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Question: what is a pick? Also Cover1 all-22 review of Bills D


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So good breakdown, Cover1 gets a little fanboy about the Bills D but overall shows how Frazier crafted a solid gameplan and the players did a great job of communicating and sharing responsibilities to minimize the grey areas between zones that Mahomes exploited so well in the AFCCG.  Belt and suspenders belt and suspenders, backing each other up on almost every play all evening long.

 

To me, brings up a question though: what is a pick play?  If you go to about 18:30, clearest example of a play KC runs at least 3x.

 

White is covering Hill (actually on this play, it's #17 Blake Bell), who is off the LOS to the bottom of the screen.  Kelce is inside.  On the snap, Kelce slows his release so that his big ass is right in Whites way as he tries to follow his guy on a shallow crosser.

 

I'm not sure I understand how a pick play is defined.  Isn't that a pick?  Cover1 doesn't say anything about it.

 

Effectively, it seems like a pick in that in having to avoid Kelce's big ass, White is separated from the guy he's covering.  The first time the Chiefs did it, it worked for a first down and more.  The second time the Bills had Hyde drop in to help and he was in perfect position to make the tackle short of the sticks - as it happened, Hill deflected the pass and Hyde picked it for a TD so HA serves you right.

 

 

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I have no idea what a pick is in this league, but I thought that as long as the receiver (eg, Kelce) doesn’t actively engage the defender that he’s trying to pick, then it’s not a pick.

 

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7 minutes ago, Rubes said:

I have no idea what a pick is in this league, but I thought that as long as the receiver (eg, Kelce) doesn’t actively engage the defender that he’s trying to pick, then it’s not a pick.

 

 

I think in this league it is still a pick, they just don't call it unless it is noticeable.

 

Best thing is for the coaches to call attention to it to the refs and the next time have White run right into him and flail about and fall on the ground like a soccer player if you want to draw the flag.

 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

So good breakdown, Cover1 gets a little fanboy about the Bills D but overall shows how Frazier crafted a solid gameplan and the players did a great job of communicating and sharing responsibilities to minimize the grey areas between zones that Mahomes exploited so well in the AFCCG.  Belt and suspenders belt and suspenders, backing each other up on almost every play all evening long.

 

To me, brings up a question though: what is a pick play?  If you go to about 18:30, clearest example of a play KC runs at least 3x.

 

White is covering Hill (actually on this play, it's #17 Blake Bell), who is off the LOS to the bottom of the screen.  Kelce is inside.  On the snap, Kelce slows his release so that his big ass is right in Whites way as he tries to follow his guy on a shallow crosser.

 

I'm not sure I understand how a pick play is defined.  Isn't that a pick?  Cover1 doesn't say anything about it.

 

Effectively, it seems like a pick in that in having to avoid Kelce's big ass, White is separated from the guy he's covering.  The first time the Chiefs did it, it worked for a first down and more.  The second time the Bills had Hyde drop in to help and he was in perfect position to make the tackle short of the sticks - as it happened, Hill deflected the pass and Hyde picked it for a TD so HA serves you right.

 

 


Re the pick, as I recall, you can pick within a yard of the LOS, And I think this may qualify? But I may be misremembering that rule. 

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13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

So good breakdown, Cover1 gets a little fanboy about the Bills D but overall shows how Frazier crafted a solid gameplan and the players did a great job of communicating and sharing responsibilities to minimize the grey areas between zones that Mahomes exploited so well in the AFCCG.  Belt and suspenders belt and suspenders, backing each other up on almost every play all evening long.

 

To me, brings up a question though: what is a pick play?  If you go to about 18:30, clearest example of a play KC runs at least 3x.

 

White is covering Hill (actually on this play, it's #17 Blake Bell), who is off the LOS to the bottom of the screen.  Kelce is inside.  On the snap, Kelce slows his release so that his big ass is right in Whites way as he tries to follow his guy on a shallow crosser.

 

I'm not sure I understand how a pick play is defined.  Isn't that a pick?  Cover1 doesn't say anything about it.

 

Effectively, it seems like a pick in that in having to avoid Kelce's big ass, White is separated from the guy he's covering.  The first time the Chiefs did it, it worked for a first down and more.  The second time the Bills had Hyde drop in to help and he was in perfect position to make the tackle short of the sticks - as it happened, Hill deflected the pass and Hyde picked it for a TD so HA serves you right.

 

 

 

 

I saw the plays in question but I think you rarely see a pick play called within 5 yards of the LOS because of the allowable contact in that area.    

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Offensive pass interference is "cutting off the path of an opponent by making contact with him, without playing the ball."

 

You have to look like you are running a route and any contact is purely happenstance. It requires acting. Also, you usually aren't looking to hit the defender, just merely make them run around you and lose a step or two.

 

"Blocking more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage by an offensive player prior to a pass being thrown is offensive pass interference."

