Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[Gugny]

20 minutes ago, mrags said:

They will be contacting people this spring/summer. They won’t be doing tours of the stadium in person. They have a virtual reality tool they will be using for this process. And I’d imagine they will be looking for some kind of deposit, or contract for tix starting jist as quickly. 

Being a Bills fan has become become pretty expensive, eh?

[mrags]

8 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Being a Bills fan has become become pretty expensive, eh?

[SRQ_BillsFan]

As far as I understood they were always supposed to start this year once the snow and ice melted. Open in 2026 but finish in 2027. I have not seen anything that has indicated a change. 
 

It was approved by the NFL owners in March 2022. I don’t see how they could have gotten the bureaucracy completed in a couple of months to start last year, but I could be wrong.  

[PBF81]

On 5/9/2023 at 11:11 PM, mrags said:

They will be contacting people this spring/summer. They won’t be doing tours of the stadium in person. They have a virtual reality tool they will be using for this process. And I’d imagine they will be looking for some kind of deposit, or contract for tix starting jist as quickly. 

 

Speaking of that, I wonder when they'll put out more detailed pics of the stadium.  

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

Exactly what can PSE do to keep this project on time/budget?  It's not clear what their role is in the construction, other than as it's sole future tennant.

[May Day 10]

Hopefully they can put a permanent webcam on the construction like they have done with the construction of some modern venues.  

[Gregg]

Just now, May Day 10 said:

Hopefully they can put a permanent webcam on the construction like they have done with the construction of some modern venues.  

 

They did that when the Islanders arena UBS was being built. It was a live feed 24-7 so you could see the progress being made as it was being built. Sometimes it was down usually because of bad weather but it was up and running most of the time.

[SoCal Deek]

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Exactly what can PSE do to keep this project on time/budget?  It's not clear what their role is in the construction, other than as it's sole future tennant.

As I explained in an earlier response, most public works construction projects have what’s called a ‘liquidated damages’ clause meaning that the contractors pay a stipulated financial penalty for every day the project goes beyond the contract term. That penalty, along with prompt monthly payments from the Owner, and limited Owner directed changes, are what drive the construction team to stay on schedule. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

As I explained in an earlier response, most public works construction projects have what’s called a ‘liquidated damages’ clause meaning that the contractors pay a stipulated financial penalty for every day the project goes beyond the contract term. That penalty, along with prompt monthly payments from the Owner, and limited Owner directed changes, are what drive the construction team to stay on schedule. 

 

 

The Owner is NYS.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The Owner is NYS.

And as I said, the Owner can either be quick or slow to pay each month. And the Owner can either meddle in the day to day construction activity or they can leave the Builder alone. It’s no different from having your kitchen remodeled. The Owner’s participation is critical to keeping things on schedule. 

[Augie]

On 5/9/2023 at 11:11 PM, mrags said:

They will be contacting people this spring/summer. They won’t be doing tours of the stadium in person. They have a virtual reality tool they will be using for this process. And I’d imagine they will be looking for some kind of deposit, or contract for tix starting jist as quickly. 

 

My how things have changed! I vividly remember the trip with my dad to Rich Stadium in 1973 to pick out our seats before it opened. That is a very fond childhood father/son memory. Seeing it for the first time was exciting stuff for this kid. 

[SoCal Deek]

9 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

My how things have changed! I vividly remember the trip with my dad to Rich Stadium in 1973 to pick out our seats before it opened. That is a very fond childhood father/son memory. Seeing it for the first time was exciting stuff for this kid. 

Still vividly remember being stuck in traffic on the thruway bridge, being able to see the lights of the stadium, and listening on the radio while Washington ran the opening kickoff back. Classic! 

[Mr. WEO]

21 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And as I said, the Owner can either be quick or slow to pay each month. And the Owner can either meddle in the day to day construction activity or they can leave the Builder alone. It’s no different from having your kitchen remodeled. The Owner’s participation is critical to keeping things on schedule. 

 

But is the state involved in this way?  Seems they would be the ones riding the builders and project managers, not PSE.  Who has this ultimate authority on this build? 

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Still vividly remember being stuck in traffic on the thruway bridge, being able to see the lights of the stadium, and listening on the radio while Washington ran the opening kickoff back. Classic! 

 

I was still about 10 people back in line trying to get in when the crowd ramped up a giant roar - it was SO EXCITING………..then you could hear a pin drop. Oops!  Great start. 

 

I’m sure Herb Mulkey enjoyed it, anyway. 

[JoPoy88]

4 hours ago, SRQ_BillsFan said:

As far as I understood they were always supposed to start this year once the snow and ice melted. Open in 2026 but finish in 2027. I have not seen anything that has indicated a change. 
 

