So You Think the Bills Get Screwed.....you may be right T Sun article.....

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

How much of lack of holding calls is because of Josh allens mobility and moving out of the pocket? 

That should create more holding calls as he extends the plays and DB's need to hold coverage longer.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

502 pass attempts in 13 games for the season.  So 2 holdings in 502 pass attempts.  No defensive holding in 99.6% of pass attempts. 

 

Even worse, take into account a significant number of 4 and 5 receiver sets and the opportunities to hold multiply out to 2,000+ receiver/defender engagements.  In accounting for coverage opportunities in reality it might be 2 in 2,000+.  Which is even more unbelievable.  Looking at it that way 99.9% of receivers out in the pattern were not held at any time by the defender.  Sounds impossible.

Don't forget to include the sacks in the total count of pass plays. 

[Billsfan1972]

17 minutes ago, OP Blue said:

I didnt say that.  I was referring to one specific play that has everyone convinced of a conspiracy.

Now I see....  Only 13 posts.....  All to say it was the right call?????

 

I didn't (as well as most people) say it was a conspiracy.  It was a lousy non-call on an obvious penalty!!!! 

 

But yes I asked your opinion on the other plays I sited.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Billsfan1972

[Success]

It's pretty sickening.  I don't think it's a "fix," but I think it is subconscious w/ officials.  

 

Maybe if Allen & the Bills start winning SB's, they'll get more favorable treatment.  It would take years before I feel like things are "even."

 

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, OP Blue said:

I didnt say that.  I was referring to one specific play that has everyone convinced of a conspiracy.

this is where the disconnect lies.  You’re insinuating that people think there’s a conspiracy based on one play?  It’s just one of many plays…..yet your focusing on only one…..and saying that that one play is what has us convinced.  Your line of thinking is flawed…..IF the bolded is actually true and not just drivel.  There have been hundreds, if not thousands of plays that have convinced a large contingent of the nfl fan base that there is something seriously flawed with the state of nfls officiating.  
 

people had been saying about the nba for years.  Then Tim Donaghy got caught. The “conspiracy” turned into a reality.   And then there are people that think the NFL is beyond such corruption…..as they lay in bed with the sports books.  Wake up yall.  The world is more corrupt than it is lawful. People are cheating in every aspect of life.  

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Has the league sent their sorry we messed up meaningless letter yet?

 

I am convinced this will continue until ground is broken on a nice new increased  league Revenue generating stadium. 

 

Be hard to generate revenue when fans do not want to put up money anymore on flawed product.

[BassToMouth]

Been saying it for a long time. The team’s they want to win are allowed to mug wide receivers w no flags. Very easy to shut an offense down. Was how Pats always beat colts and how the Bucs went on a run last year and easily beat Green Bay. 
 

whatever team they want to win will get this ability. 
 

but that’s crazy right? Hahaha

[OP Blue]

13 minutes ago, NewEra said:

this is where the disconnect lies.  You’re insinuating that people think there’s a conspiracy based on one play?  It’s just one of many plays…..yet your focusing on only one…..and saying that that one play is what has us convinced.  Your line of thinking is flawed…..IF the bolded is actually true and not just drivel.  There have been hundreds, if not thousands of plays that have convinced a large contingent of the nfl fan base that there is something seriously flawed with the state of nfls officiating.  
 

people had been saying about the nba for years.  Then Tim Donaghy got caught. The “conspiracy” turned into a reality.   And then there are people that think the NFL is beyond such corruption…..as they lay in bed with the sports books.  Wake up yall.  The world is more corrupt than it is lawful. People are cheating in every aspect of life.  

 

Okay, I missed out on this conspiracy.  I will get the foil hat out immediately.

 

[BassToMouth]

3 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Be hard to generate revenue when fans do not want to put up money anymore on flawed product.

Except no one will stop doing that to an extent needed to make an impact. Plus they keep bringing in the fans they want: dumb casuals who like how the NFL is half soap opera half kind of sport and of course pushes bull#### social ‘justice’ lies. They don’t want real football fans, Bc real football fans know what real football is supposed to ***** look like

[Thriftygamer83]

5 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

Interesting article by John Kryk in the Toronto Sun Today with a link...... NFLpenalties.com

 

Title....Bills receivers can't help but feel they have been hosed 

 

When the Buffalo Bills’ star wide receiver, Stefon Diggs, was gooned up the left sideline and into the end zone on Sunday by a Tampa Bay Buccaneers defender, no flag was thrown.

For either defensive holding (illegal restraining of a potential pass catcher before the ball is thrown) or defensive pass interference (for the same offence, post-throw).

