Playoff Solutions Assuming they don’t replay the Bengals game.

[Motor26]

3 minutes ago, Airseven said:

The easiest solution isn't the proper solution. The game should be finished for the sake of competitive integrity. The season still matters. At this point, several reasonable scenarios have been offered to get it played in the next two weeks.

 

Reasonable? There's nothing reasonable about the Bills or Bengals having to play a team coming off a bye. 

[zow2]

The fairest thing to do is give Kansas City the week off and let the Raiders go into their off-season. Then if Cincinnati wins and Buffalo loses, use strength of victory to seed the teams 🙂

[Airseven]

3 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

 

Reasonable? There's nothing reasonable about the Bills or Bengals having to play a team coming off a bye. 

 

Bills and Bengals played 5 minutes last week. Everyone else played complete games.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

2 minutes ago, Airseven said:

 

Bills and Bengals played 5 minutes last week. Everyone else played complete games.

You must not be a Bills fan

[Motor26]

1 minute ago, Airseven said:

 

Bills and Bengals played 5 minutes last week. Everyone else played complete games.

 

Won't be a playoff game, though. 

[What a Tuel]

5 minutes ago, zow2 said:

The fairest thing to do is give Kansas City the week off and let the Raiders go into their off-season. Then if Cincinnati wins and Buffalo loses, use strength of victory to seed the teams 🙂

 

Not a bad idea but that potentially gives the chiefs the 2 week bye that everyone is complaining about. Unless we have strength of victory tie breaker? Then it still gives Chiefs a bye week before wild card weekend which everyone is up in arms about.

 

Edit: Oh that also potentially leaves the AFC North division winner undecided.

Edited January 4, 2023 by What a Tuel

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Dick_Cheney said:

The possibility of the Chiefs getting 2 weeks off strikes me as.....disgusting lol.

How is that? If the Bills beat the Bengals in Week 19, then the Chiefs don't get a first round bye and have to come to Buffalo for the Championship Game.

[What a Tuel]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

How is that? If the Bills beat the Bengals in Week 19, then the Chiefs don't get a first round bye and have to come to Buffalo for the Championship Game.

 

If the Bengals beat the Bills, and the Chiefs beat the Broncos then the Chiefs don't play until Jan 29th. I don't have a problem with that but some people do. I think it could actually be a handicap to them.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, What a Tuel said:

 

If the Bengals beat the Bills, and the Chiefs beat the Broncos then the Chiefs don't play until Jan 29th. I don't have a problem with that but some people do. I think it could actually be a handicap to them.

I've been saying this all day long. I couldn't care less what other teams are doing. I want my Buffalo Bills to win the Super Bowl. No asterisk, and no special privileges. The easiest way that's going to happen is for the playoffs to go through Orchard Park. Maybe even more so now with the emotion of the home crowd behind them. And the only way it's going to go through Orchard Park is if they beat both the NE and Cincinnati. (KC is not losing to the Raiders.)  Let's win this thing! 

[BillsFanSD]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Q. What have we learned in 57 pages of discussion here?

A. No solution is perfect. In fact there are big problems with every proposal. 
 

In hindsight, the NFL should have had a rule for dealing with game cancellations that can’t be made up (based on league determination). No, we fortunately haven’t seen this particular situation before. But let’s say 9/11 had happened on 1/1 and the Jets/Giants couldn’t play and the game couldn’t be moved before the playoffs. Or that some Storm of the Century shut down Week 18 from Chicago to Boston. Or that 90% of some team tested positive for COVID ahead of Week 18. People don’t react well to after-the-fact fixes. They don’t mind if the plan was in place and known to all teams ahead of the event. 

 

I say no contest/coin flip if two teams are tied in the loss column after Week 18 concludes. We can create all kinds of fancy fixes that won’t satisfy people anyway. The Bills didn’t “forfeit”; the league canceled the game. For all I know  the “atmospheric river” crossing California may inundate Las Vegas on Sunday and cause the Chiefs game to be canceled. The fix for a random occurrence altering an expected scenario is usually a random method for assigning a winner. Coin flip and be done with it. 

 

The thing that's irritating about this is that it's completely predictable to the point of total certainty that something like this would happen eventually.  For the life of me, I do not understand why the NFL is so consistently myopic and reactionary and can't think ahead to how to handle this kind of situation.  It really isn't hard to come up with some general policy parameters for this.

