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NFL Week #1 - Bills at the Rams - Post Game thread- The NFL season Begins!!!!!!


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7 hours ago, nkreed said:

They are really trying, but that production looked like a small step above public access TV. That's growing pains I know, but wow it's distracting!

 

Other than that, good for her if she cashed in. I just don't see too much draw for FanDuelTV. Maybe they will release numbers that prove me wrong.

 

 

I have that channel as part of my sports package through Hulu. Everyday it's 1 hour of Kay Adams, and 23 hours of horse racing. No exaggeration. The bottom ticker proudly displays all of that day's moneylines at all times. I'm guessing it will get regular play at OTBs and the like, not so much in people's homes.

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I think this is probably the right place for this take from a Rams supporter.

Point is that Stafford did appear to have options to throw to an open Allen Robinson, but wasn't taking them.

 

Of course, he isn't trying to figure out what's the first, second, third read, but it does appear that Robinson was open for some Rams 1st downs and Stafford didn't pull the trigger.

 

You have to wonder if lack of practice time with Robinson in pre-season is hindering them - if Stafford is just hesitant to make tight window throws to a guy he has limited experience with

 

Anyway, a bit of a watch-out that our CB zone coverage was perhaps not as tight as we might have thought from the lack of Robinson targets

 

 

Edited by Beck Water
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30 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I think this is probably the right place for this take from a Rams supporter.

Point is that Stafford did appear to have options to throw to an open Allen Robinson, but wasn't taking them.

 

Of course, he isn't trying to figure out what's the first, second, third read, but it does appear that Robinson was open for some Rams 1st downs and Stafford didn't pull the trigger.

 

You have to wonder if lack of practice time with Robinson in pre-season is hindering them - if Stafford is just hesitant to make tight window throws to a guy he has limited experience with

 

Anyway, a bit of a watch-out that our CB zone coverage was perhaps not as tight as we might have thought from the lack of Robinson targets

 

 

 

I'm 4 minutes in and this is pretty awful analysis IMO. Only one of the plays I watched did Robinson really appear to be as open as the guy claims and at that point Stafford was sprinting to his right. I respect Stafford's game but he isn't Allen or Mahomes or Rodgers. The Bills zone spacing was as good as I've ever seen it.

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1 hour ago, muppy said:

hollywood.jpg

After reviewing the game, I was struck by how the game was not as close as the final score indicated. The Rams got nearly half their total yards in the fourth quarter after the game was already lost. Been a while since we put it together on both sides of the ball like that. And with four turnovers to boot. 😂

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21 hours ago, The Wiz said:

It had to be an Edmunds thread at some point.  At least you took the time and did the research to back it up. 

 

Though you could have copied that video at the time stamp you are talking about instead of the full thing. 

I TRIED with the timestamp! Such things are difficult for an idiot like me, unfortunately. 

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16 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

First you should add the time stamp 4:12 or 4:13 the play starts.

 

At least part of this is correct - Poyer recognizes it at the last minute and alerts Edmunds just before the snap.  As he slides back - Edmunds slides to his left just as the ball is snapped - so for that you are incorrect.  He is following what Poyer saw - the recognition by Poyer came late and the crowd noise prevented communication from his deep spot.

 

Then Edmunds was not a step too late really - the Edmunds thread has both still shots and the video showing him starting to breaking down right in his lane when the OLine from the Rams shoves him from the right and behind causing him to move a step beyond and into Johnson.

 

The still and videos also show Johnson getting held and blocked from behind preventing him from making the play originally.

 

There are lots of things you can blame on Edmunds, but I don’t think this play is one.  He reacts immediately at 4:15 before the snap and he get to his spot to force him inside.  The play was there for Milano to stuff it and drive him back.  The support was there for the tackle, but Oliver recognized he could not drive him forward and with incredible agility passed the scrum set his feet and tried to drive him back just as the OLine reached it and collapsed the pile forward causing Ed to twist his ankle.

