New Car Purchase Help (Update Purchased!)

[qwksilver]

I am looking to buy a new car. I have looked at local dealer websites, Cars-com and Auto Trader-com & Cargurus-com. The local dealers have insane DOC fees (999.00), dealer add ons and they don’t have it in the color and options I want. So, I think this purchase will have to come from out of state.

 

Does anyone know of another national car website other than the 3 above?

 

Has anyone ordered a new car from the factory?

 

Has anyone used an auto broker before? My brother-in-law swears by them.

 

Anyone have any other thoughts?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

 

[Mr Info]

I suspect I am in the minority but consider Tesla if they are in your price range. I had an outstanding purchase & delivery experience and have not had as much enjoyment driving a car. If Tesla is out of your budget, maybe another EV? If you can wait a bit, there may be rebate incentives forthcoming for EVs that may place some of them comparable in cost to ICE vehicles. There are very low maintenance expenses for EVs. Also, plenty of free chargers around. The only time I pay for charging/miles is when I am on long trips & using superchargers.

[qwksilver]

30 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

I suspect I am in the minority but consider Tesla if they are in your price range. I had an outstanding purchase & delivery experience and have not had as much enjoyment driving a car. If Tesla is out of your budget, maybe another EV? If you can wait a bit, there may be rebate incentives forthcoming for EVs that may place some of them comparable in cost to ICE vehicles. There are very low maintenance expenses for EVs. Also, plenty of free chargers around. The only time I pay for charging/miles is when I am on long trips & using superchargers.

I do like the look of the Teslas but I'm not ready for an EV yet. I really wish Tesla's model of no show room or pushy salesman would trickle to the rest of the manufacturers. That is one of parts I'm trying to avoid.

Edited April 17, 2021 by qwksilver

[WhoTom]

For a car we bought about twelve years ago, we used the research tool at cars.com to determine the best makes/models for our needs. We took a few test drives at local dealerships and then we searched for the same model at dealership websites within 100 miles of us. Many had low-price guarantees where they'd beat other dealerships' best offers, so my wife printed out the lowest offer, which was from a dealer about 100 miles away. We went to a closer dealer, who beat the offer by $50. We still have that car - our son drives it most of the time. When he moves out, we're giving it to him. (Otherwise, I would have sold it, since my wife and I don't need two cars anymore.)

 

For the car we bought five years ago, we did something similar, although the price-match didn't apply because the car was (technically) used. It was a "program car" - one that a company had leased for a year and only put 1800 miles on it. It was about $6k less than a brand new one of the same model. For $150, we transferred the original warranty, so for all practical purposes, we got a new car at a big discount.

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

57 minutes ago, qwksilver said:

I do like the look of the Teslas but I'm not ready for an EV yet. I really wish Tesla's model of no show room or pushy salesman would trickle to the rest of the manufacturers. That is one of parts I'm trying to avoid.

They did.  Saturn.

*
Eff you, Roger Smith.  Or as the Saab owners' bumper stickers said: 'A**holes killed my car!'

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

This is probably an antiquated practice. But I emailed all the area Honda dealers and told them exactly What I was looking for and got price quotes. Then I just went with the best price. They Will still get you on the trade in. But that eliminates the haggling and pressure sales. 

[Seasons1992]

3 hours ago, qwksilver said:

I am looking to buy a new car. I have looked at local dealer websites, Cars-com and Auto Trader-com & Cargurus-com. The local dealers have insane DOC fees (999.00), dealer add ons and they don’t have it in the color and options I want. So, I think this purchase will have to come from out of state.

 

Does anyone know of another national car website other than the 3 above?

 

Has anyone ordered a new car from the factory?

 

Has anyone used an auto broker before? My brother-in-law swears by them.

 

Anyone have any other thoughts?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

 

 

Mr. Car Guy here. 

 

You haven't said what you want.

