2021 Allen Compared to 2022 Allen

[loyal2dagame]

41 minutes ago, Logic said:

I concede all of those points.

I do have a simple question, though.

In spite all of the problems you mentioned, if Josh Allen hadn't thrown the picks in the red zone that he has thrown the past two weeks, do you believe the Bills would still have lost those games?
 

Our defense has flaws. Our offense has flaws. Our personnel, largely due to injury, has holes. Despite all of that, it is my contention that Josh Allen suddenly playing like the 2019 version of himself is the main reason that the Bills have lost the past two games. It is my belief that, even with the flaws this team has and the injuries it's struggling through, if Josh wasn't suddenly throwing boneheaded interceptions -- particularly in the red zone -- the Bills would be 8-1.

 

I don't know if we win or lose those games without the picks. Our defense can give up huge runs, and our QB is still prone to fumble. Interceptions aside, the Bills looked like hot garbage in the second half of both games.

 

The issues with the Bills, other than the injuries, are all correctable and should have already been addressed by the coaching staff.

 

But...here we are.

[GunnerBill]

47 minutes ago, Logic said:

I concede all of those points.

I do have a simple question, though.

In spite all of the problems you mentioned, if Josh Allen hadn't thrown the picks in the red zone that he has thrown the past two weeks, do you believe the Bills would still have lost those games?
 

Our defense has flaws. Our offense has flaws. Our personnel, largely due to injury, has holes. Despite all of that, it is my contention that Josh Allen suddenly playing like the 2019 version of himself is the main reason that the Bills have lost the past two games. It is my belief that, even with the flaws this team has and the injuries it's struggling through, if Josh wasn't suddenly throwing boneheaded interceptions -- particularly in the red zone -- the Bills would be 8-1.

 

Exactly where I am. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It was Josh and Mitch who gave up a touchdown when the game was all but over tho.

 

I put the miss on Josh. I think he just missed it. But go watch the playcall. They all run to the endzone. They did on 1st down as well I think. Beats me what the playcall was.

I’ve watched it like 400 times because something just didn’t add up lol it’s a double post and the concept worked so it was Davis with a step on Peterson with no extra help.  There’s two different route options that would’ve worked there and josh threw it to one on a bullet and gabe ran to the other one that would’ve required a lob.  Could be a massive coincidence and just an absolutely terrible throw but I’m not so sure that’s the case.  
 

this is certainly not to just blindly defend josh against criticism…he’s had some absolutely terrible throws that were entirely his fault the past few weeks 

 

but this was not our typical ‘he just didn’t see that defender’ situation.  This was straight up man and Peterson was beat 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

25 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

 

I just don't go end zone there - its 2nd and 10 we needed yards.  Situational football.  

How’d you feel about the first down play to Knox that probably should’ve been hung on to?  I think the 2nd down play should’ve been even more likely to result in a td/first down near the goal line if Davis/josh were on the same page but somebody for sure blew it.  Easy to blame josh cuz he fumbled the game away in regulation but I’m not sure that’s the case.  
 

either way this team seems pretty terrified of goal to go situations and both Knox/Davis had position on their defenders in single coverage 

 

it looked gnarly on the broadcast angle cuz something went horribly wrong there lol but the route concept on that final play definitely worked 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

How’d you feel about the first down play to Knox that probably should’ve been hung on to?  I think the 2nd down play should’ve been even more likely to result in a td/first down near the goal line if Davis/josh were on the same page but somebody for sure blew it.  Easy to blame josh cuz he fumbled the game away in regulation but I’m not sure that’s the case.  
 

either way this team seems pretty terrified of goal to go situations and both Knox/Davis had position on their defenders in single coverage 

 

it looked gnarly on the broadcast angle cuz something went horribly wrong there lol but the route concept on that final play definitely worked 

 

I agree Knox should have caught the 1st down play. Tough catch but makeable. Disagree with you a bit on the final play. Don't think that throw was ever on no matter what Davis did. The one that possibly was on was Morris if he got the ball out quicker but I get game on the line you wanna go to one of your guys. Josh just forced a ball you should not throw IMO.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree Knox should have caught the 1st down play. Tough catch but makeable. Disagree with you a bit on the final play. Don't think that throw was ever on no matter what Davis did. The one that possibly was on was Morris if he got the ball out quicker but I get game on the line you wanna go to one of your guys. Josh just forced a ball you should not throw IMO.

