Mass shooting in Uvalde Texas...

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I actually think time in the military is not a bad thing for young men. Certainly not for everyone; however, it can provide guidance and structure, and help instill/strengthen good traits.

 

I am, and have been for a long time, a HUGE supporter of mandatory military service for 12 months.  Everyone has to do it when they turn 18...no exceptions.  

 

It would be unbelievably productive for almost everyone involved, from a wide variety of angles.

 

 

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, K-9 said:

If only these mass shooters tried forcing sugar down the throats of their victims instead. They’d have stood a better chance.

 

Drunk drivers kill more people than mass shooters every year. It isn't even close. That doesn't mean I want to ban alcohol. I'm not trying to make a one to one comparison, I'm just saying one of the trade offs of living in a free society is that some people are too stupid or evil to handle freedom and will ultimately ruin it for others. Freedom is still better than not. I have no doubt if police officers could stop and search anyone they damn well please we would have less homicide in this country. That doesn't mean I want to give up my rights to walk about freely without being stopped.

 

I'm not a gun nut, I have shot a gun exactly 3 times in my life at a gun range and have never cared to own one. If AR-15s were banned tomorrow I honestly wouldn't care. I get it, there are already restrictions on buying too much fertilizer or explosives. If federal law wants to lump AR-15s in with that category I would understand. But I think people will be disappointed when mass shooters just use a different firearm and still rack up big body counts. My goal in this discussion is not to minimize body counts. It's to prevent the shootings from happening in the first place as much as humanly possible.

[T&C]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I am, and have been for a long time, a HUGE supporter of mandatory military service for 12 months.  Everyone has to do it when they turn 18...no exceptions.  

 

It would be unbelievably productive for almost everyone involved, from a wide variety of angles.

 

 

It is impossible to have no exceptions. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I don’t quite understand still how the shooter got into the school. In our schools, all the doors are locked during the day. I think most schools started doing this 5+ years ago. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I am, and have been for a long time, a HUGE supporter of mandatory military service for 12 months.  Everyone has to do it when they turn 18...no exceptions.  

 

It would be unbelievably productive for almost everyone involved, from a wide variety of angles.

 

 

Read the article on war and and 18 year old male mind.

 

I be pro that if they made the age 26.  Same with alcohol.  26 is when the brain stops developing. 

 

Heck... Just make everything 26.  😆 

 

Yeah... The war machine would really want that! 😆 

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I am, and have been for a long time, a HUGE supporter of mandatory military service for 12 months.  Everyone has to do it when they turn 18...no exceptions.  

 

It would be unbelievably productive for almost everyone involved, from a wide variety of angles.

That would pry violate the 13th amendment.  You'd also have to make exceptions for people with chronic illnesses, physical and mental disabilities, etc...  Plus, forcing a law abiding citizen into military service seems anti American in multiple ways.

[HappyDays]

 

This is crazy. They just left him in the classroom for an hour. My God what if some of the children were laying there injured the whole time? I'm sick to my stomach all over again.

[LeviF]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is crazy. They just left him in the classroom for an hour. My God what if some of the children were laying there injured the whole time? I'm sick to my stomach all over again.

 

Lots of stuff missing here. Leaving aside the fact that very few people know much about breaching an outward opening steel door with a steel frame, there are several questions that need to be answered. Had he barricaded the door at all? Did he have hostages? Was he actively killing those hostages? Why did it take so long to get a key? Where was the SRO?

 

Excuse me if I hesitate to trust the "sources" talking about what occurred in that active scene at this point in the timeline. Need to have some more information before I'm willing to throw someone under the bus a la a certain Broward County SRO.

[HappyDays]

57 minutes ago, LeviF said:

 

Lots of stuff missing here. Leaving aside the fact that very few people know much about breaching an outward opening steel door with a steel frame, there are several questions that need to be answered. Had he barricaded the door at all? Did he have hostages? Was he actively killing those hostages? Why did it take so long to get a key? Where was the SRO?