It was approved by the NFL owners in March 2022. I don’t see how they could have gotten the bureaucracy completed in a couple of months to start last year, but I could be wrong.  

Thank you - This is exactly the correct timeline and always has been. People saying otherwise in this thread are either misremembering or making stuff up.

[PromoTheRobot]

Is it done yet?

 

Is it done yet?

 

Is it done yet?

 

Is it...

[Just Jack]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Is it done yet?

 

Is it done yet?

 

Is it done yet?

 

Is it...

We’re one day closer to the stadium being completed. 

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

We’re one day closer to the stadium being completed. 

If it takes two years to complete that works out to $2,000,000 per day!  Quick, someone go out there and see if they’re keeping up! 

[mrags]

8 hours ago, Augie said:

 

My how things have changed! I vividly remember the trip with my dad to Rich Stadium in 1973 to pick out our seats before it opened. That is a very fond childhood father/son memory. Seeing it for the first time was exciting stuff for this kid. 

Well. Not this time. This time you will show up to an offsite office in the Tony Walker Centre in Williamsville/Snyder and you will go through your designated rep from a 3rd party company, exact routes you will take from your front door to your seat. Picking your seat out of a virtual template. 
 

yeah, I think it kind of stinks too. 

[Punching Bag]

12 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

And as I said, the Owner can either be quick or slow to pay each month. And the Owner can either meddle in the day to day construction activity or they can leave the Builder alone. It’s no different from having your kitchen remodeled. The Owner’s participation is critical to keeping things on schedule. 

 

Sometimes if owner does not "meddle" the work does not get done right.  Our crew did some things right but others were wrong partly due to lack of ability to read English and the team manager and job manager not being there very often.  Each night my wife would find things they missed like driving in bolt but doing it crooked so it did not go in all the way allowing it to tear items put in cupboard.  Most serious issue was the crew was supposed to line them up all the way to ceiling leaving no gap above cabinets but they did it the "easy" way resulting in refrigerator not fitting forcing delay while they did a workaround.  On other had they did a beautiful job on wall tile and it was clear it was a part they liked to do.

[The Wiz]

11 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

If it takes two years to complete that works out to $2,000,000 per day!  Quick, someone go out there and see if they’re keeping up! 

Looking good so far.

 

They're even wearing bills colors.  How cute 

 

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Sometimes if owner does not "meddle" the work does not get done right.  Our crew did some things right but others were wrong partly due to lack of ability to read English and the team manager and job manager not being there very often.  Each night my wife would find things they missed like driving in bolt but doing it crooked so it did not go in all the way allowing it to tear items put in cupboard.  Most serious issue was the crew was supposed to line them up all the way to ceiling leaving no gap above cabinets but they did it the "easy" way resulting in refrigerator not fitting forcing delay while they did a workaround.  On other had they did a beautiful job on wall tile and it was clear it was a part they liked to do.

I hear ya….but meddling is different from observing. Meddling is where you and your wife are standing in the kitchen all day getting in the way, chatting with the workers, or asking them “why are you doing that now?” or “when are you going to do that?” every hour or so. 😉 Believe me when I tell you that even on large public works projects the Owner can hire on-site representatives that are a total pain in the arse. In my experience it all comes down to the people assigned to the project. (Builder, Architect, and Owner)

[Just Jack]

20 hours ago, mrags said:

Well. Not this time. This time you will show up to an offsite office in the Tony Walker Centre in Williamsville/Snyder and you will go through your designated rep from a 3rd party company, exact routes you will take from your front door to your seat. Picking your seat out of a virtual template. 
 

yeah, I think it kind of stinks too. 

 

I don't like it.  I'd rather wait till the stadium at least has the new seats installed, so you can actually sit in them.  

[SoCal Deek]

14 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

I don't like it.  I'd rather wait till the stadium at least has the new seats installed, so you can actually sit in them.  

You’d be amazed at what we can do with VR these days. When you put on the goggles you’ll swear you’re sitting in your seat. You can look in all directions, up and down. It’s incredibly realistic….but nobody’s going to spill their beer on you. 😉

[Just Jack]

52 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You’d be amazed at what we can do with VR these days. When you put on the goggles you’ll swear you’re sitting in your seat. You can look in all directions, up and down. It’s incredibly realistic….but nobody’s going to spill their beer on you. 😉

 

It's not that so much.  There may be little quirks that VR can't pick up.  Like my current seats, I have more leg room than the other rows in my section, because I'm in the last row, and with the way the lower rows curve with the bowl of the stadium, but mine stay back against the suites.  I don't have to stand when someone wants to get out, just pull my legs back.  