Admittedly I’m not even 100% sure…it could’ve just been a throw that was so awful that it looked like Davis was supposed to run a different route 😂 

It’s just so puzzling because the concept worked and it was single coverage with really no gimmicks or wrinkles and Davis won.  There’s almost no way that play can end in an int so naturally that’s what happened haha 

 

originally it looked like Allen just panicked and launched the ball into triple coverage from the broadcast angle so I was really surprised when I saw some different angles 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[1onemangang7]

Steve Young just said it pretty good. Jack hammer to violin. Tough to do. Loads too big one one guy coaching decisions have to perfect. 

[julian]

When the going gets tough, the cry babies can’t wait to warn others of the impending Doom.

[What a Tuel]

6 minutes ago, julian said:

When the going gets tough, the cry babies can’t wait to warn others of the impending Doom.

 

And the most annoying part about it is they exist in every fan base so the majority are "proven" right each year the respective team doesn't win a super bowl.

 

I use the words proven right loosely because I bet a certain subset of rams fans were doing the same thing to their forum when they got railroaded by the Titans, 49ers and Packers in a row around this time last year.

 

9Sun, Nov 7

vsTennessee

L28-16

@San Francisco

L31-10

11BYE WEEK

@Green Bay

L36-28

Edited November 15, 2022 by What a Tuel

[UKBillFan]

On the stages of sporting grief I’m currently at anger and it’s twenty to one in the morning here but I can’t shake this albeit controversial opinion…

 

I don’t trust Josh. Physically he’s the best Quarterback in the league bar none. Mentally he’s one of the worst. He’s coming across as having no respect for the ball or the opposition. The picks that he’s throwing are, for the most part, ridiculous. He seems incapable of learning lessons offered in preceding games.  He is not a rookie but, more often that not, he plays like one.

 

He could put five hundred yards and 10 touchdowns on the Browns and I still won’t trust him. This hero play is always there, under the surface, and it appears far too often for him to be anything about a thrilling, talented player but with flaws which means he won’t match expectations. I thought he was turning himself around with the run from the Wildcard game to the first half of the Packers, which hurts the most and is probably why I’m so fed up now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1onemangang7]

I been saying over 80 percent of the offense cause I saw the stat. Young gets specific says 86 percent of the touchdowns and 82 percent of the yards. Defends the turnovers with the switch from jack hammer to traditional qb duties he says guy like Brady only have to be concerned with. The switch to violin after dragging and running over linebackers is too much to ask one guy suggests a running game to help. ..says they gotta find a way to lighten his load....I agree 100. You already have the quarterback.  It's the toughest piece to find. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Don't think that throw was ever on no matter what Davis did.

 

This is the best angle I've seen of it:

 

It is actually NOT a bad decision. The window is there IF Davis flattens his route and keeps his leverage in front of Peterson. When Allen releases the ball Davis starts angling into the endzone and Peterson cuts underneath to intercept it. It's also possible that Allen misread it and should have thrown the ball further towards the back of the endzone. Nobody knows. But I actually feel better about the decision after seeing this angle.

[GunnerBill]

48 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is the best angle I've seen of it:

 

It is actually NOT a bad decision. The window is there IF Davis flattens his route and keeps his leverage in front of Peterson. When Allen releases the ball Davis starts angling into the endzone and Peterson cuts underneath to intercept it. It's also possible that Allen misread it and should have thrown the ball further towards the back of the endzone. Nobody knows. But I actually feel better about the decision after seeing this angle.

