Deshaun Watson admits under oath that Ashley Solis cried at the end of the massage

[FilthyBeast]

I still can't fathom a reality where any team would make this team of trade and give this kind of guaranteed money out.  Even if he was a true superstar (which he's not) why put your franchises entire future in this basket?

 

What's going to be even more funny is if this guy ever takes the field again he's probably not going to look anything like the QB he was in Houston and/or suffer a serious season or career ending injury right out of the gate after not playing for so long.

 

Shame on Cleveland for truly being desperate for relevance.

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

I still can't fathom a reality where any team would make this team of trade and give this kind of guaranteed money out.  Even if he was a true superstar (which he's not) why put your franchises entire future in this basket?

 

What's going to be even more funny is if this guy ever takes the field again he's probably not going to look anything like the QB he was in Houston and/or suffer a serious season or career ending injury right out of the gate after not playing for so long.

 

Shame on Cleveland for truly being desperate for relevance.

This is the same owner who drafted Johnny manzeil because a homeless man told him to, regardless of the fact the research from his FO AND an independent consultant he hired on top of that had Derek carr as the QB pick.

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

This is the same owner who drafted Johnny manzeil because a homeless man told him to, regardless of the fact the research from his FO AND an independent consultant he hired on top of that had Derek carr as the QB pick.

 

Hmm I am sure they had Teddy Bridgewater as the guy. I am 99% certain that was the case and it was widely reported around the time. They still ignored it to pick Manziel but their research project landed on Teddy not Derek Carr.

[nedboy7]

"I just exposed my self.  This is a FREE country!!" 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

I still can't fathom a reality where any team would make this team of trade and give this kind of guaranteed money out.  Even if he was a true superstar (which he's not) why put your franchises entire future in this basket?

There’s not many times a 25 year old proven elite qb becomes available.  Let’s not forget there was a bidding war between four teams for this guy once the criminal charges were dismissed.  The Browns did what they felt they had to in order to get him to Cleveland.  Now they’ll live with the consequences.

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

There’s not many times a 25 year old proven elite qb becomes available.  Let’s not forget there was a bidding war between four teams for this guy once the criminal charges were dismissed.  The Browns did what they felt they had to in order to get him to Cleveland.  Now they’ll live with the consequences.

There was a bidding war initially but only one team willing to give out a fully  guaranteed contract to him. That’s the point. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Who the hell told him it would be a good idea to field questions?  What a moron.

That would be my initial gut reaction BUT  if you can trust/coach up Watson to stick to his talking points, (never disrespected any woman blah blah blah) which he mostly did, I think it was a good strategy.  Lately it has been a PR disaster for Watson.    The non-stop Deshaun Watson bashing has been relentless, they had to try and change the narrative or direction  a bit to and now they can say Watson isnt afraid to take questions.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

That would be my initial gut reaction BUT  if you can trust/coach up Watson to stick to his talking points, (never disrespected any woman blah blah blah) which he mostly did, I think it was a good strategy.  Lately it has been a PR disaster for Watson.    The non-stop Deshaun Watson bashing has been relentless, they had to try and change the narrative or direction  a bit to and now they can say Watson isnt afraid to take questions.

 

I agree to an extent, but I don't think his talking points were that great.

 

I realize that he can't come out and apologize for his actions, for obvious reasons. 

 

"I do understand that I do have regrets as far as the impact that [it's had] on the community and people outside of just myself," Watson said. "And that includes my family. That includes this organization. That includes my teammates in this locker room that have to answer to these questions. That includes the fan base of the Cleveland Browns. That includes males, females, everyone across the, the world. That's one thing I do regret is the impact that it's triggered on so many people. It's tough to have to deal with."

 

All he's saying is that he "regrets the impact," on those tied closely to him - and on himself.  I interpret what he said as a backhanded way to call the accusers liars and to paint himself as a victim at the same time.

 

I still think he should just keep his mouth shut.

 

But as I said upstream in the thread ... I think the guy is who and what these women are saying he is and I'd be fine seeing his career come to an abrupt end.

