Dion Dawkins one of only 5 NFL players with pass blocking grade over 75 each of the last 5 seasons according to PFF

[Big Turk]

He is in some pretty elite company there...easy to see why Beane extended him.

 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/06/01/buffalo-bills-dion-dawkins-pro-football-focus/

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

And he is a really awesome person too. Does so much for the community. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I thought he played his best football after coming back from his second bout of COVID.  He was amazing the last quarter of the season and in the playoffs.

[Brand J]

Outside of the beginning of this season when he was coming back from Covid, his play at LT has been great. And there are still some here who want to move him inside to guard 🙄

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Outside of the beginning of this season when he was coming back from Covid, his play at LT has been great. And there are still some here who want to move him inside to guard 🙄

 

Nobody wants to move Dion inside to guard because of a Dion issue. It was in the spirit of early draft discussions where maybe one of the top tackles fell to #24. The point was on a team where the biggest weakness last year was the offensive line you can't pass up an elite tackle prospect because you have Dion and Spencer Brown. You take the tackle and then work out who plays where afterwards. And Dion has been a really good left tackle. He has outperformed my expectations for him as a tackle tbh. I thought he'd be solid but not a top 10 guy and he has been a top 10 guy. But I still maintain he'd have been an elite NFL guard. I am talking like Zack Martin, perennial all-pro level good. So if you had taken a tackle Dion going inside was an option. 

 

The point was quickly moot because in a weak top half of the first round the tackles all got pushed up. 

[H2o]

He had a rough stretch last year, but he's definitely been the the best and most consistent player on our OL since entering the league. Hoping a full, healthy offseason and the addition of Saffold makes his play look even better. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, H2o said:

He had a rough stretch last year, but he's definitely been the the best and most consistent player on our OL since entering the league. Hoping a full, healthy offseason and the addition of Saffold makes his play look even better. 

 

Yea he had a disappointing 2nd year and struggled badly the first half of last season (for which there may have been genuine extenuating circumstances) but he is one of the best players on the Bills when he is at his peak and he is definitely the most important cog on the oline. 

 

As for Saffold making him better.... I think he will help in the run game. He might even hinder in pass pro though. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

He’s been very consistent. Last year seemed to be a turning point for him. After the poor Covid start he actually raised his game to a new level. He was a top ten LT down the stretch last year. I’m interested to see if he can continue that play.

[DJB]

So we like PFF again or? 

[Matt_In_NH]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He’s been very consistent. Last year seemed to be a turning point for him. After the poor Covid start he actually raised his game to a new level. He was a top ten LT down the stretch last year. I’m interested to see if he can continue that play.

  

He was terrible for a while at the beginning of last year and I agree he turned it around.   I was surprised he made the Pro Bowl but I also do not sit there and grade every lineman on every play and since this was his first pro bowl election (meaning, not a repeat name that happens with the PB often), I tend to believe he earned it.   the QB sneak at the end of the Tenn game is hard to forget though...when the tackle gets his azz blown into the QB...never remember seeing that before.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, DJB said:

So we like PFF again or? 

PFF is good data, it’s just not perfect. Their data is all subjective. 2 people can look at the same play and have a different opinion.

 

I try to compare their data with what I see and typically it’s pretty close. Sometimes it’s been way off. 
 

 

5 minutes ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

  

He was terrible for a while at the beginning of last year and I agree he turned it around.   I was surprised he made the Pro Bowl but I also do not sit there and grade every lineman on every play and since this was his first pro bowl election (meaning, not a repeat name that happens with the PB often), I tend to believe he earned it.   the QB sneak at the end of the Tenn game is hard to forget though...when the tackle gets his azz blown into the QB...never remember seeing that before.

That QB sneak play Dawkins had no chance. Honestly that is on Allen. You have a top 5 DT sitting right in the hole you want to sneak and your OT has to reach him? No chance.  Allen has to see that and sneak right. But he pretty much always sneaks in the same spot.

[machine gun kelly]

He was overcoming COVID for awhile, and he didn’t just have it, he was hospitalized and had to receive oxygen, so pretty bad.  Once he was in a rhythm, he made it back to form.  We are fortunate to have him as our franchise LT.  I read from GB Saffold, but I also see Saffold along with Morse and Dawkins as veterans as really helping the development of Spencer Brown.  He mailed people last year, but this year, he hopefully refines his RT skills.  He should take a step this year.  Bates may also improve from Saffold’s mentorship.