 

It's a forced ball IMO.

[78thealltimegreat]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It was Josh and Mitch who gave up a touchdown when the game was all but over tho.

 

I put the pick on Josh. I think he just missed it. But go watch the playcall. They all run to the endzone. They did on 1st down as well I think. Beats me what the thought behind the playcall was.

It wasn’t Josh and Mitch after the game was tied again that promptly allowed the Vikings to drive to the 5 yard line on the next drive 

[GunnerBill]

42 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

It wasn’t Josh and Mitch after the game was tied again that promptly allowed the Vikings to drive to the 5 yard line on the next drive 

 

Agree but it should never have come to that. A depleted defense makes a stand like that at the end of the game the offense has a responsibility not to lose it the next play. 

 

Offense was the reason we lost yesterday. Even on a day when the defense had its first real bad day of the season. 

 

You cannot have two turnovers that take points off the board in the redzone and one that gives points away in your own endzone. You just can't. We have to make fewer mistakes. 

[Lost]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

It is actually NOT a bad decision. The window is there IF Davis flattens his route and keeps his leverage in front of Peterson. When Allen releases the ball Davis starts angling into the endzone and Peterson cuts underneath to intercept it. It's also possible that Allen misread it and should have thrown the ball further towards the back of the endzone. Nobody knows. But I actually feel better about the decision after seeing this angle.

 

 

Agree, the TV angle made it look like horrid judgement and pass but really the Gabe target and timing was spot on throw just ended up a little behind.  

 

[mykidsdad]

Number 1. Josh is Amazing. A super freak. And we are spoiled if we pick his game apart. He will be fine.

Number 2. Our defense is very banged up. We have 0 starting safeties and only 1 of 3 starting corners on the field. It is very simple. We will get better when we are healthier on the backend. Scoring 30 is going to win you a lot of games.

Number 3. Josh reminds me of Favre. He is Favre 2.0. There will be good with the bad. And a lot more good than bad. Watching Favre was a rollercoaster, but fans got used to it. We will, too. (Did I mention josh is a super freak?)

 

[Nuncha]

9 hours ago, gridirongold said:

You guys should really do something else with your time if you think this teams problems lie with the quarterback. 

The last 10 quarters plus OT our QB has been an issue.  You are blind if you think otherwise. 

[Mango]

9 hours ago, SCBills said:

I don't know... I go back and forth, but I think we all forget how poorly Josh played in the middle portion of the season last year until Tampa Bay 2nd Half.

 

The difference, to me, is I don't remember Josh having so many throws that literally don't make any sense.  He struggled with the Cover 2 shell teams threw at us - If y'all remember, the Bills and Chiefs were both going through slumps.   However, in the last 10 quarters, he's had about 4 turnovers where in a re-watch of the play, either he and the WR are on different planets as to what was supposed to happen, or defenders are literally invisible to him at times.  Including the throw that lost the game yesterday where it was 5 yards off target of any Bills player and thrown into a mess of coverage for no reason. 

He’s also not going through progressions the last 3 weeks. On the all-22 he’s decided where the ball is going pre-snap. He looks past open guys to go for the home run. 
 

It’s weird. I don’t get it. It also, he’s been this guy before so I don’t know. I think we have to accept as a fan base this is sorta who he is. Favre had a HOF career doing the same thing. Josh will do the same. 
 

I think Daboll protected us from this a little bit more. He’d call the same play over and over again. Roll Josh right, run 3 crossers at 3 levels across the field with somebody on a curl in front as well. Dorsey has to get call the plays that hide this part of Josh. But also, it’s year 5, the league will figure it out.
 

 

[1onemangang7]

14 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

The last 10 quarters plus OT our QB has been an issue.  You are blind if you think otherwise. 

No bro you're just dumb. 

[streetkings01]

I feel the same way about him that I felt about Fitzpatrick ……can’t trust him right now.

