Justin Bannan [12 yr NFL vet, drafted by Bills] sentenced to 16 years in prison...

[HamptonBillsfan]

16 minutes ago, buffalonian said:

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.  

Thank you for your learned opinion. 

[NoSaint]

34 minutes ago, Reks Ryan said:

You can use mental health as a reason for almost every murder or attempted murder.  Who in their right mind would intentionally try to kill another person unless to defend yourself or someone else? 
 

Mental health Doesn’t make it alright and doesn’t mean the offender shouldn’t face harsh punishment.

 

 

i don’t know that I’ve ever seen someone here ever earnestly argue murder is alright if a result of insanity. And I’ve seen people argue damn near every side of nearly every possible argument that could be had

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

all fair, the new link I just shared talks about cte as a court defense, and the challenges of cte paired with drug use being a real challenge in front of a jury. 
 

honestly, don’t have the bandwidth to be a bannon expert researcher but it’s an interesting topic in the abstract of head injuries, emotional trauma of his best friend committing suicide and potential self medication with drugs. I won’t claim to have any idea how his puzzle pieces fit together other than there were likely some pieces missing or damaged and it caused a bunch of trauma to a bunch of folks.

i did read the article (predates the trial I think).  Regardless of whether CTE would ultimately succeed with jury, I believe obvious mental status issues were never broached as a defense.  Given that there is no other conceivable defense, why not put it out there?

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

i did read the article (predates the trial I think).  Regardless of whether CTE would ultimately succeed with jury, I believe obvious mental status issues were never broached as a defense.  Given that there is no other conceivable defense, why not put it out there?

Totally fair question. I didn’t follow the trial, and only know so much about his day to day or his states legal thresholds, if being honest. 

[buffalonian]

16 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Thank you for your learned opinion. 

I'm a lawyer. I've spent the last 20 years working on criminal cases, most of them death penalty cases, in several states.  I've spent years learning to understand how mental illness intersects with the criminal justice system.  So yes, my opinion is "learned." Your series of comments in this thread however,  are not connected to reality.  Yet you speak with the confidence like you have some knowledge of the subject matter, which you clearly do not.  

[K-9]

44 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

I remember him as the dude who went to like 7 superbowls.

 

which is probably why the russians wanted him.....

I think that was Mike Lodish. 

[PetermansRedemption]

4 hours ago, dwight in philly said:

Who got a longer sentence , OJ  or Bannan ? in actual jail time ? not sure what OJ was sentenced to in Vegas 

OJ was sentenced to 33 years and served 9 before being paroled. IMO, his sentence was largely due to the judge making up for his acquittal. There are people who actually get convicted of murder who do far less than 33 years. 

[BillsShredder83]

3 hours ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

That's it, let's blame the country,society at large and every other aspect of his environment ,when someone violently commits crimes and destroys innocent victims. Pity the victims. 

Nice try, not what I said at all. Also, doesn't invalidate this being revenge not reform. 

If we want to reduce victims, we should get people help. Instead he'll get zero help, be 15 years hardened, and exiting jail with a chip on his shoulder bigger than when he went in.

Is revenge making things safer for anyone in society?

[Milanos Milano]

1 hour ago, Reks Ryan said:

You can use mental health as a reason for almost every murder or attempted murder.  Who in their right mind would intentionally try to kill another person unless to defend yourself or someone else? 
 

Mental health Doesn’t make it alright and doesn’t mean the offender shouldn’t face harsh punishment.

 

This whole situation is tragic. I feel bad for both parties, but obviously more for the victim. I’m not sure I agree with the sentence in this case, seems a bit harsh given the circumstances. Thankfully this women wasn’t killed, so that alone should mean something, if she had died, then the sentence seems appropriate. From reading the article, it doesn’t appear to have been premeditated or any kind of maliciousness. In his mind it was self defense. While I understand that still doesn’t justify what went down, perceived real or unreal, he seemed to be under great stress during this duration (whether it was from a real mafia or a drug induced paranoia.) He made bad decisions (Be it tied up into a mafia organization or cocaine), so he has to at least be punished for that, but drugs truly mess up people who normally wouldn’t act the way they do. I hope he get’s help for his personal demons, just like I hope the woman gets the help and financial support she deserves for forever being traumatized. Life is a lot more complex than just the victim and the evil criminal narrative. 

1 hour ago, Da webster guy said:

I remember him as the dude who went to like 7 superbowls.

