SI dumping all over McDermott at #22

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Not to mention trading up for him.

 

The Chiefs have a great qb and they went all out to protect him. We have a great QB and place emphasis on the defensive backfield. It's a decades old problem that started with Marv.

 

Since the Bills drafted Josh they have spent 1 first rounder on a DB and 0 day two picks. Since the Chiefs drafted Patrick they have spent 1 first rounder on a DB and 2 day two picks. 

 

So run it past me again, which team has over prioritised DBs? 

 

 

[Niagara Dude]

On 5/27/2023 at 6:21 PM, Toyo321 said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-bills-sean-mcdermott-head-coach-rankings-andy-reid-bill-belichick#:~:text=NFL Coach Rankings%3A Bills' Sean,22nd among active head coaches.\\

 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/rankings/nfl-head-coaching-rankings-which-teams-coach-reigns-supreme/

 

Sport Illustrated just dumped on him based on The 33rd Team analysis.  I do believe this year he seriously is in the hot seat, now that he to has call the D this year on top of the head coaching duties.

 

I guess we will see.

 

This all points to big games in the playoffs, 13 secs is all on him because he had timeouts and he needs to make sure everyone knows their job and what to do.  It started with the kickoff and then next with DB'S playing off the line and trying to protect the sidelines when KC had timeouts.  You can include not just holding guys on the first play to burn clock and only give up 5 yards.  

 

As for the Cincy game,  they came out flat and it just never got it corrected. Yes the Bills have had some great regular season success,  but a lot of those wins came against teams with garbage QB'S.  I think this season will be Sean's biggest test,  the division is no longer a given and the East (4 elite level QB'S alone)is stacked with good QB'S.  

 

I think Sean made a wise decision moving on from Frazier,  not sure about getting rid of him and now calling defensive plays himself,  but we shall see if it was him all along with the conservative no blitzing thinking or Frazier. If Sean shows to be aggressive and they start racking up sacks then Frazier is toast. If the opposite happens then Frazier can just claim it was Sean who did not like to blitz. We heard from Frazier that it was Sean who did not like sending extra guys to get to the QB. 

[GreggTX]

I don't get all the hate for McDermott, but HC'ing performance is judged by the performance of others and I can't honestly say that we've ever had the best roster in the NFL despite rumors to the contrary.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Since the Bills drafted Josh they have spent 1 first rounder on a DB and 0 day two picks. Since the Chiefs drafted Patrick they have spent 1 first rounder on a DB and 2 day two picks. 

 

So run it past me again, which team has over prioritised DBs? 

 

 

 

The Bills?  The Chiefs don't prioritize the secondary anywhere near as much as the Bills.   People forget they let Mathieu AND Charvarius Ward walk last offseason.   They have no money invested there to speak of and only the 1 high pick.   The investments between the 2 teams are quite an extreme contrast.      

[Bill from NYC]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Since the Bills drafted Josh they have spent 1 first rounder on a DB and 0 day two picks. Since the Chiefs drafted Patrick they have spent 1 first rounder on a DB and 2 day two picks. 

 

So run it past me again, which team has over prioritised DBs? 

 

 

The one which gave away for the pick for Mahomes in order to to draft a cornerback, and luckily drafted Josh Allen.

 

Please be serious.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Bill from NYC

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The Bills?  The Chiefs don't prioritize the secondary anywhere near as much as the Bills.   People forget they let Mathieu AND Charvarius Ward walk last offseason.   They have no money invested there to speak of and only the 1 high pick.   The investments between the 2 teams are quite an extreme contrast.      

 

They have two high picks on their current team - Trent McDuffie (1st round) and Bryan Cook (2nd round). They also spent a 2nd on Juan Thornhill in the relevant time period. During which time other than Kaiir Elam the Bills haven't spent higher than a 4th on a DB. 

