in the playoffs, is remote.  

 

Allen performed better in some respects under Daboll as OC, but that’s not to say that it was because of Daboll.  

 

McD doesn’t have any answers/solutions to the Allen question, otherwise he’d step in. But the catch-22 is that he’ll never hire someone that can really turn Allen into the QB that we’re all hoping he’ll be.

 

Why not?

 

Think about it. McD hires an OC that comes in and takes Allen to the next level.  What happens next?

 

Right, that person becomes the next head coach because offense is more important than defense in today’s NFL, and before the team would lose him to a head coaching position elsewhere, Pegula would step in and see to it to fire McD and promote that OC.

 

That’s my take and has been for a while now.

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

So the argument goes from "McDermott is along for the ride we win because of Josh" 

 

To

 

"Why is Josh Allen not an all world Quarterback at the moment, it must be McDermott's fault"

 

Some people have already decided their answer and will bend every single piece of evidence to fit the narrative. 

 

Joe Marino is spot on. Monday was on Josh Allen. Nobody else.

[Mango]

22 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Not even a week ago we were all in a hizzy because some hack said josh wasn't studying and didn't put in the time (paraphrasing). Now look at us. Maybe just maybe when others aren't wearing rose colored glasses they see things we don't. Not saying the comment on josh was exactly correct (how are we to really know and understand what Josh does) 

That wasn’t a hack, that was me…well I’m kind of a hack, but all I do is post on this message board. 

[Mango]

22 hours ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

The 49ers are already a juggernaut right now without josh. I mention it all the time on this board because I’m not over the CMC trade and beane not getting him. That said. Shanahan doesn’t really want a guy like Josh. Sure he’s a fun toy but he would drive KS nuts. He wants a robot back there to execute his offense, that’s not josh. Josh is best off script. KS draws up the best scripts in the league. He’s unmatched. I get your point though. 

Shanahan is likely the best OC in the league right now, at worst second behind Reid. If Shanahan would hate working with a guy, maybe Kyle isn’t the problem. 
 

I don’t agree with you, I think Shanahan would welcome Josh with open arms. 

[Mango]

20 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Pretty accurate analysis.

 

 

I actually hate this take. I’d rather Josh be a little too cocky and bet on his eyes by not watching enough film. Or not putting enough care in his diet. 
 

There is something about the idea that Josh played the way he did because he “got bored of taking what the defense was giving him” that infuriates me to no end. 
 

Josh Allen was so so bad that he’s the topic of conversation for every media outlet this week. People comparing him to Carson Wentz.
 

And he played that way because he was bored?! I’ll take a guy who is missing a piece here or there. Or needs to get better at skill A or B. But to play like crap because you got bored? If that’s the case he’s done in this league forever and he’s entered the realm of uncoachability. That’s insane myopic, selfish, and narcissistic in a way that makes you a consistent danger to your teams. 
 

Edit: I am not saying this is the case. I vehemently disagree with this. But also, as a team and a fan base we need this not to be the case. To me this is absolutely worst cash scenario. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Mango

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Mango said:

Shanahan is likely the best OC in the league right now, at worst second behind Reid. If Shanahan would hate working with a guy, maybe Kyle isn’t the problem. 
 

I don’t agree with you, I think Shanahan would welcome Josh with open arms. 

 

I think I agree with @BeavercreekBillsFan here - Kyle likes guys who run his plays. Because he is the best play designer in football. I don't think he is as good as a playcaller as Reid (and there are probably a few others you could throw in that mix as playcallers - Pederson, McVay actually even Josh McDaniels) but as a play designer, he is unparalleled IMO. Shanahan beats teams on the whiteboard with the Xs and Os. His big successes in his career have come with Matt Schaub, Matt Ryan, Jimmy G and Brock Purdy. Guys who are very much system Quarterbacks who run the play as it is designed. Matt Ryan was a very good system Quarterback and probably was a top 6 or 7 guy in the league at the time. So I'm not saying he wants average QBs but he wants guys who do not ad-lib too much. He wants you to run the play he designed. 

 

Maybe he could coach Josh into that guy, I'm not convinced though. 