 

which is probably why the russians wanted him.....

Whether he was actually being pursued by Russians or drug induced paranoia which made him think he was is just sad. That kind of fear and paranoia will make people do some really irrational things. I just hope everyone that get’s this bad mentally gets the help they need.

[AlfaBill]

4 hours ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

That's it, let's blame the country,society at large and every other aspect of his environment ,when someone violently commits crimes and destroys innocent victims. Pity the victims. 

If you read the article you’d know something was wrong with this guys head. He’s not a criminal. Was confused and high. Probably has CTE as well. 

[Momma Pecoraro]

1 hour ago, Da webster guy said:

I remember him as the dude who went to like 7 superbowls.

 

Lodish. 

[MJS]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

CTE is real 

"Prosecutors, meanwhile, argued that Bannan was voluntarily intoxicated at the time of the shooting. The ex-lineman was carrying a rolled-up $20 bill that contained traces of cocaine at the time of his arrest, according to police records, and prosecutors said he tested positive for cocaine at a pre-trial drug test in April 2020."

 

CTE? More like Cocaine brain.

[Milanos Milano]

8 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Nice try, not what I said at all. Also, doesn't invalidate this being revenge not reform. 

If we want to reduce victims, we should get people help. Instead he'll get zero help, be 15 years hardened, and exiting jail with a chip on his shoulder bigger than when he went in.

Is revenge making things safer for anyone in society?

Agreed. People need help for varying reasons. Shaming mental health debates and support is just the root of the problems. While I don’t think criminals should go free, I think individual cases should be factored in a lot more than they currently are. Jail often times makes things worse than it otherwise would have. Jail is a type of psychological warfare that often hardens criminals more than it does to correct the unwanted behaviors that landed them in there to begin with. Socioeconomics and drug abuse often complicate things that cause people to be labeled evil. Most violent crimes aren’t committed by true sociopaths. But once in a while, you encounter a true EVIL person without any reasonable socio induced problems that could make one think that society in some way damaged them. 

[MJS]

6 minutes ago, AlfaBill said:

If you read the article you’d know something was wrong with this guys head. He’s not a criminal. Was confused and high. Probably has CTE as well. 

Drugs.

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

"Prosecutors, meanwhile, argued that Bannan was voluntarily intoxicated at the time of the shooting. The ex-lineman was carrying a rolled-up $20 bill that contained traces of cocaine at the time of his arrest, according to police records, and prosecutors said he tested positive for cocaine at a pre-trial drug test in April 2020."

 

CTE? More like Cocaine brain.

Either way, it’s incredibly sad. Bad decisions have left this man so paranoid that he probably acted out in a behavior that probably wouldn’t have happened being sober. I’m not sure doing 16 years of hard time is going to really fix that issue, and I think this is where social reforms are needed. Obviously as a collective society we want to prevent these kind of evil behaviors from happening again on some totally innocent person. But I feel like there could be a better way. 

[MJS]

12 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Either way, it’s incredibly sad. Bad decisions have left this man so paranoid that he probably acted out in a behavior that probably wouldn’t have happened being sober. I’m not sure doing 16 years of hard time is going to really fix that issue, and I think this is where social reforms are needed. Obviously as a collective society we want to prevent these kind of evil behaviors from happening again on some totally innocent person. But I feel like there could be a better way. 

He chose to do drugs and he killed someone. I personally feel that all this empathy and focus on the killer does a disservice to the victim and their family.

 

Being locked behind bars for 16 years is 16 years that people are safer and don't need to worry about him killing anyone else. Hopefully he can overcome his addictions and mental issues before he is free, so that he doesn't hurt anyone else.

[Milanos Milano]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

He chose to do drugs and he killed someone. I personally feel that all this empathy and focus on the killer does a disservice to the victim and their family.

 

Being locked behind bars for 16 years is 16 years that people are safer and don't need to worry about him killing anyone else. Hopefully he can overcome his addictions and mental issues before he is free, so that he doesn't hurt anyone else.

He didn’t kill the woman. Which should count for something. While I still feel sorry for the woman and her ordeal, the victim-criminal relationship needs more deeper understanding. In this guys case, 16 years seems excessive, especially if he has no other prior violent crimes. 