[Buffalo Super Fan]

27 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

It's not that so much.  There may be little quirks that VR can't pick up.  Like my current seats, I have more leg room than the other rows in my section, because I'm in the last row, and with the way the lower rows curve with the bowl of the stadium, but mine stay back against the suites.  I don't have to stand when someone wants to get out, just pull my legs back.  

Your going to have more leg room and wider seats because Highmark Stadium wasn’t designed for chair backs they had to get it grandfathered to get the late 1990’s renovation into code if memory serves me. Buffalo Bills fans will get more leg room but most likely will not like the viewing experience further away and divided even more from the players than currently at Highmark Stadium unless you have a ton of money for the seats see Sofi Stadium. That is the Buffalo Bills fans future welcome to Los Angeles Jerry Land Northern New York in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

[mrags]

3 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

I don't like it.  I'd rather wait till the stadium at least has the new seats installed, so you can actually sit in them.  

Just not gonna happen Jack. Be prepared to drive up to Buffalo this summer to virtually “sit” in your seats and drop some money for a PSL 

[Just Jack]

4 minutes ago, mrags said:

Just not gonna happen Jack. Be prepared to drive up to Buffalo this summer to virtually “sit” in your seats and drop some money for a PSL 

 

I'm probably not going to get seats in the new stadium.  Started "shopping" the teams around me, and I can get really good Syracuse football and basketball seats for the same price I'm paying now for Bills tickets.  But who knows, maybe I'll change my mind once I see the new renderings. 

[PBF81]

17 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Looking good so far.

 

They're even wearing bills colors.  How cute 

 

 

Yeah, looks like the typical state job.  

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

9 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

It's not that so much.  There may be little quirks that VR can't pick up.  Like my current seats, I have more leg room than the other rows in my section, because I'm in the last row, and with the way the lower rows curve with the bowl of the stadium, but mine stay back against the suites.  I don't have to stand when someone wants to get out, just pull my legs back.  

I’m not sure you totally grasped my comment. The VR representation of EACH unique seat will be part of the VR goggle experience. Everything. When we have clients put them on the reaction is always the same…”Wow!” or “Holy Sh@t”. Most reach out to see if they can see their actual actual hands and feet and many have to literally sit down just to keep from falling down. It’s something to do with the 3D stereo vision and the fact that the goggles engulf your complete peripheral vision. I’m guessing you won’t want to take them off and let the next person try them. Nobody ever does. 👍

Edited May 13, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[mrags]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not sure you totally grasped my comment. The VR representation of EACH unique seat will be part of the VR goggle experience. Everything. When we have clients put them on the reaction is always the same…”Wow!” or “Holy Sh@t”. Most reach out to see if they can see their actual actual hands and feet and many have to literally sit down just to keep from falling down. It’s something to do with the 3D stereo vision and the fact that the goggles engulf your complete peripheral vision. I’m guessing you won’t want to take them off and let the next person try them. Nobody ever does. 👍

I get all this. I’m not new to the technology available to show you everything. But @Just Jack is right in the argument he’s trying to make. I’ve sat in his exact seats. Along with about 50 other seats in the clubs in the current stadium. I can tell you his seats are extremely more roomy than any other seat in the clubs. 
 

other seats I’ve sat in appear identical. Except the seat sits a little different somehow. I can tell you of the 50 or so seats I sat in at the current stadium, I experienced different types of leg room in almost all of them. Sometimes they are because the seat sits in more of a curve of the section that gives you much more leg room, like @Just Jack. Or because they sit on an odd or even row. For whatever reason, the odd rows and even rows have different leg rooms. It was super annoying and I don’t think VR is going to pick up the extra 1-2” of leg room you have in one seat or another. Maybe it’ll appear to show you the difference, but when you’re a 6’ individual, it’s not going to pick up the seat in front of you digging into your knees. I think I explained that well for Jack. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

I get all this. I’m not new to the technology available to show you everything. But @Just Jack is right in the argument he’s trying to make. I’ve sat in his exact seats. Along with about 50 other seats in the clubs in the current stadium. I can tell you his seats are extremely more roomy than any other seat in the clubs. 
 

other seats I’ve sat in appear identical. Except the seat sits a little different somehow. I can tell you of the 50 or so seats I sat in at the current stadium, I experienced different types of leg room in almost all of them. Sometimes they are because the seat sits in more of a curve of the section that gives you much more leg room, like @Just Jack. Or because they sit on an odd or even row. For whatever reason, the odd rows and even rows have different leg rooms. It was super annoying and I don’t think VR is going to pick up the extra 1-2” of leg room you have in one seat or another. Maybe it’ll appear to show you the difference, but when you’re a 6’ individual, it’s not going to pick up the seat in front of you digging into your knees. I think I explained that well for Jack. 

