Jonathan Taylor... NOW!

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, The_Ripster said:

1. They gotta get rid of Dorsey
2. They gotta go out and get the every-down offensive weapon they need

Thoughts?

 

Pop Quiz:  When was the last time a SB winner had a 1000 yard rusher?  

 

Answer:  2016.

 

Winning a Super Bowl and having a dominant run game do not go hand in hand anymore.  We don't need Taylor, we need to be smarter in how we call games (Dorsey), use our personnel (Dorsey again), and execute and make decisions on the field (Allen).  None of that has anything to do with needing Jonathon Taylor.

[warrior9]

42 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Willie Parker's salary was $4.15m the year the Steelers won the Superbowl in 09. That was the first one I checked. I doubt there's more but there's one. 

 

Sorry. There's been a few people saying there's been 0 players/teams that did or didn't do ____ when there has. 

Please see “starting RB” he was not the starter. 

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Why get more weapons when we wont even use the ones we have?

 

Cook played well. He looked exactly as I expect and want. Outran guys around the corner multiple times.

True and got tackled by a wind gust and a finger nail grab. 

[Norcalbillsfan]

5 hours ago, Bangarang said:

At no point last night did I think our biggest problem was RB. To answer question, I think it’s a dumb idea.

RB was not the problem. Cook looked good, hes not breece hall and he didnt need to be last night. Spending draft capitol/money on an RB is probably the worst thing beane could do right now.

[newcam2012]

53 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Pop Quiz:  When was the last time a SB winner had a 1000 yard rusher?  

 

Answer:  2016.

 

Winning a Super Bowl and having a dominant run game do not go hand in hand anymore.  We don't need Taylor, we need to be smarter in how we call games (Dorsey), use our personnel (Dorsey again), and execute and make decisions on the field (Allen).  None of that has anything to do with needing Jonathon Taylor.

Agree but the Bills need a much improved Oline and more explosive weapons. 

 

The offensive roster from top to bottom is just okay. Without a dynamic Allen it's probably much below average at all positions. 

 

Really evaluate each position: 

 

RB, WR, TE, and Oline. Are any of them top 10 material? 

 

Then put in Dorsey for good measures. 

 

This offense only goes as far as Allen takes us. It's 80 percent on him. He knows it and that's why he plays Superman. I think he feels the pressure. 

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree but the Bills need a much improved Oline and more explosive weapons. 

 

The offensive roster from top to bottom is just okay. Without a dynamic Allen it's probably much below average at all positions. 

 

Really evaluate each position: 

 

RB, WR, TE, and Oline. Are any of them top 10 material? 

 

Then put in Dorsey for good measures. 

 

This offense only goes as far as Allen takes us. It's 80 percent on him. He knows it and that's why he plays Superman. I think he feels the pressure. 

 

 

 

 

Personally, the talent is on this roster offensively and collectively at the skill positions they are in the top 10.  OL is not, but it does seem to be trending better than last year.  

 

I agree, I think Allen felt the pressure to elevate his team and was pressing too much, especially after the mistakes started piling up.  But, adding Taylor changes very little IMO because we just don't run even with the talent we have.  We have our best RB room since Allen go here and yet we still didn't run the ball much with them combining for something like 16 carries all game in a close game where Allen was struggling.  

 

Our run design is terrible and predominantly run from the stand point of being tricky more than committing to run the ball.  We still run out of non-traditional formations and Dorsey still calls draws for Allen and Cook even though we have guys like Harris and Murray better suited for those plays.  

 

I just don't see JT bringing much more to the team as long as Dorsey is OC.  He can't help when he isn't getting the ball.  

[Chaos]

7 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Enough of the same bull#### every game for 5 years.

Step away from the ledge. Dumb dumb take.

[Carmel Corn]

It won't happen, but IMHO a top RB can help this offense.  It sure worked for the Jets last night.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Carmel Corn said:

It won't happen, but IMHO a top RB can help this offense.  It sure worked for the Jets last night.

The Jets did NOT win that game because of ANYTHING that Breece Hall either did or didn’t do. What game was everyone watching? Allen played like crap and then when it really mattered the special teams allowed a punt return for a touchdown in a walk off. Hall was sitting on the sideline when all of that happened. 

[PauleeeWalnuts]

Cook didn’t throw three picks and lose a fumble, RB is not the problem here. 

[without a drought]

7 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Anyone else read the title like a ShamWow Infomercial?

 

You can get Jonathan Taylor NOW for just 16 installment payments of $750K!

That's not all, if you order within the next 48 hours, we will send you not 1 but 2 Jonathan Taylors, just pay separate handling fees. And wait, there is more we will slash your first payment, that's right you get 2 Jonathan Taylors for only 15 easy payments of 750k.