[Buffalo716]

33 minutes ago, MJS said:

"Prosecutors, meanwhile, argued that Bannan was voluntarily intoxicated at the time of the shooting. The ex-lineman was carrying a rolled-up $20 bill that contained traces of cocaine at the time of his arrest, according to police records, and prosecutors said he tested positive for cocaine at a pre-trial drug test in April 2020."

 

CTE? More like Cocaine brain.

There's millions of people who have done a lot of cocaine and never thought the Russians were after them in a paranoid delusion

 

It sounds like there's wires not crossed there  , and there's millions of football players who are at risk of brain damage and cte

 

I'm not making excuses for him it's a tragedy..  but people get brain trauma and absolutely turn into different people 

 

It sounds like he was delusional 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Arkady Renko said:

The law treats you differently if you were intoxicated by a spiked drink for example. 

 

Thank you, that make sense.  I was wondering what the point of the “voluntarily” bit was

[Brand J]

It can be drugs AND a mental health issue like CTE. One doesn’t preclude the other. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It does beg the question as to why, if he is mentally ill, such a story would not have made a compelling insanity defense.   It's not even listed as having been considered.

 

It’s in one of the articles linked above in this thread:

Quote

Bannan, 42, has since pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. His trial is set to begin in June. He has claimed that he was incapable of distinguishing right from wrong when he pulled the trigger that afternoon – and that head trauma from his NFL career, including the neurodegenerative brain disease commonly known as CTE, is to blame.

 

4 hours ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

You're already assuming there is a medical excuse for Bannans actions. Why? Did he have a history of mental illness? Did he have opportunities for therapy? Did he have criminal inclinations previously? Wouldn't the defense have used mental defect as a defense if it was reasonable?  Maybe Bannan was just a desperate, violent criminal who never even considered this poor lady would get killed. 

 

See above

 

Sounds as though the defense was put forth, but the jury didn’t buy it.  The cocaine use was a competing narrative.

[Milanos Milano]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

There's millions of people who have done a lot of cocaine and never thought the Russians were after them in a paranoid delusion

 

It sounds like there's wires not crossed there  , and there's millions of football players who are at risk of brain damage and cte

 

I'm not making excuses for him it's a tragedy..  but people get brain trauma and absolutely turn into different people 

 

It sounds like he was delusional 

 

 

 

It’s a great sadness all the way around. The woman will likely need counseling for the PTSD of opening doorways and other perceived threats due to the encounter, not to mention the financial loss due to potential bodily harm or future complications. I’m just glad nobody was killed in this tragedy. Drugs and whatever mental problems this guy had likely caused him to do things he normally wouldn’t have done. While I do think people should face some kind of punishment or corrective action, I’m not a firm believer that jail is the right solution for a lot of the criminals in the system now. Obviously some people need some kind of social isolation to prevent uncorrectable behaviors from happening again to unsuspecting innocent people, but some kind of new reform system is greatly needed. The fact people here or in society make “drop the soap” jokes or wish it onto criminals is just as evil as the crimes these people commit. NOBODY deserves unwanted sexual violence or any assault while in prison, not even hardened criminals. The fact that it is even tolerated within these institutions should be a crime in of itself. All that stuff does is create even more psychological trauma on criminals to the point where they will never be correctable. 

[JMF2006]

Coked out and a loaded gun is not a good combo.

 

Like the Kinks once sang..."paranoia big destroyer"

7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

There's millions of people who have done a lot of cocaine and never thought the Russians were after them in a paranoid delusion

 

It sounds like there's wires not crossed there  , and there's millions of football players who are at risk of brain damage and cte

 

I'm not making excuses for him it's a tragedy..  but people get brain trauma and absolutely turn into different people 

 

It sounds like he was delusional 

 

 

 

 

Who knows how long his run was...he could have been up for days.

 

[colin]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

He chose to do drugs and he killed someone. I personally feel that all this empathy and focus on the killer does a disservice to the victim and their family.

 

Being locked behind bars for 16 years is 16 years that people are safer and don't need to worry about him killing anyone else. Hopefully he can overcome his addictions and mental issues before he is free, so that he doesn't hurt anyone else.

 

i agree w you dude and think this fishing for excuses for a guy who shot a woman walking into her office is sad and woke.

 

that said, i don't think he killed someone, did he?  looks like he just hurt her, not killed her.

 

people often treat mental illness like witchcraft, it's a magic thing and when someone is under the spell then they are being mind controlled and nothing they do is there fault at all!!