[1onemangang7]

46 minutes ago, Mango said:

He’s also not going through progressions the last 3 weeks. On the all-22 he’s decided where the ball is going pre-snap. He looks past open guys to go for the home run. 
 

It’s weird. I don’t get it. It also, he’s been this guy before so I don’t know. I think we have to accept as a fan base this is sorta who he is. Favre had a HOF career doing the same thing. Josh will do the same. 
 

I think Daboll protected us from this a little bit more. He’d call the same play over and over again. Roll Josh right, run 3 crossers at 3 levels across the field with somebody on a curl in front as well. Dorsey has to get call the plays that hide this part of Josh. But also, it’s year 5, the league will figure it out.
 

 

What are you guys watching? He's a one man gang. 

[2003Contenders]

I think a crash course in Risk Management would do Josh (and the coaching staff) some good. LOL

 

Josh is a wild stallion, and you do not want to take his swagger away from him -- but the wildness needs to be placed in check, and he needs to learn to better tread that fine line between being a gunslinger and being reckless. I mean, there is a time to play "Hero Ball" -- when the chips are down and a big play is a MUST. 2nd down, in sure tying-FG-range with plenty of time on the clock was not such a time.

[Bills!Win!]

Has anyone been monitoring Josh and making sure he’s listening to his pregame Sinatra? This might be the key 

[ArdmoreRyno]

Josh's current pace.... 

 

4,650 yards

34 touchdowns

17 INTs 

 

810 rushing yards

7 touchdowns 

8 fumbles

 

5,460 total yards

41 total TDs

25 total turnovers

[Alphadawg7]

On 11/14/2022 at 9:04 AM, BuffaloBaumer said:

Aside from the obvious interception stat, I feel totally different now when I see Allen drop back for a pass. Last year, if he got rid of the ball relatively quickly, and threw the deep ball, I could not wait to see where that ball was going as you just knew it was going to be a big play. The same could be said when he rolled out and created more time, you just knew when he released it that something big was about to happen.

 

Now, it's back to the old panic attack as a fan and when he releases it, you just hope it's not another interception. When he threw that ball in OT on 2nd down and released it pretty quickly, I was CONVINCED someone must be WIDE OPEN. It was just so bizarre to see that it was another ball that was not even remotely close to his own receiver. Eventually, I'm sure he will shake this stretch of bad throws off but man, it really was quite a comfort watching him before, totally spoiled.

 

 

 

Geezus...2 weeks ago he was way out in front as the MVP.  Last week he was tied still as the fave for MVP.

 

Guy has a couple bad moments in the 2nd half of a couple games and now all of a sudden everything Allen has done is forgotten and people grossly over exaggerate the situation.  

 

This board is impossible to keep even keel.  Its always one extreme to the next. 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

Josh has played like a rookie the last 11 quarters.  He will be the first to tell you he's played like crap.  So I guess Josh is dumb too right?  LMAO at you.

 

No he has not.  The fact you said that tells me you don't know anything about football or you are too rooted in your biased opinion to remain objective.  

 

So you are saying Josh had a bad first half against the Vikings?  Are you serious?  Why because Devin got two of the TD's instead of Allen throwing them?  

 

What a ridiculous and ill informed comment.  2 of his 3 mistakes were the fumble at end of game and pick in OT.  But keep saying the ignorant statement he has been bad for 11 straight quarters.  Man this board is ridiculous.

[Nuncha]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No he has not.  The fact you said that tells me you don't know anything about football or you are too rooted in your biased opinion to remain objective.  

 

So you are saying Josh had a bad first half against the Vikings?  Are you serious?  Why because Devin got two of the TD's instead of Allen throwing them?  

 

What a ridiculous and ill informed comment.  2 of his 3 mistakes were the fumble at end of game and pick in OT.  But keep saying the ignorant statement he has been bad for 11 straight quarters.  Man this board is ridiculous.