[McBean]

8 hours ago, The_Ripster said:

1. They gotta get rid of Dorsey
2. They gotta go out and get the every-down offensive weapon they need

Thoughts?

Let’s do everything but fire the inept mediocre HC.

 

Sounds glorious. 

[BillsDiehard]

8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Why get more weapons when we wont even use the ones we have?

 

Cook played well. He looked exactly as I expect and want. Outran guys around the corner XDmultiple times.

All*†

[BILLS55]

Cooks and Harris are perfectly fine RBs. The issue is Dorsey and the way Josh is being coached. Daboll had Josh playing much more disciplined then Dorsey. Not sure if it's the play calling or what but it's not working. Dorsey may have been a great QB coach but as an OC he stinks.  It feels like they are just letting Josh do what ever he wants instead of coaching up a game plan and sticking to it. Also someone has got to tell him to stop throwing his body around the field recklessly. 

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Thoughts NO 17 needs to actually learn how to take what the Defense gives him, and play within the offense.

 

Enough of the same bull#### every game for 5 years.

Exactly,  besides we don't even have a good enough OL to take advantage of a high end RB.  

[Since1981]

10 minutes ago, BILLS55 said:

Cooks and Harris are perfectly fine RBs. The issue is Dorsey and the way Josh is being coached. Daboll had Josh playing much more disciplined then Dorsey. Not sure if it's the play calling or what but it's not working. Dorsey may have been a great QB coach but as an OC he stinks

Agree !

OC is in Josh head (ear) literally EVERY play. Dabs had the knowledge gravitas and did the qb whispering/shouting, plays, insight 

[newcam2012]

38 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Personally, the talent is on this roster offensively and collectively at the skill positions they are in the top 10.  OL is not, but it does seem to be trending better than last year.  

 

I agree, I think Allen felt the pressure to elevate his team and was pressing too much, especially after the mistakes started piling up.  But, adding Taylor changes very little IMO because we just don't run even with the talent we have.  We have our best RB room since Allen go here and yet we still didn't run the ball much with them combining for something like 16 carries all game in a close game where Allen was struggling.  

 

Our run design is terrible and predominantly run from the stand point of being tricky more than committing to run the ball.  We still run out of non-traditional formations and Dorsey still calls draws for Allen and Cook even though we have guys like Harris and Murray better suited for those plays.  

 

I just don't see JT bringing much more to the team as long as Dorsey is OC.  He can't help when he isn't getting the ball.  

I'm not advocating acquiring Taylor. That would be a collosal mistake. 

 

We will disagree about the skill positions being top 10. I don't see it and frankly it's not really close. 

[HumbleAndHungry]

Running back has been a need for this team post Fred Jackson/McCoy. I know the league has evolved and RBs have been devalued but Josh specifically would greatly benefit from a top tier RB.  It would take some of the pressure off of him and possibly make him feel less need to press and take so many risks. Watching James cook immediately stop and sometimes go backwards at any form of contact is frustrating.  I miss the way Jackson always chose the right crease , always fell forward, always squeezed every ounce of productivity out of every run.  Taylor is very similar to that and I think in our specific situation it would really be beneficial to the offense and put us in more attainable 3rd down situations

Edited September 13, 2023 by Finkle Is Einhorn

[PBF81]

8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Why get more weapons when we wont even use the ones we have?

 

Reminds me of the Ren & Stimpy Rubber Nipple Salesmen episode.  

 

Stimpy: [whispers] You promised! [Ren motions Stimpy to continue.] Duhh hello, sir! Would you like to buy some shiny new Rubber Nipples? I made them myself! [smiles]

Mr. Pipe: Hmmm, nipples huh? Let me ask the wife. Honey, are we short on Rubber Nipples?

Mrs. Pipe: Now dear, don't you go buying new Rubber Nipples when you don't use the ones you already have.

Mr. Pipe: Well, maybe I would if they weren't all chewed up. Come on in, boys. Let's see what you've got.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Pop Quiz:  When was the last time a SB winner had a 1000 yard rusher?  

 

Answer:  2016.

 

Winning a Super Bowl and having a dominant run game do not go hand in hand anymore.  We don't need Taylor, we need to be smarter in how we call games (Dorsey), use our personnel (Dorsey again), and execute and make decisions on the field (Allen).  None of that has anything to do with needing Jonathon Taylor.

A bit deceiving. Sony Michel had 931 yards in 2018 and the Eagles finished 3rd in rushing yards in 2017. Also in 2018, the Pats finished 3rd in rushing attempts and 5th in rushing yards. Good RBs are an asset provided you have a great QB (which the Bills have).

Edited September 13, 2023 by dave mcbride

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 hour ago, without a drought said:

That's not all, if you order within the next 48 hours, we will send you not 1 but 2 Jonathan Taylors, just pay separate handling fees. And wait, there is more we will slash your first payment, that's right you get 2 Jonathan Taylors for only 15 easy payments of 750k.