[The Wiz]

45 minutes ago, Mango said:

I actually hate this take. I’d rather Josh be a little too cocky and bet on his eyes by not watching enough film. Or not putting enough care in his diet. 
 

There is something about the idea that Josh played the way he did because he “got bored of taking what the defense was giving him” that infuriates me to no end. 
 

Josh Allen was so so bad that he’s the topic of conversation for every media outlet this week. People comparing him to Carson Wentz.
 

And he played that way because he was bored?! I’ll take a guy who is missing a piece here or there. Or needs to get better at skill A or B. But to play like crap because you got bored? If that’s the case he’s done in this league forever and he’s entered the realm of uncoachability. That’s insane myopic, selfish, and narcissistic in a way that makes you a consistent danger to your teams. 

I don't disagree with anything you said at all but when you see that there were plays underneath on the all-22 that he didn't take, you need to ask why he didn't take the easy play.

 

I'm not asking him to turn into captain checkdown and throw a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 20 but when he's throwing bombs on 2nd and 10 with guys open 4-5 yards in front of him, it's a question that needs to be asked why he's not taking those.

Edited September 14, 2023 by The Wiz

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

So the argument goes from "McDermott is along for the ride we win because of Josh" 

 

To

 

"Why is Josh Allen not an all world Quarterback at the moment, it must be McDermott's fault"

 

Some people have already decided their answer and will bend every single piece of evidence to fit the narrative. 

 

Joe Marino is spot on. Monday was on Josh Allen. Nobody else.

1 million percent.

 

 

[White Linen]

"It wasn't Dorsey " is actually hilarious. 

[teef]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

1 million percent.

 

 

1 million and one percent.  

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

There is something about the idea that Josh played the way he did because he “got bored of taking what the defense was giving him” that infuriates me to no end. 

it’s more like “course management” in golf. Good golfers can cut the corner on a dog leg, but the smart ones lay-up. It is sometimes mentally hard to lay-up though when you know you can bomb a 300 yard drive.

 

I think that is the problem with Josh. The ironic thing is I bet he has these same issues when he plays golf.

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, teef said:

1 million and one percent.  

 

Yeah but I bet you do 8 minute abs.  I do 7 minute abs.

[teef]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah but I bet you do 8 minute abs.  I do 7 minute abs.

i had a 6 pack surgically implanted.  

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I actually hate this take. I’d rather Josh be a little too cocky and bet on his eyes by not watching enough film. Or not putting enough care in his diet. 
 

There is something about the idea that Josh played the way he did because he “got bored of taking what the defense was giving him” that infuriates me to no end. 
 

Josh Allen was so so bad that he’s the topic of conversation for every media outlet this week. People comparing him to Carson Wentz.
 

And he played that way because he was bored?! I’ll take a guy who is missing a piece here or there. Or needs to get better at skill A or B. But to play like crap because you got bored? If that’s the case he’s done in this league forever and he’s entered the realm of uncoachability. That’s insane myopic, selfish, and narcissistic in a way that makes you a consistent danger to your teams. 
 

Edit: I am not saying this is the case. I vehemently disagree with this. But also, as a team and a fan base we need this not to be the case. To me this is absolutely worst cash scenario. 

He didn't look bored to me. A bored QB shouldn't be dancing around and bailing from the pocket. He wasn't bored at all. He was panicked, confused, amped up, and nervous.

 

Anyone who says he was bored in that game simply didn't watch him. He was frenetic all game long. Even on his awesome TD throw he was like a fox being chased by a bunch of hound dogs. He wasn't comfortable all night.

[Avisan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

So the argument goes from "McDermott is along for the ride we win because of Josh" 

 

To

 

"Why is Josh Allen not an all world Quarterback at the moment, it must be McDermott's fault"

 

Some people have already decided their answer and will bend every single piece of evidence to fit the narrative. 

 

Joe Marino is spot on. Monday was on Josh Allen. Nobody else.

There's also NO evidence that McDermott is a "soft, player's coach" that doesn't discipline players, and frankly a lot of evidence to the contrary.

 

The narratives people cling to despite making up every piece of evidence in their own heads are fascinating.

