Hot take: Shakir should be the starting slot receiver going forward

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

Unfortunately I get the feeling that despite Shakir's impressive showing last week this coaching staff is going to go right back to McKenzie as the primary slot option.

 

I know that 'little dirty' is a fan favorite for some but for me he's also the WR equivalent of Zack Moss in that I feel this team is wasting valuable snaps in favor of better players that should be in the lineup.

 

Dude, if you troubled to go look up touches per game and yards per game, you would see that the comparison between Moss and McKenzie gets tackled for a loss

 

And I’m not gonna dignify Your Trollishness with more depth of response.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Zack Moss is one of the best RBs in pass pro in the league. That makes him especially valuable in a spread offense, and in many situations as a check down option. Lil' Dirty (get it right) is also an exceptional blocker, and is valuable not just in the slot, but for his athleticism on WR screens, gadget plays, and out of the backfield.

 

Lil’ Dirty can block, and he’s a willing blocker, but as I commented elsewhere other things being equal he just lacks the “m” in the F = ma thing.  He’s not the guy you want Allen to rely on to block in pass protection, though he’s “done the deed” and saved the play a few times when asked.

 

2 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Shakir is also clearly a versatile player, and will likely get plenty of snaps, whether he is named the starter, or not. I don't personally have a bead on Shakir's ability blocking, but I don't believe he has been too clearly tested in that regard. My inclination is to trust McD, Dorsey, and Allen (who is clearly given a lot of influence over play calls) over your frankly shallow take.

 

Shakir’s blocking to date has been mixed. Vs the Steelers he laid down a couple of sweet blocks.  He’s whiffed on some.  I think it would be pretty unusual for a rookie WR to come into the league and be a totally solid blocker.  He’s trying, he’s flashed, he’ll improve.

 

Don’t worry about his take, it’s not worth it.

[Beck Water]

46 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Just to be clear…

 

You’re saying Isaiah McKenzie… all 5’8” 165 lbs of him… is a great blocker?

 

And you are… unsure about Shakir’s blocking ability in the slot?

 

FWIW, I’ve been told that a lot of blocking is a mental/attitude thing.  Technique and timing can be taught, but the attitude and want-to have to be there.

 

Shakir is a work in progress blocking.  I’ve seen a couple beautiful blocks from him that were key to breaking a play, and I’ve seen him whiff and there went the play.

 

McKenzie is not the guy you’d count on for lead run blocking or to block in the backfield, but he can block when he needs to.  There are clips running around the interwebs where Josh motioned him over to pick up a blitzing linebacker and he absolutely neutralized him, textbook.  As you’d imagine, when it’s skill vs skill he can be overwhelmed.

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

Unfortunately I get the feeling that despite Shakir's impressive showing last week this coaching staff is going to go right back to McKenzie as the primary slot option.

 

I know that 'little dirty' is a fan favorite for some but for me he's also the WR equivalent of Zack Moss in that I feel this team is wasting valuable snaps in favor of better players that should be in the lineup.

Are we saying that McKenzie has not been a good player for us this year?

[NickelCity]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

Shakir is a work in progress blocking.  I’ve seen a couple beautiful blocks from him that were key to breaking a play, and I’ve seen him whiff and there went the play.

 

I'm curious - has Shakir whiffed other than the very first game he played in? (In which he looked totally lost most of the time?)

[Rocky Landing]

3 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Just to be clear…

 

You’re saying Isaiah McKenzie… all 5’8” 165 lbs of him… is a great blocker?

 

And you are… unsure about Shakir’s blocking ability in the slot?

 

My brother… I would be ok with this if you weren’t calling other people’s takes shallow, but you need to take a step back from the computer and turn it off for a little while.

Isaiah McKenzie is one of  the most versatile players on offense. Wide receivers are also expected to block downfield, and yes all 173 pounds of McKenzie is good at it. Not really the point of my post, though.

 

What strikes me as shallow is the lengths people are going to downplay the value that McKenzie has to this team because of an infatuation with Shakir, who did have three terrific receptions against an opponent that we nearly shut out 38-3;

 

"... the WR equivalent of Zack Moss..." Yes, that is shallow.

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Rocky Landing

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, Rocky Landing said:

Isaiah McKenzie is one of  the most versatile players on offense. Wide receivers are also expected to block downfield, and yes all 173 pounds of McKenzie is good at it. Not really the point of my post, though.

 

What strikes me as shallow is the lengths people are going to downplay the value that McKenzie has to this team because of an infatuation with Shakir, who did have three terrific receptions against an opponent that we nearly shut out 38-3;

 

"... the WR equivalent of Zack Moss..." Yes, that is shallow.

Isaiah McKenzie is one of  the most versatile players on offense. Wide receivers are also expected to block downfield, and yes all 173 pounds of McKenzie is good at it. Not really the point of my post, though.

 

What strikes me as shallow is the lengths people are going to downplay the value that McKenzie has to this team because of an infatuation with Shakir, who did have three terrific receptions against an opponent that we nearly shut out 38-3;

 

"... the WR equivalent of Zack Moss..." Yes, that is shallow.

rinse repeat? is this the matrix ?

