Sean McDermott excited about calling the Defense

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, colin said:

 

he did it once that was disclosed publicly.

 

I think he did it a few times.  the wind game in 2021 hosting NE (thursday night, monday?  it was prime time).  i remember the camera being close to our players and coach on the sidelines, and mcd looked like he was screaming and telling guys what they needed to do (after missed gaps lead to a longish touchdown).  after that the d stiffened up some and we had a shot late in the game.

 

i think he's done it a few times and what's more i think it lead to pretty immediate positive results. 

First of all the media grilled McDermott when that happened… Because it was obvious to see

 

Second, The media never grilled MacDermot on it again… Because it didn’t happen

 

You can’t pull playcalling duties for your coordinator without The world knowing… People knew the second it happened against San Diego

 

And of course McDermott is always screaming and yelling at players he’s the head coach

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

If the only evidence you will accept is McDermott admitting it, then yes there is only evidence of 1 game.

No the evidence is that everybody in the stadium saw it… There was threads on here the second it happened

 

 

The media saw it and grilled McDermitt after the game

 

None of that has ever happened again

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He wasn't fired. He did step away. But he doesn't need to have been fired for your point to be true. When a HC takes over play calling it is usually make or break in whatever way it comes about. 

 

Correct. But some of them will tell you because they saw McDermott holding a call sheet and talking into the headset when the Bills were on defense that he did it multiple times. 

Yeah like every head coach doesn’t have a call sheet lol

 

It was clear as day when it happened versus San Diego and everybody in Buffalo

 

So it’s pretty clear that it didn’t happen again lol

 

 

 

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

So it’s pretty clear that it didn’t happen again lol

 

It’s been clear several times. You not seeing it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

 

In several games, McD has the defense play sheet in his hand and is talking into his head set at pivotal moments of the game. Likely talking to Frazier who then calls the play into the team, ala Reid and Bienemy.

 

90% of the time, McD does not have the play sheet out, nor is he talking into the headset with the play sheet over his mouth. So it’s pretty noticeable when he does do it.

 

But McD realized that after the San Diego game, when he got a lot of flack from the media (including Tony Dungy), for taking over the play calling, he was never going to admit it again.

 

Which gives you plausible deniability.

 

But no. McD absolutely called plays several times. Whether you and Gunner want to admit or not.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Einstein

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It’s been clear several times. You not seeing it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

 

In several games, McD had the defense play sheet was talking into his head set at pivotal moments of the game.

 

90% of the time, McD does not have the play sheet out, nor is he talking into the headsets with the play sheet over his mouth.

 

But McD realized that after the San Diego game, when he got a lot of flack from the media (including Tony Dungy), for taking over the play calling, he was never going to admit it again.

 

Which gives you plausible deniability.

 

But no. McD absolutely called plays several times.

I’ve had season tickets for years with great views of McDermott 

 

It was plain as day when he called the plays… Hence why people asked him …. And he actually didn’t get a lot of flak… McDermott brushed it off and says it happens

 

 

Nobody’s asked him again because it hasn’t happened… Jerry Sullivan would ask

 

You’re crazy if you think the lowbrow Buffalo media would not ask that question

Edited April 20, 2023 by Buffalo716

[aristocrat]

We’ve got ourselves a good old fashioned conspiracy. 

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

If the only evidence you will accept is McDermott admitting it, then yes there is only evidence of 1 game.

 

No the only evidence I will accept is actual evidence. I know we are in a post-truth age but the meaning of the word evidence hasn't changed. What you have is conjecture based on your interpretation of a tv shot. That, I'm afraid, is not evidence.

[Einstein]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

I’ve had season tickets for years with great views of McDermott 

 

It was plain as day when he called the plays… Hence why people made a big deal out of it

 

Nobody’s asked him again because it hasn’t happened

 

They’ve asked him more than once lol.

 

Your Argument: “trust me bro”

 

No, I don’t trust you. I trust my eyes. Which has a better view of McD on TV than you have at the stadium.

 

90% of the season, there is no play sheet in his hands with him covering his mouth and talking.

 

But at certain times, there are. And it’s clear as day he is calling the plays.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It’s been clear several times. You not seeing it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

 

In several games, McD has the defense play sheet in his hand and is talking into his head set at pivotal moments of the game. Likely talking to Frazier who then calls the play into the team, ala Reid and Bienemy.

 

90% of the time, McD does not have the play sheet out, nor is he talking into the headset with the play sheet over his mouth. So it’s pretty noticeable when he does do it.

