Do the Bills need a " Quarterback Whisperer?"

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

And this adds to the coaching decisions at OP. Everywhere he looks, Josh is being shredded. I don't think he's the kind to deal with bad press well. I am seriously concerned about Sunday because of this, the added pressure and everyone lining up to have a pop, what it's going to do to him.

 

The coaches will be wanting to understandably lay into him about yesterday as well, but is that the right response considering the outside noise? What is the correct reaction? They have to get it right, otherwise the Bills could lose to the Raiders and the season, possibly even Josh himself, will be at risk of spiralling.

 

Am I being melodramatic? I don't think so. A lot of us have been saying the coaching team is part of the problem, as they don't know how to manage him. If this is an accurate assessment, then they may not react adequately to the issue.

they will give him the simmer down speech. He will hopefully beat up a team nowhere near as good. We will argue over whether he stepped up or the competition stepped down. 
 

let’s not be too over the top. We are likely 2-1 playing Miami for the lead in the division come week 4

[Success]

12 minutes ago, SCBills said:

He is getting ROCKED in the media today. 
 

And it’s not criticism of his ability .. it’s questioning his focus and desire.  Everyone acknowledges he’s as talented, maybe more talented, than anyone in the league … but the overwhelming commentary today is an annoyed refrain of “he doesn’t get it” and that’s a really wild narrative to see everywhere about a consensus elite QB. 
 

…it’s also accurate. 
 

 

I give you credit for tuning into the media today.

 

I'm not saying they're "wrong" - but all they do are hot takes anymore.  Josh had an absolutely terrible game last night. Burrow was worse over the weekend.  Mahomes wasn't exactly stellar.  

 

But one of those guys will probably be in the SB.  Allen cost us the game yesterday, but he'll probably be the reason we win the next (insert multiple games here)..

 

[billsbackto81]

14 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I don’t know that I’ve ever seen so much, almost universal, annoyance/frustration at a player before.  
 

It’s as if the entire football world knows how great Josh Allen can be and are completely disgusted that he won’t grow up and stop with the bs. 
 

 

This whole off season was one big effort to make Josh more efficient and less reckless. From the draft, to the players acquired, to the offensive scheme. To watch that performance was disheartening to say the least. We all want him to stop with the bone headed decisions and stop being a turnover machine.

 

Last night did nothing to change that narrative. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

 

I'm more concerned about how the coaches react. I imagine, a few years ago, it was the moment Daboll sat him down, showed him the great plays he did and reminded him he can do it to build his confidence back up. Is this what needs to be done now? Or will it just encourage him to keep pushing heroball?

I’d agree. Some of this is up to the coaches. It’s what they’re here to do. 

[Johnnycage46]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Bigger than he was ? I mean he played poorly but it wasn’t exactly a SuperBowl or AFCCG . 

 

That's what is scary about it.

[HurlyBurly51]

Wondering at what point they start questioning what affect getting paid has had on him.  Some guys mail it in, are unfocused and/or unmotivated after getting that huge payday. 

[BillzFreak]

2 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

And this adds to the coaching decisions at OP. Everywhere he looks, Josh is being shredded. I don't think he's the kind to deal with bad press well. I am seriously concerned about Sunday because of this, the added pressure and everyone lining up to have a pop, what it's going to do to him.

 

The coaches will be wanting to understandably lay into him about yesterday as well, but is that the right response considering the outside noise? What is the correct reaction? They have to get it right, otherwise the Bills could lose to the Raiders and the season, possibly even Josh himself, will be at risk of spiralling.

 

Am I being melodramatic? I don't think so. A lot of us have been saying the coaching team is part of the problem, as they don't know how to manage him. If this is an accurate assessment, then they may not react adequately to the issue.

No you don't surger coat it for him, you be honest and tell him it's unacceptable for him to play like that. He is an adult and he gets paid to play this game. It takes work, work and more work to make it to the NFL and even more work to stay in the NFL. So either he crumbles under that pressure to fix it or he works even harder to be better. I'm sorry I love Josh being the Qb for this team and will root for success every time he is out there, but it's on him to figure it out. Coaches can only do so much but eventually that whistle blows and players have to make the plays.

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Very fair point.  
 

That guy out there last night looked completely lost. 
 

Everyone responds to different coaching.  Some need to be criticized and some need to be lifted up.  
 