 

Excuse me if I hesitate to trust the "sources" talking about what occurred in that active scene at this point in the timeline. Need to have some more information before I'm willing to throw someone under the bus a la a certain Broward County SRO.

 

It would be nice if local officials gave us answers to these questions but so far a lot of the information we've gotten from them is contradictory. Apparently that school district recently spent a ton of money on upping the school security too. The whole system failed.

[GoBills808]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Drunk drivers kill more people than mass shooters every year. It isn't even close. That doesn't mean I want to ban alcohol. I'm not trying to make a one to one comparison, I'm just saying one of the trade offs of living in a free society is that some people are too stupid or evil to handle freedom and will ultimately ruin it for others. Freedom is still better than not. I have no doubt if police officers could stop and search anyone they damn well please we would have less homicide in this country. That doesn't mean I want to give up my rights to walk about freely without being stopped.

 

I'm not a gun nut, I have shot a gun exactly 3 times in my life at a gun range and have never cared to own one. If AR-15s were banned tomorrow I honestly wouldn't care. I get it, there are already restrictions on buying too much fertilizer or explosives. If federal law wants to lump AR-15s in with that category I would understand. But I think people will be disappointed when mass shooters just use a different firearm and still rack up big body counts. My goal in this discussion is not to minimize body counts. It's to prevent the shootings from happening in the first place as much as humanly possible.

I think it's pretty sad that your threshold for a 'free society' is the ability to own firearms with no purpose other than killing humans. But I guess you can take solance in the fact that you are far from alone in that regard.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Was he an ex-student there at one time?  I know it's an elementary school, so that would have been a decade ago. Security practices have been in place for decades now... Maybe he knew the lay of the land,  procedures so to speak. 

 

 

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think it's pretty sad that your threshold for a 'free society' is the ability to own firearms with no purpose other than killing humans. But I guess you can take solance in the fact that you are far from alone in that regard.

 

I think it should be a lot harder to acquire them. I don't think it should be impossible. If we started treating gun licenses like driver's licenses I would be on board with that. Anyone who thinks they need a gun right now this very second kind of terrifies me.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think it should be a lot harder to acquire them. I don't think it should be impossible. If we started treating gun licenses like driver's licenses I would be on board with that. Anyone who thinks they need a gun right now this very second kind of terrifies me.

Why not? Automatic weapons are illegal to acquire for all intents and purposes.

[LeviF]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Why not? Automatic weapons are illegal to acquire for all intents and purposes.

 

Well, no. Just like a litany of other things in America, the real barrier to legally obtaining an automatic weapon is money.

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Why not? Automatic weapons are illegal to acquire for all intents and purposes.

 

A person can even acquire explosives if they have the right licensing. I'm all for making AR-15s harder to get, there's a reason almost every mass shooter uses them. But people legitimately own them for leisure or collection purposes. I won't take that option away from them.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, LeviF said:

 

Well, no. Just like a litany of other things in America, the real barrier to legally obtaining an automatic weapon is money.

My reply would be in the form of a question, and that question would be would you say that FOPA was effective in dramatically limiting the public's access to automatic firearms?

[HappyDays]

 

These parents deserve answers, and possibly consequences if the response was botched as badly as it appears.

[LeviF]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

My reply would be in the form of a question, and that question would be would you say that FOPA was effective in dramatically limiting the public's access to automatic firearms?

 

In that it made automatic firearms only available to people with a certain amount of capital, yes.

 

Considering your other political positions it seems interesting to me that your solution is to make another class of firearms only available to rich people.

[Gugny]

36 minutes ago, LeviF said:

 

In that it made automatic firearms only available to people with a certain amount of capital, yes.

 

Considering your other political positions it seems interesting to me that your solution is to make another class of firearms only available to rich people.

 

Well we all know that noise suppressors are only available to elite white people.

[LeviF]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Well we all know that noise suppressors are only available to elite white people.

 

I appreciate the firearms education work that QB Jake Fromm put in for his community service graduation requirements at Georgia.

[Gugny]

The husband of a teacher killed in this horrific attack has died of a heart attack.  They were married for 24 years and had four children.

