Is There So Little Love for Tremaine Edmunds?

[Patrick Duffy]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Edmunds has had his issues in 2020 and 2021. He has never been as bad as his detractors suggest but he has also never been as good as his very vociferous supporters sometimes claim. The truth the last two years has been somewhere in the middle. In 2022 he has been one of the Bills best players and if he keeps this pace up has a legit shot at all pro votes. Whether you look at the eye test, the pure numbers or the advanced analytics they all back that up. 

 

Yup I agree....although I have seen quite a few post not long ago posters claimed his big improvement in play is due to "it's expected because it's a contract year". Have seen that statement posted multiple times and can't believe how one could in all honesty come to that conclusion....

 

I don't see how one can refuse to acknowledge the complete revamp of Bills Dline with addition of Von Miller along with how HUGE the improvement is/has been playing, also could say it's best Dline in Buffalo has had in a very long time..especially pass rush/pressure the QB...

 

How could one not clearly see the way Dline has been killing it up front not a big factor in making Edmunds job so much easier? I mean this is the best Dline Edmunds has ever had in front of him since he's been a Bill. I can't see how one refuses to state the obvious and comes up with he's improved because "it's a contract year" and being serious/honest saying it. So guess it must be some other agenda or something 

[SoCal Deek]

This isn’t complicated. Edmunds problems are due to his strengths. While his tall, athletic frame make him ideal in space, those same physical proportions give him trouble in a crowd, and in one on one tackling. I’ve generally been a detractor but it looks to me like they’ve been working on his tackling technique. He has trouble getting his pads to be lower than the guy he’s taking on and therefore often loses the leverage battle you hear so much about.

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

This isn’t complicated. Edmunds problems are due to his strengths. While his tall, athletic frame make him ideal in space, those same physical proportions give him trouble in a crowd, and in one on one tackling. I’ve generally been a detractor but it looks to me like they’ve been working on his tackling technique. He has trouble getting his pads to be lower than the guy he’s taking on and therefore often loses the leverage battle you hear so much about.

 

I have seen him make some good one on one tackles this season. Some of them being big time hits. So not sure about that

[SoCal Deek]

14 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

I have seen him make some good one on one tackles this season. Some of them being big time hits. So not sure about that

If you read my entire post you’ll see where I mentioned his improvement this season. 

[Shaw66]

16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

This isn’t complicated. Edmunds problems are due to his strengths. While his tall, athletic frame make him ideal in space, those same physical proportions give him trouble in a crowd, and in one on one tackling. I’ve generally been a detractor but it looks to me like they’ve been working on his tackling technique. He has trouble getting his pads to be lower than the guy he’s taking on and therefore often loses the leverage battle you hear so much about.

I agree about this.   Prior to this season, it was very unusual to see him get low enough AND be in position to drive into a ball carrier with his shoulders.   This year, he looks different.   He still isn't a classic wrap n roll tackler, but he's definitely lower, and now that he's lower, he seems to be missing tackles less.  

 

Plus, here's a pure guess on my part, but this tackling issue is probably just larger than tackling.  I would guess that Edmunds came to the NFL less well-prepared, fundamentally, than a lot of guys.  He was young, that's for sure.  I know his dad coached him and all, but a guy that big and agile had to be tackling guys in high school, and maybe even in college, just by overwhelming ball carriers.  He was bigger, stronger, faster.   I'd guess that the details of footwork, for example, were not nearly as critical to his success at lower levels than for a guy like Bernard, who apparently really studied the game to achieve what he did in college.  I would be surprised if there weren't a lot of fundamental issues that he's had to learn, including reading offenses.  

 

This season, we may be seeing his emergence after years of growth.  McDermott and Beane may think that we've only just begun to see what he can do.   I don't know, obviously, but he certainly seems to be a better player this season.  If he's just coming into his prime now, Beane will write the check.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

This board is going to melt down when he does sign.    

 

This board is going to melt down when he does or does not sign and in both cases Beane will be blamed.  Some posters will blame him either way.

