That was a BAD loss

[RyanC883]

Now, this is not a "cancel the season," "Josh sucks," "fire this person or that person" thread.  What this is, is an acknowledgement that the loss last night was bad, and totally unacceptable for a team that is a super bowl contender.  The Bills are now 1-2 against teams with a record of .500 or greater, in large part due to the issues we saw on display last night.  Elite teams win last night.  The Bills, I think, are elite, they should have won.   More details below, in no particular order!.   Ideas on how to fix the below?  Disagree?  Let's discuss.  

 

1.  Offensive Line:  This was an abysmal performance.  F grade.  The poor OL play was the root cause, IMO, of most of this teams issues last night.  We couldn't get Josh the time needed to hit passes against the WORST deep cover team in the NFL--that was also down to a backup CB and 3rd string CB.  Just totally unacceptable.  We need better pass blocking, either from technique or personnel.    The OL also failed to allow JA, a huge QB, the ability to gain ONE YARD twice.  I can't think of another team where this happens.  The Steelers and Pats** during their dominant years routinely made that play.  D's knew it was coming and couldn't stop it.  Oh, and JAs interception was due to a tipped ball, that's also on the OL as well as the RB who failed to bat the ball down and/or just tackle the guy before he could intercept it.  Fix:  I have no idea for this season other than either find someone at the trade deadline; or stop throwing the ball deep, which I hate to say, and go to more intermediate routes and an occasional deep ball.  

 

2.  DL:  Yes, I get Derrick Henry is a beast.  The DL was okay in controlling him for the most part, but it was totally blown open on Henry's long run, and failed to sack the most sacked QB in the league.  We have no dominate pass rusher AT ALL.  We were also down AJ and Basham, both of whom were inactive.  The Titans also lost Lewan during the game and his replacement I think played like under 20 snaps this year.  Still, no sacks.  Grade: F.  Fix: I think an improvement here comes from rotating the DL more often and including AJ and Basham; or finding someone at the trade deadline.  

 

3.  Secondary:  What, really?  Yeah.  They had 2 good WR's against them, but when they had to stop 3rd and longs they seemed to be routinely beat.  This is not something an elite secondary does.  Fix:  I think it's just an off day.  I'm not too concerned here, but it was a subpar performance last night.  

 

4.  Coaching:  This is a mixed bag.  I loved the aggressive going for it on 4th and 1.  As noted above, good/decent OLs provide space for that play.  Our defense was abysmal all night.   The issues I have here are those noted above: (1) why was AJ and Basham inactive; (2) why was Milano in over Klien, who can pressure a QB on 3rd and long and is likely better against Henry; (3) why can't Daboll (I know his Grandfather who raised him died, and I feel awful picking on him, but this was a season long issue here) figure out the red zone offense?   And Frazier is just, really, outmatched again.  At some point you need to mix up what you are doing and send pressure and stop being so freaking predictable.  Finally, the most maddening thing from coaching last night is you have 2-3 all-pro WRs, against a backup and 3rd string cornerback, and you don't attack them all game with passes at all levels of the field.  Stop taking the deep shots against them all the time.  Drive it down 5-15 yards at a time.  Tire them out, esp. with the OL incapable of blocking anyone.  Fix:  McD has changed his style from ultra-conservative to more aggressive, and overall it's worked.  The OC and DC have MAJOR issues they need to work on, and if not fixed, perhaps replacements need to come in during the offseason.  We are wasting elite QB and WR talent here, and the OL, while not great personnel wise, had a total clunker.  

 

5.  Josh:  ha, had to put this in here.  He was good last night.  Not the reason we lost.  Yeah, he missed seeing some open WR's, but he was also trying to avoid getting sacked and taking a negative play.  His one interception was courtesy of the OL letting a DL tip the pass.  Fix:  I guess more awareness to look down the field when running for your life?  Also, don't trust your OL.  I know you love them, but if you have to QB sneak again, do NOT go to the left.  Audible out of it.  

 

6.  RB play.  Are running backs are backup level.  No DC is like, "oh, Singletary and/or Moss, how do we plan to stop them."  Here is how you stop them, catch them from behind if they rip off a 5 yard run.  They also can't catch, and on JA's interception, the RB needed to play CB, heck, tackle the guy before he catches it and take an offensive PI, better than a turnover.  Fix:  trade at trade deadline, use Bredia.  

 

7.  Conclusion:  I keep hearing, "we win this 8 or 9 out of 10 times."  Well, interesting, look at our record v. .500 or better teams this year, and the Titans the last two times.  That argument fails.  These above issues are fixable, but we need to stop playing poorly when it matters.  We get out played and out coached on the coordinator level.  It was simply a BAD loss.  When you have a top QB and WR combos and can't exploit backup CB's, it's terrible.  When you have the most sacked QB in the NFL and don't get a single sack, it's terrible.  When you can't convert 2 4th and 1's, it's terrible.  There are fixes, lets hope they happen. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by RyanC883

[Seoulofstone]

So, what's a good loss?

 

1 They gave up 3 sacks. Our rookie playing only his 2nd start gave up a tough sack to a veteran player. You're spoiled if you think they were abysmal.

