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Jim Kelly on the all time passing list


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2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

I would take Allen over Kelly in his prime

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2 hours ago, Neo said:

Add another 10,000 had he not played a decade with two touchdown leads and Thurman Thomas.   Kelly was a quarterback.   Marino was a passer.

 

Marino was leaps and bounds better than Kelly as a passer and a QB.

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2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The flip side is that those elite weapons elevated him some. They did a ton after the catch. He was great and belongs in the HOF. If you include the guys not yet in though, I’m not sure if he is top 25 all-time. 

 

Yeah, I'm not as concerned with all-time rankings...stats can be helped/hurt by so many factors over a career.  We agree he is a totally legit HOFer.

 

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I love Jim Kelly as much as the next guy, but he was not a great passer.  He did happen to have command of an innovative offense, and was often a better passer than the guys on the opposite sideline.

 

But re-watching old games, his mechanics and decision-making were frequently awful, and as he lost mobility and arm strength during the second half of his career, it was clear that we were often winning games in spite of Jim Kelly, and not because of anything he was doing as a QB.

 

Yes, many will argue correctly that it was a different era, blah blah blah.  But Jim Kelly would struggle to be a competent starting QB in today's NFL.  The guys are that much more talented, accurate, etc.  I will always give Jim Kelly high marks for his leadership and toughness, but it's night and day vs what Josh Allen brings in today's NFL

 

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Back in that era it probably would have been more like 9,000 yards than 11,000 teams still ran the ball quite a bit.

I also tend to agree that Kelly is severely overrated by Bills fans. Good QB on a great team.

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you figure 48 regular season games x 200 yards per game is 9600.  So I think 10,000 is a somewhat reasonable estimate.  Although, that’s not accounting for time missed due to injury

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41 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Back in that era it probably would have been more like 9,000 yards than 11,000 teams still ran the ball quite a bit.

I also tend to agree that Kelly is severely overrated by Bills fans. Good QB on a great team.

 

Coming off back to back 2-14 seasons Kelly was viewed as a savior for the franchise during those horrible times. Just look at the reaction of the fans during Kelly's first game.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Coming off back to back 2-14 seasons Kelly was viewed as a savior for the franchise during those horrible times. Just look at the reaction of the fans during Kelly's first game.

 

i am amazed by the crappy resolution

 

 

 

Edited by Robert Paulson
p.s. love the uni numbers with no borders-very clean
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3 hours ago, Greg S said:

Expect many of the greats to continue to drop in the standings (stats wise) now that we have a 17 game season which eventually will turn into an 18 game season. Assuming he stays healthy Allen will have every single Bills passing record and it won't be close. It will knock Kelly from #1 to #2 as the greatest Bills QB with Kemp and Ferguson dropping to #3 and #4 respectively on the Bills QB list.

    All JA needs is one Lombardi and he’s the number one for this franchise.

    I would go so far as to say if we won it all this year and Allen retired he’d still be # 1

 

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Just now, Buffalo Boy said:

    All JA needs is one Lombardi and he’s the number one for this franchise.

    I would go so far as to say if we won it all this year and Allen retired he’d still be # 1

 

 

If they manage to win the Super Bowl this entire Bills team will be considered legends in WNY not just Allen. If they win I am driving up from NJ just to be at the celebration/parade. It will be epic. I think every Bills fan all around the world will make every effort to be at that.

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4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

This is only a hot take on TBD. It is reality in the rest of the world.

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4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

I tend to agree with the assessment, though I’m not as quick to put Marino in thr upper tier category. He was boy wonder coming out of the gates when Kelly was still in the USFL. He had inflated numbers in a pass-happy offense and was the media darling breaking records. But, he only made it to a single Super Bowl early on, then was consistently beaten by Kelly, who played in a balanced offense with 1000 yd runners (unlike Marino). Marino gained an early reputation as one of the best. 

Kelly called his own plays and was far more successful in big games. Kelly was also a better ‘team player’. I can’t rate Marino higher just because he had a super fast release, great accuracy, and threw the ball enough to rack up big passing numbers. 

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2 hours ago, Awwufelloff said:

Allens career will blow past Kellys in every category. 

As it should. Different eras, although I believe Allen would make his mark regardless of era, that’s how much of a unicorn he is, imho. That said, Kelly nationally is under-appreciated compared with his peers, solely bc of the SB losses. Kelly’s 10 years were nothing short of special, and as a new fan outside of Buffalo during his era, he’s directly still responsible for turning me into a Bills lifer—I highly doubt I’m the only one. 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Coming off back to back 2-14 seasons Kelly was viewed as a savior for the franchise during those horrible times. Just look at the reaction of the fans during Kelly's first game.

I was at that game.  Went with friends.  Went to the bathroom before kickoff and said I would meet them at the seats.  Turns out, they had all of the ticket stubs and they were not seats that we usually sat in.  I had absolutely no idea where they were sitting, so I ended up watching the game standing up in various spots around the stadium and met them in the parking lot after the game.  I can't honestly even attribute it to overserving myself at the tailgate (although I can for various other mishaps at Bills games over the years), it was just a stupid mistake.  It was pretty amazing what Kelly was able to do that day with very little practice time and very little knowledge of the playbook.  It was apparent he was going to be a great one.

 

I agree with many of the comments above that Kelly is HOF-worthy, but not necessary one of the all-time elites.  I realize it is all semantics, but Kelly was a much better FOOTBALL PLAYER than Dan Marino, but Marino may have been a better QUARTERBACK.  It was said above that Marino was a better PASSER, but Kelly a better QUARTERBACK.  It all depends on the words you want to use, but there were definitely things that Marino did better than Kelly in the passing game, but Kelly was the better leader and had much better results.  Some of that may be attributable to the teams around each guy and some of it is related to the "it" factor/intangibles that Kelly had - leadership, toughness, high football IQ.  Perhaps this era's Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert will be the new version of the Kelly, Marino, Elway era.

 

 

 

 

Edited by msw2112
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5 hours ago, Neo said:

Add another 10,000 had he not played a decade with two touchdown leads and Thurman Thomas.   Kelly was a quarterback.   Marino was a passer.

 

Not sure what that means exactly, but it sounds clever.  Marino was the more highly ranked of the 2 by anyone who is not a Bills fan.

 

4 hours ago, Neo said:

I agree with Kirby, but I’d drop Marino from his list.   Marino is not Brady, Montana, Payton, Elway …

No, he's a lot better in some aspects.


He's the best pure passer I've ever seen and no one has ever replicated his ridiculously fast release.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

 

Not sure what that means exactly, but it sounds clever.  Marino was the more highly ranked of the 2 by anyone who is not a Bills fan.

 

No, he's a lot better in some aspects.


He's the best pure passer I've ever seen and no one has ever replicated his ridiculously fast release.

 

 

Anti-clutch in the playoffs, he folded like a cheap suit.

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5 hours ago, Neo said:

I agree with Kirby, but I’d drop Marino from his list.   Marino is not Brady, Montana, Payton, Elway …

 

Marino might be the best passer to ever play the game. At this point it's between him and Rodgers. Josh Allen could blow them both away at his current trajectory.

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