Start there, and let me either judge you based on what you want, or educate you based on what you want, and THEN I'll recommend something.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Seasons1992

[Patrick Duffy]

3 hours ago, qwksilver said:

I am looking to buy a new car. I have looked at local dealer websites, Cars-com and Auto Trader-com & Cargurus-com. The local dealers have insane DOC fees (999.00), dealer add ons and they don’t have it in the color and options I want. So, I think this purchase will have to come from out of state.

 

Does anyone know of another national car website other than the 3 above?

 

Has anyone ordered a new car from the factory?

 

Has anyone used an auto broker before? My brother-in-law swears by them.

 

Anyone have any other thoughts?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

 

I always go with Carmax. 

[Augie]

48 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

This is probably an antiquated practice. But I emailed all the area Honda dealers and told them exactly What I was looking for and got price quotes. Then I just went with the best price. They Will still get you on the trade in. But that eliminates the haggling and pressure sales. 

 

My wife used to do business with a VERY large car dealer. He told her he’ll give the new cars away because he makes all of his money on the used cars (and he makes A LOT of money!). 

 

I’m with @qwksilver here, I just detest the entire experience of the showroom and the pushy sales people. For better or worse, my wife actually enjoys “the game” of it all. Otherwise she seems to be fairly well balanced mentally. She sees the negations as “sport” and is quick to get up and walk out until someone caves for her. 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

What is wrong with the car you have?

[qwksilver]

I just detest the entire experience of the showroom and the pushy sales people. For better or worse, my wife actually enjoys “the game” of it all. Otherwise she seems to be fairly well balanced mentally. She sees the negations as “sport” and is quick to get up and walk out until someone caves for her. 

 

@AugieI mean its 2021. Can't this process be fixed.

Carvana and Carmax etc have the idea, they just need a way to get new cars. Plus 4 or 5 hours in a dealership is just a big waste of time...

 

Really think I'm going to talk to my brother in law's auto broker. He said they deliver the car to your house/work and I just sign the papers. That's easily worth a few hundred bucks.

2 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

What is wrong with the car you have?

I sold it to Carvana. We are currently a 1 vehicle house which is fine because I work from home 80% of the time.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 hours ago, qwksilver said:

I am looking to buy a new car. I have looked at local dealer websites, Cars-com and Auto Trader-com & Cargurus-com. The local dealers have insane DOC fees (999.00), dealer add ons and they don’t have it in the color and options I want. So, I think this purchase will have to come from out of state.

 

Does anyone know of another national car website other than the 3 above?

 

Has anyone ordered a new car from the factory?

 

Has anyone used an auto broker before? My brother-in-law swears by them.

 

Anyone have any other thoughts?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

 

I had a former co-worker that used an auto broker, and loved it. I had thought of hiring my own BIL to do it, as he is a huge car guy, but then decided not to bother him in the end. If it’s only a few hundred bucks and this is someone you can trust, it seems like it is worth it. 

[CIrvine]

A coworker bought his car from Costco a few years ago.  He said he saved about $4,000.

[davefan66]

Concerning best vehicles? I don’t know there is a huge difference any longer between manufacturers, and the product they sell.  The classic “lemon” still can be had, but don’t feel it’s much of a concern as it used to be.

 

Purchasing?  Kelly Blur Book is what I use.  Has info on what the car should sell for and what incentives are current.  Not just customer incentives, but what the manufacturer is offering the dealer.  Have a number you want and feel you can live with.  Go in and negotiate it.  Plenty of dealers if you don’t like  a certain one.  

 

As long as you did your research and are comfortable with the number, all is well.  Will you leave a few bucks on the table?  Probably.  That’s what happens in negotiations. 

 

I would suggest a few year old car.  One coming off a 2 year lease.  Don’t get hit with as much quick depreciation as if it was new.  Usually well maintained and you have your choice over mileage.  If there is a problem with the car, original owner hopefully dealt with it.  I’ve found you can work a few items in on these cars.  I’ve gotten the extended warranty at about half price.  Even had a pair of snow tires thrown in after a deal was made.  To me, It’s easier to get $600 bucks in snows versus haggling over the last $500 of the purchase price.  Money saved is money saved.  As long as in the end I’ve done my research and am comfortable, I’m content.
 