 

First of all, you need to make sure that it's a system that can't be gamed.  For the MNF game, we were only halfway through the first quarter, so the game had barely even started and this isn't a concern.  But you don't want to create an incentive for a team to exaggerate an injury in the fourth quarter of a 47-3 blowout as a way of generating a no-contest or something.  So make it a call from New York based on some well-publicized guidelines for when play stops and when play continues.  It could be as simple as "spinal injury or on-field resuscitation = stop; anything else = go."  Just enough to stop gamesmanship.

 

Second, you need a plan for how you deal with the game that got cancelled.  "Score at the time of cancellation" is fine.  "Tie" is fine.  "Coin flip" is fine.  "No contest" is fine.  "The injured player's team loses" is fine.  It could depend on how much time is left in the game -- that's fine.  Just have a rule and stick to it.  This making-it-up-as-you-go-along business is bush league.  Even a suboptimal rule is better than what the league is doing now, because the suboptimal rule will at least be transparent and known to all parties in advance.  

 

Third, you need leeway for the commissioner to handle unforeseen contingencies.  All this needs is a clause like "The commissioner has the authority the adjust any of these procedures when he or she determines that doing so is in the best interests of the league" or somesuch.  If the commissioner abuses that authority, you have the wrong commissioner and that's not a problem that can be solved with policy.

 

I think that's really about it.  This policy doesn't have to be complicated.  It just needs to exist.

[Chaos]

Any solution impacts lots of people. One solution is to cancel the entire week 17 results for all games. And proceed into week 18 with everyone knowing it’s a 16 game season.  It is the fairest solution for the top of the bracket in the AFC. 

[Rochesterfan]

23 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

The thing that's irritating about this is that it's completely predictable to the point of total certainty that something like this would happen eventually.  For the life of me, I do not understand why the NFL is so consistently myopic and reactionary and can't think ahead to how to handle this kind of situation.  It really isn't hard to come up with some general policy parameters for this.

 

First of all, you need to make sure that it's a system that can't be gamed.  For the MNF game, we were only halfway through the first quarter, so the game had barely even started and this isn't a concern.  But you don't want to create an incentive for a team to exaggerate an injury in the fourth quarter of a 47-3 blowout as a way of generating a no-contest or something.  So make it a call from New York based on some well-publicized guidelines for when play stops and when play continues.  It could be as simple as "spinal injury or on-field resuscitation = stop; anything else = go."  Just enough to stop gamesmanship.

 

Second, you need a plan for how you deal with the game that got cancelled.  "Score at the time of cancellation" is fine.  "Tie" is fine.  "Coin flip" is fine.  "No contest" is fine.  "The injured player's team loses" is fine.  It could depend on how much time is left in the game -- that's fine.  Just have a rule and stick to it.  This making-it-up-as-you-go-along business is bush league.  Even a suboptimal rule is better than what the league is doing now, because the suboptimal rule will at least be transparent and known to all parties in advance.  

 

Third, you need leeway for the commissioner to handle unforeseen contingencies.  All this needs is a clause like "The commissioner has the authority the adjust any of these procedures when he or she determines that doing so is in the best interests of the league" or somesuch.  If the commissioner abuses that authority, you have the wrong commissioner and that's not a problem that can be solved with policy.

 

I think that's really about it.  This policy doesn't have to be complicated.  It just needs to exist.

 

As I keep saying there is a rule and it has been discussed.  It gives the commissioner the leeway, but the first part of the rule is if possible to try every way to reschedule- especially if it has an impact on other teams (positive or negative).

 

The rule also states that the alternative if it can not be played for whatever reason is a no contest.  There are no rules for coin toss or tie or assigning a victory, but does give the commission leeway - so my guess is in you example of 47-3 - he could rule the game official and give the team with 47 the victory.

 

I do not think he would do that in the middle of the first quarter.

[SoCal Deek]

13 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Any solution impacts lots of people. One solution is to cancel the entire week 17 results for all games. And proceed into week 18 with everyone knowing it’s a 16 game season.  It is the fairest solution for the top of the bracket in the AFC. 

This is not happening. There are 31 other teams with their own interests. 

[astb41]

Probably wishful thinking but, a scenario I could see happening - the #1 seeding comes down to Buffalo, KC, Cinncy. Let’s say everyone plays week 18 as scheduled and we’ll assume all 3 teams win. The league is already leaning on the Bills players/coaches/staff to decide what to do for their week 18 game. The league is no doubt in contact with the Bengals and Chiefs (as well as all other teams).

 

the Bengals have already shown all the grace in the world having been apart of this and Andy Reid has a long standing relationship with Sean McDermott. Of course they’d discuss it with their players but I could very well see these teams allowing the Bills the #1 seed if they all win in week 18.