 

Illegal pick plays only count if they are 1 yard beyond the line of scrimmage. Otherwise, it is considered legal blocking.

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You can see why Beane made it a priority to keep the secondary (White, Poyer, Hyde, Johnson) signed through the next few years.  The communication is top notch.  Also, it gives me an appreciation of what Edmunds brings to the table in defending the pass.

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pick plays shouldnt even be a thing in the NFL.   thats the crap that the Pats used to run all the friggen time to get cheap yards and first downs.   i know the NFL wants exciting offensive games,   pick plays arent exciting,  they rarely go for big yards,  and it makes it nearly impossible for any defense to stop them if done correctly.   they really are an unfair advantage for an offense that runs them well.

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Not to get too far into the weeds, but it also can be called a rub route, and in some circumstances like. For example the Pats were good at it, they used the official as the obstacle.  No contact takes place, but simply a body in the way of the defender for the WR to break free for a yard or two.  Others have already defined the amount of yards allowed etc.

 

Today, you’ll see rub routes along the middle all the time and Beasley is good at it.  The key is using the ref to you’re advantage.  It’s harder per to write out than it is to use an etcha sketch, or whiteboard to demonstrate without getting too wordy.

 

I can’t remember the last pick play a ref called as a penalty.  They almost never get called anymore.

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4 hours ago, MJS said:

Offensive pass interference is "cutting off the path of an opponent by making contact with him, without playing the ball."

 

You have to look like you are running a route and any contact is purely happenstance. It requires acting. Also, you usually aren't looking to hit the defender, just merely make them run around you and lose a step or two.

 

"Blocking more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage by an offensive player prior to a pass being thrown is offensive pass interference."

 

Illegal pick plays only count if they are 1 yard beyond the line of scrimmage. Otherwise, it is considered legal blocking.

The issue I have is that OPI is rarely called, and almost never on these plays unless it’s ridiculously obvious and the blocker wiping out a defender 5+ yards downfield before the ball arrives. 

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@Hapless Bills Fan - I think if you are looking for pick plays - look at the 2 OPI calls.  In those cases - 1 against KC and 1 against Buffalo - the WR makes contact with the defender and does not appear to be running routes.  They do not “block” exactly, but they make physical contact preventing the DB from getting outside/inside.  
 

Kelce is in the way - but makes no contact with Tre and Tre works his way around.  If Tre goes straight and goes right through Kelce - then the refs have to decide did Kelce block him or was it incidental.  The problem is if you hit him and get stopped and they call it incidental- you might be way out of position - allowing a bigger play.

 

It happens all the time by many teams - rarely is it called.  Hill and Kelce - have a nice feel for it because Hill needs so little space to get open - that a half step to get around frees Hill up.  The Bills did a great job of mixing covers and slowing that play down.  The other option was if Tre and Johnson switched coverage on those - with Tre picking up Kelce and Johnson using his leverage on Hill.

 

My bigger issue was on the first defensive holding call where Kelce ran right over the DB and did not get called for a penalty, but they. Allen the DB that got knocked down for holding.  
 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

I think in this league it is still a pick, they just don't call it unless it is noticeable.

 

Best thing is for the coaches to call attention to it to the refs and the next time have White run right into him and flail about and fall on the ground like a soccer player if you want to draw the flag.

 

 

 

Very dangerous strategy.  If the pick isn’t called you’ve let a guy get wide open for probably a huge play.

 

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59 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

@Hapless Bills Fan - I think if you are looking for pick plays - look at the 2 OPI calls.  In those cases - 1 against KC and 1 against Buffalo - the WR makes contact with the defender and does not appear to be running routes.  They do not “block” exactly, but they make physical contact preventing the DB from getting outside/inside.  
 

Kelce is in the way - but makes no contact with Tre and Tre works his way around.  If Tre goes straight and goes right through Kelce - then the refs have to decide did Kelce block him or was it incidental.  The problem is if you hit him and get stopped and they call it incidental- you might be way out of position - allowing a bigger play.

 

It happens all the time by many teams - rarely is it called.  Hill and Kelce - have a nice feel for it because Hill needs so little space to get open - that a half step to get around frees Hill up.  The Bills did a great job of mixing covers and slowing that play down.  The other option was if Tre and Johnson switched coverage on those - with Tre picking up Kelce and Johnson using his leverage on Hill.

 

My bigger issue was on the first defensive holding call where Kelce ran right over the DB and did not get called for a penalty, but they. Allen the DB that got knocked down for holding.  
 

 

 

 

As you are saying for a pick to be called you must engage a defender without looking like you are running a route. 

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9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I'm not sure I understand how a pick play is defined.  


I’ve thought about this as well and also have no idea.  Like some other fouls, it seems like officials are only flagging the most blatant and obvious examples.  There looks to be pick plays on many routes when receivers are lined up next to each other 

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