 

https://www.tmz.com/2022/05/26/uvalde-elementary-school-shooting-teacher-husband-dead-heart-attack-dies/

 

Irma Garcia was one of two teachers killed in Tuesday's mass shooting, and now her family has announced her husband of 24 years, Joe Garcia, is dead too.

 

Local reporter, Ernie Zuniga, says Garcia suffered a fatal heart attack ... and that the two had 4 children together. A GoFundMe has been set up to help the family.

 

😢

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

Microstamping, insurance requirements, additional licensing fees, etc. will do nothing to solve crime or keep guns out of the hands of criminals

 

This line of thinking has never made sense to me. Any restriction on acquiring assault weapons will make it harder for potential mass murderers to acquire them. I highly doubt the 18 year old could have just found an AR-15 on the street. He was however able to walk into a store the day after his 18th birthday and walk out with a murder weapon, with zero hassle. I think that's insane.

 

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

The husband of a teacher killed in this horrific attack has died of a heart attack.  They were married for 24 years and had four children.

 

https://www.tmz.com/2022/05/26/uvalde-elementary-school-shooting-teacher-husband-dead-heart-attack-dies/

 

Irma Garcia was one of two teachers killed in Tuesday's mass shooting, and now her family has announced her husband of 24 years, Joe Garcia, is dead too.

 

Local reporter, Ernie Zuniga, says Garcia suffered a fatal heart attack ... and that the two had 4 children together. A GoFundMe has been set up to help the family.

 

😢

 

Here's the Go Fund Me for the family:

 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/ygcdaa-for-garcia-family?utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link_all&utm_source=customer

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by HappyDays

[aristocrat]

Now they're reporting the school did not have a resource officer and nobody engaged him before he entered an unlocked door at the school. Cops were on scene in about 4 minutes

[K-9]

I find it beyond ironic that Abbott is gonna speak at the NRA convention in Houston and NO GUNS ARE ALLOWED. You’d think the governor, so proud of his no license, open carry law, including semi-automatic assault rifles, would insist on celebrating his gun laws by asking everyone to openly carry their weapons at the convention. 

[Greg S]

(11) David Begnaud on Twitter: "The family of Irma Garcia, a teacher who was murdered during the massacre in Uvalde, Texas, have reportedly confirmed that Irma’s husband Joe has died of a heart attack. Joe & Irma were married 24 years. They are survived by four children. https://t.co/eXZcekOUuY" / Twitter

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

This line of thinking has never made sense to me. Any restriction on acquiring assault weapons will make it harder for potential mass murderers to acquire them. I highly doubt the 18 year old could have just found an AR-15 on the street. He was however able to walk into a store the day after his 18th birthday and walk out with a murder weapon, with zero hassle. I think that's insane.

That moment when you realize trying to straddle the fence on this issue doesn’t work

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That moment when you realize trying to straddle the fence on this issue doesn’t work

 

Being moderate is tough. Everybody hates you. But I believe there is a middle ground to this issue.

[Special K]

21 hours ago, Bad Things said:

I have no hope and zero faith that anything will get done to help solve this issue.

Why would anyone think otherwise?

 

It's not just one broken system that needs to be fixed, it's many, including the general culture in America.   

Things are going backwards,  instead of forward, and no one seems to want to work together.

 

 

Like Winston Churchill once said:

 

“America always does the right thing......after it exhausts all other possible options.”

 

Unfortunately, we are still in the exhausting all other options phase.

[716er]

 

[GoBills808]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Being moderate is tough. Everybody hates you. But I believe there is a middle ground to this issue.

It’s not hate, it’s a lack of respect for pretending to straddle some undefined middle ground when anyone who hasn’t been living under a rock for the last 20 years knows it doesn’t exist.

 

The gun rights guys I can at least understand. They have some skin in the game. So it makes sense to me logically that they oppose any further regulation on philosophical ground even as the bodies keep piling up. Folks like you, though…no idea.