 

while it would be unfair and their fans would be pissed, both of these teams would feel extremely confident in the wild card round. Yes it would eliminate  home field if the bills make the AFCGC but this league is a brotherhood and it makes sense to me as a move of solidarity and a way to avoid a chaotic scheduling situation.

 

flame away.

Edited January 4, 2023 by astb41

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, astb41 said:

Probably wishful thinking but, a scenario I could see happening - the #1 seeding comes down to Buffalo, KC, Cinncy. Let’s say everyone plays week 18 as scheduled and we’ll assume all 3 teams win. The league is already leaning on the Bills players/coaches/staff to decide what to do for their week 18 game. The league is no doubt in contact with the Bengals and Chiefs (as well as all other teams).

 

the Bengals have already shown all the grace in the world having been apart of this and Andy Reid has a long standing relationship with Sean McDermott. Of course they’d discuss it with their players but I could very well see these teams allowing the Bills the #1 seed if they all win in week 18.

 

while it would be unfair and their fans would be pissed, both of these teams would feel extremely confident in the wild card round. Yes it would eliminate  home field if the bills make the AFCGC but this league is a brotherhood and it makes sense to me as a move of solidarity and a way to avoid a chaotic scheduling situation.

 

flame away.

Not happening. 

[Kiva]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Not happening. 

Right. Only solution is to finish the Bengals game. There are no other options. 

[Turk71]

Damar's survival is obviously the paramount concern right now.

 

Venturing a guess on how the NFL deals with this situation re: playoff seeding.

I think the Bills Bengals game will be considered a no contest and will not be made up. I don't see any chance of a win or loss being assigned to either team from that game.

  Win % will be used for playoff seeding and the playoffs will happen as scheduled. I don't see any chance of them moving the established playoff dates or inventing new ways of seeding the playoffs. Any other solution would be too complicated imo.

[section122]

57 minutes ago, section122 said:

Here is an idea

 

Play this week as normal.  

 

If kc beats vegas they get a bye. Bills get the 2 and bengals the 3 seed for 1st round opponents.  If both teams win the divisional game is played in cincy as a quasi make up game. If the Bills make the afc championship game they host if not kc hosts

 

If kc loses to vegas bills bengals gets played for the 1 seed loser goes home. 7 seed plays the 8th seed that just missed and the bye is removed.

 

Nfl gets an extra playoff game, most issues get resolved with minimal disruption.

 

 

 

I accidently posted this in the wrong thread but what do people think of this idea?

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

8 minutes ago, section122 said:

Here is an idea

 

Play this week as normal.  

 

If kc beats vegas they get a bye. Bills get the 2 and bengals the 3 seed for 1st round opponents.  If both teams win the divisional game is played in cincy as a quasi make up game. If the Bills make the afc championship game they host if not kc hosts

 

If kc loses to vegas bills bengals gets played for the 1 seed loser goes home. 7 seed plays the 8th seed that just missed and the bye is removed.

 

Nfl gets an extra playoff game, most issues get resolved with minimal disruption.

 

Am I understanding that in the event that KC loses to Vegas, the Bills/Bengals would compete in what amounts to a play in game? And then an extra team that was already eliminated would essentially move in to the bracket? 

 

If I have this correctly, I would not be for this. I think they will default to win pct. or even get to a coin flip, before they would cause this much disruption to the playoff bracket. 

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

Damar's survival is obviously the paramount concern right now.

 

Venturing a guess on how the NFL deals with this situation re: playoff seeding.

I think the Bills Bengals game will be considered a no contest and will not be made up. I don't see any chance of a win or loss being assigned to either team from that game.

  Win % will be used for playoff seeding and the playoffs will happen as scheduled. I don't see any chance of them moving the established playoff dates or inventing new ways of seeding the playoffs. Any other solution would be too complicated imo.

 

There was some chatter earlier that an unnamed higher up had indicated they will remove a game from the Chiefs record (either the Denver game last week or through a random number generator) for the purposes of evening the three teams with a 16 game record. It seemed like a legit report, but I have to lean toward what you are saying here Turk. I have a hard time not seeing the league go to win pct. to seed the Bills/Bengals/Chiefs. More than likely the Chiefs win and we end up with the 2 seed. It's not perfect, but it minimizes disruption throughout the rest of the league. The only other issue being the Ravens will no longer have the ability to win the North. 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

Any solution impacts lots of people. One solution is to cancel the entire week 17 results for all games. And proceed into week 18 with everyone knowing it’s a 16 game season.  It is the fairest solution for the top of the bracket in the AFC. 

the idea of removing a random game from the chiefs makes more sense than simply week 17. Which is allegedly the nfl front running plan 

[Not Applicable]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

the idea of removing a random game from the chiefs makes more sense than simply week 17. Which is allegedly the nfl front running plan 

Removing games under any circumstances is wildly unfair to other teams and will hopefully never happen.