 

2 Agree that the DL had a bad day. Agree that one or both of Boogie AJ should have played. I think Jerry H is getting a bit of a free pass for past achievements.

 

3 secondary were excellent. You cross because the ball bounced off a helmet in a fluke or because of AJ Browns short crossers? That's not why they lost. Dont throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

 4 I didn't see the coaching as an issue last night.

 

 5 Hard to blame Josh. His interception was caused by the pressure and Moss didn't react to help out. He scored 3TDs and threw for 350. Limp finish but it was one of those nights.

 

6 These Rbs are not special. They're merely made to look good in a great O. This isn't news to me.

 

7 That's an idiotic thing that fans say when they are buthurt at a loss. No basis in fact but you can read it on most fan forums  Lame. Take the loss it's only a game. Titans played better. Good for them.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Seoulofstone

[What a Tuel]

Ugh come on. The lousy X record vs .500 teams thing already? You can't beat .500 or better teams if you don't play them but even so at 1-2 against them, are we really saying this team doesn't compete with the Titans or the Steelers? Give me a break.

 

This wasn't a bad loss, it was a tough loss. A bad loss was last year against the Titans.

[Greg S]

Most of the "fixes" you are talking about will have to wait until April to fix. 

[RyanC883]

3 minutes ago, Seoulofstone said:

So, what's a good loss?

 

there is no good loss, but I'm sick of hearing on this board that, "that was just a tough loss," or "we beat them 8 or 9 out of ten times."  Really, we are 0-2 against them the last two years, and our issues (OL, Red Zone offense) keep appearing.  

1 minute ago, Greg S said:

Most of the "fixes" you are talking about will have to wait until April to fix. 

 

some will, but some are due to playcalling (more intermediate routes as this OL can't hold a pass block), or perhaps there is a trade, or personnel move to be made on the roster (playing AJ, Basham, Klien more, etc).  There is stuff we can do before April.  

[Blazman11]

We have the same record at the same point in time as we did last year. Last year our two losses at this point where significantly worse. It’ll be fine. The other team gets paid too. Titans were the better team yesterday.   Barely but they were. 

[GunnerBill]

So not fire everyone.... just the coordinators who came into the game leading the #1 offense and defense in the league?

 

Got it.

[LABILLBACKER]

I'm going to lump the OL/RB issue together. We've known about this problem since early last year. We rely on Josh's athleticism to be our only RB. Stop playing Addison and Hughes who are clearly old and slow, and get your young draft picks in there. If we play Tennessee 10 times they probably beat us 6-7 times.

[JGMcD2]

What were people saying last year when we beat a bunch of teams above .500? Pretty sure we had the best record against teams .500 or better? The same crap.

 

The teams needed to tighten things up… they gave up some opportunities… they’re capable of beating good teams and have crushed bad teams. They did the same thing last year. They got over their boogeyman in the Chiefs and lost a heartbreaker on the road against a good team. 
 

The Titans needed everything to break right for them last night and it did. 76 TD run (that didn’t get called back for a hold), Circus Julio Jones catch (yeah I know it was PI), tipped pick. We gave them some opportunities and they took advantage. It happens. 

Also, you’re misdefining pressure… the Bills had one of the highest pressure rates and have been consistently pressuring opposing QBs all year… it’s just a matter of whether they get a sack or not. You’re conflating the word sack and pressure. And don’t you think getting the ball out quick, an active AJ Brown and Julio Jones and the extra focus on Derrick Henry makes it a little more difficult to sack Tannehill? 
 

 

[Jerome007]

If they learn from adjusting against playaction, just like they did not letting the OL hang out to dry like in game 1, that'd be great. And while Henry did not make any significant runs while he was doing a screen instead of running between the tackles, he was a threat and hopefully that gives Daboll the idea to do it more with Singletarry and Moss! They can be good in open space, and no often holes between the tackles for them...

 

 

[JGMcD2]

14 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

The OC and DC have MAJOR issues they need to work on, and if not fixed, perhaps replacements need to come in during the offseason.  We are wasting elite QB and WR talent here, and the OL, while not great personnel wise, had a total clunker.

Lol.

 

Wasting elite QB and WR talent with the #1 or #2 rated offense last year and they’re what #1 or #2 this year? 

 

Great point. 
 

And you’re right on this… we might have to replace them after they go on to get head coaching jobs! 
 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by JGMcD2

[Greg S]

No matter how the season plays out I hope Beane focuses on the OL in the upcoming draft. Its been an area of concern for a while now. Imagine how it would look if Josh wasn't a QB who could avoid the rush.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Greg S

[Big Turk]

Let's revisit this at the end of the year, shall we. Amazing for the two "bad performances" they led most of the time and probably should have won both games.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Look at what the bills all times playoff record is at home vs away. Playing these post season games at home is very important for us. That loss last night is not good. If we have to travel in the playoffs…I don’t want to say when the last time we won a roar playoff game was

[RyanC883]

3 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Lol.

 

Wasting elite QB and WR talent with the #1 or #2 rated offense last year and they’re what #1 or #2 this year? 