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

I still can't fathom a reality where any team would make this team of trade and give this kind of guaranteed money out.  Even if he was a true superstar (which he's not) why put your franchises entire future in this basket?

 

What's going to be even more funny is if this guy ever takes the field again he's probably not going to look anything like the QB he was in Houston and/or suffer a serious season or career ending injury right out of the gate after not playing for so long.

 

Shame on Cleveland for truly being desperate for relevance.

Deshaun Watson was in fact a true superstar. evidence number 1 as a Bills fan was the Texans playoff  comeback, it was almost all D Watson, he took  the team on his back and had a few borderline miraculous plays like the one where two bills  were on him and could bring him down for a sack and turned it into a big gainer.  Looks at his numbers two years ago, the man was a real superstar.

[BillsShredder83]

On 6/10/2022 at 7:02 AM, Paul Costa said:

What needs to be looked into is the collusion between Watson’s attorney and the Houston DA? Seems as though they worked together nicely to make this go away

Any time a grand jury is involved, it's red flag #1

[BillsShredder83]

On 6/13/2022 at 1:33 PM, Captain Hindsight said:

I'm curious what the "out" is. My understanding was the contract was pretty much fully guaranteed.

 

I also have to wonder what Haslam would consider unacceptable number of cases. 50? 60? 70? They've already given up a lot and were willing to take on the PR nightmare at 23 cases. 24 is suddenly too many? I don't buy that

For being an Emmy winning reporter im not very impressed with this response -

 

“The @Brownshave built a strong out into the contract. If Watson did in fact get massages from 66 different women in 17 months, lawsuit number 24 may be just the beginning. If more criminal complaints are filed, Browns may decide it is just not worth it…”

 

- ok??? If you have that information don't you think it'd be pertinent to the story lol she either has nothing orrrr just didn't feel like sharing? Weird

[FilthyBeast]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Deshaun Watson was in fact a true superstar. evidence number 1 as a Bills fan was the Texans playoff  comeback, it was almost all D Watson, he took  the team on his back and had a few borderline miraculous plays like the one where two bills  were on him and could bring him down for a sack and turned it into a big gainer.  Looks at his numbers two years ago, the man was a real superstar.

 

I still disagree, he's a good player but nowhere close to elite and the highlight of his career is winning a PO game against us that you can argue was also lost because of poor coaching.

 

But aside from the fact, you still don't make this type of move regardless of his ability unless you are 100% sure he's cleared or going to be cleared of any wrong doing.

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

There’s not many times a 25 year old proven elite qb becomes available.  Let’s not forget there was a bidding war between four teams for this guy once the criminal charges were dismissed.  The Browns did what they felt they had to in order to get him to Cleveland.  Now they’ll live with the consequences.

 

Again it's debatable whether or not he's truly elite and he's going to have a huge target on his back the rest of his career assuming he ever plays again to begin with.

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Deshaun Watson was in fact a true superstar. evidence number 1 as a Bills fan was the Texans playoff  comeback, it was almost all D Watson, he took  the team on his back and had a few borderline miraculous plays like the one where two bills  were on him and could bring him down for a sack and turned it into a big gainer.  Looks at his numbers two years ago, the man was a real superstar.

Super star is a bit bold.

 

very good QB.

 

At the end of 2020 there were a bunch who were better than him:

 

Mahomes, Josh, Rodgers, Brady, Rus.

 

Then you can argue guys like Lamar, Dak, Stafford.

 

This doesn't even include guys like Herbert and burrow as they were a bit young then.

 

Right now he comes in as what, 8-11 range? Assuming he gets his old form back.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[cle23]

12 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Super star is a bit bold.

 

very good QB.

 

At the end of 2020 there were a bunch who were better than him:

 

Mahomes, Josh, Rodgers, Brady, Rus.

 

Then you can argue guys like Lamar, Dak, Stafford.

 

This doesn't even include guys like Herbert and burrow as they were a bit young then.

 

Right now he comes in as what, 8-11 range? Assuming he gets his old form back.

 

At the end of 2020, Watson had the highest QBR in the league, with a much worse supporting cast than most of the guys you listed.  Led the league in yards,  and also had 33/7 TD to INT.