[Buddo]

I don't think Edmunds makes the amount of impact plays he could do, simply because he isn't tasked with making them. He's made a number of effective blitzes over the years, and if he does blitz, it's more often than not successful in at least disrupting the opponents scripted play.

 

Frazier and McDermott like to use him to get in the QBs eyeline, making them think (some) passing avenues aren't open. I think they also want him as a sort of safety valve of the front seven, as others have pointed out, better than me, where he's the guy who has to stop things developing into big plays.

 

Generally, the Bills D has performed better when he's been available.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Bills look to re-sign him. In fact, I expect them to. My biggest concerns are with how much he might have to be paid to stay. I think his reputation around the NFL, is far greater than it is on this MB, and he's not going to come as cheaply as Milano, at all.

 

We don't even remotely have a 'like for like' replacement on the roster, and if he does go, I think we will be having to change how the D plays - as we had to when he was injured the other year.

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

 

To claim that Edmunds "is slow to read plays, has poor instincts, couldn't shed a block if there was a billion dollars behind the blocker, is a soft tackler, and despite the athleticism to keep up with WRs is terrible in pass coverage," would have been an exaggeration two years ago. He's certainly had some disappointing play in the past, but this season, he has been playing exceptionally well, and has become an above average LB (I would say better than that), and an intrinsic element to a very good defense. 

 

Your criticism of him not only ignores any improvements he has made (and they seem pretty undeniable to me), but it borders on disdain. You've gone as far as to somehow hold his exceptional athleticism against him, implying that he doesn't know how to use his own athletic ability. You post with the confidence of someone who has watched his play closely, but your observations just don't line up with what he has done in 2022. It seems like you were "pretty convinced" before the season started, and are not willing to reassess the player based on his current level of play.

That's the opposite of what I've done. He's a world class athlete and I acknowledge that. What i said was his athleticism is all he has going for him. As for his height - yes I also believe that is a problem, because he has very poor technique and doesn't get low enough on blocks or tackles to use the leverage that his length would provide and instead it works against him.

As for his play being markedly better this year, it's an improvement over the last two years, but only in results -  results that can be explained by the play of the Dline in front of him. Edmunds is still making the same soft tackles, still getting caught in the garbage, still making mistakes in coverage, still taking incorrect first steps, etc.

I will absolutely agree I was "pretty convinced" before the season. I've been pretty convinced for 4 years. However, I would absolutely change my opinion of him if he gave me reason to, just like I did with Allen years ago.

He hasn't, and I'm betting he won't 5 seasons into the league.

Edited November 4, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Buddo said:

I don't think Edmunds makes the amount of impact plays he could do, simply because he isn't tasked with making them. He's made a number of effective blitzes over the years, and if he does blitz, it's more often than not successful in at least disrupting the opponents scripted play.

 

Frazier and McDermott like to use him to get in the QBs eyeline, making them think (some) passing avenues aren't open. I think they also want him as a sort of safety valve of the front seven, as others have pointed out, better than me, where he's the guy who has to stop things developing into big plays.

 

Generally, the Bills D has performed better when he's been available.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Bills look to re-sign him. In fact, I expect them to. My biggest concerns are with how much he might have to be paid to stay. I think his reputation around the NFL, is far greater than it is on this MB, and he's not going to come as cheaply as Milano, at all.

 

We don't even remotely have a 'like for like' replacement on the roster, and if he does go, I think we will be having to change how the D plays - as we had to when he was injured the other year.

Dodson showed up on the stats sheet nearly identical to a typical Edmunds game when he spot started for him this year. I don't think Dodson is the answer, but I think it's telling that we didn't get exploited at a significantly higher rate while he was there. He did make one big whiff of a coverage play that I saw.

I think Edmunds' replacement comes in the 1st round next year. We could still use a Kuechly.

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Dodson showed up on the stats sheet nearly identical to a typical Edmunds game when he spot started for him this year. I don't think Dodson is the answer, but I think it's telling that we didn't get exploited at a significantly higher rate while he was there. He did make one big whiff of a coverage play that I saw.

