Training Camp practice and Media Sessions 8/5

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, BigAl2526 said:

The only downside is that a player whose primary role is as a returner, he may not be as available to run plays on offense.  That, according to special teams icon Steve Tasker, who says it's really tough to do both.

I think there's a difference between being a regular starter on the offense, which Tasker was sometimes asked to do, and being a spot substitute, which is the role McKenzie has been in.  When Tasker was in the starting lineup, he needed to be in the offense and wider receiver meetings every day to get prepared.   McKenzie is probably not starting unless two of the top four receivers get hurt, maybe top five if Kumerow makes the team.   So McKenzie is a little better able to drop in and out of offense meetings as he does his special teams prep.  

48 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

This data is from last October, but I have always been a bit skeptical of Andre Roberts .. he takes them out all the time and on average we were one of the better teams re: starting field position.. but by just a little bit ( a yard or two). I also think that Josh like most QBs struggle more when backed up .. I would be fine if Mackenzie took a knee every time .. and he has the added advantage of being a real WR.

 

https://thecommutesports.com/2020/10/27/nfl-starting-field-position/

 

The chart is pretty interesting so I would recommend taking a look.

Thanks for that article.   I'd encourage people to look at it before they say more about Roberts not being a loss.  The Jets and the Bills were the two standout teams, by far, on combined kickoff and punt return yardage.  

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I wish the full McKenzie audio was available. Dude probably said "know what I'm saying" no less than 100 times! 🤣

[Mark Vader]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

It's time to start talking about Kumerow as a roster lock.

I believe that we will carry 7 WR's on the active roster.

[Shaw66]

25 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Well, I think it's more about Kumerow basically being the "cinderella story" I guess you could say. So there is and will be more about him I would think. Davis has been solid. He has a couple drops I believe was reported few days ago, which is no biggie. Otherwise seems to me he is doing his thing as usual.

I don't Kumerow is a Cinderella story.  He isn't coming out of nowhere.  He's impact plays in very limited duty on teams that have had good receivers.  Three TDs in 21 receptions isn't bad.  And he's a guy Rodgers has commented on favorably.  My sense has been that he's gotten the press because he's legitimately standing out.  It's been day after day, plus he's playing the special teams.  

[RiotAct]

I love McKenzie, but he’s only been here for three seasons.  Not sure if I’d consider that “through the bad times and the good”… lol.

 

Although, yes, 2018 was a down year largely because Josh Allen was raw and our WRs kind of sucked.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Is it crazy to think he could take snaps from Davis this year? Kumerow has been the better player at camp according to all reports.

 

I was just wondering the same thing.  I dont think Davis's roster spot is any kind of jeopardy obviously, the team and staff love him and are high on him for obvious reasons.  But if Kumerow is impressing this much and keeps it up, to get him on the field its going to cut into somebody's snaps.  Not to mention, all reports have really been talking up McKenzie too, literally referring to him many times as just unguardable.  

 

How do they get all these weapons on the field and in a rotation is going to be interesting and fun to see how Daboll uses them all.

 

Coming into the offseason, I was very confident Davis would start opposite Diggs, even after they signed Sanders.  But Sanders has also been supposedly hot and impressing and him and Josh seem to have rapidly built timing and chemistry like he did with Diggs last year.  So Sanders seems to be the lead dog to start opposite Diggs right now.  

 

So you got Diggs, Sanders and Cole as big cogs in the offense...if they all stay healthy, there wont be a ton of snaps left for Davis, Kumerow and Mckenzie.  Davis opportunities as a rookie came from the injury issues to Brown and how much time he missed.  

 

Ive got a bunch of people talking about Davis as a late round target in Fantasy, but I actually think his stats go down this year, only due to the fact I just don't see how he gets as many snaps without injuries.  The WR group is so deep right now.

[LeGOATski]

McKenzie obviously has return talent, but he's just more boom-or-bust than Roberts. Roberts was like the Frank Gore of return men. Always gonna get positive yards and make some big plays, but probably never take it to the house.