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think I agree with @BeavercreekBillsFan here - Kyle likes guys who run his plays. Because he is the best play designer in football. I don't think he is as good as a playcaller as Reid (and there are probably a few others you could throw in that mix as playcallers - Pederson, McVay actually even Josh McDaniels) but as a play designer, he is unparalleled IMO. Shanahan beats teams on the whiteboard with the Xs and Os. His big successes in his career have come with Matt Schaub, Matt Ryan, Jimmy G and Brock Purdy. Guys who are very much system Quarterbacks who run the play as it is designed. Matt Ryan was a very good system Quarterback and probably was a top 6 or 7 guy in the league at the time. So I'm not saying he wants average QBs but he wants guys who do not ad-lib too much. He wants you to run the play he designed. 

 

Maybe he could coach Josh into that guy, I'm not convinced though. 

Thanks this is what I was alluding to. Shanahan is the best offensive mind in the league and I’m not sure it’s that close. Reid is a great play caller but as far as designing plays, KS is at another level. People laughed when I said it’s over for the rest of the league now that he has CMC but I meant it. They haven’t lost since the trade happened (unless you can’t the game where they played without an QB). And now he’s had a whole offseason to design stuff up with CMC and these weapons. It really is hard to imagine them not winning it this year barring injury. He damn near won it with Jimmy G and Matt Ryan, and Purdy gives them something a little extra. The proof is there. If you run his plays, you’re going to win. Watch their games. Please just sit and watch. There are guys open every damn time. WIDE OPEN. With space to run too. I wish Dorsey would just steal like 3 or 4 of his plays to get someone some separation. 
 

I love josh but he doesn’t fit in the KS system where you are asked to pick the open target from like 3 wide open choices and then dump it to them and let them YAC the defense to death. The minute josh goes off script, KS would pull his hair out. Unless you simply think josh is going to change his ways all of a sudden. 

[Royale with Cheese]

26 minutes ago, teef said:

i had a 6 pack surgically implanted.  

 

Instead of paying for surgery to get abs, you could have just exclusively made your diet Korean food and you would had the same result.

[colin]

josh was just unprepared and impatient.  immature is the best description i've seen of him.  he was told what to do, he knew what he had been doing was failing, but, once the rubber hit the road, he did the thing that he did before and not what he was told to do.

 

It's pretty clear at this point that Josh is not good at reading defenses.  the safety picking him off 3x means he basically didn't see the guy 3 times.  part of reading a d is moving one's eyes away from the disadvantage match up towards the advantage match up.  Josh sees a match up he wants to work (deep ball, etc) and stares and process it looking for a way to make it work.  the tight ends running open, even diggs open shorter on the one pick, he simply doesn't move towards them enough.

 

I think he (perhaps subconsciously) just decided to play that way after the drive we scored a FG on early (where it was 4 and 2 and mcdermot kicked, which i don't have a beef with).  he threw the ball a tad late to the rb who ran a long way on third and long but ended up just short.  IMO this and a couple other plays like that lead josh to saying "ok, i tried the game plan on 3 or 4 snaps, and it was close but didn't get there, so now im justified in just doing my own thing" in his head.

 

there is something wrong w our play design/what josh is reading tho because we were so so bad on 1st down.  1st down is max advantage for the O, but either the jets baited us like masters (lol) into getting sacked and making mistakes, or we just aren't doing something right as a team there.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

Thanks this is what I was alluding to. Shanahan is the best offensive mind in the league and I’m not sure it’s that close. Reid is a great play caller but as far as designing plays, KS is at another level. People laughed when I said it’s over for the rest of the league now that he has CMC but I meant it. They haven’t lost since the trade happened (unless you can’t the game where they played without an QB). And now he’s had a whole offseason to design stuff up with CMC and these weapons. It really is hard to imagine them not winning it this year barring injury. He damn near won it with Jimmy G and Matt Ryan, and Purdy gives them something a little extra. The proof is there. If you run his plays, you’re going to win. Watch their games. Please just sit and watch. There are guys open every damn time. WIDE OPEN. With space to run too. I wish Dorsey would just steal like 3 or 4 of his plays to get someone some separation. 
 