[since79]

2 hours ago, section122 said:

Here is an idea

 

Play this week as normal.  

 

If kc beats vegas they get a bye. Bills get the 2 and bengals the 3 seed for 1st round opponents.  If both teams win the divisional game is played in cincy as a quasi make up game. If the Bills make the afc championship game they host if not kc hosts

 

If kc loses to vegas bills bengals gets played for the 1 seed loser goes home. 7 seed plays the 8th seed that just missed and the bye is removed.

 

Nfl gets an extra playoff game, most issues get resolved with minimal disruption.

 

 

This idea is perfect provided all three teams win this weekend. The Ravens could not win division if they loose this week.

If we are forced to play the Cincinnati game and loose a bye anyway give KC the bye but not home field in AFC championship game until we see the divisional outcome.

 

If us, Cinci in divisional round, Cinci host as make up game.   If Buffalo wins that game they become one seed, if Cinci wins they are now one seed.   If Cinci had beat us this week and won Sunday they would be 1 based on current Tie breakers with a KC loss. If we had beat Cinci and win this week we would have been 1 seed, head to head with KC. 

 

If divisional round is  Buffalo or Cinci vs another opponent, KC host Championship if they advance.

 

If KC does not advance but Buffalo and Cinci do winner would host  till Championship anyway. 

 

Who host championship game.

KC if Buff or Cinci do not win in first round.  If Cinci beat Buff round 2.   KC would have been 1 if they won out and we lost.

Buffalo if they meet Cinci and beat them.  We would be 1 if we won out.

Cinci if they meet Buffalo in divisional round and win. They  would have been 2 if they beat us on Mon. And 1 if KC loose against Raiders.  Host if KC looses first playoff game anyway.  

 

 

 

This way all three teams still have path to host the championship game.  

Edited January 5, 2023 by since79

[AdamK]

1 hour ago, Kiva said:

Right. Only solution is to finish the Bengals game. There are no other options. 

Mondays game is not going to be played. The NFL is not going to adjust the playoff schedule or games. A simpler solution will prevail. 
 

[Scott7975]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I really don't think it is the most fair. You give every other AFC playoff team a week's bye. 

 

The best of a bad bunch option is just to cancel that gave, leave everything else unchanged and decide seeding on conference record. 

 

Not sure that is the fairest option either considering the Bills and Bengals would have played one less game.  The game itself does have an affect on the division winner between Bengals and Ravens too no?

 

Regardless there is no completely fair option, as I mentioned earlier.  

Edited January 5, 2023 by Scott7975

[The Frankish Reich]

18 minutes ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

Removing games under any circumstances is wildly unfair to other teams and will hopefully never happen.

Exactly. 

We understand what the rules are for making the playoffs/seeding in the playoffs before the season begins, and the key one is "the team that wins the most games wins the division/gets first seed." 

There's a special spin on that this year that isn't expressly stated in the rules (the COVID rules maybe, but I'm not sure those were made to apply to other situations): 2 teams had a game canceled (Bills/Bengals), so they weren't given the chance to garner one additional win.

So any special rule needs to: (1) preserve/credit the wins every team has accumulated; (2) figure out a way to not handicap a team that didn't have the opportunity to garner that additional win by virtue of a game cancellation. (Here it doesn't really matter what the reason was. The game was canceled. It's not the Bills fault, and it's not Tee Higgins and the Bengals fault. A horrific thing happened, and a game was canceled in the 1st quarter because of it. It wouldn't matter if it was canceled because there was an active shooter in the stadium or because there was a torrential downpour.)

 

That's why I fall back on "tied in the loss column = coin flip/lottery." Any other option tends to give an unfair advantage to one team at the expense of the others. Playoff seeding is pretty random anyway in that you can be in an awful division and get in at 9-8 or even (as it looked just a couple weeks ago) with a losing record. Schedules are unbalanced, and most of the seeding doesn't reflect true performance throughout the regular season anyway.

Edited January 5, 2023 by The Frankish Reich

[quinnearlysghost88]

If it wasn’t discussed already 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by quinnearlysghost88

[Franco_92]

26 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

the idea of removing a random game from the chiefs makes more sense than simply week 17. Which is allegedly the nfl front running plan 

I think I saw Allbright walk this back a bit 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

The Bills/Bengals restart is not happening, no way, no how. Neither team will go for it, and the NFL has no taste for it interrupting playoffs. 