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It’s in one of the articles linked above in this thread:

 

 

See above

 

Sounds as though the defense was put forth, but the jury didn’t buy it.  The cocaine use was a competing narrative.

 

I saw, yes.  That article was pretrial. 

[SirAndrew]

9 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

i don’t know that I’ve ever seen someone here ever earnestly argue murder is alright if a result of insanity. And I’ve seen people argue damn near every side of nearly every possible argument that could be had

This debate happens on the board whenever one of these incidents occur. I just struggle with people being upset about a long sentence, without offering real alternatives. I’m in favor of rehabilitation and mental health, but how should that look? The best thing for society can be getting someone off the street, so others aren’t victimized. People love talking about compassion and mental illness, but I don’t hear solutions. I hear sorrow over his sentence, without anyone saying what should be done. Mandatory weekly visits to a therapists couch isn’t enough. I also remind people that mental illness doesn’t always equal violence, and not all violence is committed by the mentally ill. 

[SoTier]

11 hours ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Violent crime is exploding in cities throughout the country because of prioritizing the backgrounds of criminals  and mentally  ill street people,  eliminating bail and not prosecuting crimes. We're not getting people into therapy, we're just allowing them to terrorize innocent law abiding elderly and vulnerable targets.

 

There would be much less violent crime if so many Americans and their elected representatives didn't subscribe to the "every nut deserves to have his own private arsenal" mantra and oppose any and all measures to limit guns getting into the hands of people who shouldn't have them.  There would be even much less violent crime if so many individual Americans who appear to be law abiding citizens didn't aid and abet criminals and mentally unstable people from obtaining guns because they dislike the gun laws that are in place.   There would be so much less violent crime if so many Americans got their heads out of their butts and didn't consider hand guns as a first resort rather than the very last resort in confrontations.

 

It's much easier to blame somebody else than looking in a mirror.

 

7 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

It can be drugs AND a mental health issue like CTE. One doesn’t preclude the other. 

 

Actually, mental problems and drugs/alcohol abuse frequently go hand-in-hand because many mentally ill individuals self-medicate with drugs or alcohol.   Many of the individuals who come to mind when we think of "the homeless" -- bearded alcoholics living in boxes -- are mentally ill individuals.  Many meds used to treat mental issues have significant side-effects that discourage patients who suffer from those side effect from taking those meds.  They then self-medicate to mitigate their mental issues. 

[Big Turk]

13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The Russian mafia? In Boulder Colorado? Seriously? More likely drug paranoia. Jeez, what a shame.

 

You'd be surprised...they have a large presence in Columbus, OH.

[HamptonBillsfan]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It’s in one of the articles linked above in this thread:

 

 

See above

 

Sounds as though the defense was put forth, but the jury didn’t buy it.  The cocaine use was a competing narrative.

I'm impressed with your investigative skills. Besides being a bit heavy handed, you add a lot to the  board.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

I'm impressed with your investigative skills. Besides being a bit heavy handed, you add a lot to the  board.

 

Would you like me to make you a banner announcing "I am the sleeper account/new identity of someone who got in trouble here"?

[HamptonBillsfan]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It’s in one of the articles linked above in this thread:

 

 

See above

 

Sounds as though the defense was put forth, but the jury didn’t buy it.  The cocaine use was a competing narrative.

Sounds like a desperate attempt to use the CTE narrative to justify shooting an innocent citizen. How about just getting this violent, privileged, pampered ex-NFL player,who couldn't deal with getting a real job after football, away from vulnerable, innocent people. 

[TheBrownBear]

4 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

Coked out and a loaded gun is not a good combo.

 

Like the Kinks once sang..."paranoia big destroyer"

 

Who knows how long his run was...he could have been up for days.

 

Exactly.  He might have CTE, but he almost certainly had cocaine psychosis.  Read a little bit about David Bowie's Station to Station sessions while he was living in Los Angeles in the 1970s - months long frightening psychotic break due to HEAVY cocaine usage.  You don't have to be mentally ill or brain damaged to go off the deep end like that.  I've seen friends become severely paranoid from partying that got out of control.  There's a reason for that Rick James quote.

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Would you like me to make you a banner announcing "I am the sleeper account/new identity of someone who got in trouble here"?

Why are you threatening this dude (unless it's an inside joke or something)?  

[HamptonBillsfan]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Would you like me to make you a banner announcing "I am the sleeper account/new identity of someone who got in trouble here"?