 

If you include money invested there, I agree. Of their 5 anticipated starters in 2023 only Justin Reid isn't on a rookie deal. The Bills have paid 4 of their guys. But @BillfromNYC goes on and on about the Bills using high draft picks on DBs. Even if you include Tre White in 2017 the Bills have used fewer day 1 and 2 picks on DBs under this regime than almost any team in football during the same period. There is plenty of legitimate criticism that can be made about their draft strategy. Over valuing defensive backs isn't one of them. 

 

EDIT: Indeed I have run the numbers.... every team in the top 10 W-L% since 2017 and every team that has played in a Superbowl. Only one other team has spent 2 or fewer day 1/2 picks on DBs since 2017..... the Rams (who always trade away their picks and have made two big trades for CBs in that time in Ramsey and Peters). Okay our first round outlay is higher than some but our overall draft investment in DBs over the last 7 years is pretty much bottom of the NFL in terms of day 1 and 2 picks. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by GunnerBill

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They have two high picks on their current team - Trent McDuffie (1st round) and Bryan Cook (2nd round). They also spent a 2nd on Juan Thornhill in the relevant time period. During which time other than Kaiir Elam the Bills haven't spent higher than a 4th on a DB. 

 

If you include money invested there, I agree. Of their 5 anticipated starters in 2023 only Justin Reid isn't on a rookie deal. The Bills have paid 4 of their guys. But @BillfromNYC goes on and on about the Bills using high draft picks on DBs. Even if you include Tre White in 2017 the Bills have used fewer day 1 and 2 picks on DBs under this regime than almost any team in football during the same period. There is plenty of legitimate criticism that can be made about their draft strategy. Over valuing defensive backs isn't one of them. 

 

I'd say Thornhill is officially out of the relevant range because his rookie contract ended and he wasn't renewed.   Gotta' draw a line somewhere.   So the Chiefs have a 1st and a 2nd and 1 big contract.   The Bills have a 1st and 4 big contracts.   That's 5 to 3.   Is there really any doubt that they would have drafted more DB's early if they didn't have 4 of the 5 positions filled for the past 5 years?    The minute they had a temporary hole at CB they drafted one in the first round.   Are the Bills the most DB-centric team in football?   I remember being pleased about the fact that the McDefense had a history of producing with lesser investments at CB2/CB3 and the safety positions in Carolina.........but in Buffalo they have spent big to fill out their secondary.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I'd say Thornhill is officially out of the relevant range because his rookie contract ended and he wasn't renewed.   Gotta' draw a line somewhere.   So the Chiefs have a 1st and a 2nd and 1 big contract.   The Bills have a 1st and 4 big contracts.   That's 5 to 3.   Is there really any doubt that they would have drafted more DB's early if they didn't have 4 of the 5 positions filled for the past 5 years?    The minute they had a temporary hole at CB they drafted one in the first round.   Are the Bills the most DB-centric team in football?   I remember being pleased about the fact that the McDefense had a history of producing with lesser investments at CB2/CB3 and the safety positions in Carolina.........but in Buffalo they have spent big to fill out their secondary.

 

No, the Patriots are. But the Bills are a defense that works best back to front, I agree with that. Maybe they will suddenly start drafting loads of day 1 and day 2 DBs.... but to make that a criticism of this regime when that is not what they have done isn't fair. 

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No, the Patriots are. But the Bills are a defense that works best back to front, I agree with that. Maybe they will suddenly start drafting loads of day 1 and day 2 DBs.... but to make that a criticism of this regime when that is not what they have done isn't fair. 

 

The Patriots might be that philosophically.........but they still don't have quite the investment the Bills have at DB.     The Bills don't have a 4th round rookie contract like Jack Jones in their starting lineup.   The Bills could have gone that way in a very deep 2022 draft of CB's and just picked a mid-rounder and plugged him in.........hell they could have just kept the pick they used to trade up for Elam and likely got a serviceable CB like NE or KC did.............but they chose instead to invest big.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The Patriots might be that philosophically.........but they still don't have quite the investment the Bills have at DB.     The Bills don't have a 4th round rookie contract like Jack Jones in their starting lineup.   The Bills could have gone that way in a very deep 2022 draft of CB's and just picked a mid-rounder and plugged him in.........hell they could have just kept the pick they used to trade up for Elam and likely got a serviceable CB like NE or KC did.............but they chose instead to invest big.