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

Damar's survival is obviously the paramount concern right now.

 

Venturing a guess on how the NFL deals with this situation re: playoff seeding.

I think the Bills Bengals game will be considered a no contest and will not be made up. I don't see any chance of a win or loss being assigned to either team from that game.

  Win % will be used for playoff seeding and the playoffs will happen as scheduled. I don't see any chance of them moving the established playoff dates or inventing new ways of seeding the playoffs. Any other solution would be too complicated imo.

 

Plus that fits with the established rules and would be repeatable in the future for other unseen issues of this nature.

 

 

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Not sure that is the fairest option either considering the Bills and Bengals would have played one less game.  The game itself does have an affect on the division winner between Bengals and Ravens too no?

 

Regardless there is no completely fair option, as I mentioned earlier.  

In terms of conference record, if the Chiefs, Bills and Bengals all win then the Chiefs would be 9-3, the Bills 9-2 and the Bengals 8-3. The Bills would have one up on the Chiefs due to head to head but the system would be potentially depriving the Bengals of a chance to get the one seed, as if they beat the Bills they’d be 9-3 after defeating both of their nearest rivals.

 

There are no set of week 18 results which would lock down the seedings, which is the issue the NFL has.

[BLeonard]

9 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

If it wasn’t discussed already 

 

 

So, if the Chiefs get the #1 seed, they'd get two weeks off (week 19 & 20) and the Bills and Bengals have to play a playoff game the next week, while their opponent had a bye.

 

Seems unfair to the Bills and Bengals, while rewarding every other AFC team.  In that scenario it's better for the Bills and Bengals to skip the game altogether.  That way, at least their opponents in the playoffs don't get a bye, while the Bills/Bengals game is happening.

Edited January 5, 2023 by BLeonard

[Rochesterfan]

Just now, BLeonard said:

So, if the Chiefs get the #1 seed, they'd get two weeks off (week 19 & 20) and the Bills and Bengals have to play a playoff game the next week, while their opponent had a bye.

 

Seems unfair to the Bills and Bengals, while rewarding every other AFC team.

 

Yep - it is one of the worst ideas and I do not seen Buffalo or Cincinnati going for it.

 

[BLeonard]

6 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Yep - it is one of the worst ideas and I do not seen Buffalo or Cincinnati going for it.

 

Not to mention, if KC beats the Raiders, the Bengals can't get the #1 seed regardless.  Why would they bother playing, knowing they have a playoff opponent coming off of a bye the next week whether they win or lose?

Edited January 5, 2023 by BLeonard

[Kiva]

21 minutes ago, AdamK said:

Mondays game is not going to be played. The NFL is not going to adjust the playoff schedule or games. A simpler solution will prevail. 
 

Why don’t they just cancel the game then? They want to see how this week play out. If all three teams win, they must finish the game.  Bills can’t be penalized for not finishing a game the nfl stopped. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

5 minutes ago, Kiva said:

Why don’t they just cancel the game then? They want to see how this week play out. If all three teams win, they must finish the game.  Bills can’t be penalized for not finishing a game the nfl stopped. 

No they don't

[UKBillFan]

9 minutes ago, Kiva said:

Why don’t they just cancel the game then? They want to see how this week play out. If all three teams win, they must finish the game.  Bills can’t be penalized for not finishing a game the nfl stopped. 

Whatever happens in week 18, there will be some weight on Bills-Bengals. There is no set of outcomes where it won’t have some kind of impact on seedings.

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

2 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

No they don't

 

I agree... the more I have thought about it and heard more discussion today, I don't think anyone wants this game to be played. Getting the Bills/Bengals back on that same field at any point in the next week or two just isn't going to happen.

[Kiva]

1 minute ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said:

 

I agree... the more I have thought about it and heard more discussion today, I don't think anyone wants this game to be played. Getting the Bills/Bengals back on that same field at any point in the next week or two just isn't going to happen.

As long as Bills are not penalized and they can earn 1 seed after beating the pats is all I care about.  If league figures a way, then finishing the cincy game is not required.  

[Not Applicable]

10 minutes ago, Kiva said:

As long as Bills are not penalized and they can earn 1 seed after beating the pats is all I care about.  If league figures a way, then finishing the cincy game is not required.  

The Bills are the ones who ultimately chose to not finish the Bengals game. This was the right call, but they cannot be rewarded with the #1 seed without finishing that game, which seems to be an unlikely outcome at this juncture. If anyone gets the short end of the stick here, it's unfortunately going to be them.