 

Great point. 
 

And you’re right on this… we might have to replace them after they go on to get head coaching jobs! 
 

 

 

Great insight and comments about the game last night.  We put up tons of points and really hammered some crappy teams (except KC, which looks like an outlier at this point).  How did we attack the KC CBs last night?  We didn't in any strategic manner.  And did we sack the most sacked QB in the NFL, noppppppe.  We let a bad offense put up points on us, and let a ravaged D stop us 2X on 4th and 1.  

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

Let's revisit this at the end of the year, shall we. Amazing for the two "bad performances" they led most of the time and probably should have won both games.

I took everything to break right for Pittsburgh and Tennessee to beat us. 
 

We brought our B game against both teams and it STILL took them getting 1-2 big breaks to beat us. 
 

The world is not ending. 

[Ramza86]

Allen has a decent oline. Hes never played with a good one. 

 

Whenever the line looks bad its because they are playing against a capable defense knowing how to get pressure or with have a talented pass rusher. 

 

Because i have always thought this line needed some real talent, I cannot agree that our RBs are backup level. Najee Harris looks terrible behind that Steeler line. It aint Harris thats the issue. Give those two some maulers and they will do great.

 

I thought the biggest issue with last nights game was how comfortable Tannehill was. Was he even sacked that game? If we got half the pressures the Titans had on us we win easily.

[Bob in STL]

Bad loss?  The red zone failures came back to haunt but still it was a 3 point road loss on MNF.  

 

We traded blow for blow with them.  We were inches from victory.  We just missed on a few plays that were there.  

 

We were not going to be undefeated and now is NOT the best time to peak.  We will be fine.  Trust the process. 

[RyanC883]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Let's revisit this at the end of the year, shall we. Amazing for the two "bad performances" they led most of the time and probably should have won both games.

 

we should have won both games, we didn't.  Elite teams win those games.  There are some systemic issues I'm seeing.  That's what I'm pointing out.  Any thoughts on how to fix the following: (1) OL blocking; (2) shotty red zone play?  (3) bad DL play.  I'm not saying I have the answers, but against two really bad OLs (PGH and Tenn) we disappeared.  

 

 

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Great insight and comments about the game last night.  We put up tons of points and really hammered some crappy teams (except KC, which looks like an outlier at this point).  How did we attack the KC CBs last night?  We didn't in any strategic manner.  And did we sack the most sacked QB in the NFL, noppppppe.  We let a bad offense put up points on us, and let a ravaged D stop us 2X on 4th and 1.  

We beat a bunch of teams over .500 last year and the complaint was we don’t beat crappy teams by enough. We’re 1-2 against .500 teams and crushing crappy teams and now the issue is we’re not beating good teams enough. 
 

It took everything to go right for Tennessee to beat us. Same thing with Pittsburgh. We’ve played 6 games for heaven sake. 
 

You were talking about pressure and not sacks… two totally different things. Stop conflating them. Separate the two and discuss them properly. 
 

And of course we didn’t attack the KC CBs last night in any strategic manner… we played Tennessee. 

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said:

I took everything to break right for Pittsburgh and Tennessee to beat us. 
 

We brought our B game against both teams and it STILL took them getting 1-2 big breaks to beat us. 
 

The world is not ending. 

 

the issue is why does the B game show up in those games?  It can't.  And where did my OP say the world is ending.  It didn't.   Everything "breaking right' is simply code for getting outplayed.  We got outplayed in both games, we lost matchups we can't lose.  That's what this post is about, and how to fix those issues going forward.  If you want to say "all is good," okay, but if we don't fix those issues, no SB.  

[JMF2006]

Come On Man

 

Everyone gets on coaches case for not being aggressive enough.

 

Have you looked at the schedule? 

 

The Bills don't play another contending team until the Bucs and they are in the wrong conference.

 

They (Titans)played tough at home and if they played that way every week they would be 6-0...... but they are not.

 

This is an easy loss to take for me.

 

Losing to the Chefs would have hurt a lot more.

[JGMcD2]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

the issue is why does the B game show up in those games?  It can't.  And where did my OP say the world is ending.  It didn't.   Everything "breaking right' is simply code for getting outplayed.  We got outplayed in both games, we lost matchups we can't lose.  That's what this post is about, and how to fix those issues going forward.  If you want to say "all is good," okay, but if we don't fix those issues, no SB.  

The A team just showed up last week? 

 

We didn’t get outplayed… we actually statistically dominated both games and made multiple mistakes (blocked punt or poor execution on 4th and 1) that ended up costing us. I’d rather it happen in October than in January. 
 

Tennessee played their best game of the year… that’s what it took to beat us. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by JGMcD2

[Seoulofstone]

12 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

there is no good loss, but I'm sick of hearing on this board that, "that was just a tough loss," or "we beat them 8 or 9 out of ten times."  Really, we are 0-2 against them the last two years, and our issues (OL, Red Zone offense) keep appearing.  

 

I agree about the excuses.

 

However the last 3 times we have played the Titans and Chiefs they have ALL been away games. Wouldn't it be nice to occasionally not have to travel to our biggest rivals? 