 

But McD realized that after the San Diego game, when he got a lot of flack from the media (including Tony Dungy), for taking over the play calling, he was never going to admit it again.

 

Which gives you plausible deniability.

 

But no. McD absolutely called plays several times. Whether you and Gunner want to admit or not.

 

 

 

Absolute, utter nonsense. 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No the only evidence I will accept is actual evidence. I know we are in a post-truth age but the meaning of the word evidence hasn't changed. What you have is conjecture based on your interpretation of a tv shot. That, I'm afraid, is not evidence.

 

So yes, the only evidence you’ll accept is McDermott admitting.

Which will never happen again after the media flack he got for doing it the first time.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

They’ve asked him more than once lol.

 

Your Argument: “trust me bro”

 

No, I don’t trust you. I trust my eyes. Which has a better view of McD on TV than you have at the stadium.

 

90% of the season, there is no play sheet in his hands with him covering his mouth and talking.

 

But at certain times, there are. And it’s clear as day he is calling the plays.

 

No it isn't. That is such an incredibly flawed leap in logic as to be utterly ridiculous. Of course McDermott has the call sheet. Of course he looks at it. Like every Head Coach ever. He may even overrule some play calls - again, like every Head Coach ever. But he has only taken over playcalling once.

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

So yes, the only evidence you’ll accept is McDermott admitting.

Which will never happen again after the media flack he got for doing it the first time.

 

No I'll accept evidence. You have none. 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No it isn't. That is such an incredibly flawed leap in logic as to be utterly ridiculous.

 

No more flawed than “McDermott only admitted it once and therefore it must be once”. 

 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

Of course McDermott has the call sheet. Of course he looks at it. Like every Head Coach ever.

 

Except the majority of the time, he is NOT looking at it. Or putting it over his mouth to talk into the headset. That’s why it’s so odd when he DOES do that. It’s a big difference from his normal. It’s obvious. The camera goes to him. Fans key in on it, because it’s abnormal for him.

 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

No I'll accept evidence

 

You seem to be confusing “evidence” with “absolute proof”. Evidence is just anything that can be used to point to a hypothesis. Entire cases have been won and lost based on circumstantial evidence, which is evidence that simply shows other facts (like McDermott rarely holding the play sheet over his mouth and talking) but does not in itself prove the hypothesis.

[Thrivefourfive]

This is too much involvement for the HC. I just can’t believe he’s doing this. It wreaks of desperation, ultimatums, ego.. This sort of thing worries me. One guy doing two guys’ jobs is not good to me. 

[teef]

This is outstanding. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

No more flawed than “McDermott only admitted it once and therefore it must be once”. 

 

 

Except the majority of the time, he is NOT looking at it. Or putting it over his mouth to talk into the headset. That’s why it’s so odd when he DOES do that. It’s a big difference from his normal. It’s obvious. The camera goes to him. Fans key in on it, because it’s abnormal for him.

 

 

You seem to be confusing “evidence” with “absolute proof”. Evidence is just anything that can be used to point to a hypothesis. Entire cases have been won and lost based on circumstantial evidence, which is evidence that simply shows other facts (like McDermott rarely holding the play sheet over his mouth and talking) but does not in itself prove the hypothesis.

 

No I am not. You have no evidence. Watch every other Head Coach in the NFL with the call sheet. Every single one. Then tell me there is anything out of the ordinary with McDermott. Then and ONLY then do you even have circumstantial evidence. 

 

You don't know what you're talking about.

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

This is outstanding. 

I wish @Einstein's Dog would get involved, because I am thinking of writing a groundbreaking monograph on how it was really Einstein's wire fox terrier Chico that wrote the paper on general relativity.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Dr. Who

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, teef said:

This is outstanding. 

 

I hope I don't put Einstein over the edge with this....

 

🤣

Edited April 20, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

No more flawed than “McDermott only admitted it once and therefore it must be once”. 

 

 

Except the majority of the time, he is NOT looking at it. Or putting it over his mouth to talk into the headset. That’s why it’s so odd when he DOES do that. It’s a big difference from his normal. It’s obvious. The camera goes to him. Fans key in on it, because it’s abnormal for him.

 

 

You seem to be confusing “evidence” with “absolute proof”. Evidence is just anything that can be used to point to a hypothesis. Entire cases have been won and lost based on circumstantial evidence, which is evidence that simply shows other facts (like McDermott rarely holding the play sheet over his mouth and talking) but does not in itself prove the hypothesis.