I love josh but he doesn’t fit in the KS system where you are asked to pick the open target from like 3 wide open choices and then dump it to them and let them YAC the defense to death. The minute josh goes off script, KS would pull his hair out. Unless you simply think josh is going to change his ways all of a sudden. 

 

Yea he just needs to let someone else call the plays in the 4th Quarter of the Superbowl. 

[White Linen]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

Joe Marino is spot on. Monday was on Josh Allen. Nobody else.

 

C'mon Gunner.  You know better or should. 

[teef]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Instead of paying for surgery to get abs, you could have just exclusively made your diet Korean food and you would had the same result.

chewing sounds like work.

[ddaryl]

4 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I don't disagree with anything you said at all but when you see that there were plays underneath on the all-22 that he didn't take, you need to ask why he didn't take the easy play.

 

I'm not asking him to turn into captain checkdown and throw a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 20 but when he's throwing bombs on 2nd and 10 with guys open 4-5 yards in front of him, it's a question that needs to be asked why he's not taking those.

Crazy thing this is exactly the flaws we saw last year as teams find ways to defend JA. A bunch of us were screaming to just move the chains and stop with the hero ball. Against the Jets he was exactly the QB he was at the ending of last year. For JA to be great and to stay on a HoF trajectory he has to learn the underneath game with consistency.

How many games have we've seen where the BIlls come out early on offense trying to establish a short passing game only to see it quickly abandoned, and Josh revert back to hero ball. Thats what I just don't get from Josh's mental makeup.... He knows this by now but reverts.

Edited September 14, 2023 by ddaryl

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

chewing sounds like work.

 

In 2 weeks!!

 

Are you going to partake?

 

https://nationaldaycalendar.com/national-chewing-gum-day-september-30/

 

NATIONAL CHEWING GUM DAY | SEPTEMBER 30

National Chewing Gum Day exercises our jaws on September 30th. Pop a bubble or freshen your breath with your favorite piece of chewing gum.

#ChewingGumDay

Humans have used chewing gum for over 5,000 years. They may have chewed it for enjoyment, to stave off hunger, or to freshen their breath much like we do today. The sources used to make gum resulted in minty and sweet chewable globs of wax or sap resin that fulfilled the human urge to gnaw. They were unlikely to produce glossy, pink bubbles worthy of jealous pokes from siblings. However, waking up with it stuck in your hair was still a possibility.  

[teef]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

In 2 weeks!!

 

Are you going to partake?

 

https://nationaldaycalendar.com/national-chewing-gum-day-september-30/

 

NATIONAL CHEWING GUM DAY | SEPTEMBER 30

National Chewing Gum Day exercises our jaws on September 30th. Pop a bubble or freshen your breath with your favorite piece of chewing gum.

#ChewingGumDay

Humans have used chewing gum for over 5,000 years. They may have chewed it for enjoyment, to stave off hunger, or to freshen their breath much like we do today. The sources used to make gum resulted in minty and sweet chewable globs of wax or sap resin that fulfilled the human urge to gnaw. They were unlikely to produce glossy, pink bubbles worthy of jealous pokes from siblings. However, waking up with it stuck in your hair was still a possibility.  

chewing gum in not good for your tmj.  no way.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, ddaryl said:

Crazy thing this is exactly the flaws we have saw last year as teams find ways to defend JA. A bunch of us were screaming to just move the chains and stop with the hero ball. Against the Jets he was exactly the QB he was at the ending of last year. For JA to be great and to stay on a HoF trajectory he has to learn the underneath game with consistency.

How many games have we've seen where the BIlls come out early on offense trying to establish a short passing game only to see it quickly abandoned, and Josh revert back to hero ball. Thats what I just don't get from Josh's mental makeup.... He knows this by now but reverts.

 

The example of this was the INT to Davis.  3rd and 2.  Two open WR's underneath to easily pick up the 2 yards to move the chains...forces it into Davis 12 yards down the field.  So irritating. 