 

I could understand the anger if Edmunds had missed the tackle, but he didn’t - he got to his lane and prevented Kupp from going there and forced him inside to the free tackler in Milano.  It was well played and only successful because an OLine came up and was able to shove them forward.

 

The real question is if Poyer recognized the play and gave explicit instructions to Edmunds - why did it take him so long to get to the spot himself.  If he was expecting screen and saw screen - he should have been rushing to the spot, but he actual enters the screen shot at 4:19/4:20 as Milano is making the tackle and does not head to the scrum but is jumping like we made the stop. If he keeps going in and hits the scrum they maybe get the stop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did intend to timestamp the video. Alas, I failed.

 

I appreciate being taken to task in an objective way as you're doing here. Honestly, though, Edmunds does NOT, to my eye, sell-out on Poyer's pre-snap read the way he could/should have. His eyes were still a bit elsewhere momentarily. Obviously his keys were telling him something a bit different. I was yelling about it as it unfolded in real time.

 

Of course it's not ALL his fault by any means. But he was maybe the only guy who could have disrupted the play, and it seems obvious Poyer realized that right before the snap.

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7 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

I did intend to timestamp the video. Alas, I failed.

 

I appreciate being taken to task in an objective way as you're doing here. Honestly, though, Edmunds does NOT, to my eye, sell-out on Poyer's pre-snap read the way he could/should have. His eyes were still a bit elsewhere momentarily. Obviously his keys were telling him something a bit different. I was yelling about it as it unfolded in real time.

 

Of course it's not ALL his fault by any means. But he was maybe the only guy who could have disrupted the play, and it seems obvious Poyer realized that right before the snap.


 

I agree he does not completely sell out - but he also has a job to do and if he had sold out and it had been a run up the middle where he should have been people would have blasted him for that.

 

I mean really as I stated if Poyer recognized it and after notifying Edmunds - he also could have been in a better spot to assist, but he had a deep area to cover as a primary responsibility.  
 

The players can not give up their primary responsibility 100% just because they recognize a potential play or you see what happen to Jalen Ramsey on The Diggs TD.  He was looking at Josh recognized an underneath route and Josh rushing to his side and slowed enough to put himself in no man’s land.

 

Looking at that play either Ramsey or the Safety did not do their primary job of keeping deep contain on Diggs.  The safety was moving to cover the shorter out route and Ramsey slowed down and tried to evenly space to make a play on both allowing the TD over the top.

 

Poyer couldn’t slide down and add an extra body at the line because if they happened to run a fake with a deep route - he could get burned.  Edmunds could not sell out to that spot because if they had run a straight dive - they would have been outnumbered and potentially given up a big run right down the middle.

 

Edmunds had to play his primary making sure it was not a handoff/QB sneak type play.  Follow his reads and then get to his spot to make the play.  I am sure alarm bells were blaring as his reads lead to the same thing - quick screen, but he did his 1/11th got to his spot and forced the receiver inside to a funnelling Milano to make the tackle.  It was played perfectly minus a new trend where the OL can drive a pile forward and in this case the Rams did that.  Sometimes the defense does it’s job and the other team gets a break - Ala the Diggs back shoulder throw with Ramsey in perfect coverage that was just a thing of beauty.

 

 

Edited by Rochesterfan
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7 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

I did intend to timestamp the video. Alas, I failed.

 

I appreciate being taken to task in an objective way as you're doing here. Honestly, though, Edmunds does NOT, to my eye, sell-out on Poyer's pre-snap read the way he could/should have. His eyes were still a bit elsewhere momentarily. Obviously his keys were telling him something a bit different. I was yelling about it as it unfolded in real time.

 

Of course it's not ALL his fault by any means. But he was maybe the only guy who could have disrupted the play, and it seems obvious Poyer realized that right before the snap.


 

Also - I appreciate you posting the video - there is nothing against you in any of this - I totally get it.  
 