You keep refusing to look at the point that the entire Buffalo media grilled him on it… asked what happened 

 

You forget that the second what happened there was threads here on it…

 

Why Mr. Einstein… Has the press never asked him about it again?

 

Because it didn’t happen… That’s the first question you ask when you see somebody else calling plays

[Aussie Joe]

17 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

So yes, the only evidence you’ll accept is McDermott admitting.

Which will never happen again after the media flack he got for doing it the first time.

What media flack did he get?

 

Couldnt find much on google,

 

There a link here from the Buffalo News which is blocked…all I can read is the headline that says …Tony Dungy was a “ little surprised “.. 

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/dungy-little-surprised-mcdermott-took-over-play-calling-in-bills-chargers-game/article_ed6478f0-f537-5bcc-9ff0-9725f5fe5944.html

 

[Malazan]

3 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

I'm not liking it at all.  McD's in-game decision making has always been a bit suspect, so I don't like him taking on more responsibilities.  Like the pilots on Air Disasters that crash due to task saturation. 

 

If he's already 'bad' at it and hasn't shown "adequacy" over several years, what leads you to believe that he'd be better at it this upcoming season by continuing to not take on more responsibilities?

[Buffalo716]

59 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

What media flack did he get?

 

Couldnt find much on google,

 

There a link here from the Buffalo News which is blocked…all I can read is the headline that says …Tony Dungy was a “ little surprised “.. 

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/dungy-little-surprised-mcdermott-took-over-play-calling-in-bills-chargers-game/article_ed6478f0-f537-5bcc-9ff0-9725f5fe5944.html

 

He Spouts his opinion which can be refuted 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

I wish @Einstein's Dog would get involved, because I am thinking of writing a groundbreaking monograph on how it was really Einstein's wire fox terrier Chico that wrote the paper on general relativity.

 

🥰🥰🥰

[PrimeTime101]

20 hours ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

Anyone's guess about what exactly went down, but from what was made public it certainly seemed it was handled very respectfully by Bills. 

I would say, how our DC handled it was very good. If the Bills handled it with respect, they would of let him go earlier while other teams were looking for DC's of their own. By the time he left, the teams that needed a DC were slim.

[Beck Water]

12 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I would say, how our DC handled it was very good. If the Bills handled it with respect, they would of let him go earlier while other teams were looking for DC's of their own. By the time he left, the teams that needed a DC were slim.

 

If Frazier had wanted to make a lateral move to a DC position on a different team, the Bills almost 100% would have released him from his contract to pursue that.
 

Therefore, I think it can be concluded with pretty high certainty, that a lateral move to DC was NOT what Frazier wanted to happen.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Beck Water

[Chaos]

23 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Do you think Chiefs fans are concerned with Andy Reid calling offensive plays and acting as HC? We might be in good shape. 

The chiefs had an OC.  The Bills do not have a DC.  McDermott is not simply calling plays.

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I am not. You have no evidence. Watch every other Head Coach in the NFL with the call sheet. Every single one. Then tell me there is anything out of the ordinary with McDermott. Then and ONLY then do you even have circumstantial evidence. 

 

You don't know what you're talking about.

You don't find the evidence sufficient to prove a claim. Which is fine. But it is evidence.  Just not proof. 

[Einstein]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I am not. You have no evidence. Watch every other Head Coach in the NFL with the call sheet. Every single one. Then tell me there is anything out of the ordinary with McDermott. Then and ONLY then do you even have circumstantial evidence. 

 

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

I don’t need to watch every other NFL coach to know what’s normal for McDermott.

 

McDermott spends most of the season with his hands on his hips or clapping. He rarely ever has a play sheet in his hand. When he does, it is RARE. Unusual. Strange. Not normal.

 

What another coach does is irrelevant to what is unusual for McDermott.

 

It is even more unusual for McDermott to have that play sheet up around his mouth, as he presumably calls plays.

 

Circumstantial evidence is evidence.

[BringBackFergy]

7 minutes ago, Chaos said:

The chiefs had an OC.  The Bills do not have a DC.  McDermott is not simply calling plays.

 

Then why the F#*! does Andy Reid have a monstrous laminated poster in his hand for the past four years. Eric Bienemie was OC in name only. Every Chiefs player has confirmed Andy was calling plays. You’re wayyyy off.

[Freddie's Dead]

3 hours ago, Malazan said:

 

If he's already 'bad' at it and hasn't shown "adequacy" over several years, what leads you to believe that he'd be better at it this upcoming season by continuing to not take on more responsibilities?