 

Obviously none of that excuses anything he is accused of,  but let's stop acting like he was a middle of the road QB before all this. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by cle23

[eball]

14 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I agree to an extent, but I don't think his talking points were that great.

 

I realize that he can't come out and apologize for his actions, for obvious reasons. 

 

"I do understand that I do have regrets as far as the impact that [it's had] on the community and people outside of just myself," Watson said. "And that includes my family. That includes this organization. That includes my teammates in this locker room that have to answer to these questions. That includes the fan base of the Cleveland Browns. That includes males, females, everyone across the, the world. That's one thing I do regret is the impact that it's triggered on so many people. It's tough to have to deal with."

 

All he's saying is that he "regrets the impact," on those tied closely to him - and on himself.  I interpret what he said as a backhanded way to call the accusers liars and to paint himself as a victim at the same time.

 

I still think he should just keep his mouth shut.

 

But as I said upstream in the thread ... I think the guy is who and what these women are saying he is and I'd be fine seeing his career come to an abrupt end.

 

 

It is Watson’s sheer arrogance that sickens me.  If one or two women file suit against you or make complaints, you say what he’s been saying.  But 26, with multiple other unfiled complaints?  Umm, dude, you are the problem, not them.  It’s not true that he can’t “apologize” because the suits are pending.  He could certainly apologize for not realizing that his “completely legitimate preferences” (in his mind, not mine) were offensive to some.

 

But that’s not how people are coached to act these days.  I won’t get political, but this is the era of “deny, deny, deny” and then try to actually change the definition of what “truth” is.

 

I hope Watson never sees the field again.

 

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Deshaun Watson was in fact a true superstar. evidence number 1 as a Bills fan was the Texans playoff  comeback, it was almost all D Watson, he took  the team on his back and had a few borderline miraculous plays like the one where two bills  were on him and could bring him down for a sack and turned it into a big gainer.  Looks at his numbers two years ago, the man was a real superstar.

 

 

for one season.  

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, cle23 said:

 

At the end of 2020, Watson had the highest QBR in the league, with a much worse supporting cast than most of the guys you listed.  Led the league in yards,  and also had 33/7 TD to INT.

 

Obviously none of that excuses anything he is accused of,  but let's stop acting like he was a middle of the road QB before all this. 

On a garbage team and Half those stats came when they were down 3-4 touchdowns.

 

Kirk cousins also puts up very pretty numbers but I don't think anyone is calling him a superstar.

 

But You're right, He wasn't a middle of the road QB.

 

He was a good to maybe very good QB.

 

But he certainly wasn't a superstar 

Edited June 15, 2022 by BillsFan130

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, cle23 said:

 

At the end of 2020, Watson had the highest QBR in the league, with a much worse supporting cast than most of the guys you listed.  Led the league in yards,  and also had 33/7 TD to INT.

 

Obviously none of that excuses anything he is accused of,  but let's stop acting like he was a middle of the road QB before all this. 

 

Look at how lopsided his splits are between behind, tied and ahead.  26 of his TD's were when he was behind on 367 attempts.  They were a 4-12 and behind a lot, especially late in games.

 

Not to mention the Texans averaged 24 points per game which is slightly below average.  

 

 

[cle23]

18 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Look at how lopsided his splits are between behind, tied and ahead.  26 of his TD's were when he was behind on 367 attempts.  They were a 4-12 and behind a lot, especially late in games.

 

Not to mention the Texans averaged 24 points per game which is slightly below average.  

 

 

 

 When you are on a bad team you are behind a lot. Those QBs also tend to throw a lot of interceptions, which he did not.  When it gets late in the game teams will go to prevent defense but if you're down 10 points in the 2nd quarter they're not just gonna let you walk down the field.  And like I said before, his supporting cast was absolute trash.

[Royale with Cheese]

16 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

 When you are on a bad team you are behind a lot. Those QBs also tend to throw a lot of interceptions, which he did not.  When it gets late in the game teams will go to prevent defense but if you're down 10 points in the 2nd quarter they're not just gonna let you walk down the field.  And like I said before, his supporting cast was absolute trash.