 

McKenzie will lose yards sometimes because he'll run in circles. But we saw him take it to the house against Miami last year, I think our only return TD, despite his limited touches. 

 

The positive thing is that the Bills offense is now good enough to make up for the worse field position that may result from a McKenzie mistake.

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

13 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I love McKenzie, but he’s only been here for three seasons.  Not sure if I’d consider that “through the bad times and the good”… lol.

 

Although, yes, 2018 was a down year largely because Josh Allen was raw and our WRs kind of sucked.

 

I'll allow it. Nathan Peterman started two games that year. A player quit at halftime and we got blown out by a billion points several times.

[Jerry Jabber]

3 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Eff Dawson Knox...dude can kick rocks, as far as I’m concerned...

I’ve been wanting the Bills to upgrade the TE position for years now. While I think we have a great group of WR’s, I’m concerned with the RB’s and TE’s this year.

[LeGOATski]

15 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I love McKenzie, but he’s only been here for three seasons.  Not sure if I’d consider that “through the bad times and the good”… lol.

 

Although, yes, 2018 was a down year largely because Josh Allen was raw and our WRs kind of sucked.

Yeah, he's certainly not a Jerry. But I think that kind of statement is just a reflection of his new mindset as one of the veteran leaders.

[Back2Buff]

24 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I believe that we will carry 7 WR's on the active roster.

 

Doubt it.  It's pretty obvious 6 guys have taken off.  Any other guy, I don't even see getting picked up by another team.

[MJS]

20 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I love McKenzie, but he’s only been here for three seasons.  Not sure if I’d consider that “through the bad times and the good”… lol.

 

Although, yes, 2018 was a down year largely because Josh Allen was raw and our WRs kind of sucked.

2018 was a pretty bad offensive year. The team was pretty devoid of any offensive talent. Defense was still good, though.

[Rocky Landing]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

I got flamed not long ago for suggesting that they would keep Johnson for his ST play.

[DCbillsfan]

25 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I believe that we will carry 7 WR's on the active roster.

I agree.  The strength of the Bills is their passing game.  They have a deep WR room and it makes sense to keep 7.  After last season ended, we learned about how beat up the WRs were.  I'm thinking Diggs, Sanders, Beasley, Kumerow, Davis, McKenzie, and Hodgins.  Dress 6 on game day.

[Mat68]

5 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I got flamed not long ago for suggesting that they would keep Johnson for his ST play.

Hughes, Addison, Epinesa, Rousseau, Basham and Obga are all better on defense.  Are you keeping 7 des?  Do you keep Johnson over Addison?  I think its a numbers game.

[Rocky Landing]

Just now, Mat68 said:

Hughes, Addison, Epinesa, Rousseau, Basham and Obga are all better on defense.  Are you keeping 7 des?  Do you keep Johnson over Addison?  I think its a numbers game.

My prediction was/is that Addison gets cut. At any rate, I don't accept the Obada vs. Johnson concept. 

[JaCrispy]

43 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I believe that we will carry 7 WR's on the active roster.

I don’t think we do, nor do we need to...both McKenzie and Koom play ST...stash the young guys on practice squad until needed...save the extra roster spot for the trenches...👍

Edited August 5, 2021 by JaCrispy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Right.  For any receiver, it's all about being consistently good catching the ball.  Everyone is going to have a drop once in a while.  The problem Knox has (like some other receivers), is that once you develop the reputation, even if you've improved, everyone notices your drops.   

 

And maybe he was better in 2020 than 2019, but he wasn't good enough.  He needs another big step, or he's going to be replaced.  