 

Nothing.  I'm already on record saying that McD will never get us the Lombardi.  He proved that with 13 seconds.  He didn't even have a time pressure excuse because he called timeout before both plays and still choked.  I'll be more than happy to be wrong on this one.

[Einstein]

21 minutes ago, Chaos said:

But it is evidence.  Just not proof. 

 

He’s my favorite poster on this forum but he truly does not appear to understand the difference between “evidence” and “proof”.

 

Which is funny because his only evidence isn’t proof either :).

[Einstein]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Why Mr. Einstein… Has the press never asked him about it again?

 

they have…

 

Several times since then.

 

I especially remember in 2020 (or 2021?) because McD was asked and he responded by saying that he’s not going to answer those type of questions anymore. Probably because of the flack he got when he answered honestly in 2018.

 

I do love how your go-to proof was “the pressure doesn’t ask me about it” though, lol.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Einstein

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

If Frazier had wanted to make a lateral move to a DC position on a different team, the Bills almost 100% would have released him from his contract to pursue that.
 

Therefore, I think it can be concluded with pretty high certainty, that a lateral move to DC was NOT what Frazier wanted to happen.

Lot's of assumptions being made here... Want to know what I think? and yes  this is an assumption as well. I think lots of fans wanted our HC to take more accountability for something rather than nothing. And offensive HC takes bottom line accountability for his Offense and vice versa. I think when the "brass" finally decided to make a change that McD would agree with, it was to late.

 

I also feel as many should. If your a defensive minded HC.. and especially if your a defensive minded HC you should hold yourself more accountable for your defense.. No different than Rex Ryan did accept Rex screwed this defense up... The difference is Rex took accountability of it asap as where the Accountability lied with McD in my opinion way to late. 

 

So did everyone as a whole handle things in a respectful manner? oh yea... but If Frazier would of been "moved on" cough.. "a year break" cough... earlier.. I believe he would be with another team right now under another HC.. 1000%

 

Just remember.. we are both making a ton of assumptions here... Neither of us know the true facts here and likely never will unless its leaked years from now. 

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Uh, they have…

 

Several times since then.

 

I especially remember in 2020 (or 2021?) because McD was asked and he responded by saying that he’s not going to answer those type of questions anymore. Probably because of the flack he got when he answered honestly in 2018.

 

I do love how your go-to proof was “the pressure doesn’t ask me about it” though, lol.

Apparently you’re the smartest guy in the world than Einstein

 

Because… 70,000 people in the stadium that day saw it… Made threads on it

 

He got grilled in the press

 

And apparently nobody besides you has ever seen it again

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

And apparently nobody besides you has ever seen it again

 

The media has asked him about it since. So they’ve seen it.

And if you go on Twitter and search, thousands of other fans have seen it.

 

I think you meant to say; “Well, I didn’t see it!”

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The media has asked him about it since. So they’ve seen it.

And if you go on Twitter and search, thousands of other fans have seen it.

 

I think you meant to say; “Well, I didn’t see it!”

Trust me I have a great eye and saw it  the day it happened

 

And I watch every press conference religiously and I don’t remember him ever being asked again… If you do bring up the clip and I’ll agree that he was asked multiple times over the years 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Buffalo Super Fan]

On 4/19/2023 at 9:10 PM, Doc said:

I have little doubt that they wanted to keep Frazier as a coach, but strip him of play-calling duties.  Hence he left.

Which is ridiculous no one with any self respect and pride is going to stay under those conditions if that was the case who knows. What do Buffalo Bills fans expect Sean McDermott to say he wasn’t looking forward to calling defensive plays when it was most likely his idea to begin with to pass the Buck on past failure anyone but himself ridiculous. We all are going to find out as Buffalo Bills fans what Sean McDermott is made of as a head coach this season. 

[Malazan]

4 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Nothing.  I'm already on record saying that McD will never get us the Lombardi.  He proved that with 13 seconds.  He didn't even have a time pressure excuse because he called timeout before both plays and still choked.  I'll be more than happy to be wrong on this one.

 

That doesn't answer the question about why you think calling plays is going to make a difference in something you believe him to already be bad at when he's not calling plays.. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Chaos said:

 

You don't find the evidence sufficient to prove a claim. Which is fine. But it is evidence.  Just not proof. 

 

What Einstein has "sometimes when camera is on McDermott he is holding the call sheet and talking into the headset" doesn't even make the standard of evidence, let alone proof. 

