I hope the Bills invest heavily into the offensive line this offseason

[LABILLBACKER]

16 hours ago, LEBills said:

it would be 31 after we win the Super Bowl. The dolphins had to forfeit a first round pick this year 😂😂

 

but yes, we need to upgrade OL desperately. If we don’t meet this seasons expectations, the OL will likely be the main reason.

We absolutely have to draft 3 OL and 2 WR this April.  Surrounding Josh with better talent is imperative to sustaining a long term playoff/SB run. You shop for defense in FA.

[John from Riverside]

16 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

We absolutely have to draft 3 OL and 2 WR this April.  Surrounding Josh with better talent is imperative to sustaining a long term playoff/SB run. You shop for defense in FA.

My question is at what positions for the ol Dockins is still very good. Spencer Brown has been disappointing it right guard I still like bates scaffold looks old, and Morse just took like his six concussion

 

The other thing I’d really like to see is a wide receiver with some size they can actually catch and has speed

[Dr.Sack]

 I’m just happy if find an all-pro. 

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

 I’m just happy if find an all-pro. 

To me, the likely places in positions that you would find, that is the office of line or corner, but we just drafted two corners

 

Center seem to drop that might be a good spot a Center guard combo

Edited December 19, 2022 by John from Riverside

[Dr.Sack]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

To me, the likely places in positions that you would find, that is the office of line or corner, but we just drafted two corners

Scheme fit important too. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Dr.Sack said:

Scheme fit important too. 

Don’t rule out safety either

[NewEra]

I hope the Bills draft a LG, C and RT in rounds 3,4 and 5 and they all turn out to be very good starters. WR rd 1.  Sean Tucker rd 2-  yup another RB , ugh.  I think Tucker has the juice this O needs.  Good value in rd 2 

[Dr.Sack]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Don’t rule out safety either

Hamlin & Poyer only got burned once each last night. 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

I hope the Bills draft a LG, C and RT in rounds 3,4 and 5 and they all turn out to be very good starters. WR rd 1.  Sean Tucker rd 2-  yup another RB , ugh.  I think Tucker has the juice this O needs.  Good value in rd 2 

I absolutely think we’re gonna keep drafting. Running backs. There is nothing in the way that the bills play James cook that screams to me that they want him to be the primary back.

1 minute ago, Dr.Sack said:

Hamlin & Poyer only got burned once each last night. 

We don’t know what’s gonna happen with Hyde yet. Neck injuries are tricky and I was super high on Hamlin before they even put them into the lineup but I am noticing that he takes bad angles add times on his tackling. I hope he can clean that up.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

8 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

Are we saying that Knox has arrived?

He flashes great games then has games where the drops and concentration lapses are killers so I don't mind it if the team continues to look for competition and upgrades at that position. Knox has gotten better so I am not counting out that he will continue to develop more consistency.

 

He did have a good game yesterday, that makes me want to see more of that same level of play from the position - this offense needs that.

 

I don't believe in drafting positions in specific rounds, but if you go into a draft with positional needs you need to rate those players a bit higher - particularly if the draft is thin at that position or if there is a run on them. Beane has said that they stick with their board rankings and I tend to believe him.

 

I like the Gopher center, I think he would be a great fit in this offense, but not sure what round he would go in or when a team should pull the trigger, but getting a solid C/G contributor on a rookie deal would beat out trying to pay the $ needed to plug that hole via FA.

 

I think MItch signed a 2-year extension that is good through the 2024 season, so if he sticks around we could bring someone along slowly, or maybe on a rotation at guard and center so they could eventually start.

 

 

 

What I'm saying is Knox looks much much better than he looked in his 1st 2 years and is likely one of the top 10 or so TE's in the league and is a TE that defenses have to account for as opposed to someone like a Lee Smith.   But it took time for him to get there so don't think it's wise to give up on S Brown after two seasons, the 2nd which he had basically no training camp and off season due to surgery.  That's how you get in trouble when you give up on players too soon and keep replacing them as it wastes draft picks and money.

[WideNine]

3 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

What I'm saying is Knox looks much much better than he looked in his 1st 2 years and is likely one of the top 10 or so TE's in the league and is a TE that defenses have to account for as opposed to someone like a Lee Smith.   But it took time for him to get there so don't think it's wise to give up on S Brown after two seasons, the 2nd which he had basically no training camp and off season due to surgery.  That's how you get in trouble when you give up on players too soon and keep replacing them as it wastes draft picks and money.

