Rd 6, Pick 180 (1): Punter Matt Araiza, San Diego State

[Doc]

53 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

At first I rolled my eyes with this pick but if he ends up being a stud punter and fixing a problem that has plagued this team in recent years than it will probably be perceived as a steal down the road.

 

If anything was actually surprised he wasn't the first punter drafted and Baltimore chose the PSU kid instead earlier.

 

I rolled my eyes when the first punter went in the 4th round at pick #130 (using the pick the Bills traded to the Ravens).  The Bills got Araiza over a round later.

[Warcodered]

40 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Having a legit backup FG and kickoff kicker is a nice luxury. 

But who holds for him?

[Doc]

Just now, Warcodered said:

But who holds for him?

 

Bass.

[Warcodered]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Bass.

So Araiza will kick FGs if Bass is injured, but Bass while injured will hold?

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

So Araiza will kick FGs if Bass is injured, but Bass while injured will hold?

 

Good point.  I wasn't looking at it like Bass was injured.  In that case, they re-sign Haack.

[PetermansRedemption]

9 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

But who holds for him?

If in game, I’d imagine whoever the backup QB is will go to that role. If I recall correctly, didn’t they used to do it anyways? Or is that just my madden playing days coming back to me. 

[Ralonzo]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Having a legit backup FG and kickoff kicker is a nice luxury. 

It’s mitigated by the different footed-ness of the kickers, unless someone is on the roster who can adequately hold for the lefty. It’s an emergency thing but probably won’t be a big consideration post-covid.

[The Dean]

57 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I rolled my eyes when the first punter went in the 4th round at pick #130 (using the pick the Bills traded to the Ravens).  The Bills got Araiza over a round later.

 

 

TWO Punters were selected in front of Matt. And for what it's worth, Kiper had them ranked in the order they were picked.

[The Dean]

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/nfl/news/nfl-draft-matt-araiza-punt-god-bills/dgmyhjvtoiyxcwqqkdaajiez

 

[Conlan58]

Man... the days of Moorman really had a lasting effect on us TSW Bills Fans... 27 pages for a 6th round punter and only 28 pages for our 2nd round RB selection. Can't wait til the first time Araiza lays someone out in punt coverage - this place is going to implode. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Conlan58 said:

Man... the days of Moorman really had a lasting effect on us TSW Bills Fans... 27 pages for a 6th round punter and only 28 pages for our 2nd round RB selection. Can't wait til the first time Araiza lays someone out in punt coverage - this place is going to implode. 

 

Yeah but 61 for Elam and 36 for Bernard.

[newcam2012]

16 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

 

TWO Punters were selected in front of Matt. And for what it's worth, Kiper had them ranked in the order they were picked.

The other 2 punters have experience being holders for their field goal kickers. Matt has no experience holding. I think that is the reason he wasn't drafted earlier. It's a pretty big deal if he isn't a solid holder. Hopefully, he can do it well. 

[The Dean]

11 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The other 2 punters have experience being holders for their field goal kickers. Matt has no experience holding. I think that is the reason he wasn't drafted earlier. It's a pretty big deal if he isn't a solid holder. Hopefully, he can do it well. 

 

It also has to do with hang time and the ability to consistently place the ball inside the 10. 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/05/03/2022-nfl-draft-bills-punter-matt-araiza-motivated-after-slide/

 

With that said, I think the Bills picked a winner here. I love that he likes to hit. I hope he doesn't have to do it much in the NFL but love the mindset. 

[Buffalo716]

24 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The other 2 punters have experience being holders for their field goal kickers. Matt has no experience holding. I think that is the reason he wasn't drafted earlier. It's a pretty big deal if he isn't a solid holder. Hopefully, he can do it well. 

The others had better hangtime too

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The others had better hangtime too

 

They did...

[Cash]

31 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

It also has to do with hang time and the ability to consistently place the ball inside the 10. 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/05/03/2022-nfl-draft-bills-punter-matt-araiza-motivated-after-slide/

 

With that said, I think the Bills picked a winner here. I love that he likes to hit. I hope he doesn't have to do it much in the NFL but love the mindset. 