 

As for the OL they have been excellent this season as a whole surrendering only 8 sacks. Red zone has seen regression from last year when we were the best. Predictable. They are hardly the worst and will get better.

 

  Overall they deserved to lose this game and I'm ok with it. I still think they will win a Superbowl this season.

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

we should have won both games, we didn't.  Elite teams win those games.  There are some systemic issues I'm seeing.  That's what I'm pointing out.  Any thoughts on how to fix the following: (1) OL blocking; (2) shotty red zone play?  (3) bad DL play.  I'm not saying I have the answers, but against two really bad OLs (PGH and Tenn) we disappeared.  

 

 

 

Blocked punt was the difference in the Steelers game and 2 TDs called back by penalities was the difference last night. 

 

OLine needs a little time to gel since they changed it up and never played together with the group prior to week 3. Might be an issue or might really not be. We will find out as the year goes on.

They were mostly excellent last year, I think they will figure it out.

 

Red zone play will probably be a combo of them making some adjustments to play calls and just executing better.

 

DLine has mostly been good this year. I can't really crack on them for a bad game, the D as a whole didn't play well last night after the first few series.

 

Mostly what I am saying is good teams usually figure these things out as the year goes on and make adjustments as needed. 

 

The goal is to play your best toward the end of the year not peak in week 6. I am confident they will be just fine.

 

 

[First Round Bust]

yeah certain losses sting more than others, the un-even road we ride as Bills fans is paved with them...

 

two TDs called back due to penalties - ST and the O

being outscored 10-0 in the 4th quarter despite moving the ball very well....several red zone visits where we come away with FGs not TDs.

giving up that big run got into the heads of our D and we over-staffed the box and they threw into that open space in the middle behind our late arriving coverages and Tenn went with it and won with it.

the up and down OL having a down game - not creating the run and protecting Josh as well - we've seen this movie before.

No stops by the D in the second-half..none...

 

we got out-executed, but....were within inches of a win despite all the above...i

 

 

 

 

[RyanC883]

Just now, JGMcD2 said:

We beat a bunch of teams over .500 last year and the complaint was we don’t beat crappy teams by enough. We’re 1-2 against .500 teams and crushing crappy teams and now the issue is we’re not beating good teams enough. 
 

It took everything to go right for Tennessee to beat us. Same thing with Pittsburgh. We’ve played 6 games for heaven sake. 
 

You were talking about pressure and not sacks… two totally different things. Stop conflating them. Separate the two and discuss them properly. 
 

And of course we didn’t attack the KC CBs last night in any strategic manner… we played Tennessee. 

 

Thanks for playing grammar police re: KC v. Tenn CB's, and offering no actual insight.  It seems you are happy with mediocre play.  Please show me where I'm conflating pressures and sacks?  You are totally inventing that.  Tanny is the most sacked QB in the NFL.  We go ZERO sacks. 

 

  

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Blocked punt was the difference in the Steelers game and 2 TDs called back by penalities was the difference last night. 

 

OLine needs a little time to gel since they changed it up and never played together with the group prior to week 3. Might be an issue or might really not be. We will find out as the year goes on.

They were mostly excellent last year, I think they will figure it out.

 

Red zone play will probably be a combo of them making some adjustments to play calls and just executing better.

 

DLine has mostly been good this year. I can't really crack on them for a bad game, the D as a whole didn't play well last night after the first few series.

 

Mostly what I am saying is good teams usually figure these things out as the year goes on and make adjustments as needed. 

 

The goal is to play your best toward the end of the year not peak in week 6. I am confident they will be just fine.

 

 

 

appreciate the insights.  do you know the answer to this: The DL has been mostly okay-good this year, but why was AJ and Basham out.  They both appeared to play well last week, and the rotation seemed to be a reason for our DL play?  I haven't found the answer anywhere. 

[Cray51]

To me this was similar to KC losing over the past two years.  When you are at the top everyone comes for you.  The Bills lost by three points, and they chose to go for the win at the opponents 2 yard line at the end of the game.  We took a risk that didnt pay off.  That's certainly different than the other team crushing us for 60 minutes.

 

Look at what it took for Tennessee to beat us.  76 yd TD run, an insane catch off of a helmet, an interception that was returned to the 15, and US not converting a 4th down at their two.  We missed an opportunity, but we do beat that team 9-10 times.  Not to mention we seem to always play them in their barn.  Let's have the Titans come to Buffalo in January and see how that fairs...

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Thanks for playing grammar police re: KC v. Tenn CB's, and offering no actual insight.  It seems you are happy with mediocre play.  Please show me where I'm conflating pressures and sacks?  You are totally inventing that.  Tanny is the most sacked QB in the NFL.  We go ZERO sacks. 

 

  

 

appreciate the insights.  do you know the answer to this: The DL has been mostly okay-good this year, but why was AJ and Basham out.  They both appeared to play well last week, and the rotation seemed to be a reason for our DL play?  I haven't found the answer anywhere. 

 

I believe McD said he wanted a little bit bigger bodies in there to stop the run and it was a matchup thing.