I think Edmunds' replacement comes in the 1st round next year. We could still use a Kuechly.

Well, one game isn't much to go on, but that's an interesting point.  McDermott's defense doesn't rely (much) on stars.  Obviously, if McD thinks a good solid talent - like Milano - could fill the middle, they won't spend $20 million a year to keep him.  

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

If you read my entire post you’ll see where I mentioned his improvement this season. 

I did read entire post. Of course he's improved. I didn't say or imply you denied such improvement. I specifically referred to the part of your post that said, "he has trouble with one on one tackling". That's why I put that particular sentence from your post in bold. Not sure how you must have misinterpreted that or if you  may have mixed my post up with a different person? Anyways....just wanted to clarify....

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes. 

 

And the fundamental point that people seem to miss is that this is a bend-don't-break defense and not a big play defense.   Edmunds' critics complain that he doesn't make big plays, but in the middle of this defense, that's not his job.   His job is to make sure the defense doesn't break.  That means he plays a more passive role, cleaning up for the d line when the d line is unable to make a play, roaming the middle so that the ball goes deep or outside, where the playmakers are.  

 

It's funny how people argue with the results.   Bills are third in yards allowed per game this season, and since Edmunds arrived they have finished 14th once, and third, second, and first.  How could that be if the middle linebacker has no instincts and can't tackle?  If he's that bad, when they replace him with a real linebacker, offenses will go three and out all day long.  It will be shut-out heaven.   

Ok so during those last 2 plays in the KC (13 seconds) game, TE was doing what he always does roaming the middle of the field in that "bend don't break" zone.  Then everything broke.  What's the point of bending if you're going to eventually break. We had 4 straight years of "bend don't break" in the early 90's. How'd that work out?

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Ok so during those last 2 plays in the KC (13 seconds) game, TE was doing what he always does roaming the middle of the field in that "bend don't break" zone.  Then everything broke.  What's the point of bending if you're going to eventually break. We had 4 straight years of "bend don't break" in the early 90's. How'd that work out?

I feel like we've been running "Bend Don't Break" most of my life and they always break when it matters.

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, Patrick Duffy said:

I did read entire post. Of course he's improved. I didn't say or imply you denied such improvement. I specifically referred to the part of your post that said, "he has trouble with one on one tackling". That's why I put that particular sentence from your post in bold. Not sure how you must have misinterpreted that or if you  may have mixed my post up with a different person? Anyways....just wanted to clarify....

 

 

It’s all good. What I mentioned is that it appears he’s gotten some technical coaching on his tackling technique. He still tends to go in too high at times, which I believe is his biggest flaw, I see him learning to use leverage more and more. With that said, while his tackling has improved against running backs, he still struggles mightily when engaged by an offensive lineman. Again here, I think it’s a center of gravity (leverage) problem. 

[Nephilim17]

In a passing league, you obviously want to allocate a good chunk of the limited capital to the D line but how much more major money should go to the LB corps?

First, let's split the difference and say Edmunds is good (not bad or even mediocre) but good to very good.

 

How much is a good to very good MLB worth in a passing league when you have to pay a franchise QB? 

What's the cap not just on Tremaine, but the positional value? I'm just ballparking, but when you have to pay Josh, the men who keep him upright and catch his passes, I think MLB might have a cap of maybe, what $12-$14 million tops?

What do others think? Question 2 is: will Tremaine settle for what you think the cap on the position of MLB is worth? We've seen many a Bill leave for greener ($) pastures.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Nephilim17

[BarleyNY]

12 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

In a passing league, you obviously want to allocate a good chunk of the limited capital to the D line but how much more major money should go to the LB corps?

First, let's split the difference and say Edmunds is good (not bad or even mediocre) but good to very good.

 

How much is a good to very good MLB worth in a passing league when you have to pay a franchise QB? 

What's the cap not just on Tremaine, but the positional value? I'm just ballparking, but when you have to pay Josh, the men who keep him upright and catch his passes, I think MLB might have a cap of maybe, what $12-$14 million tops?

