HappyDays Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 7 hours ago, Beck Water said: You and I have discussed this before, I believe - a big factor in our WR and RB not having good YAC has been Josh Allen hanging onto the ball waiting for something downfield to open up, then dumping off when it's clear to both him AND the defense there's no alternative so they close quickly. He didn't have this issue when he had Cole Beasley in his prime in 2020. Last year when he had clumsy McKenzie and rookie Shakir I don't think he trusted them to nearly the same level. The hope is that getting him a slot option he can trust, and emphasizing more quick passing concepts in the scheme, will get our offense into a better rhythm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 15 minutes ago, BillzFreak said: Difference here is that he is 25. He isn't coming here to be a "star". He is bringing something this Bills team is lacking and that is speed. Yes it's a risky signing with his injury history but that's why we have to wait and see what he can provide on the field. For people to already come to the conclusion he will suck here, before he ever even plays a down for the Bills is very ridiculous. Being skeptical is fine but already stamping it as him being bad as fact is not the way to go about it imo. 14 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: To me it's a solid under the radar signing. He doesn't need to be the #1. Just get some YAC and be an easy button pass for Josh. He's got the speed and separation skills to do just that. He's a puzzle piece we need and lacked this past season. No let's get some more OL in the draft and WR2. Concern is the $ and how this impacts other signings. We paid him like he is expected to contribute. He had a moderate role in 2021 but other than that not a lot. If it’s only for special times then it is even more concerning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 Could've had Renfrow with that money. Thielen also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 30 minutes ago, ngbills said: Concern is the $ and how this impacts other signings. We paid him like he is expected to contribute. He had a moderate role in 2021 but other than that not a lot. If it’s only for special times then it is even more concerning. It’s not. The contract breakdown has bonuses built in for receptions, yards and TD’s etc. Its only 1.2M more of a cap hit than McKenzie. If that’s who he’s replacing, it’s worth 1M to take a shot on a guy who’s electric when healthy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 10 hours ago, Airseven said: Don’t like that contract for what will become a 5’ 6 return specialist. Also, shouldn’t this board be upset about his arrest a year ago? Spoken like the KC fan you are 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 51 minutes ago, ngbills said: Concern is the $ and how this impacts other signings. We paid him like he is expected to contribute. He had a moderate role in 2021 but other than that not a lot. If it’s only for special times then it is even more concerning. A bigger concern is suffering a other year of MacKenzie in the slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMafia716ix Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 Another gadget player. Based on his production, the contract doesn’t make any sense. I guess they banking on him having a breakout season. I hope so but very puzzling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 Buffalo had competition for Harty. Another team offered more guaranteed money than Buffalo, but he chose Buffalo because he thought his skill set was a better fit. He's a pro bowl kick returner and while hedidn't have a lot of opportunity catching passes, he did well with the opportunities he had. There is always a risk when you sign a relatively untested younger player to a contract of more than one year, but when a player has talent, there is going to be competition from other teams. GMs are paid to gamble at least some of the time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 hours ago, BillzFreak said: Difference here is that he is 25. He isn't coming here to be a "star". He is bringing something this Bills team is lacking and that is speed. Yes it's a risky signing with his injury history but that's why we have to wait and see what he can provide on the field. For people to already come to the conclusion he will suck here, before he ever even plays a down for the Bills is very ridiculous. Being skeptical is fine but already stamping it as him being bad as fact is not the way to go about it imo. It goes both ways here. Many are acting like he's the new Tyreke Hill while others think he's just a gadget guy who will not perform well. Truthfully, no one really knows how he will pan out. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 If Deonte can just randomly change his last name then I think Josh Allen should now be known as Josh Alien. 