I don’t know how he is, but whatever we’ve been doing post-Daboll isn’t working.  
 

However, as you point out, the staff needs to factor in that Josh wasn’t just criticized today … he’s being challenged to grow up from every corner of football media.  
 

Thats very specific and unique criticism for someone who’s ascended to where he is. 

completely lost and a half dozen boneheaded plays are two different things. 
 

his two dumb runs, the fumble and the picks were bad but we have seen completely lost. He made a handful of terrible errors against an elite defense. We need to figure out how to keep 6-7 at 1-2 of those risks 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

I give you credit for tuning into the media today.

 

I'm not saying they're "wrong" - but all they do are hot takes anymore.  Josh had an absolutely terrible game last night. Burrow was worse over the weekend.  Mahomes wasn't exactly stellar.  

 

But one of those guys will probably be in the SB.  Allen cost us the game yesterday, but he'll probably be the reason we win the next (insert multiple games here)..

 

I don’t put much stock into anything a Stephen A Smith or Skip Bayless say… but people like Orlovsky I listen to.  
 

He’s not really getting hot take flamed … he’s getting lectured by people that were disappointed in him last night. 

[Unforgiven]

Say this spial continued...is there another qb this can be compared to

[UKBillFan]

Just now, HurlyBurly51 said:

Wondering at what point they start questioning what affect getting paid has had on him.  Some guys mail it in, are unfocused and/or unmotivated after getting that huge payday. 

 

Orlovsky had a dig with the "$250m" comment so it's starting - and it was always going to.

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

That's what is scary about it.

He’s had similar games, esp vs that defense. He was not on point , I just think the stage being too big was his problem. 

[Nester]

I was shocked he did not get a trip to the blue tent. Looked like he landed hard on his head more than once. 

[Success]

Just now, SCBills said:

I don’t put much stock into anything a Stephen A Smith or Skip Bayless say… but people like Orlovsky I listen to.  
 

He’s not really getting hot take flamed … he’s getting lectured by people that were disappointed in him last night. 

 

That would be fair.  I like Orlovsky - he is more old school.  There are some other good ones, and without doubt, JA's game last night deserves some scrutiny.

 

I'm just wary of judgments that are more broad, which I'm sure are out there.  And the guys who were JA doubters to begin with, who will claim some vindication based on this one game.  I can't even imagine Nick Wright's take today.  Good thing I'll never know what it was.

 

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Wondering at what point they start questioning what affect getting paid has had on him.  Some guys mail it in, are unfocused and/or unmotivated after getting that huge payday. 

Well, that’s how the NFL works. He wouldn’t be the first that couldn’t handle it. I’m not saying that’s his problem, but if he doesn’t right the ship he’ll be gone sooner than later. 

[Pirate Angel]

Offseason options:
             a) watch tape, work out, bust ass to get better
              b) F#$% Hailey Steinfeld

which one would you chose? 

[UKBillFan]

5 minutes ago, BillzFreak said:

No you don't surger coat it for him, you be honest and tell him it's unacceptable for him to play like that. He is an adult and he gets paid to play this game. It takes work, work and more work to make it to the NFL and even more work to stay in the NFL. So either he crumbles under that pressure to fix it or he works even harder to be better. I'm sorry I love Josh being the Qb for this team and will root for success every time he is out there, but it's on him to figure it out. Coaches can only do so much but eventually that whistle blows and players have to make the plays.

 

Coaches can help by taking the right approach with each individual player. For example, I reckon Diggs would relish a row if he has a bad game - be called awful, air home truths, get it all out and move on. Can't see that working with Josh.

 

I also thinks Josh KNOWS yesterday was unacceptable so the point of saying it to him is...? He's like Jekyl and Hyde - the Josh on the sidelines and off the field is different from the one on it.

 

Personally, I hope they sit him down, go through the film and say, what did you see, what were you thinking, what were you hoping to achieve, for both the good and bad. Push him to analyse and break down the game and take it from there.

Edited September 12, 2023 by UKBillFan

[Breakout Squad]

So much for laser focused. And why does Allen never look at the tablets on the sideline?!?! He’s always looking into space 

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

Say this spial continued...is there another qb this can be compared to

QBs who never lived up to their ultimate potential while remaining high end starters? Lots. Or are you suggesting a scenario where he'll be a 5 turnover/game guy and the worst player on the field from here on out after formerly being a top QB? There are less of those, but still a couple.