What do others think? Question 2 is: will Tremaine settle for what you think the cap on the position of MLB is worth? We've seen many a Bill leave for greener ($) pastures.

Positional importance is a big factor IMO. To pay a MLB large, they’ve got to be a very special player. Then it can be worth it. It’s just a really high bar for that position. 
 

The top MLBs will be getting $17M-$20M AAV. Edmunds has really taken a step forward this season and that’s obviously great.  But the downside is that he can demand a bigger contract. The Bills couldn’t come to an agreement with him before he took that step so I don’t know how they’ll do it now. I also worry about paying him a lot more than Milano as it could cause issues there. Milano has been the better player for longer. Getting leapfrogged by a guy with one season of play at that level would not sit right with most players. 

[GoBills808]

Where the argument against paying Edmunds devolves into because it might hurt Milano's feelings, I think, is a good place to stop.

[Einstein]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In 2022 he has been one of the Bills best players and if he keeps this pace up has a legit shot at all pro votes. Whether you look at the eye test, the pure numbers or the advanced analytics they all back that up. 

 

PFF enters the chat with a strong “disagree”.

 

He’s not even in the top 15 of LB’s in their grading. Milano is #6 overall though.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

PFF enters the chat with a strong “disagree”.

 

He’s not even in the top 15 of LB’s in their grading. Milano is #6 overall though.

 

He is their 8th highest graded coverage linebacker. Milano is #1. 

 

Edmunds's overall PFF score is dragged down a bit by his run defense. But I think all pro voters are smart enough to realise it is 2022. Being a thumper in the run game is the cherry on top for a linebacker. It matters way less than the other elements.

[Bronxbomber21]

I just didn't understand why Buffalo refused to go 3 LBs no matter how many yards the packers were getting on the ground they were staying in nickel 

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Bronxbomber21 said:

I just didn't understand why Buffalo refused to go 3 LBs no matter how many yards the packers were getting on the ground they were staying in nickel 

They were content with allowing GB to run and waste clock.

[BarleyNY]

7 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Where the argument against paying Edmunds devolves into because it might hurt Milano's feelings, I think, is a good place to stop.

But by and large it is not about feelings, though some players do make emotional decisions. Mostly it’s about the Bills being able to afford both of them if they have to pay them both equitably - especially if they overpay for Edmunds. Milano has two years left on his deal after this season and is 27 now. If Edmunds takes a more reasonable deal it could still work out. But if he’s looking for something more top of the market - and the Bills give it to him - then they won’t be able to keep Milano too. Best case would be a Poyer scenario where he plays out his deal, but that’s best case. 

[Punching Bag]

7 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

PFF enters the chat with a strong “disagree”.

 

He’s not even in the top 15 of LB’s in their grading. Milano is #6 overall though.

 

[Einstein]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He is their 8th highest graded coverage linebacker. Milano is #1. 

 

Edmunds's overall PFF score is dragged down a bit by his run defense. But I think all pro voters are smart enough to realise it is 2022. Being a thumper in the run game is the cherry on top for a linebacker. It matters way less than the other elements.

 

Milano is #1 among coverage linebackers. What an incredible season he is having!

[Shaw66]

15 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Ok so during those last 2 plays in the KC (13 seconds) game, TE was doing what he always does roaming the middle of the field in that "bend don't break" zone.  Then everything broke.  What's the point of bending if you're going to eventually break. We had 4 straight years of "bend don't break" in the early 90's. How'd that work out?

One thing I've learned over the years on fan forums is that posters have styles.   I don't pay a lot of attention to the styles of others, but I understand something about my own style.   My style is to watch what the Bills are doing and to try to understand what they're doing and why.  I don't spend much time worrying about whether management's philosophy is right or wrong because, well, I can't do anything about that.   I mean, I could see over time that Ralph Wilson wasn't particularly good at running football teams, but I couldn't fire him.   I just watch and try to understand what people are trying to.  In threads about Edmunds, I try to understand how the Bills are using him and whether the Bills get a lot or a little benefit out of that approach.  