 

Agree, but there are drops and then there are drops.  A PBU or a drop on 2 and 7 on the opponent's 35 yd line is annoying but "whateves"

Drops in the end-zone are killer, especially if you're open and the pass is Money

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

It doesn’t sound like he is “checking down” - he had 2 long TD passes in practice Tuesday and again today.  I think there are just different takes based upon what you are looking for.  We see the same thing with Dane Jackson and Wallace with people saying one had a good day and another giving him a thumbs down.  Just different viewpoints depending on exactly which play you noted.

I mean two throws are only two throws, I'm sure Tyrod and Trent Edwards threw it downfield a couple times in a practice session too. We don't really know.

Edited August 5, 2021 by 2020 Our Year For Sure

[Mat68]

7 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

My prediction was/is that Addison gets cut. At any rate, I don't accept the Obada vs. Johnson concept. 

I understand that idea.  Im pretty much done with multiple Teams only players making the roster.  Also, De is a premier position.  After how last season ended Im not ok with a De on the roster if he cant rush the passer.  Johnson has the measurables but doesnt get to the Qb.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Mat68

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

He was a returner in college, had 5 punt return for tds in college. Also averaged 11.7 yard per return, so the talent is there.

Ok, I was speaking in regards to NFL. I'm not familiar with his college play. Anyways, he still hasn't been good in the pros, however I agree with you that the talent is there and he proved recently as of last season that he can be a threat as K/R.

[YoloinOhio]

50 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I wish the full McKenzie audio was available. Dude probably said "know what I'm saying" no less than 100 times! 🤣

I listened to a podcast with him on it and he says it more than the average person says “um”

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The best Ford has looked as a pro was in the preseason of 2019 lined up at guard on the right side next to Nsekhe.    

 

Somehow a bogus narrative came about that he was somehow better suited on the left side.........he stunk when he played there.

 

His best shot is on the right side, IMO.    Boettger definitely outplayed Ford on the left side last year.

“Maybe” Ford playing injured for an extended period had a something to do with that…, Beane did mention that he has played injured more than not, anyway, we shall see as this preseason goes on, has CF taken any reps at L guard so far? It sounds more like RG is the position he is slotted to lock down, if he can. 

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

I understand that idea.  Im pretty much done with multiple Teams only players making the roster.  Also, De is a premier position.  After how last season ended Im not ok with a De on the roster if he cant rush the passer.  Johnson has the measurables but doesnt get to the Qb.

IIRC, he was decent against the run, but he played a low percentage of defensive snaps, 15%, or so, I believe. Definitely saw him make plays on teams, though.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

We needed to add speed to the RB room.  Breida was the only speed addition.  I can’t see any scenario in which breida doesn’t make the team unless Antonio Williams explodes into the scene and takes the spot from him.  

 

Isn't CWade supposed to be fast?  So in theory, he could show something...

[Rocky Landing]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Noooo

 

I hope someone puts together a compilation of these QB races at the end of TC.

 

And, I have a hard time believing McKensie is anywhere near the bubble on this team.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Rocky Landing

[Patrick Duffy]

47 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't Kumerow is a Cinderella story.  He isn't coming out of nowhere.  He's impact plays in very limited duty on teams that have had good receivers.  Three TDs in 21 receptions isn't bad.  And he's a guy Rodgers has commented on favorably.  My sense has been that he's gotten the press because he's legitimately standing out.  It's been day after day, plus he's playing the special teams.  

Well was just using it as an expression. I did say "I guess you could say" after the Cinderella statement. Regardless though, point was he likely will be talked about more than a few others due to the fact he has been a practice squad guy for the most part. Also since he is making a damn good impression in camp so far, add in he went to Packers and apparently was impressive there also.

 

Just feel like he will be more of the talk than, say Davis or whatever since he is looking great. I don't know, just my 2 cents.