 

KC traded up bigger. Again, that is not evidence of the Bills over investing draft wise compared to their rivals. If you want to say that they have invested more in vet contracts than most teams go ahead, I've not disputed that. I can't remember too many teams that have paid both safeties like the Bills have, the Vikings did with Harris and Smith did and the Ravens did one year but it is rare. 

[Teddy KGB]

Because he’s a choke artist who owes 80% of his paycheck to Josh Allen 

[Billl]

Elam's lack of playing time the second half of the season is still a mystery to me.  Has there ever been any explanation for it?

[BillsBruce]

Sometimes looking at the small picture can be helpful too.  Didn't a similar defensive scheme sink us in 13 Seconds and the Cincy playoff game?  That shoulda been addressed after 13 Seconds, yet it happened again.  Is it fixed now with Frazier gone?  I hope so.  But now it's ALL on the HC/DC.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

Elam's lack of playing time the second half of the season is still a mystery to me.  Has there ever been any explanation for it?

 

Injuries to Hyde, Poyer, Miller, Rousseau and Oliver changed how they could play defense late in the year.    I presumed they just wanted the veteran zone CB in Dane Jackson opposite the returning but rusty Tre White.   They had to blitz a lot more to get pressure and Hamlin was making a lot of mistakes in coverage compared to Hyde.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

Elam's lack of playing time the second half of the season is still a mystery to me.  Has there ever been any explanation for it?

 

@BADOLBILZ does a good job above. But there was also something off field we were never told. He was made inactive @New England and that wasn't about gameplan. He had done something to rub the coaches up the wrong way.

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

@BADOLBILZ does a good job above. But there was also something off field we were never told. He was made inactive @New England and that wasn't about gameplan. He had done something to rub the coaches up the wrong way.

 

 

Yeah and fwiw........while the name Elam is synonymous with football in Florida it is also that with inexplicably stupid behavior off the field at times.    Abram and Matt were not the best guys outside the locker room.   Fair or not, Kaiir isn't likely to get any slack on behavioral issues.         

[Kwai San]

WTF is with the newbs trying for the LAMP posts????  Sheesh - Hot Seat???  GTFOOH with that nonsense.  You have been a fan how long now?  Take a deep breath, sip a beer or two if you are even of age and RELAX.

[CountDorkula]

On 5/27/2023 at 6:54 PM, GETTOTHE50 said:

McD is a top 10 coach. His in game management still needs to get better, but he keeps the team in check.

 

He lead the team through the shooting.

He lead the team through the blizzard.

He lead the team and saved the NFL from itself with Hamlin.

 

The team still went 13-3 last year with all of that going on.

 

McD is one of the best leaders in the NFL and easily a top 10 coach.

I like Sean McDermott, but the over exaggeration of a shooting in Buffalo happening in the middle of the off-season while most players weren’t even here really having an effect on this team really grinds my gears. The talk about how heroic Sean McDermott was, and that whole situation really really annoys me.
 

Not to mention as sad as it is to say mass shootings happened in this country nearly every single day and a lot of them happen in NFL cities you don’t see other teams using that as an excuse of why they didn’t get to the Super Bowl. 

 

 

[Toyo321]

1 hour ago, Kwai San said:

WTF is with the newbs trying for the LAMP posts????  Sheesh - Hot Seat???  GTFOOH with that nonsense.  You have been a fan how long now?  Take a deep breath, sip a beer or two if you are even of age and RELAX.

Yeah being a fan since the 70's I guess makes me a newb.  GTFOOH yourself.  I have been through more coaches, SB's and non playoff years to tell that this guy doesn't have it.

 

Any one thinking this guy is going to take us to the next level is smoking something more than a Marlboro.

 

This guy is an embarrassment on the side lines clapping his hands like a damn fool, clapping your hands for no reason what so ever is idiotic.