 

I think the Bills probably had Araiza no higher than 2nd on their Punter Big Board.  (Which I'll assume is an actual physical board at 1BD until proven otherwise.)  The guy the Ravens drafted has almost as big of a leg as Araiza, but looks to be much better at hangtime and directional kicking.  Fair enough.  But there's two plusses for Araiza from my perspective:

 

1.) By the time we get to midfield, we should be going for it on 4th down anyway.  So having a punter who's a little shaky at the coffin corner will only encourage McDermott to trust the offense.  This is a good thing.

 

2.) As The Dean mentioned, he likes to hit!  I don't think him making tackles is particularly going to help our punt coverage, but our team thrives on emotion.  Araiza making a big hit on a punt (or kickoff) could be the type of thing that gets the defense fired up, and they usually play better when they're fired up.

[The Dean]

1 hour ago, Cash said:

 

I think the Bills probably had Araiza no higher than 2nd on their Punter Big Board.  (Which I'll assume is an actual physical board at 1BD until proven otherwise.)  The guy the Ravens drafted has almost as big of a leg as Araiza, but looks to be much better at hangtime and directional kicking.  Fair enough.  But there's two plusses for Araiza from my perspective:

 

1.) By the time we get to midfield, we should be going for it on 4th down anyway.  So having a punter who's a little shaky at the coffin corner will only encourage McDermott to trust the offense.  This is a good thing.

 

2.) As The Dean mentioned, he likes to hit!  I don't think him making tackles is particularly going to help our punt coverage, but our team thrives on emotion.  Araiza making a big hit on a punt (or kickoff) could be the type of thing that gets the defense fired up, and they usually play better when they're fired up.

 

 

On point, #2, yes, the Bills are PROBABLY going for it, depending on down, distance, score and other possible variables.  4th and 25, after a couple penalties?  Dunno about you, but I'm punting.  And obviously you want a punter that can place the ball inside the 10 or 15, at least.  I know that is an extreme example, but there are situations where punting at midfield makes sense, no matter how much confidence you have in your offense. And I think Araiza will be fine, as he begins to work on that. 

 

So I agree this probably won't change McDermott's strategy much, but I also don't think having a punter that excels in placing it in the "coffin corner" would impact the decision making much, either. 

[BearNorth]

San Diego weather from Labor Day on is a LOT different than Buffalo weather.

 

All his games last year were in relatively warm air and a couple of them at altitude [Air Force, Arizona] where we know the ball goes farther.

 

His home games were played at 50 feet above sea level, but again in warm weather.

 

Wonder how he'll do in conditions similar to the first 2021 NE game at the OP, freezing with gusts off the lake.

 

 

 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

It also has to do with hang time and the ability to consistently place the ball inside the 10. 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/05/03/2022-nfl-draft-bills-punter-matt-araiza-motivated-after-slide/

 

With that said, I think the Bills picked a winner here. I love that he likes to hit. I hope he doesn't have to do it much in the NFL but love the mindset. 

I really like the pick too. 

[Punching Bag]

On 4/30/2022 at 6:48 PM, Meatloaf63 said:

Back up qb should do it, opens up possibilities…

 

They used to until NFLPA clamped down on number of practices, even non-contract ones.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, BearNorth said:

San Diego weather from Labor Day on is a LOT different than Buffalo weather.

 

All his games last year were in relatively warm air and a couple of them at altitude [Air Force, Arizona] where we know the ball goes farther.

 

His home games were played at 50 feet above sea level, but again in warm weather.

 

Wonder how he'll do in conditions similar to the first 2021 NE game at the OP, freezing with gusts off the lake.

 

 

 

 

With the wind in WNY at some of our games, it feels like a mini-miracle if they can even make contact with the ball to punt it. The drop from hand to foot is not very far, unless you are doing it with 35 mph gusts. That will take some getting used to! 

 

 

 

.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Augie

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, Conlan58 said:

Man... the days of Moorman really had a lasting effect on us TSW Bills Fans... 27 pages for a 6th round punter and only 28 pages for our 2nd round RB selection. Can't wait til the first time Araiza lays someone out in punt coverage - this place is going to implode. 