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, Pirate Angel said:

Offseason options:
             a) watch tape, work out, bust ass to get better
              b) F#$% Hailey Steinfeld

which one would you chose? 

 

Well, in fairness...

[SCBills]

Just now, UKBillFan said:

 

Coaches can help by taking the right approach with each individual player. For example, I reckon Diggs would relish a row if he has a bad game - be called awful, air home truths, get it all out and move on. Can't see that working with Josh.

 

I also thinks Josh KNOWS yesterday was unacceptable so the point of saying it to him is...? Personally, I hope they sit him down, go through the film and say, what did you see, what were you thinking, what were you hoping to achieve, for both the good and bad. Push him to analyse and break down the game and take it from there.

But this is a recurring theme..  We know he’s aware of what he needs to work on.   He tells us all the time. 
 

It keeps happening. 

[BarleyNY]

30 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Nope. Josh needs to have FUN to perform at his best. There's no "growing up" in ball security. Just part of playing football. Taking the fun out of his playing would hurt, not help. 

Most people would refer to what Orlovsky is talking about as ”being a professional”. GTFO of here with the high school “fun” bs. 

[Since1981]

34 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

Age 27, sixth season in the league, presumably this talk happened at some point well before now.  

 

If not, then coaching has to be quite seriously questioned.  

Daboll had it and left. Josh used to quote Dabs all the time. Just not hearing this anymore. 

[BillzFreak]

Just now, UKBillFan said:

 

Coaches can help by taking the right approach with each individual player. For example, I reckon Diggs would relish a row if he has a bad game - be called awful, air home truths, get it all out and move on. Can't see that working with Josh.

 

I also thinks Josh KNOWS yesterday was unacceptable so the point of saying it to him is...? Personally, I hope they sit him down, go through the film and say, what did you see, what were you thinking, what were you hoping to achieve, for both the good and bad. Push him to analyse and break down the game and take it from there.

But I have to think they have already taken that approach don't you? 

[juno999]

22 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

And this adds to the coaching decisions at OP. Everywhere he looks, Josh is being shredded. I don't think he's the kind to deal with bad press well. I am seriously concerned about Sunday because of this, the added pressure and everyone lining up to have a pop, what it's going to do to him.

 

The coaches will be wanting to understandably lay into him about yesterday as well, but is that the right response considering the outside noise? What is the correct reaction? They have to get it right, otherwise the Bills could lose to the Raiders and the season, possibly even Josh himself, will be at risk of spiralling.

 

Am I being melodramatic? I don't think so. A lot of us have been saying the coaching team is part of the problem, as they don't know how to manage him. If this is an accurate assessment, then they may not react adequately to the issue.

Allen ***** up last night and he owned it in the post game presser.  So that box is checked.  The Bills won't listen to the press.  Allen has been here before.  IIRC he had a terrible game against Pats at home 8n 2019 ?  He was knocked out of the game with a concussion.  Anyway he came back the next game and there was noticeable improvement in his game.  

[Fan in Chicago]

1 minute ago, Pirate Angel said:

Offseason options:
             a) watch tape, work out, bust ass to get better
              b) F#$% Hailey Steinfeld

which one would you chose? 

Which option is paying you $50 mm per year with hopes of more if you do more of?

Which gives you more adulation and positive press?

Which option provides hope to be remembered as a sports great?

And pleasure that lasts more than a few minutes? 

[Dick_Cheney]

I know it's only one game, but I think it's entirely possible he's lost focus. Celebrities are going to do what celebrities do, but things just have a different feel than when we were still under the radar and it felt like everyone was hyperfocused on truly being great. I know we are mere spectators and know little of what actually happens behind the scenes, but with all the time shooting commercials, jetting off to Cabo, and hanging out with movie stars on the golf course, I think there's a massive difference in what used to be an up and coming QB doing everything he could to prove himself, and with what Josh has become.

 

I really hope they can somehow get that back. If not, I think we really might be in trouble and I hate that I'm even thinking that.