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think I agree with @BeavercreekBillsFan here - Kyle likes guys who run his plays. Because he is the best play designer in football. I don't think he is as good as a playcaller as Reid (and there are probably a few others you could throw in that mix as playcallers - Pederson, McVay actually even Josh McDaniels) but as a play designer, he is unparalleled IMO. Shanahan beats teams on the whiteboard with the Xs and Os. His big successes in his career have come with Matt Schaub, Matt Ryan, Jimmy G and Brock Purdy. Guys who are very much system Quarterbacks who run the play as it is designed. Matt Ryan was a very good system Quarterback and probably was a top 6 or 7 guy in the league at the time. So I'm not saying he wants average QBs but he wants guys who do not ad-lib too much. He wants you to run the play he designed. 

 

Maybe he could coach Josh into that guy, I'm not convinced though. 

Josh would never be that guy

[DrDawkinstein]

41 minutes ago, MJS said:

He didn't look bored to me. A bored QB shouldn't be dancing around and bailing from the pocket. He wasn't bored at all. He was panicked, confused, amped up, and nervous.

 

Anyone who says he was bored in that game simply didn't watch him. He was frenetic all game long. Even on his awesome TD throw he was like a fox being chased by a bunch of hound dogs. He wasn't comfortable all night.

 

"Bored" may not be the exact right word, but I get what that guy was saying.

 

Frenetic, uncomfortable, anxious, all play into the same vibe that analyst was trying to get across.

 

He got impatient ("bored") with just 1st downs. He wanted a touchdown and he wanted it immediately. So he took horrible deep shots instead of continuing to check it down and move the chains.

 

It's like he's back there going "Ok, we picked up two 1st downs in a row. That earns me a shot to go deep and get this over with"

 

Bro, just keep picking up 1st down until you're in the red zone!

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

I don't disagree with anything you said at all but when you see that there were plays underneath on the all-22 that he didn't take, you need to ask why he didn't take the easy play.

 

I'm not asking him to turn into captain checkdown and throw a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 20 but when he's throwing bombs on 2nd and 10 with guys open 4-5 yards in front of him, it's a question that needs to be asked why he's not taking those.

He's not taking them because it's who he is. He knows he can and had made those throws and plays in the past and thinks he can do it again. He is not the let's live to play another down guy and if it is a close game he is going to press and press to score or get the first down in 3rd and long. Josh's tendency is to get it all at once...

[Royale with Cheese]

25 minutes ago, teef said:

i ***** just fine.

 

It can always get better.

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

48 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

He's not taking them because it's who he is. He knows he can and had made those throws and plays in the past and thinks he can do it again. He is not the let's live to play another down guy and if it is a close game he is going to press and press to score or get the first down in 3rd and long. Josh's tendency is to get it all at once...

True. I think if the organization hadn’t failed him and had built him an offensive line and some YAC weapons, he’d be more likely to settle down and take those easier throws. But when you’re dumping it to guys like James cook and Dawson Knox instead of guys like CMC, it’s harder to trust they’re going to help you out. 
 

[MJS]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

"Bored" may not be the exact right word, but I get what that guy was saying.

 

Frenetic, uncomfortable, anxious, all play into the same vibe that analyst was trying to get across.

 

He got impatient ("bored") with just 1st downs. He wanted a touchdown and he wanted it immediately. So he took horrible deep shots instead of continuing to check it down and move the chains.

 

It's like he's back there going "Ok, we picked up two 1st downs in a row. That earns me a shot to go deep and get this over with"

 

Bro, just keep picking up 1st down until you're in the red zone!

I don't think that is necessarily the case. I don't think he was thinking like that. I think Allen has a problem with compounding his mistakes in a game and not moving on from them. I don't think it is because he feels like he deserves or earns to take a deep shot, but more like he feels he needs to overcome and erase mistakes and he gets anxious when the offense is struggling to move the ball, and then compounds it with another mistake.

 

I also think he stops reading the defense and goes on instinct when he is stressed. You have to be calm and calculated to read a defense. He is reacting, not reading or diagnosing. He isn’t looking for short passes because his instincts don't take him there. He gets blinders and doesn't see those anymore.

 

The remedy is to calm down and use his head. He needs to find a way to take a deep breath and reset. It's especially hard when he is facing a really sound, aggressive defense that is trying to pummel him. But he makes the big bucks, so he needs to figure it out.