 

Well Moorman was an All-Pro who also tackled when needed (8 solo tackles registered not counting those not due to penalties),  kickoffs when needed, ran for downs and threw for 1st downs and TDs.

 

I do hope he gets to lay someone out at home on punt coverage and gets to Basque [sic] in the glory.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Limeaid

[Cash]

1 hour ago, The Dean said:

 

 

On point, #2, yes, the Bills are PROBABLY going for it, depending on down, distance, score and other possible variables.  4th and 25, after a couple penalties?  Dunno about you, but I'm punting.  And obviously you want a punter that can place the ball inside the 10 or 15, at least.  I know that is an extreme example, but there are situations where punting at midfield makes sense, no matter how much confidence you have in your offense. And I think Araiza will be fine, as he begins to work on that. 

 

So I agree this probably won't change McDermott's strategy much, but I also don't think having a punter that excels in placing it in the "coffin corner" would impact the decision making much, either. 

 

Agreed - this is a marginal difference to be sure.  I'm just thinking like a 4th down with something like 4 to 10 yards to go.  If we had Jordan Stout, maybe McD thinks we can pin them inside the 5 and goes conservative.

 

One additional thought:  I know some of the HATERZ have criticized Araiza's kicks for being too much the line drive variety.  That's probably a legitimate criticism.  But on the plus side, a line drive typically cuts through the wind better than a moonshot.  And we all know what a challenge the wind in Orchard Park can be.  Haack in particular seemed to really struggle.  Seems like there were at least half a dozen punts last year that looked good off his foot, but then just hung up in the air and went nowhere.

[The Dean]

10 minutes ago, Cash said:

 

Agreed - this is a marginal difference to be sure.  I'm just thtypicallyinking like a 4th down with something like 4 to 10 yards to go.  If we had Jordan Stout, maybe McD thinks we can pin them inside the 5 and goes conservative.

 

One additional thought:  I know some of the HATERZ have criticized Araiza's kicks for being too much the line drive variety.  That's probably a legitimate criticism.  But on the plus side, a line drive typically cuts through the wind better than a moonshot.  And we all know what a challenge the wind in Orchard Park can be.  Haack in particular seemed to really struggle.  Seems like there were at least half a dozen punts last year that looked good off his foot, but then just hung up in the air and went nowhere.

 

Excellent point. Agreed

[Mr. WEO]

how did he drop to the 3rd P picked?

[unbillievable]

15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

how did he drop to the 3rd P picked?

The same reason Josh Allen was the 3rd QB picked: A lot of upside but still learning the position.

[Mr. WEO]

17 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

The same reason Josh Allen was the 3rd QB picked: A lot of upside but still learning the position.

 

 

Leaving aside the obvious point that learning to QB a team in the NFL is a bit different than.....punting (and the fact that the Bills traded UP 5 spots to take Josh at 7),  the kid was widely mocked as the 1st or second P to go.  He had the best Punting season in college football history, won the Ray Guy award and was a unanimous 1st Team All American.  Seems like he figured out the punting game pretty quickly.   

Edited May 3, 2022 by Mr. WEO

[HappyDays]

Skimming through the last pages of the thread, it's crazy how concerned people are about Araiza learning to hold for FGs. I don't remember holding ever being a talking point until Corey Bojorquez came onto the scene. It isn't a difficult skill, Bojorquez just happened to be so inexplicably bad at it that it became an area of concern for Bills fans.

 

If there's anything Araiza really needs to work on it's hang time and control. Any random college athlete can learn to be a holder. Except Corey Bojorquez for some reason.

[unbillievable]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Leaving aside the obvious point that learning to QB a team in the NFL is a bit different than.....punting (and the fact that the Bills traded UP 5 spots to take Josh at 7),  the kid was widely mocked as the 1st or second P to go.  He had the best Punting season in college football history, won the Ray Guy award and was a unanimous 1st Team All American.  Seems like he figured out the punting game pretty quickly.   

 

Apparently, learning how to hold a FG is as difficult as figuring out how to read a defense. 