I don't care if you agree or not, maybe watch his post-game interviews where he himself said he played like garbage.  He pretty much lost MVP consideration the last 3 games and lost his swag.  The two interceptions against the Packers and Jets were beyond horrible, three turnovers against the Vikes, the second interception lost the damn game.  You want to say he played great that's your opinion, but clearly he has regressed.  7 turnovers the last 11 quarters and the end result is 3rd place in the AFC East.

 

For the first time in his CAREER he has thrown two interceptions in three straight games.  

 

Last 3 games:

 

60 of 102 (58.8%) 753 yards 3 TD's 6 INT's

 

The numbers say it all.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Azucho98

[BuffaloBaumer]

21 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Geezus...2 weeks ago he was way out in front as the MVP.  Last week he was tied still as the fave for MVP.

 

Guy has a couple bad moments in the 2nd half of a couple games and now all of a sudden everything Allen has done is forgotten and people grossly over exaggerate the situation.  

 

This board is impossible to keep even keel.  Its always one extreme to the next. 

 

I think what has people panicking is that Buffalo was firmly in the driver seat to host KC and now all roads lead through Arrowhead

[78thealltimegreat]

This kid since he was drafted honestly gets treated worse then Kyle Orton.  
Last year after he had a rough game against Pittsburgh people where throwing his jersey on the highway outside the stadium.

Without Josh this team is in the CJ Stroud sweepstakes. 

[2003Contenders]

37 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No he has not.  The fact you said that tells me you don't know anything about football or you are too rooted in your biased opinion to remain objective.  

 

So you are saying Josh had a bad first half against the Vikings?  Are you serious?  Why because Devin got two of the TD's instead of Allen throwing them?  

 

What a ridiculous and ill informed comment.  2 of his 3 mistakes were the fumble at end of game and pick in OT.  But keep saying the ignorant statement he has been bad for 11 straight quarters.  Man this board is ridiculous.

 

And I would even make the contrarian point that, despite all the struggles the last couple of games, Josh has actually been clutch too.

 

Against the Jets, he was on point on that final drive -- throwing a 70-yard pass on a dime to Davis AFTER the injury to the elbow. Sandwiched between the two bad plays you referenced on Sunday was the great drive with 40 seconds left to get the Bills into scoring range to force OT. In fact, if the defender does not make a calculated move to interfere with Davis on the last play before the kick, that is likely a walk-off TD to end regulation. Even in overtime, Josh was marching down the field using both his arm and legs. The next-to-last pass should have been the game winning TD to Knox. Still not excusing the ill-advised game ending INT, because regardless of whose fault it was, that was a pass that should never have been thrown.

 

I just find it interesting that, aside from a few plays, Josh played an excellent game against the Vikings. (Again, not arguing that those few bad plays weren't killers.) Meanwhile, we have Von Miller who was invisible most of the game -- and allowed Cousins to have plenty of time and a clean pocket to throw the ball downfield against our depleted secondary time and time again. But Miller does make 1 or 2 big plays, and that is all anyone remembers.

[Nuncha]

1 minute ago, 1onemangang7 said:

Look at the teams rushing numbers. Remember all those superbowl qbs who lead their team in rushing? Tom Brady did it how many times? Now go fck yourself I'm not educating your dumb ass anymore . You're too stupid to get it.

Tom Brady didn't have to run the ball because historically his teams had really strong running games. So genius what does that have to do with Josh playing like a rookie (I'll get specific for you) PASSING the football and making BAD decisions THROWING the ball that cost us two consecutive games?

[Turbo44]

2 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

Josh's current pace.... 