 

And he has in the past, so there is no reason to think he won't in the future.

[Goin Breakdown]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

That wasn’t a hack, that was me…well I’m kind of a hack, but all I do is post on this message board. 

Lol nah. It was a sports writer. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

59 minutes ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

True. I think if the organization hadn’t failed him and had built him an offensive line and some YAC weapons, he’d be more likely to settle down and take those easier throws. But when you’re dumping it to guys like James cook and Dawson Knox instead of guys like CMC, it’s harder to trust they’re going to help you out. 
 

Thats not it at all, we have talent...we have had talent. Josh just refuses to be patient and thats it in an nut shell. This isn't on Beane, McDermott etc its on Josh. HE has to make the conscious decision to take the 10-13 play drives like Patrick Mahomes admitted he needed to do as well years ago.

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

So the argument goes from "McDermott is along for the ride we win because of Josh" 

 

To

 

"Why is Josh Allen not an all world Quarterback at the moment, it must be McDermott's fault"

 

Some people have already decided their answer and will bend every single piece of evidence to fit the narrative. 

 

Joe Marino is spot on. Monday was on Josh Allen. Nobody else.

 

One could argue that when Josh plays well the McD apologists give McD the credit, right.  Short answer, yes.  

 

We can't have it both ways.  

 

In this particular instance absolutely no one is saying that it's the coaches fault.  Allen's putting it on himself.  So isn't the implication that much of the rest is on him as well, particularly since the reasons for his shortcomings are pretty much what's going on now?  

 

To the extent that the coach(es) cannot control it is the extent to which it involves coaching, but that then begs other questions.  

 

You're clearly a McD apologist.  It's expected that you have a bias that way, which is fine, but it needs to be acknowledged.  

 

Saying that "some people have already decided their answer and will bend every single piece of evidence to fit the narrative." may be correct, but it's nowhere more true than on the McD apologist side of the tracks.  

 

So when Allen does correct it, as I suspect he will, let's not give Dorsey or McD the credit for it.  Right?  

 

 

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

16 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Thats not it at all, we have talent...we have had talent. Josh just refuses to be patient and thats it in an nut shell. This isn't on Beane, McDermott etc its on Josh. HE has to make the conscious decision to take the 10-13 play drives like Patrick Mahomes admitted he needed to do as well years ago.

Easy to say when you’re dumping it to tyreek and kelce with a good o line to get YAC and make life easy. When’s the last time josh could dump it off and you were confident they could break off a big run? I’ll wait. 
 

Josh is always throwing into airtight windows because our receivers suck and they get dropped immediately 

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

There is something about the idea that Josh played the way he did because he “got bored of taking what the defense was giving him” that infuriates me to no end. 
 

Josh Allen was so so bad that he’s the topic of conversation for every media outlet this week. People comparing him to Carson Wentz.
 

And he played that way because he was bored?! I’ll take a guy who is missing a piece here or there. Or needs to get better at skill A or B. But to play like crap because you got bored? If that’s the case he’s done in this league forever and he’s entered the realm of uncoachability. That’s insane myopic, selfish, and narcissistic in a way that makes you a consistent danger to your teams. 
 

Edit: I am not saying this is the case. I vehemently disagree with this. But also, as a team and a fan base we need this not to be the case. To me this is absolutely worst cash scenario. 

 

One could argue that that has coaching, or lack of good coaching, fingerprints all over it though.  

 

This team goes as Allen goes and has, particularly in the playoffs where if he doesn't come out with his A-game we have a very small chance of winning.  

 

From where many see this, McD has very little control over Allen.  Fortunately for him Allen is Allen.  

 

Allen will bounce back this week against a defense on the other end of the rankings spectrum.  Then everyone will say he worked it out.  

 

 

2 hours ago, Avisan said:

There's also NO evidence that McDermott is a "soft, player's coach" that doesn't discipline players, and frankly a lot of evidence to the contrary.

 

The narratives people cling to despite making up every piece of evidence in their own heads are fascinating.

 

Where's this "lot of evidence" that McD discipline's players, other than for "being rookies," and holds them accountable?