 

They were down by a lot, playing a lot of prevent defenses in the 4th quarter and still only averaged 24 points a game which was 18th in the league.

His splits weren't good when they were ahead.  That shows me he had a lot of garbage time stats.

 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

They were down by a lot, playing a lot of prevent defenses in the 4th quarter and still only averaged 24 points a game which was 18th in the league.

His splits weren't good when they were ahead.  That shows me he had a lot of garbage time stats.

 

 

They were behind a lot. They were not blown out a lot. 8 of their 12 losses were 1 score games and I watched a lot of their games that year they almost all genuinely came down to the final possession. 17 of the 26 you refer to came in those 1 score losses. 

 

Was there some garbage time inflation? Yea, sure. There always is on bad teams. But not as much as you would imagine. And go look at his weapons. I would argue 2020 was his best season as a pro despite his worst record. Whether he can ever play that well again is a different question.

[cle23]

6 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

On a garbage team and Half those stats came when they were down 3-4 touchdowns.

 

Kirk cousins also puts up very pretty numbers but I don't think anyone is calling him a superstar.

 

But You're right, He wasn't a middle of the road QB.

 

He was a good to maybe very good QB.

 

But he certainly wasn't a superstar 

 

So you say he was on a garbage team, then dismiss that he was playing on a garbage team the rest of the post.  Cousins has had elite WRs his entire time in Minnesota, and usually has 2 elite WRs between Diggs/Thielen/Jefferson.  Watson has 3 of his 4 season with QBR over 100, and his other was 93 or so, so it wasn't like this is a one time thing.  He is second all time in QB rating, granted in only 4 seasons.

 

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

They were down by a lot, playing a lot of prevent defenses in the 4th quarter and still only averaged 24 points a game which was 18th in the league.

His splits weren't good when they were ahead.  That shows me he had a lot of garbage time stats.

 

 

106.6 rating, 7TD/3INT with a 68.2% completion percentage while leading.  Granted not as good as when behind, but again, look at his supporting cast.  A bunch of average to below average players and Will Fuller, who is hurt ALL the time.

[BarleyNY]

10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Wow!  That was a very surprising read.  I would not have thought a LEO would take a guilty upon accusation and until proven innocent approach.  No corroborating evidence other than similar accusations (at least in the cases that officer investigated) is big. 

[BillsFan130]

5 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

So you say he was on a garbage team, then dismiss that he was playing on a garbage team the rest of the post.  Cousins has had elite WRs his entire time in Minnesota, and usually has 2 elite WRs between Diggs/Thielen/Jefferson.  Watson has 3 of his 4 season with QBR over 100, and his other was 93 or so, so it wasn't like this is a one time thing.  He is second all time in QB rating, granted in only 4 seasons.

 

 

106.6 rating, 7TD/3INT with a 68.2% completion percentage while leading.  Granted not as good as when behind, but again, look at his supporting cast.  A bunch of average to below average players and Will Fuller, who is hurt ALL the time.

You seem to be big on stats which is fine, we'll agree to disagree.

 

Cousins was 4th in QBR last year and Jimmy G was 9th, just saying.

 

 

 

 

[4merper4mer]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They were behind a lot. They were not blown out a lot. 

At first I thought this post was about Baker’s Cheesecake Factory adventures.

[cle23]

39 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

You seem to be big on stats which is fine, we'll agree to disagree.

 

Cousins was 4th in QBR last year and Jimmy G was 9th, just saying.

 

 

 

 

 

Stats are just a reference point.  It's one way to compare to other QBs, but obviously not the only way.

[BarleyNY]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/06/16/nflpas-defense-of-deshaun-watson-will-take-aim-at-nfls-treatment-of-multiple-owners/

 

The NFLPA intends to challenge any suspension of Watson, citing the very lenient handling of violations of owners Snyder, Kraft and Jones and the Personal Conduct Policy that states:

 

“Ownership and club or league management have traditionally been held to a higher standard and will be subject to more significant discipline when violations of the Personal Conduct Policy occur.”

 

I never thought the league would agree to a clause like that.  The NFL rarely holds owners accountable for just about anything so they had to see something like this coming. 