The issue I have was more stemming from some posters in the now gone Edmunds thread that stated a true MLB like Ray Lewis makes that play - why can’t Edmunds and second a true MLB does not allow himself to get blocked by the OL - Edmunds sucks.

 

I hate having to be an Edmunds apologist because as I have stated several times - he is clearly a mid level starting MLB in the NFL and that is ok - he has potential to be better, but he could be worse.

 

To that point - many posters wanted to replace him with Bobby Wagner, but refuse to acknowledge that Wagner was not good in that game as a MLB.  There were several runs that he was slow and got blocked by OL, TE, or even Gilliam as a FB.  He also got driven into the end zone by Josh on a play that the Rams paid him to make - read and make that 1:1 tackle at the goal line.

 

I just think some posters have unrealistic expectations of Edmunds - they want Ray Lewis hits and tackles and that is not ‘Maine - he gives you steady I will be in my place - 1/11th doing my job every time.  That means sometimes things will look bad because he will work to ensure the opponent has to turn back inside to the pursuit, it means sometimes he will fill a gap that is his responsibility and the running back will cut and take a different gap and people blame his instincts.

 

Edmunds just does his job and that is very frustrating as a fan when you see some LBs go way above and beyond and make a highlight play, but the fans miss the other plays where those instincts caused him to misread the play.

 

 

Edited by Rochesterfan
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16 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

Also - I appreciate you posting the video - there is nothing against you in any of this - I totally get it.  
 

The issue I have was more stemming from some posters in the now gone Edmunds thread that stated a true MLB like Ray Lewis makes that play - why can’t Edmunds and second a true MLB does not allow himself to get blocked by the OL - Edmunds sucks.

 

I hate having to be an Edmunds apologist because as I have stated several times - he is clearly a mid level starting MLB in the NFL and that is ok - he has potential to be better, but he could be worse.

 

To that point - many posters wanted to replace him with Bobby Wagner, but refuse to acknowledge that Wagner was not good in that game as a MLB.  There were several runs that he was slow and got blocked by OL, TE, or even Gilliam as a FB.  He also got driven into the end zone by Josh on a play that the Rams paid him to make - read and make that 1:1 tackle at the goal line.

 

I just think some posters have unrealistic expectations of Edmunds - they want Ray Lewis hits and tackles and that is not ‘Maine - he gives you steady I will be in my place - 1/11th doing my job every time.  That means sometimes things will look bad because he will work to ensure the opponent has to turn back inside to the pursuit, it means sometimes he will fill a gap that is his responsibility and the running back will cut and take a different gap and people blame his instincts.

 

Edmunds just does his job and that is very frustrating as a fan when you see some LBs go way above and beyond and make a highlight play, but the fans miss the other plays where those instincts caused him to misread the play.

 

 

 

Maybe "just do[ing] his job" is the issue we often have with our MLB. You'd love for him to trust Poyer's decisive adjustment and cheat left to where the defense is going to be outflanked otherwise. As fans we do NOT know what was communicated there, but upon further review of the play, Edmunds DID shift to his left a bit as Poyer directed. 

 

I do not enjoy crusading against players on the Bills. I want them all to succeed. On this play, however, the MLB fails. It happens even to better players.

 

The real issue looks to be post-snap: Edmunds initially takes 2 or 3 steps BACKWARDS, and then, he simply overruns the play (the edge was another player's responsibility to contain). If he isn't going to undercut the blocking and disrupt the play before it gets started (which he can't do if his fist steps are backwards), he then absolutely must STONE one of the lead blockers to give his teammates more time to rally. Taron Johnson effectively outflanks/attacks the edge, so what Edmunds does is redundant and useless. Milano actually almost makes the stop from even FURTHER to the backside of the play; would have helped to have a 250lb freak LB hold his ground with Havenstein right where Milano makes contact. Only needed ONE more player to help him stop the ball carrier's upfield progress. 