 

I have explained why and what is going on in those scenarios. It isn't what he thinks. It is evidence of something. Just not of McDermott having taken over playcalling. 

[Richard Noggin]

4 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Lot's of assumptions being made here... Want to know what I think? and yes  this is an assumption as well. I think lots of fans wanted our HC to take more accountability for something rather than nothing. And offensive HC takes bottom line accountability for his Offense and vice versa. I think when the "brass" finally decided to make a change that McD would agree with, it was to late.

 

I also feel as many should. If your a defensive minded HC.. and especially if your a defensive minded HC you should hold yourself more accountable for your defense.. No different than Rex Ryan did accept Rex screwed this defense up... The difference is Rex took accountability of it asap as where the Accountability lied with McD in my opinion way to late. 

 

So did everyone as a whole handle things in a respectful manner? oh yea... but If Frazier would of been "moved on" cough.. "a year break" cough... earlier.. I believe he would be with another team right now under another HC.. 1000%

 

Just remember.. we are both making a ton of assumptions here... Neither of us know the true facts here and likely never will unless its leaked years from now. 

 

As to the bolded: are you referencing a specific defensive failure under Rex that he took ownership of? Or a more general, post-tenure mea culpa? I'm not immediately remembering either scenario transpiring, save maybe for some off-handed, somewhat disingenuous self-deprecation (impossible to prove or defend, this subjective perception).  

 

I remember Rex being in love with his own system above all else. DID he ever admit that the evolution of the offensive game, especially its speed and the proliferation of motion-heavy, option-heavy spread attacks, essentially rendered his incredibly complex, pre-snap communication and check-based defensive schemes impossible to execute consistently? The Ryan boys weren't diligent and dedicated enough to keep up with the league's ambitious offensive minds. 

 

Did he openly wrestle with this during his tenure? 

[PrimeTime101]

11 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

As to the bolded: are you referencing a specific defensive failure under Rex that he took ownership of? Or a more general, post-tenure mea culpa? I'm not immediately remembering either scenario transpiring, save maybe for some off-handed, somewhat disingenuous self-deprecation (impossible to prove or defend, this subjective perception).  

 

I remember Rex being in love with his own system above all else. DID he ever admit that the evolution of the offensive game, especially its speed and the proliferation of motion-heavy, option-heavy spread attacks, essentially rendered his incredibly complex, pre-snap communication and check-based defensive schemes impossible to execute consistently? The Ryan boys weren't diligent and dedicated enough to keep up with the league's ambitious offensive minds. 

 

Did he openly wrestle with this during his tenure? 

man.. lets stick to one topic. Defense.  And yes. The complete change of the defense was on Rex and he admitted so day one.  Rex completely redesigned the defense day one and the scheme. that was not the DC scheme it was Rex's 

[Richard Noggin]

4 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

man.. lets stick to one topic. Defense.  And yes. The complete change of the defense was on Rex and he admitted so day one.  Rex completely redesigned the defense day one and the scheme. that was not the DC scheme it was Rex's 

 

He didn't take accountability if he repeatedly stuck with that overly complex scheme that his players couldn't execute in a changing NFL.

 

So then let's not use him as some more accountable alternative to McDermott (as per your claim I was replying to)?

 

I'm excited to finally see in Buffalo a definitively McDermott-designed, -installed, and -called defensive attack. So maybe we agree about that the clarifying lack of ambiguity re: who to blame for 2023's defensive performances. 

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

man.. lets stick to one topic. Defense.  And yes. The complete change of the defense was on Rex and he admitted so day one.  Rex completely redesigned the defense day one and the scheme. that was not the DC scheme it was Rex's 

 

But he didn't accept blame when it failed. Indeed he loaded more and more of it onto the players. He blamed and fired Donnie Henderson. He blamed Doug Whaley. He even ended up turning on Dennis Thurman after the "10 men on the field debacle" vs Miami. Rex never blamed himself. Not ever. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

10 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Then why the F#*! does Andy Reid have a monstrous laminated poster in his hand for the past four years. Eric Bienemie was OC in name only. Every Chiefs player has confirmed Andy was calling plays. You’re wayyyy off.

I think what he means is the the Chiefs OC installs the game plan and meets with the offense during the week. While Reid calls the plays he has an OC to help design game plan and install it during the week.

McDermott doesn't have a DC. But I would say it is safe to assume the guy that was brought in as a special assistant for defense will do that. Im too lazy to look up his name. And he will be the guy on the sideline talking to the players about what they are seeing and any ingame adjustments.