[unbillievable]

I'm going to say it now: If they tell the kid to kick it into the bleachers every time, I won't care if he ever gets one inside the 20.

Bonus points if he can doink it off Dallas' scoreboard.

 

 

 

[freddyjj]

On 4/30/2022 at 7:47 PM, MAJBobby said:

Why?  BU QBs hold all the time. 

if it pleases the court, may I present exhibit one

 

 

[Doc]

13 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Leaving aside the obvious point that learning to QB a team in the NFL is a bit different than.....punting (and the fact that the Bills traded UP 5 spots to take Josh at 7),  the kid was widely mocked as the 1st or second P to go.  He had the best Punting season in college football history, won the Ray Guy award and was a unanimous 1st Team All American.  Seems like he figured out the punting game pretty quickly.   

 

As long as he become a good punter, who cares?  And they didn't have to spend a 4th rounder on him.

[BearNorth]

4 hours ago, unbillievable said:

I'm going to say it now: If they tell the kid to kick it into the bleachers every time, I won't care if he ever gets one inside the 20.

Bonus points if he can doink it off Dallas' scoreboard.

 

 

 

Along this train of thought, what do the analytics say about expected points added from scoring drives starting at the 20, vs. inside the 20? Wondering how big the difference is, including the defensive points that result from pinning a team.

[GolfandBills]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

how did he drop to the 3rd P picked?

Because the media hyped him up to be something he wasn’t and people soak up whatever they are told 

[BearNorth]

Just found this article.  Pretty interesting stuff, also explains why Stout went well ahead of Araiza.  Also answers some of my question about analytics and punting.

 

https://phillycovercorner.com/2022/03/whats-the-value-of-a-good-punt-and-some-more-jordan-stout/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=whats-the-value-of-a-good-punt-and-some-more-jordan-stout

 

Stout rarely has touchbacks, nearly twice as good as the average NFL punter.

 

[Mr. WEO]

39 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

Because the media hyped him up to be something he wasn’t and people soak up whatever they are told 

 

He WAS the Ray Guy Award winner.  He WAS a unanimous 1st Team All American.

 

Not sure what you are getting at there....

[JESSEFEFFER]

2 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

Because the media hyped him up to be something he wasn’t and people soak up whatever they are told 

I would say that this is somewhat true.  He is a punter with one year of experience at the collegiate level and he lacks all the nuances to punting at the professional level.  But let's not pretend that it needs to be that big of a challenge.  He isn't as skilled as he needs to be but I would not think it will be that difficult to make big improvements before and during his rookie season.  He is going to get the coaching and time to do it like never before.   It's almost the same "pro ready" vs. "high ceiling" discussion we went through with Josh over the last 4 years.

[LEBills]

6 hours ago, BearNorth said:

Just found this article.  Pretty interesting stuff, also explains why Stout went well ahead of Araiza.  Also answers some of my question about analytics and punting.

 

https://phillycovercorner.com/2022/03/whats-the-value-of-a-good-punt-and-some-more-jordan-stout/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=whats-the-value-of-a-good-punt-and-some-more-jordan-stout

 

Stout rarely has touchbacks, nearly twice as good as the average NFL punter.

 

I think what I learned from that article is we should try to get Drew Hartlaub (PSU #37) who just signed as a UDFA with the Panthers. Dude saved three of Stout’s punts from going into the end zone in those handful of examples

[John from Riverside]

9 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

Because the media hyped him up to be something he wasn’t and people soak up whatever they are told 

Interesting....the guy was mocked like in 4th round for months on mulitiple mocks then all of a sudde "he isnt something"

 

Oh well.....it worked out for us

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 5/3/2022 at 11:24 AM, Conlan58 said:

Man... the days of Moorman really had a lasting effect on us TSW Bills Fans... 27 pages for a 6th round punter and only 28 pages for our 2nd round RB selection. Can't wait til the first time Araiza lays someone out in punt coverage - this place is going to implode. 

Just get EZ seats. Matt may be kicking balls into the stands. 
 

Net is only up for FG’s if I’m not mistaken