[Gugny]

14 hours ago, qwksilver said:

I just detest the entire experience of the showroom and the pushy sales people. For better or worse, my wife actually enjoys “the game” of it all. Otherwise she seems to be fairly well balanced mentally. She sees the negations as “sport” and is quick to get up and walk out until someone caves for her. 

 

@AugieI mean its 2021. Can't this process be fixed.

Carvana and Carmax etc have the idea, they just need a way to get new cars. Plus 4 or 5 hours in a dealership is just a big waste of time...

 

Really think I'm going to talk to my brother in law's auto broker. He said they deliver the car to your house/work and I just sign the papers. That's easily worth a few hundred bucks.

I sold it to Carvana. We are currently a 1 vehicle house which is fine because I work from home 80% of the time.

 

You're not going to get away from doc fees.  And if you find a place that has little-to-no doc fees, they're getting it from you in some other clever way.

 

Car dealers, new and used, are among the scummiest people on earth.

 

The onus is on the consumer to do the homework.  

 

If you're buying new, the price is going to be the same wherever you go.  

 

Decide the make/model you want.  Test drive it at the nearest dealership to make sure you want it.  Call the dealership you want to work with.  Give him your information over the phone so he can run your credit, etc.  Go in an pick up your car in the next day or two.  That will have you in the dealership for less than an hour.

[Orlando Tim]

If you are buying a new car I can give advice from doing well and doing poorly myself. Make sure you know what financing is available to you, I had a dealer offer me 8% as best offer but when I showed him I could get 3% elsewhere I suddenly got 3%. I also will warn you that often they will try to wait you out, it took me 3+ hours but I got the advertised special as written. Finally make sure you are willing to walk away, unless you are making millions 10 hours is worth 5K.

[Gugny]

34 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

If you are buying a new car I can give advice from doing well and doing poorly myself. Make sure you know what financing is available to you, I had a dealer offer me 8% as best offer but when I showed him I could get 3% elsewhere I suddenly got 3%. I also will warn you that often they will try to wait you out, it took me 3+ hours but I got the advertised special as written. Finally make sure you are willing to walk away, unless you are making millions 10 hours is worth 5K.

 

This is a great point.  Good chances are the salesman needs to sell a car more than you need to buy one.

[That's No Moon]

On 4/17/2021 at 4:06 PM, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

This is probably an antiquated practice. But I emailed all the area Honda dealers and told them exactly What I was looking for and got price quotes. Then I just went with the best price. They Will still get you on the trade in. But that eliminates the haggling and pressure sales. 

You don't have to do a trade in. You can just straight up sell your car.  If the place that you are trading in with wants it then they need to pay what I can get in a stand alone deal for it.  They usually don't want to do that and it's easier to do both deals separately.  On that note, never go to CarSense or something to sell a car.  I did that once just to see.  I sold the car to another dealer a block away for double what they offered me and I wasn't really trying very hard.

[That's No Moon]

On 4/18/2021 at 8:04 AM, Buffalo Timmy said:

If you are buying a new car I can give advice from doing well and doing poorly myself. Make sure you know what financing is available to you, I had a dealer offer me 8% as best offer but when I showed him I could get 3% elsewhere I suddenly got 3%. I also will warn you that often they will try to wait you out, it took me 3+ hours but I got the advertised special as written. Finally make sure you are willing to walk away, unless you are making millions 10 hours is worth 5K.

I like to walk in the door with my own financing.  If they can beat it fine, if not then I know what I have.  New car guys really do have quotas and the end of the month matters to them.  If you really feel like being ballsy go in on the last day of the month about 60 minutes before close of business, with all your financing in hand, knowing exactly what you want that is on their lot right at that second and see how you do.  Be ready to leave if you don't get what you want.  If you get a guy that needs to sell one more car that month to keep his job or hit his bonus or the dealership needs to sell one more car to hit a factory incentive you'll do really well.  The difference to you between the last day and first day of the month is negligible.  You can buy a car any day.  That specific day matters a lot to the sales guys.