 

That's fair.

 

He has so many of the "other" things you want in a TE, I am rooting for him to become that reliable receiving option every game.

 

We need that, because when he is dialed in you can see what a positive impact he has on our ability to move the ball and score in the RZ.

 

 

 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:38 AM, KHAN said:

Emboldened, italicized, underlined, colorized and enlarged for emphasis.

It unreal...but it appears like they drafted Boogie because they missed on Epenesa, then missed even worse by drafting Boogie. He looks like hot garbage in run defense, kid couldn't set the table let alone set the edge. 

We all knew Creed Humphrey was a sure thing. 

[WideNine]

12 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Hamlin & Poyer only got burned once each last night. 

 

Felt like Hamlin was a spectator out there in pass coverage on Saturday.

 

The idea of cover 2 is that your DBs can jam and cover the flat knowing they have help over the top if they lose a step on a WR.

 

Always see Hamlin arriving late to the scene with no angle to break up the pass or tackle the receiver.

 

I was told here that Cover 1 did a breakdown that showed him doing well, but I did not see that Saturday night enough.

 

Perhaps there is film out there showing reps where he is in the right spot at the right time and passes just aren't thrown.

 

Hard to overlook all the times he is not.

 

 

 

[Big Turk]

I mean, what incentive does Beane have to do this when we have the #2 offense in the NFL over the past 3 years with "bad OLines"?

 

He likely will be investing it into skill positions on offense or on D.

Cracks are starting to form on D with Hyde out. Hamlin is suspect at best in coverage and an outright liability at worst. His best attribute is run D near the LOS but he also is out of position and takes bad angles at times that allow for big runs(although it's mostly cleaned up he still has relapses of that)

 

Allen mitigates many of the issues and sometimes creates big lanes for him to escape through from players getting overly aggressive with their upfield pursuit.

 

I doubt Beane starts dropping first round picks on linemen.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Big Turk

[MrEpsYtown]

12 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

 I’m just happy if find an all-pro. 

Well we just passed on the generational talent in Linderbaum. Imo, I don't think there is a first round center in the 2023 class. A few interesting bodies in free agency though. 

[somnus00]

The Bills hired one of the best o-line coaches in the league last off season. I think they were hoping for a jump from Brown and Doyle, who are both athletic freaks for their size.

[WideNine]

6 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

The Bills hired one of the best o-line coaches in the league last off season. I think they were hoping for a jump from Brown and Doyle, who are both athletic freaks for their size.

 

I thought Doyle was the most improved of the 2 at the beginning of the season.

 

He was pretty raw to begin with, but you could tell he put in some work over the offseason.

 

Too bad about the injury.

 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

35 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I mean, what incentive does Beane have to do this when we have the #2 offense in the NFL over the past 3 years with "bad OLines"?

 

He likely will be investing it into skill positions on offense or on D.

 

You may end up being right, but I doubt Beane is thinking that after the play of the OL this year.

I do have to say that "3 years of bad OLines" is not correct IMO.  The lines in 2020 and 2021 were better than this year's.

 

As to the offensive skill positions, I maintain that the OL is playing bad enough to hamper the play of the current group

the Bills have.  Giving Josh on average, a bit more time, would fix most of the issues we've seen this year.

You can't count on Josh running around like a mad man every game.  Even bad opposing DLs are causing problems.

When Josh has time in the pocket, he is almost unstoppable.

 

What I see doesn't seem that complicated.  Next year move Bates back to LG where he has played his best ball next to Dawkins.

Draft a day one starting RG and solidify that position for the future.  Draft Morse's replacement and have him acclimate to

take over in 2024.  I can't see Morse playing in 2024 and if he does the rookie could wait another year.  Josh has to have a good C.

That gives 4 of the 5 starters and Morse's replacement taken care of.  Brown needs to improve, and you got to bring in a journeyman

vet to give him some camp competition and then for depth.  Re-sign Ike for swing guard is they think he can handle it.

Doyle is in the mix so you're down to one other depth player.

 

So, I believe 2OL, 1WR and a S with the first 4 picks is what's needed next year.  After that, Beane can do whatever he wants.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by ColoradoBills

[Straight Hucklebuck]

WR and Offensive Line

[Toledo Bill]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:52 AM, BillsShredder83 said:

Ton of hindsight here. That season we were comin off afccg loss to kc. We couldnt do anything to slow him, and our offense was at its peak.