Thanks....you are correct, it of course won't show you everything....but it is really darn close. Your comment on leg room is a good one. It's critical to the gameday experience. I've mentioned this in previous posts on stadium design and row spacing. I'm going to assume that Populous is going to get it right and pray that their experience will not be overwritten by those trying to squeeze in an additional row. 

[Bubba Gump]

14 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Yeah, looks like the typical state job.  

 

 

 

Was gonna say the same thing. One guy in the hole, 10 guys standing around with their thumbs in their sphincters.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Bubba Gump

[mrags]

17 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks....you are correct, it of course won't show you everything....but it is really darn close. Your comment on leg room is a good one. It's critical to the gameday experience. I've mentioned this in previous posts on stadium design and row spacing. I'm going to assume that Populous is going to get it right and pray that their experience will not be overwritten by those trying to squeeze in an additional row. 

I just had to express my thoughts on it because it was a worry of mine as well as Jacks. More than anything. Think they miss out on an opportunity to really make it memorable for fans being able to go to the new stadium and personally sit in and pick out their seats. Something I was really looking forward to. I quickly realized that it wouldn’t happen with the timeline of the construction and the fact that it’s how society is moving in general. Technology with VR has become so good that it eliminates the need to personal touch. At least to some people or to some business that are more focused on the monetary aspect of it. 

[PBF81]

15 hours ago, I am leaving for good said:

Your going to have more leg room and wider seats because Highmark Stadium wasn’t designed for chair backs they had to get it grandfathered to get the late 1990’s renovation into code if memory serves me. Buffalo Bills fans will get more leg room but most likely will not like the viewing experience further away and divided even more from the players than currently at Highmark Stadium unless you have a ton of money for the seats see Sofi Stadium. 

 

 

Doesn't seem to make a difference in the lower bowl since no one sits throughout the game anyway.  

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

17 hours ago, mrags said:

I just had to express my thoughts on it because it was a worry of mine as well as Jacks. More than anything. Think they miss out on an opportunity to really make it memorable for fans being able to go to the new stadium and personally sit in and pick out their seats. Something I was really looking forward to. I quickly realized that it wouldn’t happen with the timeline of the construction and the fact that it’s how society is moving in general. Technology with VR has become so good that it eliminates the need to personal touch. At least to some people or to some business that are more focused on the monetary aspect of it. 

No worries. In my business the actual opening of the new building has become a bit of an anticlimax.  The VR experiences we can provide to our Clients during design are so realistic that once they stand in the real building the reaction is often something like “so… it looks just like the renderings”. 😉

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

No worries. In my business the actual opening of the new building has become a bit of an anticlimax.  The VR experiences we can provide to our Clients during design are so realistic that once they stand in the real building the reaction is often something like “so… it looks just like the renderings”. 😉

 

I am surprised the way things are going they are not telling clients to do looking from home.

I have had doctors offices tell me they are not seeing clients anymore and doing all appointments remotely and one office called and asked why I did not schedule my annual physical.  My response was "I guess your office forgot to read the email telling you to create account for communication site to get message from me.  Maybe next year you will," and I hung up.  

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

I am surprised the way things are going they are not telling clients to do looking from home.

I have had doctors offices tell me they are not seeing clients anymore and doing all appointments remotely and one office called and asked why I did not schedule my annual physical.  My response was "I guess your office forgot to read the email telling you to create account for communication site to get message from me.  Maybe next year you will," and I hung up.  

 

Do they charge the same on the remote calls?

 

 

[SoMAn]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

If you don't follow football, even casually, you won't know the logos. 

I’ve never followed baseball, but I wouldn’t have any trouble identifying most of the logos simply by being aware of American cultural events that I’d have to be a hermit and avoid all media for my entire existence.

[SoCal Deek]

6 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

I am surprised the way things are going they are not telling clients to do looking from home.

I have had doctors offices tell me they are not seeing clients anymore and doing all appointments remotely and one office called and asked why I did not schedule my annual physical.  My response was "I guess your office forgot to read the email telling you to create account for communication site to get message from me.  Maybe next year you will," and I hung up.  

We’re actually able to email a link to the model and the Client can look around the model from their cellphone. But, they cannot walk around inside it. They can just see a complete 3D image of a specific room. So in the case of the new stadium, the Bills could send you a 3D image from a particular seat, and you could look all around in every direction from you phone. It’s nowhere near as realistic of an experience as wearing the goggles.