 

If you're going to do that you can't piss around. You need to know exactly which car you want that they have on the lot, what you want to pay for it, and have your financing in hand when you walk in the door. If they give it to you, take it, sign the papers and take the car.  You won't do better the next day by shopping the number. Give them an aggressive, but not stupid, price.

[That's No Moon]

On 4/17/2021 at 5:17 PM, qwksilver said:

I just detest the entire experience of the showroom and the pushy sales people. For better or worse, my wife actually enjoys “the game” of it all. Otherwise she seems to be fairly well balanced mentally. She sees the negations as “sport” and is quick to get up and walk out until someone caves for her. 

 

@AugieI mean its 2021. Can't this process be fixed.

Carvana and Carmax etc have the idea, they just need a way to get new cars. Plus 4 or 5 hours in a dealership is just a big waste of time...

I've negotiated my last three cars (2 certified pre-owned, 1 new for my dad) over e-mail and didn't go to the dealership except to sign papers and take the car. I was there an hour and most of that time was me looking at the car.

 

I strongly suggest buying certified pre-owned over new.  You still have factory warranty, you have a dealership to B word to if something is wrong, you don't eat NEARLY the depreciation hit that you do with a new car.  You'll end up with a much nicer car that is much better equipped for the same money.

[That's No Moon]

On 4/17/2021 at 5:02 PM, Augie said:

My wife used to do business with a VERY large car dealer. He told her he’ll give the new cars away because he makes all of his money on the used cars (and he makes A LOT of money!). 

Because they murder people on trade-ins.  People go in focused on the price of the new car they want not the value of what they drove in.  They'll go to the mat for $500 on the new car and then get hammered for $4,000 on the trade without blinking an eye.

 

When thinking about what to offer for a used car look at Kelly Blue Book to see roughly what dealerships are offering for that car in trade-in value.  You'll get a range.  I use the median of that range as a base price for what I assume they paid for the car then offer $1,000 over that.  For example, If KBB says they pay 13k in trade FOR the car then I'd offer them 14k to BUY the car.  They may have paid a little more than average, they may have paid a little less, but they throw blue book value around when it suits them and the dealers have the right to make a little money. They certainly aren't paying MORE than what KBB says in trade because you know they'd come show the customer that and tell them they cant do the deal. If they aren't making money in the deal you won't get the deal, it's that simple.  The idea is to minimize their margin, you're never going to eliminate it and you're never really going to know what it is on a given car so you have to work in aggregate.  I got my last car for 30% off the sticker and all it took me was 2 emails and knowing some information.  Could I have done better?  Maybe.  I'll never know what they actually paid for the car to the penny but I think I got at least reasonably close.  I don't feel like I got skinned though and that's all you're trying to do.

 

You can also see how they got the car.  The Carfax shows the transaction records when the car was bought and sold.  If it came from out of state somewhere (especially far away) just before the dealership owned it they got it at auction which means it was even less than KBB more than likely.  If it was an auction car I offer less than normal because I know there is more room.  The Carfax will also show you how long they've had the car.  It shows you transaction record, when and where a car was sold.  You want it to have been on that dealer's lot as long as possible.  The longer the better.  If they've had a car longer than a month they want it gone, 45 days they want it gone real bad, 60 days and they hate looking at it anymore. Those are the cars you want to buy. They will be cheaper because the dealer is more motivated to get its money out of it and bring in fresh inventory. If you look at a car and they've had it 3 days you aren't going to get a lot of price movement.  53 days?  Big difference.

 

 

[Chef Jim]

On 4/18/2021 at 4:37 AM, Gugny said:

 

You're not going to get away from doc fees.  And if you find a place that has little-to-no doc fees, they're getting it from you in some other clever way.