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2 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Maybe "just do[ing] his job" is the issue we often have with our MLB. You'd love for him to trust Poyer's decisive adjustment and cheat left to where the defense is going to be outflanked otherwise. As fans we do NOT know what was communicated there, but upon further review of the play, Edmunds DID shift to his left a bit as Poyer directed. 

 

I do not enjoy crusading against players on the Bills. I want them all to succeed. On this play, however, the MLB fails. It happens even to better players.

 

The real issue looks to be post-snap: Edmunds initially takes 2 or 3 steps BACKWARDS, and then, he simply overruns the play (the edge was another player's responsibility to contain). If he isn't going to undercut the blocking and disrupt the play before it gets started (which he can't do if his fist steps are backwards), he then absolutely must STONE one of the lead blockers to give his teammates more time to rally. Taron Johnson effectively outflanks/attacks the edge, so what Edmunds does is redundant and useless. Milano actually almost makes the stop from even FURTHER to the backside of the play; would have helped to have a 250lb freak LB hold his ground with Havenstein right where Milano makes contact. Only needed ONE more player to help him stop the ball carrier's upfield progress. 


 

I hear you, but he does do exactly what he should.  Look at 4:16 - He, Taron Johnson, and Milano are all exactly at the same depth reading their keys.  As soon as the OL let’s the pass rush through and Stafford turns to his right - Edmunds breaks to the spot.  He is the first to react.

 

At 4:17 - you see Johnson move forward and does his job outside contain - turn the play back toward pursuit.  Edmunds breaks down 3-4 Feet to the right of Johnson in his lane and attacks under the 2 blockers.  He has 2 Jobs - 1 to make the play if Kupp hits that hole and 2 fill that hole to force Kupp further inside to pursuit.

 

Edmunds fulfills that duty with his movement and Kupp is forced horizontally further inside to the next pursuing LB Milano.  Milano is the unblocked defender that has to make the play.  It is exactly how you want that play to be covered. 
 

Most likely an Elite MLB might have not broken down just shot in an made the play, but as has been stated - that is not Edmunds.  The issue is that he does exactly what he should within the scheme.  
 

Compare what Edmunds did on this play with Wagner multiple times on outside zone runs - Wagner multiple times got picked up and stoned out of position by OL and a FB.  Wagner not only did not make the play, but never got to the spot he needed to with the defensive scheme allowing positive plays.

 

The part I have a real issue with is the bolded.  Of course his first couple of steps is backwards - the same as Taron and Milano.  The defense call for them to be spaced evenly across the field.  He has a primary responsibility to that middle third and must fulfill that first.  The Rams could have also run a shallow cross with Kupp and if Edmunds immediately abandoned his spot - he could open up a whole different issue.  
 

Also what exact information do you think Poyer conveys to Edmunds in that brief part of a second.  He is saying - watch the screen to your left most likely.  Edmunds again does his job and reacts first toward the spot at 4:17.  Again I will ask you - If Poyer knew the play was coming - where was he.  You say that Edmunds should trust Poyer and cheat left, but then shouldn’t Poyer have trusted himself and stayed closer to the LOS and been available to help make the tackle?  
 

Poyer did not do anything on the play - in fact at 4:19 you see Poyer enter the frame running forward just as Milano is making the tackle - Instead of driving forward to the pile to assist with the tackle - he starts to celebrate as the OL come forward to assist in getting the first down.  He is standing 2 yards down field at 4:20 as the OL arrive and push him forward.  If Poyer had attacked the pile most likely they drive him back and blow the whistle, but he did not.

 

So in conclusion- to me - Edmunds on that play reacted based upon what Poyer saw as he was the first defender to move toward Kupp as soon as the keys said that was the play.  He got to his spot and forced the WR further inside to the unblocked defender who was in position to make the tackle short of the1st down sticks.  You are looking for him to immediately abandon his responsibilities on the play and head left beforehand because of what Poyer suggested and then make the tackle.