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

rinse repeat? is this the matrix ?

Sometimes this site will double a post. I corrected it immediately after I posted it. I'm surprised how quickly you responded.

[PrimeTime101]

8 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Sometimes this site will double a post. I corrected it immediately after I posted it. I'm surprised how quickly you responded.

good timing i guess lol

[Wayne Arnold]

Agreed. It's time.

 

McKenzie is simply not good enough to be a starting slot receiver for a Super Bowl contender. He's been the offense's weak link all season.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:36 AM, Logic said:

I know, I know -- it's early, and you'll say I'm jumping the gun.

I don't care. I've seen enough: Khalil Shakir should be the starting slot receiver going forward, even when McKenzie and Crowder return to full health.

At the very least, he should be splitting reps with McKenzie and seeing more playing time than Jamison Crowder.

He runs great routes. He constantly seems to get open. He has relatively sure hands (one bad concentration drop yesterday not withstanding). He offers run-after-catch ability that this offense often lacks. He has the frame and build to withstand the tough over-the-middle work. 

Aside from all of that, he just passes the eyeball test in a way that the Bills' other two slot options do not. Frankly, he looks like a star in the making.

I love McKenzie as a player and am glad he's on the roster, but has he looked like a dynamic full time slot option to anyone over the first four games? He hasn't looked that way to me. I like Crowder, too. He's a solid, dependable veteran depth option. Again, though: he doesn't seem to pop off the screen the way Shakir was.

I have figured all along that Shakir would be brought along slowly, that he'd be more of a contender for starting duties in 2023 or 2024. Given McDermott's M.O., that still may happen. I don't think it should, though. I've seen enough. He's the best option to start in the slot. The coaches always preach getting the best players on the field, regardless of tenure or pedigree. If they're true to their word, Shakir should start seeing more opportunities. I hope he does.

I agree 100%, he will only get better with more playing time. He has already earned that spot and I’m picking him up this week in FFL

[Process]

Took them 6 weeks to make Moss inactive and feature Singletary. Hopefully it doesn't take them forever to make the move to Shakir. 

 

McKenzie is a better player than Moss and definitely still has a role in this offense. But Shakir needs to be the starter, 

[Mafioso]

7 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Agreed. It's time.

 

McKenzie is simply not good enough to be a starting slot receiver for a Super Bowl contender. He's been the offense's weak link all season.

Yep, it's time to move to Shakir.  I was high on McKenzie before the season started but bad things seem to happen when he is around the ball right now...and he compounds mistakes with poor decision making (Exhibit A - Not falling on the ball yesterday after the pitch miscue on our opening drive)

Edited October 17, 2022 by Mafioso

[Bruffalo]

Just now, Mafioso said:

Yep, it's time to move to Shakir.  I was high on McKenzie before the season started but bad things seem to happen when his is around the ball right now...and he compounds mistakes with poor decision making (Exhibit A - Not falling on the ball yesterday after miscue on the pitch yesterday).

 

He definitely had a really rough game yesterday, and it'd be nice to see the rookie's role expand in the offense.

 

I do think McKenzie is solid for some goal line plays, gadget plays, and match up specific stuff where he can burn you deep. He's awful at the contested catch though, and seems to be slower in processing/the scramble drill.  I was a big supporter of him before the season began but it's been peppered with big time mistakes. 

[SCBills]

I'm not going to kill McKenzie for the fumble yesterday... that was just a bad playcall, weird pitch timing and then he tried to make a play instead of falling on it.  Whatever.

 

What we can't have, is a slot receiver that trips over his own feet on a 4th and Goal TD pass resulting in a turnover on downs.. only to drop another pass when we are backed up at our 2 yard line and needing a play to get out of our own end zone. 

 

I think McKenzie is a decent slot wr who can give us some nice gadget/jet sweep looks, but hes just that ... decent ... Shakir in his limited exposure shows a much, much higher upside, and I think it's time to make the move coming out of the bye.   That doesn't mean McKenzie is benched.. I would just shake up the roles/snap allotment a bit to get Shakir out there more.  

 

[Mafioso]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I'm not going to kill McKenzie for the fumble yesterday... that was just a bad playcall, weird pitch timing and then he tried to make a play instead of falling on it.  Whatever.

 

What we can't have, is a slot receiver that trips over his own feet on a 4th and Goal TD pass resulting in a turnover on downs.. only to drop another pass when we are backed up at our 2 yard line and needing a play to get out of our own end zone. 

 

I think McKenzie is a decent slot wr who can give us some nice gadget/jet sweep looks, but hes just that ... decent ... Shakir in his limited exposure shows a much, much higher upside, and I think it's time to make the move coming out of the bye.   That doesn't mean McKenzie is benched.. I would just shake up the roles/snap allotment a bit to get Shakir out there more.  

 

Agreed that the fumble was a very poor play call and was not executed well.  However, he needs to be held accountable for not having the awareness to simply fall on the ball, which would have (at least) saved a FG or possibly given us a chance to regroup and get a TD on the drive.  Agree with all of your other points on McKenzie, very poor showing from him yesterday in particular.   I think McKenzie is still living off the one stellar game he had last year when Beasley was out with injury.  