From reports it seems the Ravens may be placing said order. But likely for only one Jonathan Taylor.

[Billschinatown]

9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Cook will not break tackles. He has never been that player.

 

It's actually really surprising seeing so many people upset about that this morning.

 

He's a speed guy. He beats guys to the corner or to the hole. And he did that very well all last night.

 

He will snap off big gains when we get him space like all the space Hall had to run through.

 

I just hate that Singletary was/is way better. Latavius Murray looked better in his limited game time IMO. 

[Billznut]

2 hours ago, BILLS55 said:

Cooks and Harris are perfectly fine RBs. The issue is Dorsey and the way Josh is being coached. Daboll had Josh playing much more disciplined then Dorsey. Not sure if it's the play calling or what but it's not working. Dorsey may have been a great QB coach but as an OC he stinks.  It feels like they are just letting Josh do what ever he wants instead of coaching up a game plan and sticking to it. Also someone has got to tell him to stop throwing his body around the field recklessly. 

Allen has been told repeatedly by everyone high up in the organization to stop taking unnecessary contact. Allen is who he is.

Are they going to bench him? No.

 

Is McDermott going to run on the field mid play and grab Allen to protect him? 
 

No

 

We can hope for Allen to change and/or stop these bad habits. I believe he is who he is and in the moment, during the play, he is a competitor and he can’t/won’t stop the risky throws and dangerous running. 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The Jets did NOT win that game because of ANYTHING that Breece Hall either did or didn’t do. What game was everyone watching? Allen played like crap and then when it really mattered the special teams allowed a punt return for a touchdown in a walk off. Hall was sitting on the sideline when all of that happened. 

Hall looked good. 

[Billl]

How does anyone come away from that game thinking that the Bills running backs were the problem?

[Solomon Grundy]

11 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Why get more weapons when we wont even use the ones we have?

 

Cook played well. He looked exactly as I expect and want. Outran guys around the corner multiple times.

Cook is NOT a run between the tackles type RB. He runs to daylight. The Bills need a RB that can run between the tackles and have the speed to hit the perimeter, a la Breece Hall. JT28 is also that guy

[Solomon Grundy]

11 hours ago, warrior9 said:

Neither did the Chiefs last year.. or the patriots in their dynasty, the eagles has 4 of them on rotation.

 

You don't win by paying RBs.. again, no team in the last 15 years has won a SB by paying an RB... not a single one. 

i fking hope not man. 

 

Like i said in another thread.... Week 1 is a lie. Some teams look better than they are and most look worse

They were lucky enough to draft/acquire talented RBs that fit the bill. They were strong enough to run between the tackles and fast enough to hit the perimeter. The Chiefs had McKinnon/#10. The Patriots during their dynasty had Dillon, Smith. Cook isn't built that way. Ask yourself why Kirby Smart didn't use him that way? 

[RyanC883]

11 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

Matt Ryan! NOW!!!!

 

funny thing, we win if we have Matt Ryan last night.  (no, this is not an actual get Matt Ryan post)

[Low Positive]

15 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

funny thing, we win if we have Matt Ryan last night.  (no, this is not an actual get Matt Ryan post)

I know. Both of those things are true. Josh giveth. Josh taketh away.

[cle23]

11 hours ago, warrior9 said:

When will people realize you do NOT win football games / Super Bowls by paying running backs? This board is OBSESSED with RBs.

 

No team who has won the Super Bowl in the last 15 years has paid a starting RB over 2.5M 

 

You don't win by paying an RB, these are world class athletes. You win by putting an OL on the field .. the RB is irrelevant. 

 

JT was GREAT his rookie year with the best OL in the NFL.. last year, they weren't as good and neither was he. As the OL goes, the RB goes. 

 

Leonard Fournette in Tampa made way more than $2.5M

Edited September 13, 2023 by cle23

[NewEra]

The BongRipster obv

[Solomon Grundy]

50 minutes ago, Billl said:

How does anyone come away from that game thinking that the Bills running backs were the problem?

Not THE problem, but A problem

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The Jets did NOT win that game because of ANYTHING that Breece Hall either did or didn’t do. What game was everyone watching? Allen played like crap and then when it really mattered the special teams allowed a punt return for a touchdown in a walk off. Hall was sitting on the sideline when all of that happened. 

Ummm... Those long runs put the Jets in position to score points

[John from Riverside]

I like Jonathan Taylor, the player
 

It always comes down to how much

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

A bit deceiving. Sony Michel had 931 yards in 2018 and the Eagles finished 3rd in rushing yards in 2017. Also in 2018, the Pats finished 3rd in rushing attempts and 5th in rushing yards. Good RBs are an asset provided you have a great QB (which the Bills have).