 

For example, when Rex Ryan was the coach, I understood that Rex's philosophy was that he could win with a big-play defense.   I could understand that without making a judgment about whether that was the best approach or not.  Then they hired McDermott and defense switched to bend-don't-break.  Okay, that means that now I have understand and live with that approach.   I suppose if I thought about it I'd have an opinion about which is better, but that's just not my style.

 

Did 13-seconds prove that Rex was right and Sean is wrong?  No.  Actually, in what was, I think, Rex's last year with Jets, they lost a game when Rex rushed six with something like 20 seconds left in the game and the opponent beat single coverage for an 85-yard pass, catch and run for the game winning score.  The whole country thought Rex was an idiot.  

 

Defensive philosophy is just philosophy.   Once you have your philosophy, you still have to be prepared, and you have to execute.   The Bills weren't prepared for 13 seconds, and they didn't execute.   I think you could have put any middle linebacker on the field in place of Edmunds - Sam Huff, Brian Uhrlacher, Dick Butkus, Ray Lewis, Keuchle, anyone, and in the defenses the Bills ran, the Chiefs would have gotten the same result.   That loss was on the coaches, but not because of their defensive philosophy.   They and their team were unprepared to defend the whole field in that situation.   The worst example, of course, was that the Bills were defending the sideline to prevent completions and a quick clock stoppage, when the Chiefs had timeouts and didn't need to use the sideline.  That was a classic fail, and it had nothing to do with bend-don't-break.  

[Shaw66]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

PFF enters the chat with a strong “disagree”.

 

He’s not even in the top 15 of LB’s in their grading. Milano is #6 overall though.

As one indication of how useless PFF is, consider this:   The market spoke very clearly about what Milano was worth - $10 million a year.  

 

Everyone seems to agree that the market for Edmunds will be $15-$20 million a year.   

 

So, what exactly is the relevance of PFF ranking Milano higher than Edmunds?   It's merely an indication that coaches and GMs understand football and PFF doesn't.  

 

No one would trade Edmunds even up for Milano.  

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

As one indication of how useless PFF is, consider this:   The market spoke very clearly about what Milano was worth - $10 million a year.  

 

Everyone seems to agree that the market for Edmunds will be $15-$20 million a year.   

 

So, what exactly is the relevance of PFF ranking Milano higher than Edmunds?   It's merely an indication that coaches and GMs understand football and PFF doesn't.  

 

No one would trade Edmunds even up for Milano.  

 

Yet the majority of the teams in the league have a contract with PFF to use their data in their football operations. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Yet the majority of the teams in the league have a contract with PFF to use their data in their football operations. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I've been amazed at that, too, but I don't think they subscribe for the ratings.  They don't care about the ratings PFF comes up with.  They subscribe for access to searchable data, so they can use it for analytics that matter to them.  

[LABILLBACKER]

16 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

One thing I've learned over the years on fan forums is that posters have styles.   I don't pay a lot of attention to the styles of others, but I understand something about my own style.   My style is to watch what the Bills are doing and to try to understand what they're doing and why.  I don't spend much time worrying about whether management's philosophy is right or wrong because, well, I can't do anything about that.   I mean, I could see over time that Ralph Wilson wasn't particularly good at running football teams, but I couldn't fire him.   I just watch and try to understand what people are trying to.  In threads about Edmunds, I try to understand how the Bills are using him and whether the Bills get a lot or a little benefit out of that approach.  

 

For example, when Rex Ryan was the coach, I understood that Rex's philosophy was that he could win with a big-play defense.   I could understand that without making a judgment about whether that was the best approach or not.  Then they hired McDermott and defense switched to bend-don't-break.  Okay, that means that now I have understand and live with that approach.   I suppose if I thought about it I'd have an opinion about which is better, but that's just not my style.

 

Did 13-seconds prove that Rex was right and Sean is wrong?  No.  Actually, in what was, I think, Rex's last year with Jets, they lost a game when Rex rushed six with something like 20 seconds left in the game and the opponent beat single coverage for an 85-yard pass, catch and run for the game winning score.  The whole country thought Rex was an idiot.  