 

I to would of loved to see Edmunds not break down and just missile fly up and kill the WR, but if you watch Edmunds - those are many times that he hits but slides off the tackles.  He needs to break down and be under control to make solid tackles - when he is running full speed the offensive player can slide enough and cause him to miss his attack point and then miss the tackle.  It is who he is.  Many LBs might have made that play, but after watching several other MLBs in the league - he played it better than many.  As I said in that game alone the OL picked up and easily handled Wagner in situations like that as he was 2-3 steps slower all night and that was a player many on here wanted to replace Edmunds with.  

 

 

Edited by Rochesterfan
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17 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

I hear you, but he does do exactly what he should.  Look at 4:16 - He, Taron Johnson, and Milano are all exactly at the same depth reading their keys.  As soon as the OL let’s the pass rush through and Stafford turns to his right - Edmunds breaks to the spot.  He is the first to react.

 

At 4:17 - you see Johnson move forward and does his job outside contain - turn the play back toward pursuit.  Edmunds breaks down 3-4 Feet to the right of Johnson in his lane and attacks under the 2 blockers.  He has 2 Jobs - 1 to make the play if Kupp hits that hole and 2 fill that hole to force Kupp further inside to pursuit.

 

Edmunds fulfills that duty with his movement and Kupp is forced horizontally further inside to the next pursuing LB Milano.  Milano is the unblocked defender that has to make the play.  It is exactly how you want that play to be covered. 
 

Most likely an Elite MLB might have not broken down just shot in an made the play, but as has been stated - that is not Edmunds.  The issue is that he does exactly what he should within the scheme.  
 

Compare what Edmunds did on this play with Wagner multiple times on outside zone runs - Wagner multiple times got picked up and stoned out of position by OL and a FB.  Wagner not only did not make the play, but never got to the spot he needed to with the defensive scheme allowing positive plays.

 

The part I have a real issue with is the bolded.  Of course his first couple of steps is backwards - the same as Taron and Milano.  The defense call for them to be spaced evenly across the field.  He has a primary responsibility to that middle third and must fulfill that first.  The Rams could have also run a shallow cross with Kupp and if Edmunds immediately abandoned his spot - he could open up a whole different issue.  
 

Also what exact information do you think Poyer conveys to Edmunds in that brief part of a second.  He is saying - watch the screen to your left most likely.  Edmunds again does his job and reacts first toward the spot at 4:17.  Again I will ask you - If Poyer knew the play was coming - where was he.  You say that Edmunds should trust Poyer and cheat left, but then shouldn’t Poyer have trusted himself and stayed closer to the LOS and been available to help make the tackle?  
 

Poyer did not do anything on the play - in fact at 4:19 you see Poyer enter the frame running forward just as Milano is making the tackle - Instead of driving forward to the pile to assist with the tackle - he starts to celebrate as the OL come forward to assist in getting the first down.  He is standing 2 yards down field at 4:20 as the OL arrive and push him forward.  If Poyer had attacked the pile most likely they drive him back and blow the whistle, but he did not.

 

So in conclusion- to me - Edmunds on that play reacted based upon what Poyer saw as he was the first defender to move toward Kupp as soon as the keys said that was the play.  He got to his spot and forced the WR further inside to the unblocked defender who was in position to make the tackle short of the1st down sticks.  You are looking for him to immediately abandon his responsibilities on the play and head left beforehand because of what Poyer suggested and then make the tackle.

 

I to would of loved to see Edmunds not break down and just missile fly up and kill the WR, but if you watch Edmunds - those are many times that he hits but slides off the tackles.  He needs to break down and be under control to make solid tackles - when he is running full speed the offensive player can slide enough and cause him to miss his attack point and then miss the tackle.  It is who he is.  Many LBs might have made that play, but after watching several other MLBs in the league - he played it better than many.  As I said in that game alone the OL picked up and easily handled Wagner in situations like that as he was 2-3 steps slower all night and that was a player many on here wanted to replace Edmunds with.  