 

Looking back, two des wasnt crazy at all. Hoping development still mskes this look like the best decision

Only crazy part is that one of them was Basham.

[BuffaloRebound]

As long as we take a player on the Offensive side in 1st round, I’ll be happy.  And it’s past due to spend money on the Offensive Line in free agency.  

[SoCal Deek]

A quick look at CBS Sports latest Mock Draft thread and their three writers have the Bills going with the following in Round One

 

Johnson, Safety…Texas A&M

Njigba, WR…Ohio State

Torrence, OL….Florida 

 

For what it’s worth.

[nosejob]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

A quick look at CBS Sports latest Mock Draft thread and their three writers have the Bills going with the following in Round One

 

Johnson, Safety…Texas A&M

Njigba, WR…Ohio State

Torrence, OL….Florida 

 

For what it’s worth.

Chad Reuter had a good write up on NFL.com where he took the top 20 Senior Bowl prospects with short Bios and NFL comparisons. Plenty of Oline prospects to ponder. I wouldn't be surprised with Torrence and Voorhees from USC. Maybe we can bring Teller back with a late rounder since Browns need picks, maybe Nelson?

I'm sure Beane knows he needs to build this line.

[Alphadawg7]

Here is the issue...yes we need OL help, there is no doubt about that, and no doubt it will be addressed in some way.

 

But...while it easy to look at THIS team right now, with these EXACT players on it and say OL will 100% be the first round pick, the reality is, this team could look much different on draft night with several massive holes to fill.  

 

So, my point is, for those expecting there is no option but OL in the first, I think you are premature on that and I expect Beane to do what he always does, stay true to his board and take BPA...and that, might be a defensive player.  I am NOT advocating for a defensive player, I am not advocating for anything actually, just looking at the reality of where our holes could be come draft night and realizing Beane has 100% stayed true to his board in the past, and I don't expect him to do anything again but that.  

 

There are real questions about whether Hyde or Poyer will be here next year, so we could have a hole at safety.  Big decision on Edmunds looming, so could have a big hole at LB.  We also have potential DL issues with Von out, and not knowing if Jordan and Shaq can be resigned yet.  

 

We also have Devin as a FA, and Cook isn't a 3 down RB IMO, so I don't think he is the answer.  He goes down too easy and can't gain the tough yards.  

 

Then there is the glaring need for another WR.  

 

Now, some of these, including OL, could be addressed in FA.  But we don't have a lot to spend either in FA, so a lot of this will come down to who they retain and who they sign.  

 

Just saying, big yes OL is an issue that will need to be addressed this year.  But come draft night, we could potentially have glaring holes at OL, S, LB, WR, and RB (in no particular order) and I do not under any circumstance believe Beane will reach with that pick, instead he will do what he always does and will take BPA, and that guy could be from any of those positions depending on the decisions made prior to the draft. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Airseven]

I agree with most everything Cowherd said this morning. Dolphins outplayed and out-coached the Bills, but Allen won the game. It’s amazing they’re stuck in this same spot over-relying on Allen going into yet another postseason. It’s not sustainable. Yes, 3 of the first 5 picks need to be OL (and they should’ve been last spring too!).

[ColoradoBills]

20 minutes ago, nosejob said:

Chad Reuter had a good write up on NFL.com where he took the top 20 Senior Bowl prospects with short Bios and NFL comparisons. Plenty of Oline prospects to ponder. I wouldn't be surprised with Torrence and Voorhees from USC. Maybe we can bring Teller back with a late rounder since Browns need picks, maybe Nelson?

I'm sure Beane knows he needs to build this line.

 

He should be on the "visit" list.

[MrEpsYtown]

28 minutes ago, nosejob said:

Chad Reuter had a good write up on NFL.com where he took the top 20 Senior Bowl prospects with short Bios and NFL comparisons. Plenty of Oline prospects to ponder. I wouldn't be surprised with Torrence and Voorhees from USC. Maybe we can bring Teller back with a late rounder since Browns need picks, maybe Nelson?

I'm sure Beane knows he needs to build this line.

 
Not sure getting Teller back is doable, but I do think the Browns will cut or trade Joel Bitonio. They will be up against it and Jack Conklin is a free agent. Bitonio is the perfect fit at left guard in this offense. Super athletic with a mean streak. 

[Nihilarian]

As much as I would love the Buffalo Bills to field the NFLs best offensive line. Having Josh Allen at QB has proven that hasn't been a necessity. 