 

He is not a top ten coach and deservingly so.  His playoff, game management, and past playoff results on the field prove it.  "13 Seconds" he should have this tattoo' d on his damn forehead for motivation.

 

He has one of the most talented QB's in the NFL and all he and his coaching staff are doing is just wasting JA17's ability in his prime, and the rest of the teams capabilities because he can't coach situational football.

 

I can't wait to see what you say after the Jets destroy his defensive play calling on opening day. 

 

Then come back here and blame everything and everyone else but McD, because he such an elite coach & def coordinator.

 

Get Real.....

 

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Toyo321

[Augie]

THIS is going well…….

 

 

(In my best Church Lady voice.) 

12 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

Yeah being a fan since the 70's I guess makes me a newb.  GTFOOH yourself.  I have been through more coaches, SB's and non playoff years to tell that this guy doesn't have it.

 

Any one thinking this guy is going to take us to the next level is smoking something more than a Marlboro.

 

This guy is an embarrassment on the side lines clapping his hands like a damn fool, clapping your hands for no reason what so ever is idiotic.

 

He is not a top ten coach and deservingly so.  His playoff, game management, and past playoff results on the field prove it.  "13 Seconds" he should have this tattoo' d on his damn forehead for motivation.

 

He has one of the most talented QB's in the NFL and all he and his coaching staff are doing is just wasting JA17's ability in his prime, and the rest of the teams capabilities because he can't coach situational football.

 

I can't wait to see what you say after the Jets destroy his defensive play calling on opening day. 

 

Then come back here and blame everything and everyone else but McD, because he such an elite coach & def coordinator.

 

Get Real.....

 

 

 

Ummm, do other things bother you like this? I mean, there is help out there. Gotta be a gag. 

[Kwai San]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

THIS is going well…….

 

 

(In my best Church Lady voice.) 

 

Ummm, do other things bother you like this? I mean, there is help out there. Gotta be a gag. 

 

Yes, yes there is.  Need to first admit that problem before it can be fixed......

[Toyo321]

This article says it all and is spot on why McD is not the answer.  He will never change because he refuses to admit & fix his shortcomings as the head coach.

 

https://www.golongtd.com/p/sean-mcdermott-surrenders-again

 

Everything in this article is 100% spot on.

[BillsVet]

On 5/30/2023 at 10:32 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

The Bills?  The Chiefs don't prioritize the secondary anywhere near as much as the Bills.   People forget they let Mathieu AND Charvarius Ward walk last offseason.   They have no money invested there to speak of and only the 1 high pick.   The investments between the 2 teams are quite an extreme contrast.      

 

KC makes substantial changes in an off-season when something hasn't worked. In addition to those 2 safeties leaving in one shot, within the past few off-seasons they (1) re-did 3/5ths of their OL in one off-season, (2) moved on from Hill's contract and replaced with a couple lower-cost options, and before that (3) traded Dee Ford to replace him with Frank Clark when the pass rush was not up to par.  

 

These aren't knee-jerk reactions either, but proactive moves toward continuous improvement.  And these changes have largely worked because they anticipated better where the roster needed to be, not where it was.  For example, I doubt Reid and Veach would have hesitated at all with letting Edmunds walk or continued over-looking the WR position if Davis was their WR2. 

 

I have my doubts about whether McBeane, but mostly McD will ever be a good steward of Josh's talents.  Drafting Kincaid is a step in the right direction though. Going to be interesting how they replace the 2 aging safeties...because more high picks shouldn't always be the default answer like it's been at CB.   

Edited May 31, 2023 by BillsVet

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

KC makes substantial changes in an off-season when something hasn't worked. In addition to those 2 safeties leaving in one shot, within the past few off-seasons they (1) re-did 3/5ths of their OL in one off-season, (2) moved on from Hill's contract and replaced with a couple lower-cost options, and before that (3) traded Dee Ford to replace him with Frank Clark when the pass rush was not up to par.  