[Just Jack]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think it should be a lot harder to acquire them. I don't think it should be impossible. If we started treating gun licenses like driver's licenses I would be on board with that. Anyone who thinks they need a gun right now this very second kind of terrifies me.

 

Really? It's pretty easy to get a drivers license than a pistol permit, or purchase a gun, here in NY. 

[K-9]

43 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Being moderate is tough. Everybody hates you. But I believe there is a middle ground to this issue.

Of course there is a middle ground. But when one side of the argument is against giving up even an inch of ground, the middle cannot be reached. 

13 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

Really? It's pretty easy to get a drivers license than a pistol permit, or purchase a gun, here in NY. 

And in places like Texas, the exact opposite is the case. That’s why federal statutes need to be part of any common sense legislation.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I’m kind of disappointed the NFL teams response wasn’t as the same as Buffalo’s response. Would’ve been nice to see Cowboys, Texans, and the other pro teams out there, in person, supporting their community. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

It’s not hate, it’s a lack of respect for pretending to straddle some undefined middle ground when anyone who hasn’t been living under a rock for the last 20 years knows it doesn’t exist.

 

Everything has a middle ground. We can protect people's freedoms without putting the public in danger. Our free society has always been a balancing act between the two. I love being able to go out and get drinks with friends and family, even though I know alcohol kills tens of thousands of people per year. I like walking around freely without being stopped even though there are crimes that could be avoided if the police randomly searched anyone they wanted to. Some people collect assault rifles. It's not my thing but we can let them have their hobby and still keep the public safe. Nothing is black and white even though that's where these discussions always end up.

 

59 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Of course there is a middle ground. But when one side of the argument is against giving up even an inch of ground, the middle cannot be reached. 

 

I think the large majority of people would agree on a middle ground. The issue isn't the people, it's the politicians taking million dollar donations from the NRA to reject any type of restriction whatsoever.

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by HappyDays

[GoBills808]

18 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Everything has a middle ground. We can protect people's freedoms without putting the public in danger. Our free society has always been a balancing act between the two. I love being able to go out and get drinks with friends and family, even though I know alcohol kills tens of thousands of people per year. I like walking around freely without being stopped even though there are crimes that could be avoided if the police randomly searched anyone they wanted to. Some people collect assault rifles. It's not my thing but we can let them have their hobby and still keep the public safe. Nothing is black and white even though that's where these discussions always end up.

 

 

I think the large majority of people would agree on a middle ground. The issue isn't the people, it's the politicians taking million dollar donations from the NRA to reject any type of restriction whatsoever.

 

No. You really can’t. The results are in.

[HappyDays]

17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

No. You really can’t. The results are in.

 

You don't think there's any middle ground between a total ban and an 18 year old being able to immediately purchase an assault rifle without hassle? That's ridiculous on the face of it.

[K-9]

52 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think the large majority of people would agree on a middle ground. The issue isn't the people, it's the politicians taking million dollar donations from the NRA to reject any type of restriction whatsoever.

 

The protestations of various posters in these parts aside, decades of polling absolutely bears that out. It’s the politicians and the lobbying interests they are owned by that will not cede an inch of ground. 

[billsfan1959]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Being moderate is tough. Everybody hates you. But I believe there is a middle ground to this issue.

Unfortunately, the extreme views on both sides tend to somehow dominate…

[GoBills808]

33 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You don't think there's any middle ground between a total ban and an 18 year old being able to immediately purchase an assault rifle without hassle? That's ridiculous on the face of it.

Fine. I’d be willing to allow ex military and ex law enforcement access to semi automatics. That’s my concession. 
 

Now find me one single person from the other side willing to budge even one inch.

[muppy]

4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Unfortunately, the extreme views on both sides tend to somehow dominate…

100%. In chatrooms I think it is because (except extreme circumstances like we have today)  only the most ardent folks will make their political opinions known. Three taboo topics in general conversation....your salary, religion and politics/ 2nd amendment views.  Indeed. 

 

Due to recent events we ALL are invested now. Something has got to give. imo.