Do you think Josh cuts the INT's in half this year or is another year with double digit INT's

[Buffalo_Stampede]

38 TDs

21 INTs

 

 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

Because I have the temerity to discuss Josh's ball security issues in a threat about Josh's ball security?

Because the entirety of your repertoire is so hilariously incongruent w the actual success of the Bills of late

[Billl]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

we are all shaking in our boots over the fumbles by Allen that have cost the Bills a Super Bowl.

 

Can you remind us which of those 8 fumbles those were again?

 

 

I don't know that it cost them a Super Bowl, but his fumble against the Texans resulted in a FG for Houston in a game the Texans won in OT.

[Billl]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Because the entirety of your repertoire is so hilariously incongruent w the actual success of the Bills of late

I've been dead on with pretty much everything I've said about them.  They've been a very good team that haven't been able to get over the hump the past few seasons.

 

All off-season, I've said that their age, injuries, and lack of hits in the draft is likely to reveal itself in a big way this season.  Unless I've missed something that makes my take "hilariously incongruent" with reality, the next time you're able to tell me "I told you so" will be the first.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Billl

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, Billl said:

I don't know that it cost them a Super Bowl, but his fumble against the Texans resulted in a FG for Houston in a game the Texans won in OT.

Tell us more about this playoff game that you definitely did not watch

1 minute ago, Billl said:

I've been dead on with pretty much everything I've said about them.  They've been a very good team that haven't been able to get over the hump the past few seasons.

 

All off-season, I've said that their age, injuries, and lack of hits in the draft is likely to reveal itself in a big way this season.  Unless I've missed something that makes my take "hilariously incongruent" with reality, the next time you're able to tell me "I told you so" will be the first.

You literally just tried to claim burrow had 100% more rushing TDs than he actually does😂😂😂

[Billl]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Tell us more about this playoff game that you definitely did not watch

I watched him panic in OT and throw a ball blindly backwards over his head.  https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1213620109643792384

 

I also watched him throw a jump ball to a FB who was double covered.

https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1213625501996273665?s=20

Edited August 23, 2023 by Billl

[Billl]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

literally just tried to claim burrow had 100% more rushing TDs than he actually does

Wow, I typed two instead of one.

[Airseven]

Just now, Billl said:

Wow, I typed two instead of one.

He could be a good politician though.

[BananaB]

***** last year, it’s over. Josh had a terrible oline, a lot of inconsistencies at WR and rookie OC. And an injury which in a recent interview he said he never threw a pass in practice for about 4 or 5 weeks…. If that was some of the other media darlings admitting that we would never hear the end of it. All the original doubters jump on Allen’s back the minute something goes wrong because they want to say I told you so. *****em

Edited August 23, 2023 by BananaB

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

49 minutes ago, julian said:

Burrow isn’t on Allen’s level and I don’t believe it’s particularly close, the Burrow’s D gives up 10 less points per game than Allen’s in the postseason, it’s a team sport, crazy I know.

 

that being said I do believe Burrow is excellent but just doesn’t have all the tools Mahomes and Allen have.

 

id slot him 4th behind Mahomes Allen Herbert.

 

 

 

 I agree 100%. 

 

 I would also add that the Bengals postseason success the last 2 years has been having the best postseasonn defense & their kicker is something like 21 for 21 on fgs.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

20 minutes ago, Billl said:

I don't know that it cost them a Super Bowl, but his fumble against the Texans resulted in a FG for Houston in a game the Texans won in OT.

would’ve been one hell of a run if the 2019 bills won the Super Bowl. One for the ages.

 

The point that the postseason Joe Burrow supporters are missing here is that yeah Josh Allen turns the ball over more, but the dude also puts a lot of points on the scoreboard. Something that to this point, Joe Burrow hasn’t done and so far has been lucky enough not to be called on to do.

 

if Allen was a single digit turnover quarterback, these last three years to go along with his 40+ touchdowns, he would likely be a three time MVP, and probably on his way to the GOAT quarterback status. In other words, those are some lofty expectations.