 

Need to get Shakir a higher percentage of snaps moving forward...he has been impressive.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Mafioso

[Logic]

50 minutes ago, Process said:

Took them 6 weeks to make Moss inactive and feature Singletary. Hopefully it doesn't take them forever to make the move to Shakir. 

 

McKenzie is a better player than Moss and definitely still has a role in this offense. But Shakir needs to be the starter, 

McKenzie is the perfect WR4. I'd like to see him return to his role as jet sweep guy/gadget player a bit more.

Considering how awful our offense has been on 3rd and 1, I think a little jet sweep action -- even if its usually only a decoy -- could be helpful. And then, every now and again, you actually hand it off on the jet sweep for a 10+ yard gain to McKenzie. That's really the ONLY thing from the Daboll playbook that I miss under Dorsey.

[Forward Progress]

Shakir has produced consistently in his short time here and has definitely earned more reps.

 

If history repeats itself, Shakir will be stuck behind Mackenzie on the depth chart too long... just like Gabe Davis was stuck behind Emmanuel Sanders for too long last year.

[BananaB]

30 minutes ago, Forward Progress said:

Shakir has produced consistently in his short time here and has definitely earned more reps.

 

If history repeats itself, Shakir will be stuck behind Mackenzie on the depth chart too long... just like Gabe Davis was stuck behind Emmanuel Sanders for too long last year.

I was thinking the same

[Alphadawg7]

Called this in camp and preseason.  McKenzie is NOT a starter.  Period.  
 

Shakir will be the starter come playoff time, and probably will over take McKenzie in snaps sometime after the bye, if not the first game after the bye.  

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

McKenzie is the perfect WR4. I'd like to see him return to his role as jet sweep guy/gadget player a bit more.

Considering how awful our offense has been on 3rd and 1, I think a little jet sweep action -- even if its usually only a decoy -- could be helpful. And then, every now and again, you actually hand it off on the jet sweep for a 10+ yard gain to McKenzie. That's really the ONLY thing from the Daboll playbook that I miss under Dorsey.

If you want to let him continue to be kickoff return & gadget guy, that's fine. But I never want to see him get more touches than Shakir.  Isaiah has been given more than enough opportunities to prove he's not clumsy & unathletic. And frankly he's failed. Use his one strength ( speed ) on kick returns and sweeps. I'm not throwing slants or balls downfield to him. And Dorsey feel free to never run that pitch again.

[newcam2012]

I think McKenzie is serviceable. He lacks consistency. Yesterday was obviously a bad day. He can and will make some big plays and step it up. My take is the Bills are waiting for Shakir to develop a little more. Slowly give him experience. By playoff time, I wouldn't be surprised if he over takes McKenzie in snaps. The Bills are in a pretty good situation here. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by newcam2012

[Norcalbillsfan]

14 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I think McKenzie is serviceable. He lacks consistency. Yesterday was obviously a bad day. He can and will make some big plays and step it up. My take is the Bills are waiting for Shakir to develop a little more. Slowly give him experience. By playoff time, I wouldn't be surprised if he over takes McKenzie in snaps. The Bills are in a pretty good situation here. 

I'd like to see some more gadget plays for Mckenzie but I feel like we haven't seen him be a real every down wr more than once, last year against the patriots he ate them up. But the drops and the mistakes he's starting to show a pattern of are how you lose to good teams in the post season. His td drop could have easily been the reason we would have to go to kc in post season.

[newcam2012]

9 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

I'd like to see some more gadget plays for Mckenzie but I feel like we haven't seen him be a real every down wr more than once, last year against the patriots he ate them up. But the drops and the mistakes he's starting to show a pattern of are how you lose to good teams in the post season. His td drop could have easily been the reason we would have to go to kc in post season.

It was painfully obvious he had a poor game. If he continues to play poorly I'm confident coach McD will make the right moves. Shakir had looked pretty good in his limited role. 

[BringBackFergy]

On 10/18/2022 at 2:26 AM, Norcalbillsfan said:

I'd like to see some more gadget plays for Mckenzie but I feel like we haven't seen him be a real every down wr more than once, last year against the patriots he ate them up. But the drops and the mistakes he's starting to show a pattern of are how you lose to good teams in the post season. His td drop could have easily been the reason we would have to go to kc in post season.

Agree. McK still has a role on this team. But Shakir is making a case for himself. 

[Dick_Cheney]

Not too hot a take, I don't think lol. More like a "hmm we should've already been doing that" kind of take.

2 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Agree. McK still has a role on this team. But Shakir is making a case for himself. 

What role would you uh...say that is? Scapegoat?

[BringBackFergy]

7 minutes ago, Dick_Cheney said:

Not too hot a take, I don't think lol. More like a "hmm we should've already been doing that" kind of take.

What role would you uh...say that is? Scapegoat?

Experienced vet backup who can play slot or RB (in a Debo type role if needed). He is “Lamar” on scout team when we play Baltimore. Dude can fly. Speed can’t be taught.