That was on a crucial 3rd-and-2 play from the Tampa Bay seven-yard line, with 28 seconds left in regulation, and Buffalo trailing 27-24. The pass fell incomplete.

If a flag had been thrown, Buffalo rightly would have been gifted a first down just a few feet from the Bucs goal line. The Bills could have run down most or all of the remaining time in getting as many as four cracks at a game-winning touchdown from the lip of the cup.

As it was, the Bills kicked a field goal on 4th-and-2, then lost 33-27 in OT.

As egregious as that no-call on the Diggs pass play appeared to be, perhaps no one should be surprised, given the scarcity of defensive holding penalties called against Bills opponents this season.

In fact, the only opposing defender in Buffalo’s 13 games to be flagged for defensive holding is Xavien Howard of the Miami Dolphins, once on each occasion the two teams played, in October and November. That’s over 13 games.

One defender. Twice.

Every other defender? Zip. This, according to a review of Buffalo’s infraction-by-infraction data this season, both for and against, as posted at Nflpenalties.com.

An unintended anomaly? Surely, yeah. Because unlike what the conspiracy promoters in every team’s fan base maintains, the league’s officiating crews actually are not out to get them, Bills included. They just screw up a bunch.

That doesn’t make this no-holds-called trend any more digestible, or less concerning, for the Bills and their fans. Or fair. Because the calls aren’t going both ways: Buffalo defenders have been flagged 14 times so far in 2021 for this particular infraction, including three times just in the

Bills’ crushing overtime loss at Tampa. Two other times the Bills defence vs. the Bucs was flagged for pass interference.

That the Bills were penalized more times for defensive holding against Tom Brady and crew (three) than all opponents in 13 games have against the Bills (two), seems unlikely to reflect on-field reality, in any light. Even if it’s likely just a random, unfortunate occurrence.

At least DPI flags have been dished about equally in Bills games: Eight thrown against Buffalo, nine against Buffalo foes.

That said, the last time an opposing Bills defender was flagged for DPI was in New Orleans on U.S. Thanksgiving Day, nine quarters — and a whole lot of Western New York heartache — ago.

 

 

Galzier's and Kraft's are in the race to see whose got the most mobbed up connections to whichever crime families.  

[BassToMouth]

Just now, OP Blue said:

 

Okay, I missed out on this conspiracy.  I will get the foil hat out immediately.

 

Haha you realize your ‘tin foil hat’ response is programmed into right? You’re literally parroting something w no thought behind it. Same with ‘conspiracy theorist’ and ‘qanoner’ 

 

These terms are created so you don’t have to ever think and respond w substance, you can just spit that out and post a 🤣 like you actually refuted the point made.

 

 

[OP Blue]

1 minute ago, BassToMouth said:

Haha you realize your ‘tin foil hat’ response is programmed into right? You’re literally parroting something w no thought behind it. Same with ‘conspiracy theorist’ and ‘qanoner’ 

 

These terms are created so you don’t have to ever think and respond w substance, you can just spit that out and post a 🤣 like you actually refuted the point made.

 

 

How does one respond with substance to conjecture and conspiracy?  You make fun of it and move on.  When you have some facts, come back and I will review them.

[BassToMouth]

17 minutes ago, NewEra said:

this is where the disconnect lies.  You’re insinuating that people think there’s a conspiracy based on one play?  It’s just one of many plays…..yet your focusing on only one…..and saying that that one play is what has us convinced.  Your line of thinking is flawed…..IF the bolded is actually true and not just drivel.  There have been hundreds, if not thousands of plays that have convinced a large contingent of the nfl fan base that there is something seriously flawed with the state of nfls officiating.  
 

people had been saying about the nba for years.  Then Tim Donaghy got caught. The “conspiracy” turned into a reality.   And then there are people that think the NFL is beyond such corruption…..as they lay in bed with the sports books.  Wake up yall.  The world is more corrupt than it is lawful. People are cheating in every aspect of life.  

I’ve literally posted massive piles of evidence neatly and coherently for these clapping seals to review, and they will still say ***** like this. They’re programmed dimwits. They refuse to accept that what they’re seeing (scripting) is happening. That would open up the scary scary question of if the nfl is scripted wwe bs, then what else in life I think is real is actually scripted?

 

That’s just too scary. The comfort of lies is much more palatable for most people

Just now, OP Blue said:

How does one respond with substance to conjecture and conspiracy?  You make fun of it and move on.  When you have some facts, come back and I will review them.

Haha I’ve posted many times on this. And only a Fraction of the evidence out there. You’re disingenuous like most people. You’ll ignore all that routinely and then post this type of comment. You’re the one living a lie and idolizing grown men you don’t know. 