 

i’m not saying there won’t be a year where Allen puts up 40 touchdowns and single digit turnovers. But it shouldn’t be the expectation. If Allen does put up single digit turnovers, those same folks shouldn’t be upset if he only totals 30 touchdowns on the season because he was being more cautious.

 

 

[FireChans]

31 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

would’ve been one hell of a run if the 2019 bills won the Super Bowl. One for the ages.

 

The point that the postseason Joe Burrow supporters are missing here is that yeah Josh Allen turns the ball over more, but the dude also puts a lot of points on the scoreboard. Something that to this point, Joe Burrow hasn’t done and so far has been lucky enough not to be called on to do.

 

if Allen was a single digit turnover quarterback, these last three years to go along with his 40+ touchdowns, he would likely be a three time MVP, and probably on his way to the GOAT quarterback status. In other words, those are some lofty expectations.

 

i’m not saying there won’t be a year where Allen puts up 40 touchdowns and single digit turnovers. But it shouldn’t be the expectation. If Allen does put up single digit turnovers, those same folks shouldn’t be upset if he only totals 30 touchdowns on the season because he was being more cautious.

 

 

??????

[In Summary]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

im fine with the occasional crazy int. But he seem to struggle with ball security which also single-handedly cause us the Vikings game. 

This. The fumbles are more infuriating than most any INT.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, In Summary said:

This. The fumbles are more infuriating than most any INT.

Not last year. His redzone INTs were infuriating, but he did fix it.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 minutes ago, In Summary said:

This. The fumbles are more infuriating than most any INT.

I much rather have a fumble.

 

you basically have a 50-50 chance of recovering a fumble maybe better in this case since Allen a lot of the times is the first person aware of the fumble and in position to recover like his fumble at the goal line against the Lions for example.

[Billl]

45 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

would’ve been one hell of a run if the 2019 bills won the Super Bowl. One for the ages.

 

The point that the postseason Joe Burrow supporters are missing here is that yeah Josh Allen turns the ball over more, but the dude also puts a lot of points on the scoreboard. Something that to this point, Joe Burrow hasn’t done and so far has been lucky enough not to be called on to do.

 

if Allen was a single digit turnover quarterback, these last three years to go along with his 40+ touchdowns, he would likely be a three time MVP, and probably on his way to the GOAT quarterback status. In other words, those are some lofty expectations.

 

i’m not saying there won’t be a year where Allen puts up 40 touchdowns and single digit turnovers. But it shouldn’t be the expectation. If Allen does put up single digit turnovers, those same folks shouldn’t be upset if he only totals 30 touchdowns on the season because he was being more cautious.

 

 

I agree with almost all of this, but part of the reason Burrow hasn’t been called on to put up tons of points is that he hasn’t turned the ball over and put his defense in terrible positions.  In the Dolphins playoff game, Buffalo had to score more than 31 to win.  Was that bad luck for Josh, or was it his own doing?

 

Josh threw an interception that led to an 18 yard drive by Miami ending in a FG.  Then, Josh threw another interception that led to another 18 yard drive by Miami.  This one resulted in a TD.  Then Josh fumbled, and Miami returned it for a TD.  That’s 18 points directly attributable to turnovers by Allen.  Miami scored 6 times in that game.  Their scoring drives in terms of yards gained were 38, 18, 18, 8, 0 (defensive score), and 75.  That’s one legit drive allowed by Buffalo.  

Josh, IMO, is either the second or third best QB in the game.  Burrow is right there with him even though they’re very different players.  Josh puts up bigger numbers, but he also takes more chances.  If Burrow took more chances, he’d put up bigger numbers as well.  It comes down to whether the juice is worth the squeeze.  So far, Burrow has an AFC championship trophy and a blowout win over the Bills, so he’s got a legit argument for being the better QB.  Josh has bigger numbers with fewer elite weapons, so he’s also got a legit argument.