[RyanC883]

7 minutes ago, Seoulofstone said:

I agree about the excuses.

 

However the last 3 times we have played the Titans and Chiefs they have ALL been away games. Wouldn't it be nice to occasionally not have to travel to our biggest rivals? 

 

As for the OL they have been excellent this season as a whole surrendering only 8 sacks. Red zone has seen regression from last year when we were the best. Predictable. They are hardly the worst and will get better.

 

  Overall they deserved to lose this game and I'm ok with it. I still think they will win a Superbowl this season.

 

thanks for the insight and analysis.  appreciate it.  I think we def can win the SB.  I think the OL sack stats are good because of JA.  Put another guy back there and it's totally different, IMO.  Agree on the home and away games.  Why are the toughest games ALL away this year.  

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Cray51 said:

To me this was similar to KC losing over the past two years.  When you are at the top everyone comes for you.  The Bills lost by three points, and they chose to go for the win at the opponents 2 yard line at the end of the game.  We took a risk that didnt pay off.  That's certainly different than the other team crushing us for 60 minutes.

 

Look at what it took for Tennessee to beat us.  76 yd TD run, an insane catch off of a helmet, an interception that was returned to the 15, and US not converting a 4th down at their two.  We missed an opportunity, but we do beat that team 9-10 times.  Not to mention we seem to always play them in their barn.  Let's have the Titans come to Buffalo in January and see how that fairs...

 

And don't forget 2 TDs called back by penalties

[buffblue]

33 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

Now, this is not a "cancel the season," "Josh sucks," "fire this person or that person" thread.  What this is, is an acknowledgement that the loss last night was bad, and totally unacceptable for a team that is a super bowl contender.  The Bills are now 1-2 against teams with a record of .500 or greater, in large part due to the issues we saw on display last night.  Elite teams win last night.  The Bills, I think, are elite, they should have won.   More details below, in no particular order!.   Ideas on how to fix the below?  Disagree?  Let's discuss.  

 

1.  Offensive Line:  This was an abysmal performance.  F grade.  The poor OL play was the root cause, IMO, of most of this teams issues last night.  We couldn't get Josh the time needed to hit passes against the WORST deep cover team in the NFL--that was also down to a backup CB and 3rd string CB.  Just totally unacceptable.  We need better pass blocking, either from technique or personnel.    The OL also failed to allow JA, a huge QB, the ability to gain ONE YARD twice.  I can't think of another team where this happens.  The Steelers and Pats** during their dominant years routinely made that play.  D's knew it was coming and couldn't stop it.  Oh, and JAs interception was due to a tipped ball, that's also on the OL as well as the RB who failed to bat the ball down and/or just tackle the guy before he could intercept it.  Fix:  I have no idea for this season other than either find someone at the trade deadline; or stop throwing the ball deep, which I hate to say, and go to more intermediate routes and an occasional deep ball.  

 

2.  DL:  Yes, I get Derrick Henry is a beast.  The DL was okay in controlling him for the most part, but it was totally blown open on Henry's long run, and failed to sack the most sacked QB in the league.  We have no dominate pass rusher AT ALL.  We were also down AJ and Basham, both of whom were inactive.  The Titans also lost Lewan during the game and his replacement I think played like under 20 snaps this year.  Still, no pressure.  Grade: F.  Fix: I think an improvement here comes from rotating the DL more often and including AJ and Basham; or finding someone at the trade deadline.  

 

3.  Secondary:  What, really?  Yeah.  They had 2 good WR's against them, but when they had to stop 3rd and longs they seemed to be routinely beat.  This is not something an elite secondary does.  Fix:  I think it's just an off day.  I'm not too concerned here, but it was a subpar performance last night.  

 

4.  Coaching:  This is a mixed bag.  I loved the aggressive going for it on 4th and 1.  As noted above, good/decent OLs provide space for that play.  Our defense was abysmal all night.   The issues I have here are those noted above: (1) why was AJ and Basham inactive; (2) why was Milano in over Klien, who can pressure a QB on 3rd and long and is likely better against Henry; (3) why can't Daboll (I know his Grandfather who raised him died, and I feel awful picking on him, but this was a season long issue here) figure out the red zone offense?   And Frazier is just, really, outmatched again.  At some point you need to mix up what you are doing and send pressure and stop being so freaking predictable.  Finally, the most maddening thing from coaching last night is you have 2-3 all-pro WRs, against a backup and 3rd string cornerback, and you don't attack them all game with passes at all levels of the field.  Stop taking the deep shots against them all the time.  Drive it down 5-15 yards at a time.  Tire them out, esp. with the OL incapable of blocking anyone.  Fix:  McD has changed his style from ultra-conservative to more aggressive, and overall it's worked.  The OC and DC have MAJOR issues they need to work on, and if not fixed, perhaps replacements need to come in during the offseason.  We are wasting elite QB and WR talent here, and the OL, while not great personnel wise, had a total clunker.  