[Draconator]

5 hours ago, Dan Darragh said:

My computer has this thing called SEARCH.  You should get it if you don't have it.

 

https://torontosun.com/sports/krykslants-just-one-opposing-defender-all-season-has-been-flagged-for-defensive-holding-vs-the-bills

When someone posts something from an article, it's the board rules to post a link to the article. 

[SirusB]

59 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

For McClapper to simply sit on his hands after that screw job on Sunday, is now an indictment of him! 
 

GO BALLISTIC! Take the fine and put the officials on the spot for the future!

 

And get blacklisted by the league?  No coach is going to rock the boat when they're pretty much guaranteed a good paying job in some form in the NFL for the rest of their working life. 

The same goes for owners, they're all making money regardless of their team's success.  Say the wrong thing, and the other owners will find a way to separate you from your team. 

And the players too, they'll just shut up and make their money, then hope to move on to a team that is "allowed" to have more success, or just ride it out all the way to the bank.  Puts the phrase "I want to play for a contender" in a new light.

 

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, BassToMouth said:

I’ve literally posted massive piles of evidence neatly and coherently for these clapping seals to review, and they will still say ***** like this. They’re programmed dimwits. They refuse to accept that what they’re seeing (scripting) is happening. That would open up the scary scary question of if the nfl is scripted wwe bs, then what else in life I think is real is actually scripted?

 

That’s just too scary. The comfort of lies is much more palatable for most people

Haha I’ve posted many times on this. And only a Fraction of the evidence out there. You’re disingenuous like most people. You’ll ignore all that routinely and then post this type of comment. You’re the one living a lie and idolizing grown men you don’t know. 

This actually happened in the NBA….  Let’s not act like there’s no chance there is something shady going on.  

 

the conspirAcy isn’t based on nothing.  It’s based on real life situations that have already happened.  It’s happening in the worlds most popular sport.  It happened in the nba.  I remember watching the blazers vs Lakers, game 7 of the 2000 nba finals.  I was a Laker fan, thinking “can the refs really be THIS bad?  Are they really just making mistakes?  There’s got to be some bs going on.  There’s no way the lakers should’ve won that game…..if not for the refs.”  I was right. We then saw the refs he’ll the lakers win the 2006 nba finals.  Donaghy also said the 2002 kings and 2006 Mavs would’ve been champs if not for officiating.  
 

Now, I’m not saying that this is 💯 the case in the NFL.  I’m saying that there’s chance that there is some shady stuff going on.  There is evidence of wrong doing with these outrageous calls/non calls.  If you want to be so naive to think there is no chance of collusion, wake up.  Or stay asleep and get hit by the reality truck one of these days. The world is full of cheaters. In all aspects of life.  Including sports
 

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

3 hours ago, BBills_88 said:

The NFL is helping the defenses with the Bills offense this year.  

JA Make this happen to a few refs. 
 

 

He'd only need one shot...free vasectomy!!

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 hours ago, Xwnyer said:

I guess the Bills always get perfect games from DBs and LBs of opposing defenses 🤦‍♂️

Yea that’s the big story to me…like how can a team commit so many obvious holds/dpis yet win the penalty battle 5-0 in that category lol even if that late diggs end zone play was a tossup they very much owed it to us for the litany of other jersey pulls the bucs got away with.  Of course it wasn’t a tossup at all mind you 🤣 

[msw2112]

I don't think there is a widespread conspiracy with NFL officiating.  Could there be a bad apple or two on the take, like Tim Donaghy in the NBA?  Sure.

 

I DO think, however, that there is a bias, whether conscious or unconscious, which leads some teams or players to get more favorable calls than others.  If you watch a lot of football, you can clearly see that guys like Brady and teams like the Patriots consistently get the calls.  It could be that guys like Brady and Belichick are all-time greats, which gives them greater influence over the officials (again, could be unconscious).  I can live with bad calls here and there, but when every single controversial call, at the most critical points in the game, go in favor of one team and against the other, it's ridiculous.  The Bills had two critical drives killed by non-calls (potential game winning drive at end of regulation with Diggs in the end zone and Diggs in OT) and the Bucs had one (third down in OT, extending the drive) that clearly influenced the outcome of the game and were called at worst, incorrectly, and at best, inconsistently.

Edited December 14, 2021 by msw2112

[GoBills808]

But it definitely wasn’t cheating when we beat the LA Rams last year on a questionable PI call, that one was legit

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, Success said:

It's pretty sickening.  I don't think it's a "fix," but I think it is subconscious w/ officials.  