[Matt_In_NH]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Honestly that is on Allen.

I disagree, Dawkins butt made tackled Allen...Simmons kicked his butt on that play.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by 13 Second Prevent Defense

[Buffalo_Stampede]

10 minutes ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

I disagree, Dawkins butt made tackled Allen...Simmons kicked his butt on that play.

 

 

Allen has a tendency to sneak over the LG. The Titans obviously knew that. Bills OL was out numbered based on alignment. If Allen sneaks right he might score.

 

Let me also add Feliciano gets rolled by our new NT DaQuan Jones. I never saw that before. 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

PFF is good data, it’s just not perfect. Their data is all subjective. 2 people can look at the same play and have a different opinion.

 

I try to compare their data with what I see and typically it’s pretty close. Sometimes it’s been way off. 
 

 

This is exactly how I see their grades too. They are usually pretty close to the eye test but they are not perfect and there are some flaws in their system. 

[H2o]

20 minutes ago, DJB said:

So we like PFF again or? 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, H2o said:

Give me an example of something you disagree with?

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

He had a rough stretch last year, but he's definitely been the the best and most consistent player on our OL since entering the league. Hoping a full, healthy offseason and the addition of Saffold makes his play look even better. 

 

Yeah, coming back from COVID which really hit him hard he took a while to round back into shape. He lost a lot of weight and said he didn't even know if he was going to make it.

[H2o]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Give me an example of something you disagree with?

My disdain for PFF has been known on this board for years. They manufacture metrics based off of their own skewed views about players. They downgrade or upgrade because of their own personal opinions. They will also beat that dead horse into the ground to push that skewed view until it becomes an impossible narrative to maintain any longer. The real kicker for me personally though? I watched a video they put together after the draft in 2018 (pretty sure it was 2018, but could have been 2019) where they were doing a breakdown of many of the teams' draft picks. The two clowns in the video had the audacity to claim "you can tell which teams FO's were going by our PFF Draft Guide by their selections" because it was supposed to be some kind of draft bible in the hands of every NFL GM. They're idiots.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I stopped at PFF

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

My disdain for PFF has been known on this board for years. They manufacture metrics based off of their own skewed views about players. They downgrade or upgrade because of their own personal opinions. They will also beat that dead horse into the ground to push that skewed view until it becomes an impossible narrative to maintain any longer. The real kicker for me personally though? I watched a video they put together after the draft in 2018 (pretty sure it was 2018, but could have been 2019) where they were doing a breakdown of many of the teams' draft picks. The two clowns in the video had the audacity to claim "you can tell which teams FO's were going by our PFF Draft Guide by their selections" because it was supposed to be some kind of draft bible in the hands of every NFL GM. They're idiots.  

The Buffalo Bills use PFF for draft information.

 

Any player evaluation will be done using personal opinions. Their grading system may be flawed, I believe it’s a universal grading system that all their people use but it’s still going to be subjective. 

 

Evaluating players isn’t a perfect science. Their grades have been pretty close to my personal opinions of players I’ve took time to evaluate.

 

 I think complete grading is impossible without knowing the players responsibility. So there will be inaccuracies with anyone doing grading without knowing exactly what the play is asking the player to do.

 

 

[FilthyBeast]

10 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I thought he played his best football after coming back from his second bout of COVID.  He was amazing the last quarter of the season and in the playoffs.

 

He was definitely playing at an all pro level last year when it mattered most and it's not talked about enough especially how bad he was in the first half of the season coming back from his covid struggles.

[H2o]

25 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The Buffalo Bills use PFF for draft information.

 

Any player evaluation will be done using personal opinions. Their grading system may be flawed, I believe it’s a universal grading system that all their people use but it’s still going to be subjective. 

 

Evaluating players isn’t a perfect science. Their grades have been pretty close to my personal opinions of players I’ve took time to evaluate.

 

 I think complete grading is impossible without knowing the players responsibility. So there will be inaccuracies with anyone doing grading without knowing exactly what the play is asking the player to do.

 

 

Beane trusts himself, McDermott, his talent evaluators, and their draft board they put together. He's not going by the "PFF Draft Guide" to make his selections. I highly doubt that ANY team is doing so. Like I said, they're idiots.  