 

Car dealers, new and used, are among the scummiest people on earth.

 

The onus is on the consumer to do the homework.  

 

If you're buying new, the price is going to be the same wherever you go.  

 

Decide the make/model you want.  Test drive it at the nearest dealership to make sure you want it.  Call the dealership you want to work with.  Give him your information over the phone so he can run your credit, etc.  Go in an pick up your car in the next day or two.  That will have you in the dealership for less than an hour.

 

So if the onus is on the buyer what makes the salesmen the scummiest people on earth?  Have some balls gentlemen.  Just say no!  It's funny but I was just about to say "never go to a dealer when you need a car but when you want one."  The car I drive now is the best car I've ever had, got a great price, told the guy NO on several packages he pushed and this all because I needed a car.  Mine other car was totaled.  I still stick by that tip but I didn't follow it.  I had no choice.  

[Gugny]

10 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

So if the onus is on the buyer what makes the salesmen the scummiest people on earth?  Have some balls gentlemen.  Just say no!  It's funny but I was just about to say "never go to a dealer when you need a car but when you want one."  The car I drive now is the best car I've ever had, got a great price, told the guy NO on several packages he pushed and this all because I needed a car.  Mine other car was totaled.  I still stick by that tip but I didn't follow it.  I had no choice.  

 

I was referring to the owners; not the salesmen.  But I definitely wasn't clear.

 

My point is similar to what I think yours is.  Do your homework.  Be prepared.  Know several places' prices.  And - like you said - if they don't give you what you want for the $$$ you're willing to spend, just walk away.

[sherpa]

Don't want to be a wet blanket here, but just to provide some perspective.

 

Regarding used cars, you can do all the research you want, and that is a good idea, but you don't know what you don't know.

 

My son was a buyer for a nationally recognized company. He bought hundred of vehicles per month.

Kelly Blue Book is over rated. They have little regional relevance, and that matters.

Carfax is overrated. They report what is reported to them, and that isn't always the full story.

 

If you have someone who is skilled at inspecting a used car, you can do well.

 

You can really do well if there is some hiccup in the title or mileage validity. Many times completely innocent, but effects price dramatically.

 

[Chef Jim]

13 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I was referring to the owners; not the salesmen.  But I definitely wasn't clear.

 

My point is similar to what I think yours is.  Do your homework.  Be prepared.  Know several places' prices.  And - like you said - if they don't give you what you want for the $$$ you're willing to spend, just walk away.

No you were clear.  You said dealers.  I just immediately thought salespeople.  

[That's No Moon]

54 minutes ago, sherpa said:

Don't want to be a wet blanket here, but just to provide some perspective.

 

Regarding used cars, you can do all the research you want, and that is a good idea, but you don't know what you don't know.

 

My son was a buyer for a nationally recognized company. He bought hundred of vehicles per month.

Kelly Blue Book is over rated. They have little regional relevance, and that matters.

Carfax is overrated. They report what is reported to them, and that isn't always the full story.

 

If you have someone who is skilled at inspecting a used car, you can do well.

 

You can really do well if there is some hiccup in the title or mileage validity. Many times completely innocent, but effects price dramatically.

 

All of this is exactly correct. You buy a car once every couple years. These guys spend their lives doing it. They are going to be better at it than you. That's just reality. You aren't going to win. You can't win. You can just do the best you can to limit the damage. You are welcome to go in and pay sticker. They won't argue with you.

[sherpa]

17 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

All of this is exactly correct. You buy a car once every couple years. These guys spend their lives doing it. They are going to be better at it than you. That's just reality. You aren't going to win. You can't win. You can just do the best you can to limit the damage. You are welcome to go in and pay sticker. They won't argue with you.

 

It's really not a competition. They are going to do what they need to to make a profit.

As I mentioned, my son was a buyer for a very large national firm.

He was also one of the guys that did the appraisals and made offers for trade ins.