 

Maybe if Allen & the Bills start winning SB's, they'll get more favorable treatment.  It would take years before I feel like things are "even."

 

if josh Allen reaches Brady levels of popularity then yea maybe.  I really only see Brady led teams getting lopsided officiating like that.  The refs straight up win them games…this is not the first time this season this has happened for them so it’s certainly not an anti bills thing.  Packers even got hosed against the bucs last year and Aaron rodgers is a big deal lol then we all saw the super bowl where the chiefs were just randomly not allowed to play in the secondary like they had been all season.  I do think the chiefs dbs got away with a lot all year but you’re gonna let it happen all the way up to the superbowl where Tom Brady is on the other sideline huh 😂There’s definitely plenty of awful officiating to go around but usually over the course of a game it evens itself out…like the pats game we got screwed a few times but then we got a pretty soft late hit on josh Allen that I wouldn’t have called.  it is absolutely mindboggling that we had 5 holding/dpi calls and they had 0 against the bucs though with all the obvious cr*p they got away with 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Dr. Who]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

But it definitely wasn’t cheating when we beat the LA Rams last year on a questionable PI call, that one was legit

I don't think anyone is saying we don't ever get a questionable call. Does your example make all the other points go away, because I am skeptical of your skepticism?

[Dukestreetking]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Along with throwing a perfect 40 yard lob to evans along the sideline on 3rd down with a man in his face. 

 

Fair point. Imho, I actually thought TB* was trying to throw OoB w maybe a little 50-50 ball thrown in. 

 

I would guess 80-20 former over the latter.

 

If it was the latter, however, then that was one of the most ridiculously skilled passes I've ever seen. Back foot, clutch, defender-in-his-grill type throws.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Dukestreetking

[GoBills808]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

I don't think anyone is saying we don't ever get a questionable call. Does your example make all the other points go away, because I am skeptical of your skepticism?

All which other points? That an outlier in holding calls is evidence of fraud?

[Dr. Who]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

All which other points? That an outlier in holding calls is evidence of fraud?

That is the extreme conclusion. Most are saying there is a bias, conscious or not, that benefits certain players and teams. The Bills are not one of those teams. It has clearly cost us games.

[P Riv]

Looking at the Diggs no call and the Evans call, the most obvious thing that sticks out to me is whether the DB had his head turned around.  That's MORE obvious than any other issue, which goes a long way to explaining how things unfolded.  

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

That is the extreme conclusion. Most are saying there is a bias, conscious or not, that benefits certain players and teams. The Bills are not one of those teams. It has clearly cost us games.

Let’s be clear: conscious bias would be cheating. Subconscious bias would fall under what I call ‘bad officiating’ which despite the 5 threads about it this week is not a new phenomenon in pro football.

 

If the Bills were 10-3, which they could easily be right now without any change to how the games have been officiated, there would be zero talk of the league screwing us. 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

That should create more holding calls as he extends the plays and DB's need to hold coverage longer.

As the QB leaves the pocket and he may look like he is becoming a runner. As this happens defenses are able to get physical with the receivers 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

With the advent of widespread sports betting on NFL games, we shouldn't be naive enough to believe that this hasn't influenced play or officiating.  High profile teams and high profile games often create a lot of betting volume.  TB and Bills was probably one of those kinds of games.

[Billsfan1972]

And remember how bad KC's defense was early in the season and when the Bills played them and there was all the talk about KC's DBs holding and physicality?  

 

Yep you guessed it the Chiefs had no penalties called against their secondary.😜

[msw2112]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

But it definitely wasn’t cheating when we beat the LA Rams last year on a questionable PI call, that one was legit

 

Who cheated?

 

If I recall correctly, the Bills got a very favorable call during the game winning drive against the Rams last year.  I also recall a terrible call against the Bills TE earlier in the same game.  

 

Sometimes the Bills benefit from bad calls and other times it costs them.  In some games, there are a number of bad calls and some go one team's way and some go the other team's way and they "balance out."  In this past Sunday's games Bills-Bucs game, the balance of the calls, partcularly late in the 4th quarter and in OT, went the Bucs way and had an enormous influence in the outcome of the game.

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

But it definitely wasn’t cheating when we beat the LA Rams last year on a questionable PI call, that one was legit

 

In a game that the Rams got back in to off a bad call that somehow gave a dual-possession catch to the defense.  At least the critical bad calls were split evenly.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Dukestreetking said:

 

Fair point. Imho, I actually thought TB* was trying to throw OoB w maybe a little 50-50 ball thrown in. 

 

I would guess 80-20 former over the latter.

 

If it was the latter, however, then that was one of the most ridiculously skilled passes I've ever seen. Back foot, clutch, defender-in-his-grill type throws.