 

No disrespect intended here, but I am confused, how is it deceiving?  No Super Bowl team has had a 1000 yard rusher, meaning some lead bell cow back, since 2016.  I don't see what is deceiving about that when the topic of discussion is spending assets and cap space to get what is considered an elite bell cow RB.  And honestly, 1000 yards is not even an accomplishment, which is just 59 yards per game today or 62.5 yards per game when it was 16 games...yet no SB winner has had one in a NFL record 7 consecutive years now.    

 

Doesn't mean I wouldn't be excited if we got JT, but I also don't think we need him nor do I want to pay him and give up assets.  I would personally much rather invest the draft capital and cap space into the offensive line which would do more for this team than JT would IMHO.

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Hall looked good. 

 

On 2 plays and did nothing the rest of the game though.  And one of those plays was a blown assignment.

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No disrespect intended here, but I am confused, how is it deceiving?  No Super Bowl team has had a 1000 yard rusher, meaning some lead bell cow back, since 2016.  I don't see what is deceiving about that when the topic of discussion is spending assets and cap space to get what is considered an elite bell cow RB.  And honestly, 1000 yards is not even an accomplishment, which is just 59 yards per game today or 62.5 yards per game when it was 16 games...yet no SB winner has had one in a NFL record 7 consecutive years now.    

 

Doesn't mean I wouldn't be excited if we got JT, but I also don't think we need him nor do I want to pay him and give up assets.  I would personally much rather invest the draft capital and cap space into the offensive line which would do more for this team than JT would IMHO.

 

On 2 plays and did nothing the rest of the game though.  And one of those plays was a blown assignment.

You can't discount or ignore his 83 yard run. 

 

I mean that's like saying Allen played pretty good if you don't take into account his 4 turnovers.

[BillsFan130]

8 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I'm not advocating acquiring Taylor. That would be a collosal mistake. 

 

We will disagree about the skill positions being top 10. I don't see it and frankly it's not really close. 

Ya Bills definitely don’t have a top 10 skill position IMO

 

They have Diggs and then just a bunch of mediocre/average guys, and that’s it.

 

Kincaid looks promising but he’s of course only a rookie 

[warrior9]

9 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

They were lucky enough to draft/acquire talented RBs that fit the bill. They were strong enough to run between the tackles and fast enough to hit the perimeter. The Chiefs had McKinnon/#10. The Patriots during their dynasty had Dillon, Smith. Cook isn't built that way. Ask yourself why Kirby Smart didn't use him that way? 

They also had Tom Brady and a great OL. They still didn't pay them, no matter what anyone says, no team wins paying running backs.. numbers and history do not lie. 

 

Kirby Smart? you're comparing the NFL to a team that has 5 5* RB's on their team that play against less competition? Also, James Cook isn't a tackle breaker, he never has been and never will be. You people and your love for RB's is astonishing. Ask yourself, how many Superbowls does Walter Payton, AP, Barry Sanders, etc etc etc have? 

9 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

Leonard Fournette in Tampa made way more than $2.5M

Good try, it was 2M on the button when they won and anyway, Ronald Jones was their starter per the team website, depth chart, etc. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam/2020_roster.htm

 

LOL people and their RB's.. it's so crazy that people want to spend money on a play that is disposable instead of spending that 15M on another linemen... then it wont matter who is at RB.. James Cook is averaging 6YPC since week 14 or so of last year. He is hardly the problem

[warrior9]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No disrespect intended here, but I am confused, how is it deceiving?  No Super Bowl team has had a 1000 yard rusher, meaning some lead bell cow back, since 2016.  I don't see what is deceiving about that when the topic of discussion is spending assets and cap space to get what is considered an elite bell cow RB.  And honestly, 1000 yards is not even an accomplishment, which is just 59 yards per game today or 62.5 yards per game when it was 16 games...yet no SB winner has had one in a NFL record 7 consecutive years now.    

 

LOL it's deceiving to these people even if you put out a FACT...  You can't reason with people who clamor for big names for no other reason that to have a big name. 

 

JT was below average when his line was below average last year.. just like every single RB in the NFL and NFL history. You pay linemen and your QB.. not your RB ... as history shows. People think that the Bills paying an RB is going to somehow change that narrative. 

[The Frankish Reich]

11 hours ago, Billschinatown said:

 

I just hate that Singletary was/is way better. Latavius Murray looked better in his limited game time IMO. 

We are going to miss Singletary. He had his limitations, but overall came closer to an all purpose back than anyone on the roster now.

I don't hate Cook. And I see why Beane did the Harris instead of Singletary thing. But right now there doesn't seem to be anyone Dorsey/McD trusts who can be the primary between the tackles RB. 

I predict Murray starts seeing major PT next week.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Oh FFS, here we go again