 

These aren't knee-jerk reactions either, but proactive moves toward continuous improvement.  And these changes have largely worked because they anticipated better where the roster needed to be, not where it was.  For example, I doubt Reid and Veach would have hesitated at all with letting Edmunds walk or continued over-looking the WR position if Davis was their WR2. 

 

I have my doubts about whether McBeane, but mostly McD will ever be a good steward of Josh's talents.  Drafting Kincaid is a step in the right direction though. Going to be interesting how they replace the 2 aging safeties...because more high picks shouldn't always be the default answer like it's been at CB.   

 

Yeah Reid is a much more seasoned head coach and I think we've seen McBeane learning on the fly.    When Reid was with Philly it wasn't as efficient of a process.  Benefits of experience are evident.

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah Reid is a much more seasoned head coach and I think we've seen McBeane learning on the fly.    When Reid was with Philly it wasn't as efficient of a process.  Benefits of experience are evident.

Mahomes far greater than McNab, that is the main difference between Philly Reid and KC Reid. 

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Yeah Reid is a much more seasoned head coach and I think we've seen McBeane learning on the fly.    When Reid was with Philly it wasn't as efficient of a process.  Benefits of experience are evident.

 

I'm coming around now on the learning curve thing not being as quick with certain NFL HC's and GM's.  Not going to be as quick sometimes as others, that mistakes get made, and taking a step back happens.  Still can't afford a playoff exit like the last 2 seasons.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

Mahomes far greater than McNab, that is the main difference between Philly Reid and KC Reid. 

 

 

I don't think the current Andy Reid would hire a Juan Castillo as a defensive coordinator. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 5/27/2023 at 6:54 PM, GETTOTHE50 said:

McD is a top 10 coach. His in game management still needs to get better, but he keeps the team in check.

 

He lead the team through the shooting.

He lead the team through the blizzard.

He lead the team and saved the NFL from itself with Hamlin.

 

The team still went 13-3 last year with all of that going on.

 

McD is one of the best leaders in the NFL and easily a top 10 coach.

 

Like... the culture shift from loser to winner has been drastic.  Playoffs in 5/6 years.  3 straight division titles.  

 

Andy Reid went 8-8 and then 4-12 before he was let go by Philadelphia.  I would think it'd take 2 non-playoff years, and even then it needs to be like... non-allen injury related.  If we had to tear down to the studs in a year or two (obviously building around allen), i would probably want a culture type coach like this in the building to rebuild.  

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

23 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

KC makes substantial changes in an off-season when something hasn't worked. In addition to those 2 safeties leaving in one shot, within the past few off-seasons they (1) re-did 3/5ths of their OL in one off-season, (2) moved on from Hill's contract and replaced with a couple lower-cost options, and before that (3) traded Dee Ford to replace him with Frank Clark when the pass rush was not up to par.  

 

These aren't knee-jerk reactions either, but proactive moves toward continuous improvement.  And these changes have largely worked because they anticipated better where the roster needed to be, not where it was.  For example, I doubt Reid and Veach would have hesitated at all with letting Edmunds walk or continued over-looking the WR position if Davis was their WR2. 

 

I have my doubts about whether McBeane, but mostly McD will ever be a good steward of Josh's talents.  Drafting Kincaid is a step in the right direction though. Going to be interesting how they replace the 2 aging safeties...because more high picks shouldn't always be the default answer like it's been at CB.   

 

I'm hopeful of a benford switch to safety.  He's usually a sound tackler and has some ball skills, and the size for the position.  The challenge will be run fits and angles.  

[stuvian]

this poll is so much off season click bait. Expectations are justifiably high and Clappy should feel pressure. Pro sports is a results business and his window is past the halfway point. We need to catch KC with a SB hangover this year

[Nextmanup]

On 5/27/2023 at 6:21 PM, Toyo321 said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-bills-sean-mcdermott-head-coach-rankings-andy-reid-bill-belichick#:~:text=NFL Coach Rankings%3A Bills' Sean,22nd among active head coaches.\\

 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/rankings/nfl-head-coaching-rankings-which-teams-coach-reigns-supreme/

 

Sport Illustrated just dumped on him based on The 33rd Team analysis.  I do believe this year he seriously is in the hot seat, now that he to has call the D this year on top of the head coaching duties.