 

Defensive philosophy is just philosophy.   Once you have your philosophy, you still have to be prepared, and you have to execute.   The Bills weren't prepared for 13 seconds, and they didn't execute.   I think you could have put any middle linebacker on the field in place of Edmunds - Sam Huff, Brian Uhrlacher, Dick Butkus, Ray Lewis, Keuchle, anyone, and in the defenses the Bills ran, the Chiefs would have gotten the same result.   That loss was on the coaches, but not because of their defensive philosophy.   They and their team were unprepared to defend the whole field in that situation.   The worst example, of course, was that the Bills were defending the sideline to prevent completions and a quick clock stoppage, when the Chiefs had timeouts and didn't need to use the sideline.  That was a classic fail, and it had nothing to do with bend-don't-break.  

On your last paragraph I agree the coaches screwed up. No pooch kickoff was properly called. Would've taken seconds off the clock. Why focus so aggressively on the boundaries when KC had all 3 timeouts. I just think great coaches follow their philosophical strategies, but are also willing to occasionally throw a curveball when the opponent is looking fastball. Maybe rushing 5 would've sped up Mahomes's throw? No one on the planet including Andy Reid would expect McD/Frazier to call consecutive man to man coverage on Kelce using Tremaine? They're literally the same size & speed. You can still drop the remaining 5 dbs in zone. Philosophies can always be adjusted based on the circumstances. KC banked on the fact that McD would not deviate. And it worked.  This year we have a better pass rush with Von so maybe that curveball won't needed?

Edited November 6, 2022 by LABILLBACKER

[machine gun kelly]

On 11/5/2022 at 2:51 AM, Bronxbomber21 said:

I just didn't understand why Buffalo refused to go 3 LBs no matter how many yards the packers were getting on the ground they were staying in nickel 

Because we didn’t want to get burned in the air and have the Packers get back in the game.  We stuck in nickel as we made it very hard to pass on the D Backs.

[GunnerBill]

19 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

As one indication of how useless PFF is, consider this:   The market spoke very clearly about what Milano was worth - $10 million a year.  

 

Everyone seems to agree that the market for Edmunds will be $15-$20 million a year.   

 

So, what exactly is the relevance of PFF ranking Milano higher than Edmunds?   It's merely an indication that coaches and GMs understand football and PFF doesn't.  

 

No one would trade Edmunds even up for Milano.  

 

Couple of points on this:

 

1. The "predictions" on Milano were in the $12-13m range. We have no idea what his true market value was because he chose not to test the market and extended here. So I don't accept the market spoke "very clearly" about him. It gave us an indication.

 

2. Milano extended in the reduced cap covid year when deals generally came in a couple of mil below expectations.

 

3. There is also two years market inflation since then.

 

I don't make these points to criticise Edmunds. Not at all. I actually suspect if Edmunds hits the open market on the back of this career type year he is having he will be at the upper end of that $15-20m range. But if Milano hit the market this year he'd be in that bracket too. Probably slightly below Edmunds, because MLBs get paid more than SLBs and WLBs as a rule but they would not be miles apart. 

 

As for Milano being graded by PFF as the best coverage 'backer in the league so far this year... I mean I think that is pretty much borne out by the tape. He has been out-freaking-standing in coverage. Edmunds has been really good in coverage too and as I indicated earlier his PFF grade overall is dragged down by run defense.... but frankly in the moden NFL if you get knocked back 3 or 4 yards on a run play but still make the tackle who cares? The run game is an add on to the modern NFL offense. You saw a team last week run for 200 yards and lose by two scores. 

 

Milano makes more splash plays because of the role he has in this scheme. The expectation should never be for Tremaine to make as many as Matt but just to make his fair share which the past couple of years he has struggled with. Can't say that this year. 

 

On 11/5/2022 at 6:51 AM, Bronxbomber21 said:

I just didn't understand why Buffalo refused to go 3 LBs no matter how many yards the packers were getting on the ground they were staying in nickel 

 

Because we were not struggling to stop them cos of formation or personnel for the most part. The Bills had the guys there to make the tackles and stop a lot of those runs short. They just couldn't get the runner down. Aaron Jones went for 7.2 ypa. If you subtract the yards after contact it was  4.7. 