 

 

Seriously. That pass along with the TD to evans we’re two of the best passes I’ve ever seen. One with extreme touch.  One with lots of mustard.  Both in the perfect spot.  Gotta give credit where credit it due.  He’s unbelievable.  

[Billsfan1972]

Here's a great picture......  No one saw anything.....  The Buc defender has fallen and is dragging Diggs with him.

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Billsfan1972

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

502 pass attempts in 13 games for the season.  So 2 holdings in 502 pass attempts.  No defensive holding in 99.6% of pass attempts. 

 

Even worse, take into account a significant number of 4 and 5 receiver sets and the opportunities to hold multiply out to 2,000+ receiver/defender engagements.  In accounting for coverage opportunities in reality it might be 2 in 2,000+.  Which is even more unbelievable.  Looking at it that way 99.9% of receivers out in the pattern were not held at any time by the defender.  Sounds impossible.

The NFL will determine when we're allowed to win. If Josh's playmaking adds eyeballs and advertising $ to games, we'll start getting the "Jordan rules" love that Brady has enjoyed for 20 years. Once the Brady/ Belichick narrative finally ends, the NFL will have to find new money makers.

[thenorthremembers]

Unless it turns the L into a W it doesnt matter.  Until the NFL eliminates the human aspect of Refs on the field it will never change.  At this point the booth judge should have ultimate authority over all calls.

 

 

[Dr. Who]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Let’s be clear: conscious bias would be cheating. Subconscious bias would fall under what I call ‘bad officiating’ which despite the 5 threads about it this week is not a new phenomenon in pro football.

 

If the Bills were 10-3, which they could easily be right now without any change to how the games have been officiated, there would be zero talk of the league screwing us. 

Yes, if we had overcome wildly bad officiating and won, folks would quickly get over it. It's ridiculous, however, to simply dismiss the attrocious calls made and obvious calls that were not made as special pleading based on nothing much. Your assertions amount to the usual "play well enough to overcome bad referees. If you don't, it's your fault and not the splendid indifference of the NFL to blatantly awful officiating." If it doesn't bother you, that's your perogative. Folks who are upset have a right to be. 

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Yes, if we had overcome wildly bad officiating and won, folks would quickly get over it. It's ridiculous, however, to simply dismiss the attrocious calls made and obvious calls that were not made as special pleading based on nothing much. Your assertions amount to the usual "play well enough to overcome bad referees. If you don't, it's your fault and not the splendid indifference of the NFL to blatantly awful officiating." If it doesn't bother you, that's your perogative. Folks who are upset have a right to be. 

This pretty much sums it up.  
 
To each their own.  If you’re not upset, that’s your right, but I don’t get why people get upset about other getting upset because our team was blatantly screwed by the refs.  Yes, refs make mistakes.  Yes, people get pissed when refs make mistakes that have a part in their team losing.  

[muppy]

6 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

NO SHITE!

 

And why hasn’t he? 
 

I’m not a conspiracy believer, but I am a 100% believer in the theory that star teams and star players almost ALWAYS get that call!

 

If Brady is throwing to Gronk there, he gets that call 1000% of the time! By now, Bills fans have seen 2 decades of the Cheatriots getting late DPI calls, Holding calls and ball spots that aren’t within 3/4 of a yard!

 

THE BILLS DON’T GET THESE EVER WHEN PLAYING THEM! 
 

For McClapper to simply sit on his hands after that screw job on Sunday, is now an indictment of him! 
 

GO BALLISTIC! Take the fine and put the officials on the spot for the future!

i liked what you wrote because Ive been advocating for shakeup, even a tantrum which it reads like you would like to see and I Agree actually..

 

all this even temper around the zebras is definitely on my nerves too because I figure if Im raging at my TV due to them  McD should be raging righteously too. I get it. But McD is a risks vs rewards kind of guy...he's keeping a pretty closed lid to his temper as Leader to show his men to keep their heads in the game, dont bring on any negativity aka fines etc etc tc I dunno Im basically spitballing ideas here......Yeah not like a good tantrum will likely change THAT call but maybe impact a future game. **shrug**....The NFL SHOULD be embarrased after last weeks debacle. If we're lucky we get a few payback calls our way but even that I dont have  confidence will happen.

 

freakin refs are a crapshoot as to what negative impact that individual days crew will have on any game. Its ridiculous

 

/vent

Edited December 14, 2021 by muppy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

 

The T Sun has a paywall so I copied and pasted the complete article.

 

The link I referred to was the nflpenalties.com link

Please don’t.  There’s this thing called ‘copyright law’.  Excerpts only please.