 

But, like I said, it's one game. Hopefully.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Dick_Cheney

[LabattBlue]

18 minutes ago, Coldfronts said:

That game was bigger than he was and it sure showed it. He had deer in the headlights when they did a close-up of his eyes

If so, then how will he ever handle tbe pressure of being in a Super Bowl?

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, Pirate Angel said:

Offseason options:
             a) watch tape, work out, bust ass to get better
              b) F#$% Hailey Steinfeld

which one would you chose? 

I'd chose the one that's paying me $250M+ by a lot

Hopefully she has a hell of a personality.

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Daboll had it and left. Josh used to quote Dabs all the time. Just not hearing this anymore. 

This is a bigger factor than many think. They miss Daboll , and I think he helped to coax the best out of Josh while keeping his demons at bay. 

[NoSaint]

6 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Well, that’s how the NFL works. He wouldn’t be the first that couldn’t handle it. I’m not saying that’s his problem, but if he doesn’t right the ship he’ll be gone sooner than later. 

he’s got like 2-3 years of last night before he’s gone 

 

let’s come back to reality. He likely waltzes through 10 games like super man this year and is totally unquestioned 

[Fan in Chicago]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

If so, then how will he ever handle tbe pressure of being in a Super Bowl?

That's the over arching worry. Say Allen is "QB whispered" to the Superbowl. 

The opposing DC just has to open these multiple pages since last year to force Allen into the turnover machine. 

[Chaos]

Clearly we need to find someone willing to take Allen off our hands.  Coach McDermott needs someone better to have a chance to win, 

[Johnnycage46]

8 minutes ago, Pirate Angel said:

Offseason options:
             a) watch tape, work out, bust ass to get better
              b) F#$% Hailey Steinfeld

which one would you chose? 

 

If I were a professional football player who cared about the game as much as Allen claims to...option a) every time.  Girls come and go, but glory is forever.

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, NoSaint said:

he’s got like 2-3 years of last night before he’s gone 

 

let’s come back to reality. He likely waltzes through 10 games like super man this year and is totally unquestioned 

Maybe, and I hope he does. If the team falls short in the playoffs with a non Superman like performance the questions will get louder and more frequent. 

[BillzFreak]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

This is a bigger factor than many think. They miss Daboll , and I think he helped to coax the best out of Josh while keeping his demons at bay. 

So does Josh not trust Dorsey then? I mean what is the issue here, it's confusing on how things have played out since Daboll left, Well at least for me.

[UKBillFan]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

But this is a recurring theme..  We know he’s aware of what he needs to work on.   He tells us all the time. 
 

It keeps happening. 

 

Then what's the point of telling him again unless there is an underlying "or else" threat added to it? He knows, they know, we all know what he should be doing, but he cannot marry up brain and body when in the the moment. That's what they need to try and fix. Just telling him not to do it won't cut it; it won't do anything.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, BillzFreak said:

So does Josh not trust Dorsey then? I mean what is the issue here, it's confusing on how things have played out since Daboll left, Well at least for me.

He probably trusts him. But it’s possible that 

A . they’re a bit too chummy . At least more than he was with Daboll

B . Dorsey simply isn’t as good an OC and play designer. 

[UKBillFan]

8 minutes ago, BillzFreak said:

But I have to think they have already taken that approach don't you? 

 

I hope so, but there have been so many bizarre decisions being made by the coaches and players of late, I'm not sure how much common sense is being used at OP. It feels a bit of a cluster.... at the moment.

[3rdand12]

26 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

And this adds to the coaching decisions at OP. Everywhere he looks, Josh is being shredded. I don't think he's the kind to deal with bad press well. I am seriously concerned about Sunday because of this, the added pressure and everyone lining up to have a pop, what it's going to do to him.

 

The coaches will be wanting to understandably lay into him about yesterday as well, but is that the right response considering the outside noise? What is the correct reaction? They have to get it right, otherwise the Bills could lose to the Raiders and the season, possibly even Josh himself, will be at risk of spiralling.

 

Am I being melodramatic? I don't think so. A lot of us have been saying the coaching team is part of the problem, as they don't know how to manage him. If this is an accurate assessment, then they may not react adequately to the issue.

I might suggest that Coaches Do Not lay into him as might be needed

I also suggest he needs his QB Coach on the sideline with him, or bring Dorsey down.

 Josh needs a mentor when it gets ugly

Not Diggs in his ear

 and not after the game so much