 

[Scott7975]

Not all of them were his fault, but he did have some headscratchers last year.  Especially in the redzone.  It's those redzone ones I would like to see him cut down on.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

I agree with almost all of this, but part of the reason Burrow hasn’t been called on to put up tons of points is that he hasn’t turned the ball over and put his defense in terrible positions.  In the Dolphins playoff game, Buffalo had to score more than 31 to win.  Was that bad luck for Josh, or was it his own doing?

 

Josh threw an interception that led to an 18 yard drive by Miami ending in a FG.  Then, Josh threw another interception that led to another 18 yard drive by Miami.  This one resulted in a TD.  Then Josh fumbled, and Miami returned it for a TD.  That’s 18 points directly attributable to turnovers by Allen.  Miami scored 6 times in that game.  Their scoring drives in terms of yards gained were 38, 18, 18, 8, 0 (defensive score), and 75.  That’s one legit drive allowed by Buffalo.  

Josh, IMO, is either the second or third best QB in the game.  Burrow is right there with him even though they’re very different players.  Josh puts up bigger numbers, but he also takes more chances.  If Burrow took more chances, he’d put up bigger numbers as well.  It comes down to whether the juice is worth the squeeze.  So far, Burrow has an AFC championship trophy and a blowout win over the Bills, so he’s got a legit argument for being the better QB.  Josh has bigger numbers with fewer elite weapons, so he’s also got a legit argument.

 

I love Josh more than anyone. But Josh has never had to put up 40 to win and done so in the postseason either. To hold Burrow to that standard or else hes's a glorified Trent Dilfer is LUDICROUS.

 

Josh has one game, one game in his postseason career, where he played almost perfect and lost. That sucks. It happens and it's been talked to death. But to act as though he's been dragging the Bills for 4 years through these deep playoff runs is BANANAS.

 

Josh played like ***** against the Bengals in 2022. The whole team sucked. We lost. Josh made CRITICAL errors vs the Dolphins the week before. It turned a running for the bus game into a dog fight.

 

Josh was perfect in 2021.

 

Josh played well vs the Colts in 2020. Hard fought game vs a good team.  He was kinda bad vs the Ravens, and we needed a pick six to close it out (offense only put up 10 points.)  He was meh vs the Chiefs in 2020 but that was a team loss, in which he takes his share of the blame as well.

 

Josh was bad v Houston in 2019.  He was on the wrong end of a comeback, and again, had several critical mistakes to lose.

 

These things are all okay.  Peyton Manning was one of the greatest QBs ever and his resume is STACKED with some ugly playoff moments.  He still won two Superbowls.

 

None of this means Josh isn't "clutch" or that he doesn't have a ton of "putting the team on my back" moments. But he ain't no Tom Brady yet either.

[GoBills808]

Lol

 

Allen has better playoff numbers than Tom Brady across the entire board

[4th&long]

6 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

When you throw the ball 500+ times, have 30+ TDs and have under 15 picks, I’m not too worried.

People don’t get this. They put the ball in the air a lot, it’s going to happen. The other guys are getting paid also. There were some ugly red zone picks, I just hope he cuts down on them, that’s what killed us. The rest I’m not too worried about.

Edited August 23, 2023 by 4th&long

[FilthyBeast]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Last Time I checked football is the ultimate team game?

 

Burrow was not the reason the Bengals went to the super bowl...sure , a part.. but not the reason

 

I wager Josh Allen wins the super bowl if he was on that Bengals team

 

Joe burrow hasn't won anything yet either.. going to the super bowl means squat

 

Is Nick foles a better quarterback than Josh Allen because he's a super bowl winner? No

 

These are valid points, but I sense a lot of ya'all are wrong about Burrow just like many Bills fans that wanted to believe (and some probably still do) that JA17 is better than Mahomes.