 

I guess we will see.

 

As I have said here for I think 3 years now, he absolutely WILL BE ON THE HOT SEAT at some point....

When that point is, only Terry Pegula can say.

 

And from now until then, a sizable portion of this forum will continue to laugh at such suggestions...they will still be laughing the day his termination is announced, and then say "Wait a minute!  This is nuts!"

 

Here's the thing to remember: just because the Bills have had a long line or HORRIFIC HCs over the years, doesn't mean our own coaching history is the standard of review for McDermott.

 

He needs to perform in comparison to the BEST in the LEAGUE.

 

If he can't, improve him!

 

Of course, how Terry Pegula would do that is another matter. LOL

 

Just let Beane find someone and retain him as GM; that would work..

 

 

[BillsVet]

On 6/1/2023 at 10:34 AM, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

I'm hopeful of a benford switch to safety.  He's usually a sound tackler and has some ball skills, and the size for the position.  The challenge will be run fits and angles.  

 

We're talking strategic and not tactical decision making, i.e. individual personnel moves.  

 

Former 7th round picks moving around in the secondary aren't strategic moves that will improve the W-L record much. 

[Toyo321]

JA17 and Von and everyone else making stupid money on this team should pony up money to for a slush fund to get DeAndre.  Hell if you want a super bowl so badly for you team pony up the Dough!!!  Make it happen this year.

 

Yeah its a business and yeah its a lot of money.  But a super bowl victory is priceless!!!

[RunTheBall]

I’m a McD fan but man if Ross Tucker didn’t make a seriously compelling argument about why McD isn’t a top 15 coach. He did a brilliant job laying out the rationale, mainly McD being consistently out coached in the playoffs. I love McD, I love everything he’s done for the franchise and city. I’m not throwing in the towel in any way but it’s on my radar that there’s a possibility he isn’t the guy to get us to the promised land. I hope I’m wrong because I love McClappy. This is going to be a big year.

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 5/31/2023 at 6:47 AM, Toyo321 said:

This article says it all and is spot on why McD is not the answer.  He will never change because he refuses to admit & fix his shortcomings as the head coach.

 

https://www.golongtd.com/p/sean-mcdermott-surrenders-again

 

Everything in this article is 100% spot on.

Just like our loveable Marv, you can't help but root for McDermott. Great man of integrity and brought this team out of 17 years of useless football.  But just like Marv, Sean gets outcoached and dismantled in the playoffs.  I often wonder what a more successful coach would've done with a 16-0 lead in Houston or with 13 seconds left in KC.  Maybe tell Farwell to stay put as you run out on the field with your ST and tell them EXACTLY what you want them to do.  Last year I'll chalk it up to "Hamlin exhaustion".  But Sean is quickly running out of excuses. Farwell takes the fall in 21, Leslie in 22.  Is it Dorsey's turn in 23?  Josh would have to play out of his mind to cover up some of these game management warts.

Edited June 3, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[PrimeTime101]

Maybe click bait SI should of read this article first.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bills-hc-sean-mcdermott-one-of-nfl-s-more-aggressive-per-football-outsiders/ar-AA1c32KX?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=4d242927eb904f86923bc3c49650c801&ei=9

[OldNMBillsFan]

The Clutch points has him at #5.

 

"For a defensive minded coach in a highly offensively garnered game, McDermott has done wonders in Buffalo. He's done that by putting together good staffs along with a highly-talented roster. Sure, not getting past the divisional round is concerning, but that doesn't change the fact that McDermott has completely changed the face of the AFC East and kept the Bills in constant Super Bowl talks."

 

https://clutchpoints.com/top-10-nfl-head-coaches-entering-2023-season-ranked

Edited June 8, 2023 by OldNMBillsFan