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Agree, but there are drops and then there are drops.  A PBU or a drop on 2 and 7 on the opponent's 35 yd line is annoying but "whateves"

Drops in the end-zone are killer, especially if you're open and the pass is Money

I agree.  I'm old enough that I don't keep a lot of stuff in my active memory so, for example, until a few weeks ago I had forgotten about Stevie's drop in the end zone in overtime.   Someone mentioned it, and the memory popped up.  I've thought about that play often since then.   My recollection is that Stevie was a quite reliable pass catcher.   Everyone has drops, but a Stevie drop was surprising.   However, drop one in the end zone in overtime, and your reputation is forever changed. 

Just now, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Well was just using it as an expression. I did say "I guess you could say" after the Cinderella statement. Regardless though, point was he likely will be talked about more than a few others due to the fact he has been a practice squad guy for the most part. Also since he is making a damn good impression in camp so far, add in he went to Packers and apparently was impressive there also.

 

Just feel like he will be more of the talk than, say Davis or whatever since he is looking great. I don't know, just my 2 cents.

Got you.   The question is whether Kumerow is getting noticed because he's a new-found toy, but it doesn't seem that way to me.  If Davis were lighting it up, people would be talking about whether he'll start over Sanders, or whether Sanders will take Beasley's job so Davis can get into the lineup.  But it isn't Davis lighting it up.  It's Kumerow, and given his past, it just seems to me like this is a real challenge to make the team, not a Cinderella story.  People may be surprised if he makes the squad, but no one is saying where did this guy come from.  

 

Whatever.   I get your point.   

[Don Otreply]

49 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I love McKenzie, but he’s only been here for three seasons.  Not sure if I’d consider that “through the bad times and the good”… lol.

 

Although, yes, 2018 was a down year largely because Josh Allen was raw and our WRs kind of sucked.

You kind of contradict yourself…  it was not just the WRs, it was the O line , the TEs, the RBs etc etc, that was an ugly team offense, if there ever was one,

[Rocky Landing]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

I remember reading an article back when the Pats* were dominant about just how many more practices they got every year as a result of always being in the playoffs, and how effectively that would carry over to the next season. It made sense to me at the time, but now we're really seeing it. I've been watching the video tweets coming out of the other three camps in the division, and the difference in energy, and activity is palpable. The Bills players are walking out onto the field just knowing what to do, and what needs to be done, and they're having so much fun doing it. In the other three teams... a lot of standing around watching the coaches, low energy, low confidence-- just different body language all around.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Rocky Landing said:

I remember reading an article back when the Pats* were dominant about just how many more practices they got every year as a result of always being in the playoffs, and how effectively that would carry over to the next season. It made sense to me at the time, but now we're really seeing it. I've been watching the video tweets coming out of the other three camps in the division, and the difference in energy, and activity is palpable. The Bills players are walking out onto the field just knowing what to do, and what needs to be done, and they're having so much fun doing it. In the other three teams... a lot of standing around watching the coaches, low energy, low confidence-- just different body language all around.

Yep one of the reporters said it’s hard to tell the difference between their TC practices and their practices during the season, except there are just a lot more players. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Rocky Landing]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I have to wonder how safe Jaquan Johnson's spot on the roster is? I remember the word on him coming out of the draft being how athletic he was, but then being a bit of a disappointment in his first TC, and preseason. He seems to have been pretty much under the radar since then. It seems as though Hamlin, Thompson, and Thomas have all made plays here, and there this summer. And, it wouldn't be inaccurate to think of Siran Neal as something of a CB/S hybrid player-- he was, after all, drafted as a safety. 

 

Could Jaquan Johnson be a surprise cut?

[Shaw66]

20 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I remember reading an article back when the Pats* were dominant about just how many more practices they got every year as a result of always being in the playoffs, and how effectively that would carry over to the next season. It made sense to me at the time, but now we're really seeing it. I've been watching the video tweets coming out of the other three camps in the division, and the difference in energy, and activity is palpable. The Bills players are walking out onto the field just knowing what to do, and what needs to be done, and they're having so much fun doing it. In the other three teams... a lot of standing around watching the coaches, low energy, low confidence-- just different body language all around.