 

 

You keep coming back with strong counter arguments utilizing detailed evidence. Nice work. 

 

I STILL want Tremaine to get low and take on the widest pulling lineman, creating a little scrum there which could have helped Milano as he engaged the ball carrier. 

 

(Have this image i can't shake of Mike Vrabel, of all hated players, on a wode goalline rush, essentially planting a knee on the playside edge of the line and stoning a pulling lineman's progress, thereby jamming up traffic and allowing his teammates to rally to the ball. I know that's not Edmunds's game, but with his size I wish it was when the occasion calls for it.)

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8 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

You keep coming back with strong counter arguments utilizing detailed evidence. Nice work. 

 

I STILL want Tremaine to get low and take on the widest pulling lineman, creating a little scrum there which could have helped Milano as he engaged the ball carrier. 

 

(Have this image i can't shake of Mike Vrabel, of all hated players, on a wode goalline rush, essentially planting a knee on the playside edge of the line and stoning a pulling lineman's progress, thereby jamming up traffic and allowing his teammates to rally to the ball. I know that's not Edmunds's game, but with his size I wish it was when the occasion calls for it.)


 

 

I know and it is one of the hugely frustrating parts of his game.  
 

The 2nd part of that is if the lineman had beat him there - Edmunds based on his history would not attack the lineman to drive him back - he would square up and give ground to slow the WR in this case (or RB usually) down and maintain his lane to allow pursuit to make the play.

 

I know he looks like a physical freak, but I really think people need to think of him like a smaller DB out their.  That is how he plays the position.  He does not attack blockers like a typical MLB - he plays space and lanes exactly how a smaller DB plays the game.  He plays football in this defense not to make a huge hit and destroy or blow things up - he plays leverage and prevent the big play.  
 

It can be frustrating to watch at times, but I imagine they are getting taught everyday - keep the play in front of you and do your 1/11th.  Make them drive the field and covert 3rd downs because we feel teams will get overly aggressive and miss a shot or we can get a stop.  Do not let them get that chunk play and that my friends is exactly how Edmunds plays.  
 

I do not know if that is all him or he really takes to the coaching speak, but he epitomizes exactly what the staff preaches and it is why fans get frustrated with the staff and why they get frustrated with Edmunds as a player.  It is also why the staff love him and speak highly of him.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 


 

Notice LA is not even listed with their own home opening and banner raising.  
 

I know the number of potential viewers in LA is huge, but moving back to LA for 1 - let alone 2 teams was dumb.  
 

Both teams are Super Bowl contenders and both played at home and both had to use a silent count in their own stadium on offense because of the fan noise.  
 

Embarrassing! 😳

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1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

Notice LA is not even listed with their own home opening and banner raising.  
 

I know the number of potential viewers in LA is huge, but moving back to LA for 1 - let alone 2 teams was dumb.  
 

Both teams are Super Bowl contenders and both played at home and both had to use a silent count in their own stadium on offense because of the fan noise.  
 

Embarrassing! 😳

All of the Rams fans were at the game so no one was home to watch the game. 🤣

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7 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

Notice LA is not even listed with their own home opening and banner raising.  
 

I know the number of potential viewers in LA is huge, but moving back to LA for 1 - let alone 2 teams was dumb.  
 

Both teams are Super Bowl contenders and both played at home and both had to use a silent count in their own stadium on offense because of the fan noise.  
 

Embarrassing! 😳


The Los Angeles market has 5.7 million households to Buffalo’s 600,000.  It’s possible there were more people watching in LA than in Buffalo even though the ratings and shares were much lower.


I think the remarkable number is that 75% of households with televisions in Buffalo were watching. Wonder what a Bills Super Bowl would rate?  90%?

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