 

4,650 yards

34 touchdowns

17 INTs 

 

810 rushing yards

7 touchdowns 

8 fumbles

 

5,460 total yards

41 total TDs

25 total turnovers

Way Better projected actually:

 

5,162 yards

38 touchdowns

19 INTs 

 

899 rushing yards

8 touchdowns 

9 fumbles

 

6,061 total yards

46 total TDs

[Turbo44]

and the 6061 total yards would set an NFL record by 400 or 500 yards (Drew Brees).  Once he stops throwing INT's (and he will), all will be better than fine

[ArdmoreRyno]

6 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Way Better projected actually:

 

5,162 yards

38 touchdowns

19 INTs 

 

899 rushing yards

8 touchdowns 

9 fumbles

 

6,061 total yards

46 total TDs

 

You're right, I was thinking week 10 = 10 games instead of 9. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

 

I think what has people panicking is that Buffalo was firmly in the driver seat to host KC and now all roads lead through Arrowhead

 

So what, we are 3-0 in our last 3 games at Arrowhead.  Our official record says 2-1 thanks to a bone headed blunder by a ST Coordinator who is now in Jax causing chaos by not telling our kicker to squib it.  

 

This whole notion we can't win in KC is loser talk.  We beat them decisively twice and basically beat them a third time when both QB's played out of their mind if not for a self inflicted blunder and bad luck of a coin toss.  

1 hour ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

You're right, I was thinking week 10 = 10 games instead of 9. 

 

So Josh is on pace to shatter the total yards mark by 500 yards and you on here panicking?  Got it.  

[ArdmoreRyno]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

So what, we are 3-0 in our last 3 games at Arrowhead.  Our official record says 2-1 thanks to a bone headed blunder by a ST Coordinator who is now in Jax causing chaos by not telling our kicker to squib it.  

 

This whole notion we can't win in KC is loser talk.  We beat them decisively twice and basically beat them a third time when both QB's played out of their mind if not for a self inflicted blunder and bad luck of a coin toss.  

 

So Josh is on pace to shatter the total yards mark by 500 yards and you on here panicking?  Got it.  

 

How exactly am I "panicking" by posting what he's on pace for (I did it to show he's sorta on par with last season)? 

 

Let me know.... 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

On 11/14/2022 at 12:04 PM, BuffaloBaumer said:

Aside from the obvious interception stat, I feel totally different now when I see Allen drop back for a pass. Last year, if he got rid of the ball relatively quickly, and threw the deep ball, I could not wait to see where that ball was going as you just knew it was going to be a big play. The same could be said when he rolled out and created more time, you just knew when he released it that something big was about to happen.

 

Now, it's back to the old panic attack as a fan and when he releases it, you just hope it's not another interception. When he threw that ball in OT on 2nd down and released it pretty quickly, I was CONVINCED someone must be WIDE OPEN. It was just so bizarre to see that it was another ball that was not even remotely close to his own receiver. Eventually, I'm sure he will shake this stretch of bad throws off but man, it really was quite a comfort watching him before, totally spoiled.

 

 

I blame Dorsey for this !!!

[Nuncha]

49 minutes ago, 1onemangang7 said:

Furthermore, you dumb fck, the guy is injured and they're wrecking your franchise quarterback cause he is the offense by himself. They showed they don't know what they're doing drafting cook. So they leave him in there when he should be mending. Drag linebackers then read defenses. Then say hey you need to be more careful with the ball. Fck all that. Give it to Singletary and punt and play defense or get an NFL size runner to help. 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

43 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

 

 

This stat actually supports the post that 10nemangang7 made. 

 

*  In the first half of the last three games Allen has been brilliant both throwing and running the football:  He scored 5 TD's with only one turnover (an INT).  He led the Bills to 62 points and leads in all 3 games.  Two of the leads were by double digits.

 

*  In the 2nd half the lack of an NFL quality running game forced the Bills to play a weird hybrid brand of offensive football where they passed as a substitute for running. At the same time the Bills defense either gave up game changing explosive plays - versus the Vikings - or allowed the Jets & Packers to go on long time consuming drives.  As a result Allen and the O got antsy and tried forcing the issue to get the game clinching TD.

 

The failure of the Bills to adequately address the deficiencies in their running game over the last four years is shameful.  It's a problem that EVERYONE has identified but they have been unable to fix. Until they do fix this you will continue to get uneven performances out of Allen and O in the 2nd half.