 

5.  Josh:  ha, had to put this in here.  He was good last night.  Not the reason we lost.  Yeah, he missed seeing some open WR's, but he was also trying to avoid getting sacked and taking a negative play.  His one interception was courtesy of the OL letting a DL tip the pass.  Fix:  I guess more awareness to look down the field when running for your life?  Also, don't trust your OL.  I know you love them, but if you have to QB sneak again, do NOT go to the left.  Audible out of it.  

 

6.  RB play.  Are running backs are backup level.  No DC is like, "oh, Singletary and/or Moss, how do we plan to stop them."  Here is how you stop them, catch them from behind if they rip off a 5 yard run.  They also can't catch, and on JA's interception, the RB needed to play CB, heck, tackle the guy before he catches it and take an offensive PI, better than a turnover.  Fix:  trade at trade deadline, use Bredia.  

 

7.  Conclusion:  I keep hearing, "we win this 8 or 9 out of 10 times."  Well, interesting, look at our record v. .500 or better teams this year, and the Titans the last two times.  That argument fails.  These above issues are fixable, but we need to stop playing poorly when it matters.  We get out played and out coached on the coordinator level.  It was simply a BAD loss.  When you have a top QB and WR combos and can't exploit backup CB's, it's terrible.  When you have the most sacked QB in the NFL and don't get a single sack, it's terrible.  When you can't convert 2 4th and 1's, it's terrible.  There are fixes, lets hope they happen. 

 

 

 

 

The two biggest issues are #1 and #3. Our pass protection was abysmal for most of the night against an inferior defense, and Levi as CB2 again stuck out like a sore thumb.

 

I don't think Tre gave up a single completion last night but we need to upgrade the spot opposite him. 

 

 

32 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

Now, this is not a "cancel the season," "Josh sucks," "fire this person or that person" thread.  What this is, is an acknowledgement that the loss last night was bad, and totally unacceptable for a team that is a super bowl contender.  The Bills are now 1-2 against teams with a record of .500 or greater, in large part due to the issues we saw on display last night.  Elite teams win last night.  The Bills, I think, are elite, they should have won.   More details below, in no particular order!.   Ideas on how to fix the below?  Disagree?  Let's discuss.  

 

1.  Offensive Line:  This was an abysmal performance.  F grade.  The poor OL play was the root cause, IMO, of most of this teams issues last night.  We couldn't get Josh the time needed to hit passes against the WORST deep cover team in the NFL--that was also down to a backup CB and 3rd string CB.  Just totally unacceptable.  We need better pass blocking, either from technique or personnel.    The OL also failed to allow JA, a huge QB, the ability to gain ONE YARD twice.  I can't think of another team where this happens.  The Steelers and Pats** during their dominant years routinely made that play.  D's knew it was coming and couldn't stop it.  Oh, and JAs interception was due to a tipped ball, that's also on the OL as well as the RB who failed to bat the ball down and/or just tackle the guy before he could intercept it.  Fix:  I have no idea for this season other than either find someone at the trade deadline; or stop throwing the ball deep, which I hate to say, and go to more intermediate routes and an occasional deep ball.  

 

2.  DL:  Yes, I get Derrick Henry is a beast.  The DL was okay in controlling him for the most part, but it was totally blown open on Henry's long run, and failed to sack the most sacked QB in the league.  We have no dominate pass rusher AT ALL.  We were also down AJ and Basham, both of whom were inactive.  The Titans also lost Lewan during the game and his replacement I think played like under 20 snaps this year.  Still, no pressure.  Grade: F.  Fix: I think an improvement here comes from rotating the DL more often and including AJ and Basham; or finding someone at the trade deadline.  

 

3.  Secondary:  What, really?  Yeah.  They had 2 good WR's against them, but when they had to stop 3rd and longs they seemed to be routinely beat.  This is not something an elite secondary does.  Fix:  I think it's just an off day.  I'm not too concerned here, but it was a subpar performance last night.  

 

4.  Coaching:  This is a mixed bag.  I loved the aggressive going for it on 4th and 1.  As noted above, good/decent OLs provide space for that play.  Our defense was abysmal all night.   The issues I have here are those noted above: (1) why was AJ and Basham inactive; (2) why was Milano in over Klien, who can pressure a QB on 3rd and long and is likely better against Henry; (3) why can't Daboll (I know his Grandfather who raised him died, and I feel awful picking on him, but this was a season long issue here) figure out the red zone offense?   And Frazier is just, really, outmatched again.  At some point you need to mix up what you are doing and send pressure and stop being so freaking predictable.  Finally, the most maddening thing from coaching last night is you have 2-3 all-pro WRs, against a backup and 3rd string cornerback, and you don't attack them all game with passes at all levels of the field.  Stop taking the deep shots against them all the time.  Drive it down 5-15 yards at a time.  Tire them out, esp. with the OL incapable of blocking anyone.  Fix:  McD has changed his style from ultra-conservative to more aggressive, and overall it's worked.  The OC and DC have MAJOR issues they need to work on, and if not fixed, perhaps replacements need to come in during the offseason.  We are wasting elite QB and WR talent here, and the OL, while not great personnel wise, had a total clunker.  