😃 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Malazan said: I hope this guy is better at hanging onto Josh Allen's balls than the other guys are.. I couldn't have written this better 😎 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 hours ago, HappyDays said: He didn't have this issue when he had Cole Beasley in his prime in 2020. Last year when he had clumsy McKenzie and rookie Shakir I don't think he trusted them to nearly the same level. The hope is that getting him a slot option he can trust, and emphasizing more quick passing concepts in the scheme, will get our offense into a better rhythm. I think there might be two issues here that you're mixing? Beasley was the master of diagnosing zone coverage and choosing a short to intermediate option route that would dissect it. Josh would throw to where he expected Beasley to be based on his own diagnosis, and trust him to be there and catch it (or at least prevent a pick). It's very clear that Josh did not trust McKenzie in the same way, and Shakir - ah nope. So those plays fell out of the Bills playbook. Josh has always (including with Beasley here) had issues taking the checkdown. These are paradoxically some of the throws that are hardest for him to make, so he tends to make a throw the receiver can't catch in stride but must go down or jump for, limiting YAC. But he also seems to hate like hell to make a quick decision to take a checkdown when he might be able to scramble around and find some chunk plays downfield. As a result, there are plays where an open checkdown receiver is all alone and getting no attention whatsoever from the D - but by the time Josh decides nothing else is doing, the vultures have closed, also limiting YAC. 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 hours ago, BillzFreak said: Difference here is that he is 25. He isn't coming here to be a "star". He is bringing something this Bills team is lacking and that is speed. Yes it's a risky signing with his injury history but that's why we have to wait and see what he can provide on the field. For people to already come to the conclusion he will suck here, before he ever even plays a down for the Bills is very ridiculous. Being skeptical is fine but already stamping it as him being bad as fact is not the way to go about it imo. He's also 5'6" 170 which means he's very small by NFL standards. Can you name a successful modern day WR with that size? Point being the success rate by metrics alone is very slim. We have a 4 year NFL data record that has more questions than answers. Do you have confidence that Dorsey can use his skills acvordingly? Look at how they used Hines and literally refused to throw the ball to Cook. Not to mention McKenzie's skill set was under utilized. All this doesn't mean it's a bad move. The money is pretty cheap now that the details are out. He does fill a speed need. I get the move but I remain skeptical. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 1 minute ago, newcam2012 said: He's also 5'6" 170 which means he's very small by NFL standards. Can you name a successful modern day WR with that size? Point being the success rate by metrics alone is very slim. We have a 4 year NFL data record that has more questions than answers. Do you have confidence that Dorsey can use his skills acvordingly? Look at how they used Hines and literally refused to throw the ball to Cook. Not to mention McKenzie's skill set was under utilized. All this doesn't mean it's a bad move. The money is pretty cheap now that the details are out. He does fill a speed need. I get the move but I remain skeptical. Define successful NFL starter successful or NFL star successful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 27 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Define successful NFL starter successful or NFL star successful He just has to contribute, open up the field for others, make a big play here and there. The Bills need speed and big play guys who can stretch the field. The pick up makes sense. The Bills are not expecting him to be the next Tyreke. My reservation is that he's had 4 years to prove himself with limited success. Hoping the for in Buffalo is better. That could lead to more success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: He just has to contribute, open up the field for others, make a big play here and there. The Bills need speed and big play guys who can stretch the field. The pick up makes sense. The Bills are not expecting him to be the next Tyreke. My reservation is that he's had 4 years to prove himself with limited success. Hoping the for in Buffalo is better. That could lead to more success. So based on your expectations, I think it would be fairly easy for him to meet them, provided that he stays healthy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 10 hours ago, Einstein said: Wow. Some of the Saints fans (his former team) are obliterating this signing. Here are the comments from the Saints forum: "Unfortunately, it seems Deontay’s small body may not be able to consistently endure full seasons at the pro level. He also seemed zoned out last season." - breesgirl "Already missed 23 games in 4 years due to injury and 3 to suspension. Not to mention the 9 fumbles in the games he did play. Buffalo did us a favor, we will break a table for em." - 44slayer "My gosh, you can’t make these contracts up. The money teams are throwing at former Saints players is ridiculous. He basically won the lottery. I don’t think any other team except for the Bills were going to offer him that kind of money. He is an injury waiting to happen just because of his small stature." - dvdman "Expensive guy for the rehab room" - dataussie "He will probably fit in really well there. He always seemed to have some potential that wasn't fully unlocked here and Shaheed just made him expendable. Wish him well" - t-rex23 "Massive overpay" - Beerbaron "They can have him" - Rajincajun83 "Won't miss this guy." Que Que 6 "Small school KR/PR guys are a dime a dozen as UDFAs, next." - Seafog "The Bills overpaid for Harty just like the Saints did for Peat" - fishing4food "He wasn't playing even when healthy last year was he? I don't get the big money on this one." - Elvis "That is an expensive addition to their Tub Club. Glad we moved on from him, we dont need inactive all stars." - 44slayer "He showed