 

Nothing wrong with being in the top 5 - 10 mix at all and it doesn't preclude JA17 from winning multiple SB's at some point but I can't imagine there are many NFL GM's that would take JA17 over Burrow right now. In fact I'd trade JA17 for either Burrow or Mahomes (probably even a few others) without blinking or thinking twice about it.

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

These are valid points, but I sense a lot of ya'all are wrong about Burrow just like many Bills fans that wanted to believe (and some probably still do) that JA17 is better than Mahomes.

 

Nothing wrong with being in the top 5 - 10 mix at all and it doesn't preclude JA17 from winning multiple SB's at some point but I can't imagine there are many NFL GM's that would take JA17 over Burrow right now. In fact I'd trade JA17 for either Burrow or Mahomes (probably even a few others) without blinking or thinking twice about it.

I don't think anybody here said burrow isn't good or top 3-4

 

He's elite

 

But that doesn't mean Josh Allen is not better... Josh has tons of NFL records to his name that are only going to grow.. only player ever to have three straight 40 touchdown seasons

 

He certainly has the room to grow and be the best player in the world.. not the best quarterback the best player in the world... And when he's dialed in he might be the best player in the world already

 

If he cuts down some turnovers the sky is the limit

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Franco_92]

In the 2021 playoffs burrow got to the super bowl leading his offense to 7 touchdowns on 45 drives. Those same playoffs Allen led the Bills to 12 touchdowns in 16 drives 

[FireChans]

43 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Lol

 

Allen has better playoff numbers than Tom Brady across the entire board

Allen is better than Brady in the playoffs is a lol-worthy take, but probably not in the way you think.

[GoBills808]

14 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Allen is better than Brady in the playoffs is a lol-worthy take, but probably not in the way you think.

comp%

Allen- 63.8

Brady- 62.5

 

TD%

Allen- 5.5

Brady- 4.6

 

INT%

Allen-1.3

Brady- 2.1

 

rating

Allen- 99.6

Brady- 89.8

 

ypg

Allen- 292

Brady- 280

 

any/a

Allen- 7.02

Brady- 6.42

 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

comp%

Allen- 63.8

Brady- 62.5

 

TD%

Allen- 5.5

Brady- 4.6

 

INT%

Allen-1.3

Brady- 2.1

 

rating

Allen- 99.6

Brady- 89.8

 

ypg

Allen- 292

Brady- 280

 

any/a

Allen- 7.02

Brady- 6.42

 

Lmao even Josh himself would say you’re insane.

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

I think he can do this if he is smarter with the ball in the red-zone,  last year he made some really bad throws that were picked off and should have been check down throws instead.

 

This also goes back to what Dorsey does this year to help with this problem by utilizing the backs and TE's more

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcJTPRjTldo

 

 

 

 

 

especially in a 17 game season, 10 picks don’t worry me. 
 

at that tier, it’s more about context. Having a red zone int returned as a pick 6 in a tight game would a totally different discussion than lobbying a deep ball vs the pats in the 2nd quarter 

 

or clustering 3 against a conference rivaL

 

in General a pick basically every other game is pretty meh though 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

5 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Sometimes you have to look beyond the numbers and what actually matters. And when I look at Burrow I see a guy that's 4-2 lifetime in the playoffs (2 appearances) including 3-1 on the road in the AFC playoffs. One SB appearance, back to back AFCCG. This isn't by accident. JA17 in comparison is 4-4 (4 appearances) including 0-3 on the road.

 

It's not taking away anything from JA17, I've moved past doubting him and he's definitely a top 5 - 10 NFL QB at worst but I just don't see how you can put him in the same conversation with Mahomes/Burrow until he at least gets to a SB, wins a road playoff game, etc. Obviously the current HC is a major reason why this hasn't happened yet and why the SB will remain elusive as long as he's here.

 

 Burrow has never put up more than 27 points in any playoff game he's played to date. Josh's 8 postseason game average nearly matches Burrow's career high averaging 26.75 ppg. 