 

I even dislike mentioning it...however, age, injuries often catch up with all elite athletes...eventually.

 

I agree that the Buffalo Bills should be building the very best offensive line this offseason just to prepare for that eventuality. Build that run game to control the game/clock...which will simply allow Josh Allen to be more dominant with the passing game. 

 

Last season's playoff push has shown what Josh Allen can do when given time in the pocket to throw...unstoppable!  It was that "prevent" defense that killed them in KC.

 

 

Balance though...Defense does win Championships. Of the 110 teams to reach the SB, 88 of them fielded a top 10 in scoring. Of the 55 SB champs, 48 had a top 10 scoring defense. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

5 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

That's fair.

 

He has so many of the "other" things you want in a TE, I am rooting for him to become that reliable receiving option every game.

 

We need that, because when he is dialed in you can see what a positive impact he has on our ability to move the ball and score in the RZ.

 

 

 

 

Every off season you read many posts here, imagine if we had a TE like Kelse.  Well yeah but around 28 other teams are saying the same and many of those have early draft picks who could easily grab that guy, but to no avail.  Him and the guy in SF and maybe Pitts appear to be unicorns, but after that there's some mini unicorns, maybe Knox is one of them and a large number of Tyler Kroft, Hooper types. 

 

Who was the FA TE the Bills signed 6 or 7 years ago from Miami who was going to be great, but ended up being average.

[Pasaluki]

8 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Every off season you read many posts here, imagine if we had a TE like Kelse.  Well yeah but around 28 other teams are saying the same and many of those have early draft picks who could easily grab that guy, but to no avail.  Him and the guy in SF and maybe Pitts appear to be unicorns, but after that there's some mini unicorns, maybe Knox is one of them and a large number of Tyler Kroft, Hooper types. 

 

Who was the FA TE the Bills signed 6 or 7 years ago from Miami who was going to be great, but ended up being average.

Charles Clay

[Aurelius]

On 12/18/2022 at 8:33 AM, dollars 2 donuts said:

We have a 45 million dollar qb.

 

A line that is better than above average when 100% healthy and a true 1A receiver with wheels should probably be pretty high on the list for success.

 

in another thread I half seriously had the draft going…

 

1. WR

2. OL

3. WR

4. OL

5. WR

5. RB

 

i am completely willing to change that up as necessary between these two primary positions, but we are going to need more help in free agency.

 

 

I can see this too, except for the RB part.  Too many other needs.  There will be RB’s galore on waivers etc.  

[WideNine]

19 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Every off season you read many posts here, imagine if we had a TE like Kelse.  Well yeah but around 28 other teams are saying the same and many of those have early draft picks who could easily grab that guy, but to no avail.  Him and the guy in SF and maybe Pitts appear to be unicorns, but after that there's some mini unicorns, maybe Knox is one of them and a large number of Tyler Kroft, Hooper types. 

 

Who was the FA TE the Bills signed 6 or 7 years ago from Miami who was going to be great, but ended up being average.

 

Truth.

 

The guy I wanted the Bills to target over Knox ended up needing back surgery after 3 games went on IR, came back the next season and broke a bone in his foot during non-contact drills and went to IR again.

 

Traded to another team so..... in hindsight those may be freak accidents, but glad we went the Knox route.

 

The great ones are very hard to find, and the good ones are worth the investment to help them continue to hone their craft.

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

5 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Truth.

 

The guy I wanted the Bills to target over Knox ended up needing back surgery after 3 games went on IR, came back the next season and broke a bone in his foot during non-contact drills and went to IR again.

 

Traded to another team so..... in hindsight those may be freak accidents, but glad we went the Knox route.

 

The great ones are very hard to find, and the good ones are worth the investment to help them continue to hone their craft.

 

 

 

The guy drafted by Denver then traded last year to Seattle as part of the Wilson trade??

[Aurelius]

51 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Every off season you read many posts here, imagine if we had a TE like Kelse.  Well yeah but around 28 other teams are saying the same and many of those have early draft picks who could easily grab that guy, but to no avail.  Him and the guy in SF and maybe Pitts appear to be unicorns, but after that there's some mini unicorns, maybe Knox is one of them and a large number of Tyler Kroft, Hooper types. 

 

Who was the FA TE the Bills signed 6 or 7 years ago from Miami who was going to be great, but ended up being average.

Problem is that Kelce is pretty much a generational talent at TE.  Hard to fine those. 