Sal's comment and your comments are very interesting. 

 

This is exactly what McDermott said when he arrived in Buffalo.   He described exactly this benefit of having good players, a team approach, and continuity.   He said, without describing it, that when you have a team that comes to camp so far ahead of the usual learning curve, it pulls the rookies up that level.  That's how Davis was able to be an impact contributor so early, and it's what I hope we'll see from at least the top three picks this year.   Those guys already know what's expected of them, and it's easier for them because everyone around them is already doing what's expecting.   

 

Everything is different than just a few years ago. 

4 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I have to wonder how safe Jaquan Johnson's spot on the roster is? I remember the word on him coming out of the draft being how athletic he was, but then being a bit of a disappointment in his first TC, and preseason. He seems to have been pretty much under the radar since then. It seems as though Hamlin, Thompson, and Thomas have all made plays here, and there this summer. And, it wouldn't be inaccurate to think of Siran Neal as something of a CB/S hybrid player-- he was, after all, drafted as a safety. 

 

Could Jaquan Johnson be a surprise cut?

He could be a surprise cut.  If I remember his story correctly, Johnson was a project.   Raw talent when he got to college, and not a polished player when he was drafted - just a lot of talent and hitting ability.   So he's had some catching up to do.   By this season he should be showing that he can understand and execute what the system requires of him.   If he isn't showing it this summer, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bills move on.  Disappointed, because he could be a physical presence, but not surprised. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

“Dawson Knox missed a sure TD. More on that in observations later. Bad drop.”

I said it last year, the kid is up in his own head on the catchable balls.

Linking this to the instinct threads, when he is just reacting he makes Sick catches ( Colts game, over the middle while getting mugged on a bad pass by JA)

When he sees it coming, especially in the EZ you can see a full body pucker happen. When he does catch it in the EZ on the easy ones he turns into a statue and falls down like a statue…. It’s ugly!

Kid needs a sports psychologist in the worst way.

 

 

When players aren't in competition they often get into their own heads and struggle with things like this.

 

The Bills haven't provided Knox with a lot of competition since he's been there..........he's always been the only TE with all the physical traits you want.

 

Davis also has some struggles with dropping easy ones to some extent.    Hopefully the heat from Kumerow will get him focused on competing against someone rather than battling his hands.

4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The other side is this year the draft was very shallow - guys like Stevenson drafted in the 5th, 6th, and 7th rounds - mostly would have been UFAs in a typical year.  The pool was roughly 1/2 the size due to COVID. 
 

I think Stevenson needs to more than flash to make this roster.  He need to outshine McKenzie and he needs mistakes from McKenzie to catch up and pass him.

 

I don’t see it at this point - Stevenson will be a nice PS player and will have a shot next year.

 

 

The pool of players was shallow overall.........but not for WR.........very deep draft at WR.    There have been plenty of years when a guy like Stevenson goes 3rd or 4th round.    Ask Buddy Nix about TJ Graham.   Not nearly the prospect Stevenson was........but sometimes there have been WR droughts that last for several draft classes.   2015-2017 was like that most recently.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I was just wondering the same thing.  I dont think Davis's roster spot is any kind of jeopardy obviously, the team and staff love him and are high on him for obvious reasons.  But if Kumerow is impressing this much and keeps it up, to get him on the field its going to cut into somebody's snaps.  Not to mention, all reports have really been talking up McKenzie too, literally referring to him many times as just unguardable.  

 

How do they get all these weapons on the field and in a rotation is going to be interesting and fun to see how Daboll uses them all.

 

Coming into the offseason, I was very confident Davis would start opposite Diggs, even after they signed Sanders.  But Sanders has also been supposedly hot and impressing and him and Josh seem to have rapidly built timing and chemistry like he did with Diggs last year.  So Sanders seems to be the lead dog to start opposite Diggs right now.  