 

 Burrow has thrown 9 tds & 4 ints on 251 postseason attempts, averaging 7.27 yards per attempt. He's led Cincy to 12 td drives & a whopping 19 fg drives in 7 career postseason games. Talk about not being able to get it in the endzone.

 

Josh has thrown 17 tds & only 4 ints on 309 postseason attempts, averaging 7.55 yards per attempt. He's led Buffalo to 24 td drives & 14 fgs in 8 postseason games. Look at the passing tds & td/fg ratio of them both. One is far better than the other. Josh has nearly twice as many passing tds as Burrow dies in only 1 extra game and still has the same number of ints as Burrow.

 

 Josh's postseason QB Rating is also 5.8 points higher than Burrows(99.6 vs 93.8). Now let's widen the gap even more. Burrows career postseason rushing stats 26/101/3.88/1. Allen's career postseason rushing stats 63/417/6.62/2. Allen also has the only postseason reception between the 2 going for 16 yards and yet another td. Burrow has also been sacked 8 more times than Allen on about 50 less dropbacks.

 

The postseason numbers all the way around show Allen hasn’t just been better than Burrow, he's been quite a bit better. Even though he has a DC as HC and a much, much worse supporting cast on offense while Burrow has an OC as HC and a far better OL and weapons. 

 

 At this point you're just being a Burrow homer and penalizing Josh for having a worse supporting cast. The only thing better about Burrow in the postseason has been he's had the best postseason defense over the last 2 postseasons and his kicker has been perfect in 7 career postseason games averaging nearly 3 fgs a game.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

These are valid points, but I sense a lot of ya'all are wrong about Burrow just like many Bills fans that wanted to believe (and some probably still do) that JA17 is better than Mahomes.

 

Nothing wrong with being in the top 5 - 10 mix at all and it doesn't preclude JA17 from winning multiple SB's at some point but I can't imagine there are many NFL GM's that would take JA17 over Burrow right now. In fact I'd trade JA17 for either Burrow or Mahomes (probably even a few others) without blinking or thinking twice about it.

yea, I mean Big Ben was neither Brady nor manning but did do pretty well for himself I suppose, right?

[Billl]

Comparing current stats to a guy who came into the league 23 years ago is…something.

 

Brady’s first playoffs were in 2001.  2 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards that season.  9 threw for over 20 TDs.  12 threw more that 15 INTs.

 

In 2022, 9 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards, 14 threw over 20 TDs, and none threw more than 15 INTs.

 

In 2001, there had been one 5,000 yard passing season in history, and it hadn’t happened in 17 years.  It’s happened 14 times since then.  To put it mildly, it’s not an apples to apples comparison.

 

When Brady was at the same point in his career that Josh is in today, he had 11 TDs, 3 INTs, 2 fumbles, and was 9-0.

 

Josh has 17 TDs, 4 INTs, 8 fumbles, and is 4-4.  

 

Both have impressive numbers, but that doesn’t mean that Josh is an equal or superior postseason QB to Brady.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Billl

[In Summary]

3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I much rather have a fumble.

 

you basically have a 50-50 chance of recovering a fumble maybe better in this case since Allen a lot of the times is the first person aware of the fumble and in position to recover like his fumble at the goal line against the Lions for example.

Well reasoned. I'll restate thus, fumbles seem to be the more needless type of turnover. 

[DapperCam]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

Comparing current stats to a guy who came into the league 23 years ago is…something.

 

Brady’s first playoffs were in 2001.  2 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards that season.  9 threw for over 20 TDs.  12 threw more that 15 INTs.

 

In 2022, 9 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards, 14 threw over 20 TDs, and none threw more than 15 INTs.

 

In 2001, there had been one 5,000 yard passing season in history, and it hadn’t happened in 17 years.  It’s happened 14 times since then.  To put it mildly, it’s not an apples to apples comparison.