[FLFan]

On 6/15/2022 at 5:16 PM, BarleyNY said:

Wow!  That was a very surprising read.  I would not have thought a LEO would take a guilty upon accusation and until proven innocent approach.  No corroborating evidence other than similar accusations (at least in the cases that officer investigated) is big. 

I think this is precisely the normal approach of law enforcement.  The courts operate under an innocent until proven guilty presumption, at least theoretically.  Law Enforcement does not.  I think what that officer is saying is normal procedure, despite the attempt of the defense lawyer to twist it. 

[Mr. WEO]

26 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

The NFL rarely holds owners accountable for just about anything so they had to see something like this coming. 

 

Do you think that might result from the fact that "The NFL" is the owners?   Just kind of spitballing here...

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Do you think that might result from the fact that "The NFL" is the owners?   Just kind of spitballing here...

Absolutely.  But the best organizations keep their own house in order.  The NFL has failed in that.  Sooner or later that comes back to bite ya.  We’re seeing that with Snyder.  Do you think he’d have skimmed the other owners if he knew he would get hammered for it?  He wasn’t afraid.  

[Mr. WEO]

Owners don’t want anyone checking out their dirty laundry.  The money they are making with zero effort is just too insanely large that they don’t really care.  They have all known about Snyder running a gross organization for decades.  They did nothing.  Maybe now that he skimmed a few bucks off their take they might suddenly pretend to be indignant.  Who knows. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Owners don’t want anyone checking out their dirty laundry.  The money they are making with zero effort is just too insanely large that they don’t really care.  They have all known about Snyder running a gross organization for decades.  They did nothing.  Maybe now that he skimmed a few bucks off their take they might suddenly pretend to be indignant.  Who knows. 

I agree with all of that.  I’m just surprised they’d agree to a clause in the Personal Conduct Policy that states that they have to be more strict with owners than they do with players.  Oops. 

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I agree with all of that.  I’m just surprised they’d agree to a clause in the Personal Conduct Policy that states that they have to be more strict with owners than they do with players.  Oops. 

they can decide what their own “punishment” will be so it’s not really a problem for them 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

they can decide what their own “punishment” will be so it’s not really a problem for them 

I guess we will find out soon enough 

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/06/16/nflpas-defense-of-deshaun-watson-will-take-aim-at-nfls-treatment-of-multiple-owners/

 

The NFLPA intends to challenge any suspension of Watson, citing the very lenient handling of violations of owners Snyder, Kraft and Jones and the Personal Conduct Policy that states:

 

“Ownership and club or league management have traditionally been held to a higher standard and will be subject to more significant discipline when violations of the Personal Conduct Policy occur.”

 

I never thought the league would agree to a clause like that.  The NFL rarely holds owners accountable for just about anything so they had to see something like this coming. 

 

It's a good strategy from the NFLPA. They have to basically get to the place of demonstrating that the approach taken to Watson is irrational, so demonstrating where it is inconsistent with other punishments helps them in that endeavour. The issue will be that those were all single allegations and so it is not apples to apples. But it is a reminder, as if any were needed, that while the NFL has very broad discretion in its enforcement of its personal conduct policy it doesn't have carte blanche to operate irrationally. There needs to be a consistency in their approach. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's a good strategy from the NFLPA. They have to basically get to the place of demonstrating that the approach taken to Watson is irrational, so demonstrating where it is inconsistent with other punishments helps them in that endeavour. The issue will be that those were all single allegations and so it is not apples to apples. But it is a reminder, as if any were needed, that while the NFL has very broad discretion in its enforcement of its personal conduct policy it doesn't have carte blanche to operate irrationally. There needs to be a consistency in their approach. 

I agree with all of that except the single allegations part.  I’m not sure about Jones, but Kraft made multiple visits to that massage parlor and there were a multitude of women making allegations against Snyder.  Those might’ve gotten rolled up into a single charge or class action suit, but there was more than one event and woman involved in both.

[Steel City Mafia]

 

[wjag]

17 minutes ago, Steel City Mafia said:

 

buh bye.