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by GunnerBill

[machine gun kelly]

On 10/31/2022 at 10:17 PM, Dablitzkrieg said:

He is doing what he is asked to be doing.  He's an athletic freak that moves extremely well for his size laterally as you said.  I hope you are ready for the flame throwers lol

Dabs, you nailed it right in the beginning of this thread.  McD wants to use Edmunds exactly like they are using him.  Edmunds has improved this year.  I don’t think he’s perfect, but many still think they need a Ray Lewis in the middle.  That’s not McD’s defense.

 

What I don’t know is if Beane can find the $ for his extension.  I can see them trying, but they may have a plan to get Bernard ready to step into Edmunds role.

 

The cap will escalate quite a bit over the next few years, but so will Allen and others contract extensions.

[LeGOATski]

10 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Dabs, you nailed it right in the beginning of this thread.  McD wants to use Edmunds exactly like they are using him.  Edmunds has improved this year.  I don’t think he’s perfect, but many still think they need a Ray Lewis in the middle.  That’s not McD’s defense.

 

What I don’t know is if Beane can find the $ for his extension.  I can see them trying, but they may have a plan to get Bernard ready to step into Edmunds role.

 

The cap will escalate quite a bit over the next few years, but so will Allen and others contract extensions.

Bernard doesn't seem built for Edmunds's role. He seems perfect for Milano's role.

 

Do we thinks MLB is a dime a dozen for McD? Like they're going to just keep drafting replacements? Seems like SLB is more in that category, but based on his history in Carolina, I think McD is fine with paying for 2 stars there. Those two LBs are super important.

[machine gun kelly]

6 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Bernard doesn't seem built for Edmunds's role. He seems perfect for Milano's role.

 

Do we thinks MLB is a dime a dozen for McD? Like they're going to just keep drafting replacements? Seems like SLB is more in that category, but based on his history in Carolina, I think McD is fine with paying for 2 stars there. Those two LBs are super important.

No argument he values Edmunds.  It’s more of can they afford him.  He’s going to draw a significant contract.

[hondo in seattle]

20 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Yet the majority of the teams in the league have a contract with PFF to use their data in their football operations. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

While I know this is true, I find it weird when we hear players saying the grades they get from their own coaches don't align with PFF.

[Rc2catch]

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

No argument he values Edmunds.  It’s more of can they afford him.  He’s going to draw a significant contract.

They can afford mostly any one player they want.  If New Orleans can be 100 million over and still squeak under and even sign players there’s always a way to free money up if you want a player bad enough. Just like New Orleans though to get the player you have to be willing to sacrifice others. They signed Tyrann Mathiue for 3 years 30+ million and then traded away the younger Gardner Johnson for pennies because they couldn’t extend him. Edmunds signing would probably mean no Oliver or possibly Hyde if he’s able to come back healthy. But that’ll be a whole other debate if/when the time comes. 

[Einstein]

Just saw Edmunds estimated contract value on Spotrac.

 

4 yrs, $57,114,436

Avg. Salary: $14,278,609

NFL Rank: 125

ILB Rank: 6

[FireChans]

Let the Edmunds love begin! 
 

He really carried the linebackers today with Milano out.

[MAJBobby]

As much as I have defended Edmunds over the years because of all the responsibilities put in him. 
 

It is time to move on after the season. 

[Brand J]

If we’re going to get gashed in the run game and fail to stop the higher end QBs in the league - or even the Zack Wilson types - then yeah, the guy who makes next to no impact plays can get paid by another team this offseason. Von Miller is great value at $20M/yr, he makes a lot of plays. Milano makes mistakes, but also makes game changing plays at $11M/yr. Paying Edmunds north of $10M/yr isn’t smart money. He just doesn’t make the plays he needs to and is almost never around the ball to do so. Always a step late, or chasing.