 

So you got Diggs, Sanders and Cole as big cogs in the offense...if they all stay healthy, there wont be a ton of snaps left for Davis, Kumerow and Mckenzie.  Davis opportunities as a rookie came from the injury issues to Brown and how much time he missed.  

 

Ive got a bunch of people talking about Davis as a late round target in Fantasy, but I actually think his stats go down this year, only due to the fact I just don't see how he gets as many snaps without injuries.  The WR group is so deep right now.

 

 

I was at the practice Saturday and I said it here when I got back...........it looked like he was pushing more for WR4 than in any competition with Hodgins/Stevenson.    Just a different tier.    He's intense and competing every snap out there.   Hopefully Davis rises to the challenge.    As @dave mcbride pointed out a few weeks ago........sometimes Davis seemed in his own head last season and dropped some easy ones.   

[Mat68]

15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Sal's comment and your comments are very interesting. 

 

This is exactly what McDermott said when he arrived in Buffalo.   He described exactly this benefit of having good players, a team approach, and continuity.   He said, without describing it, that when you have a team that comes to camp so far ahead of the usual learning curve, it pulls the rookies up that level.  That's how Davis was able to be an impact contributor so early, and it's what I hope we'll see from at least the top three picks this year.   Those guys already know what's expected of them, and it's easier for them because everyone around them is already doing what's expecting.   

 

Everything is different than just a few years ago. 

He could be a surprise cut.  If I remember his story correctly, Johnson was a project.   Raw talent when he got to college, and not a polished player when he was drafted - just a lot of talent and hitting ability.   So he's had some catching up to do.   By this season he should be showing that he can understand and execute what the system requires of him.   If he isn't showing it this summer, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bills move on.  Disappointed, because he could be a physical presence, but not surprised. 

I thought it was the opposite.  Team captin, johnny on the spot with turnovers.  More smarts than atheltism.  Big time program captins dont last til the end of day 3 if they are also athltic freaks.

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I was at the practice Saturday and I said it here when I got back...........it looked like he was pushing more for WR4 than in any competition with Hodgins/Stevenson.    Just a different tier.    He's intense and competing every snap out there.   Hopefully Davis rises to the challenge.    As @dave mcbride pointed out a few weeks ago........sometimes Davis seemed in his own head last season and dropped some easy ones.   

Very interesting indeed.  I think we can all agree that Davis roster spot likely isn’t in any jeopardy barring some extreme regression in preseason.  But the Kumerow buzz seems very legit and like he’s gonna be hard to keep off the field.

 

I mean Diggs, Sanders and Cole are gonna eat targets this year if they all stay healthy, so it will be quite interesting to see how targets and snaps get deployed to Davis, Kumerow, and McKenzie.  
 

I mean even McKenzie is getting a ton of praise and hype in his own right.  Often being labeled just totally uncoverable so far, so he’s gonna get snaps too, especially with those specialty plays Daboll likes to use him for.  
 

Knox on the other hand seems to be credited with a bad drop every practice. So if he’s not reliable enough, that will open up some more 4 and 5 receiver sets to get all these guys on the field too.  

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

I thought it was the opposite.  Team captin, johnny on the spot with turnovers.  More smarts than atheltism.  Big time program captins dont last til the end of day 3 if they are also athltic freaks.

Maybe I'm wrong.   Wouldn't be the first time ... in the past five minutes. 

[Mat68]

I feel like some young players need to step up.  Guys that can play on 1st 2nd and 3rd down need to take spots from core special teamers.  Williams taking Jones spot on special teams.  Not the same position on teams but can contribute.  Basham and Ogada playing on teams makes Johnson less imprortant.  Tyrell Adams beating out Mykervich (sp).  

 

The roster is deep.  The bottom players becoming viable options/projects for the offense and defense is how the team improves.  I feel like Buffalo has moved past winning the fringes.  Buffalo has a chance to dominate.  I dont want a dumpster fire on teams but a slight net loss for teams but a positve impact to defense or offense will be better.