[WideNine]

6 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

The guy drafted by Denver then traded last year to Seattle as part of the Wilson trade??

 

Nah... was entrigued back in '19 by Josh Oliver - size speed and very good hands out of San Jose and more of a catcher than a blocker. What I liked and what I thought Allen needed back then was a big target with a great catching radius, hands, and ability to get contested balls. The Bills had a shot at him in the draft, but he was picked up by the Jags. Tested out well at the combine too. 

 

But then all the injuries and he was finally traded to the Ravens. Now he looks a lot more bulky and like his best fit would be limited role as blocking TE, although he has caught some short EZ passes for TDs for them.

We got the better end of the deal with Knox, especially when it comes to the durability aspect. 

[Pete]

7 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

It unreal...but it appears like they drafted Boogie because they missed on Epenesa, then missed even worse by drafting Boogie. He looks like hot garbage in run defense, kid couldn't set the table let alone set the edge. 

We all knew Creed Humphrey was a sure thing. 

Boogie was by far the highest rated player on Bills board and BPA

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 12/18/2022 at 4:52 PM, BillsShredder83 said:

Ton of hindsight here. That season we were comin off afccg loss to kc. We couldnt do anything to slow him, and our offense was at its peak.

 

Looking back, two des wasnt crazy at all. Hoping development still mskes this look like the best decision

No hindsight I actually thought at that time the Bills were going to draft Humphrey. Humphrey should of been a first rd pick . If u wanna talk about the KC game in the playoffs our interior Oline got there asses kicked as well. We couldn’t run block or pass block. The point is McD uses to much assets on our defense while leaving our offense out to dry especially on the Oline it’s an imbalance that needs to be addressed.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 12/20/2022 at 2:28 AM, Pete said:

Boogie was by far the highest rated player on Bills board and BPA

Boogie wasn’t the highest rated player on the board in general some draftniks had him as 3rd/4th rd pick. He was a guy McD wanted that was McD pick and it was a horrible pick at the time and still is a horrible pick. Beane needs to have full control of the draft and address both sides of the ball equally. If u look at our drafts most of the higher rd pks are spent on the defense especially on the dline . The problem with that is we’re not getting a influx of young talent on the Oline, Wrs and other positions of the defense such as safety Hyde and Poyer are getting old we need to have there replacements in house. 

On 12/18/2022 at 2:59 PM, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

And then wasting a pick on Bernard over Parham is unacceptable too. My worry is Beane isn’t good at drafting o lineman either. Spencer Brown sucks. 

U can add RB to the list of Beane sucks at drafting as well. 

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Boogie wasn’t the highest rated player on the board in general some draftniks had him as 3rd/4th rd pick. He was a guy McD wanted that was McD pick and it was a horrible pick at the time and still is a horrible pick. Beane needs to have full control of the draft and address both sides of the ball equally. If u look at our drafts most of the higher rd pks are spent on the defense especially on the dline . The problem with that is we’re not getting a influx of young talent on the Oline, Wrs and other positions of the defense such as safety Hyde and Poyer are getting old we need to have there replacements in house. 

U can add RB to the list of Beane sucks at drafting as well. 

Adding Gregory Rousseau, the defensive end from Miami who two seasons ago finished second in the nation in sacks, wasn''t good enough for the Buffalo Bills. They had to have Wake Forest defensive end Carlos "Boogie" Basham Jr. in the second round too.

In fact, if they couldn't get him with the 61st overall pick, they were going to trade down, according to general manager Brandon Beane.

"What we try to do prior to the draft is just set us up to take the best player on our board," he said. "That's what we've done."

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/bills-hit-their-target-with-boogie-basham

Edited December 21, 2022 by Pete

[John from Riverside]

On 12/19/2022 at 11:47 AM, Airseven said:

I agree with most everything Cowherd said this morning. Dolphins outplayed and out-coached the Bills, but Allen won the game. It’s amazing they’re stuck in this same spot over-relying on Allen going into yet another postseason. It’s not sustainable. Yes, 3 of the first 5 picks need to be OL (and they should’ve been last spring too!).

I don’t get it it’s like you post everything the opposite of reality

 

in the first fins game, we totally controlled the time of possession for the whole game and barely lost with that also be a case of the bills coaching, coaching the Miami’s coaching

 

In the second game, we played to our strengths, and we won

 

Miami is not out coaching us as a matter fact it’s the exact opposite, because Miami is better at many offensive positions than we are except for one

 

Our coaching is beating their talent