What trouble , we're all here to have a few laughs and discuss the team we love. You just overreact sometimes. All in all, you do good job keeping the rhythm going. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

You'd be surprised...they have a large presence in Columbus, OH.

 

We were driving through Pennsylvania on Easter looking for someplace to eat dinner a few years back.  Most restaurants were closed.

 

Finally we found an open restaurant, Russian.  Most of the menu was "not available, will be made tomorrow" and we were the only ones eating there except for a table of "wise guy" looking types in leather jackets, but they did give us naturally-dyed hardboiled eggs as a traditional "Easter" gift to guests. 

 

Came out of the restroom and approached the waitress (who didn't speak much English) to tell her the lightbulb was out.  Right away, one of the guys was there, looming tall in his leather jacket: "Is There Problem?"  "I was just trying to explain the lightbulb is burnt out in the bathroom, and needs to be replaced".

 

We were given two gallons of frozen milkshake mix and told "Come any time, as if it was your home" when we left.

 

We've always thought it was some sort of front for the Russian Trucking Mafia.

 

 

[Gugny]

How did the bullet go from the shoulder to the funny bone?

[Beast]

17 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

if this was  mostly rooted in mental health thats sad, and a sad reflection on this country. thats revenge, not reform

 

No, it's actually punishment for shooting at people in a car and hitting one, not "revenge".

 

14 hours ago, buffalonian said:

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.  

 

Actually, he has a pretty damned good idea what he's talking about.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Beast

[MJS]

5 hours ago, colin said:

 

i agree w you dude and think this fishing for excuses for a guy who shot a woman walking into her office is sad and woke.

 

that said, i don't think he killed someone, did he?  looks like he just hurt her, not killed her.

 

people often treat mental illness like witchcraft, it's a magic thing and when someone is under the spell then they are being mind controlled and nothing they do is there fault at all!!

Yes, I incorrectly interpreted "shot" as killed when I read it. He is lucky she wasn't killed.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We were driving through Pennsylvania on Easter looking for someplace to eat dinner a few years back.  Most restaurants were closed.

 

Finally we found an open restaurant, Russian.  Most of the menu was "not available, will be made tomorrow" and we were the only ones eating there except for a table of "wise guy" looking types in leather jackets, but they did give us naturally-dyed hardboiled eggs as a traditional "Easter" gift to guests. 

 

Came out of the restroom and approached the waitress (who didn't speak much English) to tell her the lightbulb was out.  Right away, one of the guys was there, looming tall in his leather jacket: "Is There Problem?"  "I was just trying to explain the lightbulb is burnt out in the bathroom, and needs to be replaced".

 

We were given two gallons of frozen milkshake mix and told "Come any time, as if it was your home" when we left.

 

We've always thought it was some sort of front for the Russian Trucking Mafia.

 

 

 

Yeah that sounds like a definite sham operation...there are a lot of Chinese restaurants like that in the inner cities too.

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

This debate happens on the board whenever one of these incidents occur. I just struggle with people being upset about a long sentence, without offering real alternatives. I’m in favor of rehabilitation and mental health, but how should that look? The best thing for society can be getting someone off the street, so others aren’t victimized. People love talking about compassion and mental illness, but I don’t hear solutions. I hear sorrow over his sentence, without anyone saying what should be done. Mandatory weekly visits to a therapists couch isn’t enough. I also remind people that mental illness doesn’t always equal violence, and not all violence is committed by the mentally ill. 

agreed on most fronts here. And will say that our mental health facilities didn’t always have sterling reputations when there were more of them. 
 

I think the problem is people press for how do we handle bannon today. And the answer is we don’t have a really viable alternate to pushing him into cement, steel and often harrowing violence. 
 

not knowing the ins and outs of him specifically, I will say there are ways we could tie prison back towards rehabilitation and not just retribution. Not easy, not instantaneous- but I think there are ways to work on culturally shifting the conversation to create a better chance of successful re-entry to society on the backside. Does he have a brain injury that needs treatment? What’s his drug situation? What types of traumas does he need to process. I like to believe you can take someone off the street and take a swing at some of that stuff while they are out of society instead of letting them get further out on the fringes In terribly unhealthy situations.

Edited February 11, 2022 by NoSaint

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

No, it's actually punishment for shooting at people in a car and hitting one, not "revenge".

 

What does shooting at people in a car and hitting one have to do with the current discussion?