There are a lot of peculiarities which retail purchasers don't understand, like seemingly odd values for certain cars.

As a couple examples, the Mini Cooper has virtually no resale value.

Same with sticks, although the Hispanic folks jump all over them because they're so much cheaper.

On the other hand, a Highlander commands a premium. I got an unusually high offer for my old one that had 155k and a small oil leak that wasn't worth fixing.  They ship them to the Middle East and get a huge premium for them.

 

Regarding Carfax, unfortunately some incidents are never reported to them. He would inspect a vehicle prior to making an offer and often found things that weren't reported, ie frame damage. They can try to hide the welds and you need to know where to look, but that has a huge impact on value. 

Same goes for certain issues like timing belts. If it's approaching the mileage where one is to be replaced, that has a significant impact.

[qwksilver]

Update. I spoke with the Auto Broker and he said the car I want is in high demand and he couldn't do much better than dealers.  So I then began bitching to a buddy of mine who called the broker and he's getting a new Acura ILX under invoice. I'm sure the the broker made a few hundred on that deal but well worth it.

 

I will go back to the drawing board. There is a local car in the wrong color with out the options so we'll see if they want to sell it... Its a Challenger.

Edited April 21, 2021 by qwksilver

[Steptide]

17 minutes ago, qwksilver said:

Update. I spoke with the Auto Broker and he said the car I want is in high demand and he couldn't do much better than dealers.  So I then began bitching to a buddy of mine who called the broker and he's getting a new Acura ILX under invoice. I'm sure the the broker made a few hundred on that deal but well worth it.

 

I will go back to the drawing board. There is a local car in the wrong color with out the options so we'll see if they want to sell it... Its a Challenger.

Are you dead set on a new vehicle? Are you opposed to leasing? I was anti lease for a long time until I started doing it and now I enjoy a new car every 3 years. 

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Are you dead set on a new vehicle? Are you opposed to leasing? I was anti lease for a long time until I started doing it and now I enjoy a new car every 3 years. 

 

I used to lease and loved it.  Life changes and now I've got a 120 mile/day commute, so no more leasing.  I just paid off a new car for the first time in my life and am financing another one, now.  That does feel good to have equity.  But I did enjoy the peace of mind with the warranty of a lease and miss that.

 

Now, my warranty is up in just a bit over a year because I put ~33,000 miles/year on my car.

[qwksilver]

26 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Are you dead set on a new vehicle? Are you opposed to leasing? I was anti lease for a long time until I started doing it and now I enjoy a new car every 3 years. 

I've leased in the past. I prefer to own that way I build some equity. If you buy the right vehicle at the right price the depreciation curve will not "kill you" and it can be cheaper than leasing. Last 2 cars:

New car Paid 30k and sold it for 21k after 40 months = $225 per month

Used car Paid 26k sold it for 24.9 after 16 months = $61 per month

 

No car = 0 per month 😁

Edited April 21, 2021 by qwksilver

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, Steptide said:

Are you dead set on a new vehicle? Are you opposed to leasing? I was anti lease for a long time until I started doing it and now I enjoy a new car every 3 years. 

There are always exceptions, and some cars lease *much better* than others.

 

But as a general rule, leasing is the most expensive way to own a car. 

 

The upside is that you are constantly driving around in a new or nearly-new car, never have to worry about maintenance (everything is always under warranty), and you get the pleasure of experiencing a ton of new cars before you die.

 

It's really a question of what your priorities are.

 

 

 

 

 

[707BillsFan]

On 4/17/2021 at 1:06 PM, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

This is probably an antiquated practice. But I emailed all the area Honda dealers and told them exactly What I was looking for and got price quotes. Then I just went with the best price. They Will still get you on the trade in. But that eliminates the haggling and pressure sales. 