 

5.  Josh:  ha, had to put this in here.  He was good last night.  Not the reason we lost.  Yeah, he missed seeing some open WR's, but he was also trying to avoid getting sacked and taking a negative play.  His one interception was courtesy of the OL letting a DL tip the pass.  Fix:  I guess more awareness to look down the field when running for your life?  Also, don't trust your OL.  I know you love them, but if you have to QB sneak again, do NOT go to the left.  Audible out of it.  

 

6.  RB play.  Are running backs are backup level.  No DC is like, "oh, Singletary and/or Moss, how do we plan to stop them."  Here is how you stop them, catch them from behind if they rip off a 5 yard run.  They also can't catch, and on JA's interception, the RB needed to play CB, heck, tackle the guy before he catches it and take an offensive PI, better than a turnover.  Fix:  trade at trade deadline, use Bredia.  

 

7.  Conclusion:  I keep hearing, "we win this 8 or 9 out of 10 times."  Well, interesting, look at our record v. .500 or better teams this year, and the Titans the last two times.  That argument fails.  These above issues are fixable, but we need to stop playing poorly when it matters.  We get out played and out coached on the coordinator level.  It was simply a BAD loss.  When you have a top QB and WR combos and can't exploit backup CB's, it's terrible.  When you have the most sacked QB in the NFL and don't get a single sack, it's terrible.  When you can't convert 2 4th and 1's, it's terrible.  There are fixes, lets hope they happen. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Greg S]

14 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Look at what the bills all times playoff record is at home vs away. Playing these post season games at home is very important for us. That loss last night is not good. If we have to travel in the playoffs…I don’t want to say when the last time we won a roar playoff game was

 

They are going to win the East so they will have at least home playoff game. Does that happen on WC weekend or the divisional round is the question. I definitely want the Bills to avoid going to Baltimore. Playing at the Chargers or Titans is not that big of a deal since the Bills fans will represent very well there. But if they have to play the Ravens I want that one in OP.

[st pete gogolak]

Overreact much?  An "F" for the OL on a night when the offense scored 31 and a FG or TD at the end pushes it to 34 or 38?  Spencer Brown had an off game.  I really believe in another year or two he will be an All-Pro but he's a rookie and rookies will have off nights.  One sack was due to a miscommunication along the line and Dawkins got blown up on the sneak.  Not much push on a lot of running plays.  If you want to give them a grade, give them a "C". 

 

The loss was due to lousy play from the D, especially up front.  I was expecting constant pressure and it just wasn't there.  Bit on play-action the whole second half.

[What a Tuel]

13 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

We beat a bunch of teams over .500 last year and the complaint was we don’t beat crappy teams by enough. We’re 1-2 against .500 teams and crushing crappy teams and now the issue is we’re not beating good teams enough. 
 

It took everything to go right for Tennessee to beat us. Same thing with Pittsburgh. We’ve played 6 games for heaven sake. 
 

You were talking about pressure and not sacks… two totally different things. Stop conflating them. Separate the two and discuss them properly. 
 

And of course we didn’t attack the KC CBs last night in any strategic manner… we played Tennessee. 

 

Not to mention the quirky thing about .500 at this point in the season, is if we beat the steelers, they are 2-4 and under .500 so no longer count as a good win? Then its only 1-1 against .500 or better teams. Fun.

[JohnNord]

38 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

Now, this is not a "cancel the season," "Josh sucks," "fire this person or that person" thread.  What this is, is an acknowledgement that the loss last night was bad, and totally unacceptable for a team that is a super bowl contender.  The Bills are now 1-2 against teams with a record of .500 or greater, in large part due to the issues we saw on display last night.  Elite teams win last night.  The Bills, I think, are elite, they should have won.   More details below, in no particular order!.   Ideas on how to fix the below?  Disagree?  Let's discuss.  

 

1.  Offensive Line:  This was an abysmal performance.  F grade.  The poor OL play was the root cause, IMO, of most of this teams issues last night.  We couldn't get Josh the time needed to hit passes against the WORST deep cover team in the NFL--that was also down to a backup CB and 3rd string CB.  Just totally unacceptable.  We need better pass blocking, either from technique or personnel.    The OL also failed to allow JA, a huge QB, the ability to gain ONE YARD twice.  I can't think of another team where this happens.  The Steelers and Pats** during their dominant years routinely made that play.  D's knew it was coming and couldn't stop it.  Oh, and JAs interception was due to a tipped ball, that's also on the OL as well as the RB who failed to bat the ball down and/or just tackle the guy before he could intercept it.  Fix:  I have no idea for this season other than either find someone at the trade deadline; or stop throwing the ball deep, which I hate to say, and go to more intermediate routes and an occasional deep ball.  

 

2.  DL:  Yes, I get Derrick Henry is a beast.  The DL was okay in controlling him for the most part, but it was totally blown open on Henry's long run, and failed to sack the most sacked QB in the league.  We have no dominate pass rusher AT ALL.  We were also down AJ and Basham, both of whom were inactive.  The Titans also lost Lewan during the game and his replacement I think played like under 20 snaps this year.  Still, no pressure.  Grade: F.  Fix: I think an improvement here comes from rotating the DL more often and including AJ and Basham; or finding someone at the trade deadline.  