 

When Brady was at the same point in his career that Josh is in today, he had 11 TDs, 3 INTs, 2 fumbles, and was 9-0.

 

Josh has 17 TDs, 4 INTs, 8 fumbles, and is 4-4.  

 

Both have impressive numbers, but that doesn’t mean that Josh is an equal or superior postseason QB to Brady.

Brady was greatly helped in his early playoff runs by having an elite defense.

[Dr.Sack]

Allen loves throwing into coverages no QB since Favre would attempt. To make it spicier Allen also loves mimicking McCoy with the ball. All told Allen is good for 25-30 turnover worthy plays per season. It’s all part of the JA17 experience and I’m fine with that.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Dr.Sack

[without a drought]

Is this a sign Tyrod thread?

[LABILLBACKER]

It will depend on the OL and Josh's ability to embrace the pocket. If the OT's fail, he'll be off to the races.  27 total turnovers must drop to below 20.

Edited August 24, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[Billl]

47 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Brady was greatly helped in his early playoff runs by having an elite defense.

That’s true, but isn’t the same true of Allen?

 

Buffalo has ranked 2nd, 1st, 16th, and 2nd the past 4 seasons in points allowed.  

 

New England ranked 7th, 2nd, 14th, and 13th Brady’s first 4 seasons.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Billl

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Burrow has never put up more than 27 points in any playoff game he's played to date. Josh's 8 postseason game average nearly matches Burrow's career high averaging 26.75 ppg. 

 

 Burrow has thrown 9 tds & 4 ints on 251 postseason attempts, averaging 7.27 yards per attempt. He's led Cincy to 12 td drives & a whopping 19 fg drives in 7 career postseason games. Talk about not being able to get it in the endzone.

 

Josh has thrown 17 tds & only 4 ints on 309 postseason attempts, averaging 7.55 yards per attempt. He's led Buffalo to 24 td drives & 14 fgs in 8 postseason games. Look at the passing tds & td/fg ratio of them both. One is far better than the other. Josh has nearly twice as many passing tds as Burrow dies in only 1 extra game and still has the same number of ints as Burrow.

 

 Josh's postseason QB Rating is also 5.8 points higher than Burrows(99.6 vs 93.8). Now let's widen the gap even more. Burrows career postseason rushing stats 26/101/3.88/1. Allen's career postseason rushing stats 63/417/6.62/2. Allen also has the only postseason reception between the 2 going for 16 yards and yet another td. Burrow has also been sacked 8 more times than Allen on about 50 less dropbacks.

 

The postseason numbers all the way around show Allen hasn’t just been better than Burrow, he's been quite a bit better. Even though he has a DC as HC and a much, much worse supporting cast on offense while Burrow has an OC as HC and a far better OL and weapons. 

 

 At this point you're just being a Burrow homer and penalizing Josh for having a worse supporting cast. The only thing better about Burrow in the postseason has been he's had the best postseason defense over the last 2 postseasons and his kicker has been perfect in 7 career postseason games averaging nearly 3 fgs a game.

 

 

If only Burrow got to play the tomatocan Pats.

[90sBills]

26 minutes ago, Billl said:

That’s true, but isn’t the same true of Allen?

 

Buffalo has ranked 2nd, 1st, 16th, and 2nd the past 4 seasons in points allowed.  

 

New England ranked 7th, 2nd, 14th, and 13th Brady’s first 4 seasons.

I’d say it’s more true of Burrow. Bills defense hasn’t been good in the playoffs. 

[MJS]

Well, cutting them in half would be incredible, but I think he needs to not turn the ball over as much. His turnovers were up last year. We know he has the ability to turn it over less.

 

Maybe his injury played into it, or the receivers, or whatever, but the bottom line is he needs to elevate and take command of the offense and take care of the football better. Cutting down the turnovers should be a primary focus for him and the offense.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

If only Burrow got to play the tomatocan Pats.

 

 The tomatocan Pats defense that year was 4th in yards allowed and 2nd in point allowed.