up in the 2019 and 2020 playoffs. But as the TB game showed in 2020, he could be a big asset when healthy (although he looked shaky last year even before he got hurt) but he was prone to injuries." - lordpoopington "Loved him whole here and made a lot of plays for us. I wish him well" - tim martin "Agreed. I know players are worth whatever anyone is willing to pay them, but this seems like a massive overpay for someone that's barely on the field and when he is, the impact is minimal outside of a VERY small handful of highlight plays." - saintaholic "They must really need a PR/KR/WR4 type. That’s a ridiculous amount for him. Glad he got paid. Even happier my Saints didn’t write that check. Good luck to him, though." - breesgirl "Shame, he was great here and has been my favourite return man by far as a Saint. Crazy to see how many guys are signing away from us for big money!" - Cowtownsaint "If he can stay healthy in Buffalo, it's a great offense for him to be in. A ton of speed and QB with an absolute cannon in Allen." - belowzero "I wish him well, but players of his stature rarely have long careers in the NFL…." - sfidc3 "Hes gonna check out on them too." - shortfuzed9 "Allen has an arm. He will hit Harty with some deep shots and he will be their returner. If he's healthy and his head is in a good place, this will be a good fit for him." - MV2 "Nice for him ,that's a lot of $ But i'd rather keep Shaheed than Harty" - killerdescore "We have a bigger and cheaper and younger version of him in Shaheed... So he was never coming back here anyway... I wish him well in Buffalo... He was a good player here." - infoman link First thing I'll say is that a lot of people you quoted there are clearly responding to the initial eye-popping numbers that were reported. We now know those numbers were agent-driven. If these posters knew he was only going to count $3.7 million against the cap I wonder if that would affect their opinion. More importantly, one thing not mentioned in any of the negative posts is his play. It's the same negative mentioned over and over - his injury history. Everyone seems to agree that they liked him a lot as a player. The big IF is his health. Beane is taking a swing with this signing. There's a chance he blows up and we get a highly productive slot receiver with explosive traits at an insanely good value. There's a chance he suffers a lower leg injury early in the season and never finds a consistent rhythm in the offense. The upside is high production at a low cost, the downside is a waste of $3.7 million against the cap this year and $1.4 million dead cap in 2024. I'm good with that risk/reward trade off. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: First thing I'll say is that a lot of people you quoted there are clearly responding to the initial eye-popping numbers that were reported. We now know those numbers were agent-driven. If these posters knew he was only going to count $3.7 million against the cap I wonder if that would affect their opinion. More importantly, one thing not mentioned in any of the negative posts is his play. It's the same negative mentioned over and over - his injury history. Everyone seems to agree that they liked him a lot as a player. The big IF is his health. Beane is taking a swing with this signing. There's a chance he blows up and we get a highly productive slot receiver with explosive traits at an insanely good value. There's a chance he suffers a lower leg injury early in the season and never finds a consistent rhythm in the offense. The upside is high production at a low cost, the downside is a waste of $3.7 million against the cap this year and $1.4 million dead cap in 2024. I'm good with that risk/reward trade off. Doesn’t sound like they saw him play much since he was injured a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, Einstein said: Doesn’t sound like they saw him play much since he was injured a lot. Thanks for the thoughtful response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 8 minutes ago, Einstein said: Doesn’t sound like they saw him play much since he was injured a lot. This is a case where the absence definitely does not make the heart grow fonder. I think him missing nearly the entire year. This year with turf toe is also affecting the judgment and frustration. 18 minutes ago, HappyDays said: First thing I'll say is that a lot of people you quoted there are clearly responding to the initial eye-popping numbers that were reported. We now know those numbers were agent-driven. If these posters knew he was only going to count $3.7 million against the cap I wonder if that would affect their opinion. More importantly, one thing not mentioned in any of the negative posts is his play. It's the same negative mentioned over and over - his injury history. Everyone seems to agree that they liked him a lot as a player. The big IF is his health. Beane is taking a swing with this signing. There's a chance he blows up and we get a highly productive slot receiver with explosive traits at an insanely good value. There's a chance he suffers a lower leg injury early in the season and never finds a consistent rhythm in the offense. The upside is high production at a low cost, the downside is a waste of $3.7 million against the cap this year and $1.4 million dead cap in 2024. I'm good with that risk/reward trade off. This guy is Roscoe Parrish to me Now my recollection of Roscoe was as he was practically uncoverable but he was also injured a lot Here’s to hoping that we get Roscoe without the injuries 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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