 

3.  Secondary:  What, really?  Yeah.  They had 2 good WR's against them, but when they had to stop 3rd and longs they seemed to be routinely beat.  This is not something an elite secondary does.  Fix:  I think it's just an off day.  I'm not too concerned here, but it was a subpar performance last night.  

 

4.  Coaching:  This is a mixed bag.  I loved the aggressive going for it on 4th and 1.  As noted above, good/decent OLs provide space for that play.  Our defense was abysmal all night.   The issues I have here are those noted above: (1) why was AJ and Basham inactive; (2) why was Milano in over Klien, who can pressure a QB on 3rd and long and is likely better against Henry; (3) why can't Daboll (I know his Grandfather who raised him died, and I feel awful picking on him, but this was a season long issue here) figure out the red zone offense?   And Frazier is just, really, outmatched again.  At some point you need to mix up what you are doing and send pressure and stop being so freaking predictable.  Finally, the most maddening thing from coaching last night is you have 2-3 all-pro WRs, against a backup and 3rd string cornerback, and you don't attack them all game with passes at all levels of the field.  Stop taking the deep shots against them all the time.  Drive it down 5-15 yards at a time.  Tire them out, esp. with the OL incapable of blocking anyone.  Fix:  McD has changed his style from ultra-conservative to more aggressive, and overall it's worked.  The OC and DC have MAJOR issues they need to work on, and if not fixed, perhaps replacements need to come in during the offseason.  We are wasting elite QB and WR talent here, and the OL, while not great personnel wise, had a total clunker.  

 

5.  Josh:  ha, had to put this in here.  He was good last night.  Not the reason we lost.  Yeah, he missed seeing some open WR's, but he was also trying to avoid getting sacked and taking a negative play.  His one interception was courtesy of the OL letting a DL tip the pass.  Fix:  I guess more awareness to look down the field when running for your life?  Also, don't trust your OL.  I know you love them, but if you have to QB sneak again, do NOT go to the left.  Audible out of it.  

 

6.  RB play.  Are running backs are backup level.  No DC is like, "oh, Singletary and/or Moss, how do we plan to stop them."  Here is how you stop them, catch them from behind if they rip off a 5 yard run.  They also can't catch, and on JA's interception, the RB needed to play CB, heck, tackle the guy before he catches it and take an offensive PI, better than a turnover.  Fix:  trade at trade deadline, use Bredia.  

 

7.  Conclusion:  I keep hearing, "we win this 8 or 9 out of 10 times."  Well, interesting, look at our record v. .500 or better teams this year, and the Titans the last two times.  That argument fails.  These above issues are fixable, but we need to stop playing poorly when it matters.  We get out played and out coached on the coordinator level.  It was simply a BAD loss.  When you have a top QB and WR combos and can't exploit backup CB's, it's terrible.  When you have the most sacked QB in the NFL and don't get a single sack, it's terrible.  When you can't convert 2 4th and 1's, it's terrible.  There are fixes, lets hope they happen. 

 

 

 

 

This is elite level TSW overreaction 

[JGMcD2]

3 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

Thanks for playing grammar police re: KC v. Tenn CB's, and offering no actual insight.  It seems you are happy with mediocre play.  Please show me where I'm conflating pressures and sacks?  You are totally inventing that.  Tanny is the most sacked QB in the NFL.  We go ZERO sacks.

 

If 31 points on offense is mediocre I’m all for it. 

 

You’re talking about getting “no pressure on Tannehill” in your OP and now you’re talking about how we “didn’t sack Tannehill” which one is it? Pressure doesn’t have to be a sack. 

 

The defense played poorly last night… they’ve played at a high leve all year. They’ve mixed and matched defense strategies and had a lot of success doing different things to teams. They just stumped one of the most dominant teams over the last 3 years and held them to their worst performance outside of the Super Bowl. 

[RyanC883]

Just now, JohnNord said:

This is elite level TSW overreaction 

 

please explain how?  otherwise, your just trolling

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Despite the piss-poor play in the trenches, and lack of red zone execution.  The part the bothered me the most was the inability to get Tennessee off the dang field and continuously hitting Brown on seemingly the same play.  It's like we didn't learn from last year and that's exactly how they got us then - sell out on the run, drop it right over the LBs in the middle.  FRUSTRATING.  Get maybe two stops out of those possessions, and we probably at least score on one of those opportunities.   

[Dr. Who]

15 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Bad loss?  The red zone failures came back to haunt but still it was a 3 point road loss on MNF.  

 

We traded blow for blow with them.  We were inches from victory.  We just missed on a few plays that were there.  

 

We were not going to be undefeated and now is NOT the best time to peak.  We will be fine.  Trust the process. 

I'm wondering why we had back-to-back away games against the Titans. Don't they usually rotate these things? Regardless, Vrabel is good at game planning these ugly wins for his team. I'm most disappointed there was no pressure on Tannehill. We loaded up to stop the run, but probably should have kept at least one of Epenesa or Basham active.