[K-9]

The play Dawkins makes on the play at the 13:20 mark in the video is all I need to know about his mindset as a player. Puts Judon on his ass in pass pro then runs 20 yards downfield after Diggs makes the catch and blows up a defender trying to make a tackle. You can’t teach that. 
 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

34 minutes ago, H2o said:

Beane trusts himself, McDermott, his talent evaluators, and their draft board they put together. He's not going by the "PFF Draft Guide" to make his selections. I highly doubt that ANY team is doing so. Like I said, they're idiots.  

They literally were using PFF in the draft video posted on the Bills website. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[RoyBatty is alive]

5 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Allen has a tendency to sneak over the LG. The Titans obviously knew that. Bills OL was out numbered based on alignment. If Allen sneaks right he might score.

 

Let me also add Feliciano gets rolled by our new NT DaQuan Jones. I never saw that before. 

 

 

That tells me Dabol is not the OC guru many people have touted him as.

[njbuff]

It shouldn't have come down to that 4th down play. Allen got the first down the previous play.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The Buffalo Bills use PFF for draft information.

 

Any player evaluation will be done using personal opinions. Their grading system may be flawed, I believe it’s a universal grading system that all their people use but it’s still going to be subjective. 

 

Evaluating players isn’t a perfect science. Their grades have been pretty close to my personal opinions of players I’ve took time to evaluate.

 

 I think complete grading is impossible without knowing the players responsibility. So there will be inaccuracies with anyone doing grading without knowing exactly what the play is asking the player to do.

 

 

 

Taylor Lewan claims that some players pay $50K for more favorable grades...have not seen anything put out to refute that or other players that have said anything about it.

 

Also did not realize that PFF is majority owned by Cris Collinsworth...

 

Interesting 5.5 min video which includes the blurb about PFF towards the middle-end...Lewan talks about differences between some defensive players and why he would choose Myles Garrett as the best defensive player in the NFL over Donald or Watt from a fundamental standpoint. Does say that Donald is probably the best defensive player overall tho.  

 

Said that Watt makes so many plays because like his brother did, he slashes inside on runs to tackle the player in the backfield but never gets called out when they go for 60 yard TDs because he is out of position, whereas Garrett almost always plays fundamentally sound defense.

 

 https://atozsports.com/nashville/taylor-lewan-makes-statement-that-completely-discredits-pro-football-focus/#:~:text=Lewan appeared in a video,their position grades look better.&text=“[PFF] is a complete,says Lewan in the video.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Big Turk

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Also did not realize that PFF is majority owned by Cris Collinsworth...

 

All the more reason to ignore it

 

[Big Turk]

12 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

All the more reason to ignore it

 

 

Have you been standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona?  I heard it's such a fine sight to see...maybe you'll have a girl, my Lord, in a flat bed Ford slowing down to take a look at you  🤣

Edited June 2, 2022 by Big Turk

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Taylor Lewan claims that some players pay $50K for more favorable grades...have not seen anything put out to refute that or other players that have said anything about it.

 

Also did not realize that PFF is majority owned by Cris Collinsworth...

 

Interesting 5.5 min video which includes the blurb about PFF towards the middle-end...Lewan talks about differences between some defensive players and why he would choose Myles Garrett as the best defensive player in the NFL over Donald or Watt from a fundamental standpoint. Does say that Donald is probably the best defensive player overall tho.  

 

Said that Watt makes so many plays because like his brother did, he slashes inside on runs to tackle the player in the backfield but never gets called out when they go for 60 yard TDs because he is out of position, whereas Garrett almost always plays fundamentally sound defense.

 

 https://atozsports.com/nashville/taylor-lewan-makes-statement-that-completely-discredits-pro-football-focus/#:~:text=Lewan appeared in a video,their position grades look better.&text=“[PFF] is a complete,says Lewan in the video.

If it were true that players pay an amount that large for a favorable grade then wouldn’t that suggest NFL GMs use PFF?

[unbillievable]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

If it were true that players pay an amount that large for a favorable grade then wouldn’t that suggest NFL GMs use PFF?

players probably slip EA money for their madden ratings too

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, unbillievable said:

players probably slip EA money for their madden ratings too

What benefit does that do for them?

 

Fans don’t want to believe it but NFL teams do actually pay PFF for their data.

[John from Riverside]

My naked eye says Dawkins is the best offensive linemen on our team

[Big Turk]

25 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What benefit does that do for them?

 

Fans don’t want to believe it but NFL teams do actually pay PFF for their data.

 

They do, more so for another reference point and probably to see if they have a much higher opinion than the team does, did the team overlook something in their evaluations where they should go back and rewatch it again and involve more people?  Doesn't hurt to have it available for cross-checking purposes and to maybe come up with a list of 20-30 players they differ on quite a bit and to look more in depth.

[Buffalo716]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nobody wants to move Dion inside to guard because of a Dion issue. It was in the spirit of early draft discussions where maybe one of the top tackles fell to #24. The point was on a team where the biggest weakness last year was the offensive line you can't pass up an elite tackle prospect because you have Dion and Spencer Brown. You take the tackle and then work out who plays where afterwards. And Dion has been a really good left tackle. He has outperformed my expectations for him as a tackle tbh. I thought he'd be solid but not a top 10 guy and he has been a top 10 guy. But I still maintain he'd have been an elite NFL guard. I am talking like Zack Martin, perennial all-pro level good. So if you had taken a tackle Dion going inside was an option. 

 

The point was quickly moot because in a weak top half of the first round the tackles all got pushed up. 

While a lot of things are certainly possible in the NFL I really don't expect that

 

Martin was literally a top five player on my board.. fighting for the number one spot in his draft... Elite elite ... Massive mauler

 

Dawkins I always had Pegged as a a tackle who could play guard.. but much better on the outside where he could bully defensive ends

 

On the inside against zero one and three techs, I think his run blocking gets negated a bit .. I don't think he's as pure as a mauler as Martin.. and guards All pro because of their run blocking

 

He clears out defensive ends with his size and agility and a great motor with his length 

 

Too good of a pass blocker to kick inside

 

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Buffalo716

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

17 hours ago, Big Turk said:

He is in some pretty elite company there...easy to see why Beane extended him.

 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/06/01/buffalo-bills-dion-dawkins-pro-football-focus/

Dawkins and Milano are the 2 most underrated players on this team.

[Doc]

You don't need PFF to know Dawkins played very well towards the end of last season, after lingering effects from COVID finally abated.  I look forward to see him picking up where he left off at the end of last season and getting to work with Kromer, as well has having Saffold next to him.  And I will be interested to see what Bates does at RG, under Kromer's tutelage.  I'm hoping at LG to RG switch does for him what it did for Teller (but I won't hold my breath).

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

While a lot of things are certainly possible in the NFL I really don't expect that

 

Martin was literally a top five player on my board.. fighting for the number one spot in his draft... Elite elite ... Massive mauler

 

Dawkins I always had Pegged as a a tackle who could play guard.. but much better on the outside where he could bully defensive ends

 

On the inside against zero one and three techs, I think his run blocking gets negated a bit .. I don't think he's as pure as a mauler as Martin.. and guards All pro because of their run blocking

 

He clears out defensive ends with his size and agility and a great motor with his length 

 

Too good of a pass blocker to kick inside

 

 

 

 

 

See I disagree with you. I had Dawkins as a guard who could play tackle. I am not saying I had him graded as high as Martin, but I remain totally convinced Dawkins would have been a perennial all pro at guard. And while you say he isn't a mauler, the few series he had at guard as a rookie when Cody was at tackle and Cog went out of the game he was moving big bodies on the inside and McCoy was skipping away like a toddler at camp. 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See I disagree with you. I had Dawkins as a guard who could play tackle. I am not saying I had him graded as high as Martin, but I remain totally convinced Dawkins would have been a perennial all pro at guard. And while you say he isn't a mauler, the few series he had at guard as a rookie when Cody was at tackle and Cog went out of the game he was moving big bodies on the inside and McCoy was skipping away like a toddler at camp. 

There's a lot of players in the NFL who have played at a good level for a few snaps

 

I'm not saying Dawkins would be a bad guard.. but I don't think he has the profile of a perennial All-Pro.. perennial pro bowler would be closer

 

Again you're talking two or three guards in the world.. I don't think he has the profile of a Nelson or Zack Martin.. who have extremely high IQ, technique and grit ... 

 

I think he's slightly lesser in those three.. where he does make up for it is in his great athleticism and length 

 

Which is why I think he's a tackle first who could be moved to guard... coaches don't take a pro bowl potential at left tackle and move him to guard unless he can't play 

 

Maybe when he loses explosiveness one day he will be moved to guard and I'm sure he would be great