 

I did the exact same thing for my last car. I found a website that had a forum showing what people paid for the vehicle I was looking for (Subaru Outback) and the dealerships they purchased from. I emailed those two dealerships offering excellent pricing and several others in Northern California. Nobody could come near their pricing (1000's less than dealer price...somehow). I then went to my broker friend, who I used to buy my prior cars. He didn't believe the price I was quoted, told me to send him the offer I received. He told me he couldn't find anything near those prices and to buy from them. I was really hoping he wouldn't say that...I hate dealing w/ dealerships & salesmen. Needless to say, I bit the bullet and bought from the dealership. Horrible experience, but I got a screaming deal. They were expecting me to buy all the additional BS they try and sell. I declined everything and the guy just yelled at me, saying why didn't I want to properly care for my new car. 

 

I did try this w/ another brand of vehicle I was considering. My local dealership refused to give me a quote and we went back and forth via email. Their loss. 

 

Long story short, I think it does pay off going this route...if the dealership is a willing partner. 

[qwksilver]

5 hours ago, 707BillsFan said:

 

I did the exact same thing for my last car. I found a website that had a forum showing what people paid for the vehicle I was looking for (Subaru Outback) and the dealerships they purchased from. I emailed those two dealerships offering excellent pricing and several others in Northern California. Nobody could come near their pricing (1000's less than dealer price...somehow). I then went to my broker friend, who I used to buy my prior cars. He didn't believe the price I was quoted, told me to send him the offer I received. He told me he couldn't find anything near those prices and to buy from them. I was really hoping he wouldn't say that...I hate dealing w/ dealerships & salesmen. Needless to say, I bit the bullet and bought from the dealership. Horrible experience, but I got a screaming deal. They were expecting me to buy all the additional BS they try and sell. I declined everything and the guy just yelled at me, saying why didn't I want to properly care for my new car. 

 

I did try this w/ another brand of vehicle I was considering. My local dealership refused to give me a quote and we went back and forth via email. Their loss. 

 

Long story short, I think it does pay off going this route...if the dealership is a willing partner. 

Agreed that you have to find a dealer that is willing to make a little less and make it up on volume. With the world coming out of covid and all the free government cash, I feel there are less of these dealers. Fingers crossed I'm wrong. My broker hinted that this could be an issue. Similar to a housing bubble, you make a nice profit when you sell, but good luck finding a new one....

Edited April 22, 2021 by qwksilver

[LewPort71]

I dont know it is in your neck of the woods, but used car lots here in SWV are ghost towns.  The Toyota dealership used to have 30-40 used vehicles

on the lot.  Today there were 4 when I drove by.  A "mom & pop"  used car place has 8 when they usually have 25-30 used vehicles.

 

As far as leasing goes, Now that Mrs. Lew and I are retired our work driving mileage has gone from a combined 800 miles per week to

less than 80 miles per week.  The mileage factor was the key blockage to us ever leasing a vehicle. Now I would consider it.

 

Good luck to the OP.  As one poster indicated, it really helps to do your homework.  I collected data for 2 months before I bought the Outback in 2018.

 

[Steptide]

On 4/21/2021 at 3:22 PM, Nextmanup said:

There are always exceptions, and some cars lease *much better* than others.

 

But as a general rule, leasing is the most expensive way to own a car. 

 

The upside is that you are constantly driving around in a new or nearly-new car, never have to worry about maintenance (everything is always under warranty), and you get the pleasure of experiencing a ton of new cars before you die.

 

It's really a question of what your priorities are.

 

 

 

 

 

This is true. Leasing is definitely not for everyone, and I agree that leasing in general is a bad investment. Like you said, it depends on priorities. Leasing is kind of a guilty pleasure. Some people gamble, spend tons on liquor, run up their credit cards etc. Leasing for me is my guilty pleasure as crazy as that sounds. I'm not a big drinker, don't gamble, don't really do much, so I actually enjoy reading and keeping up on new cars, and then when lease time comes around, I feel that I'm pretty well educated. Dang, I got old

[Augie]

35 minutes ago, Steptide said:

This is true. Leasing is definitely not for everyone, and I agree that leasing in general is a bad investment. Like you said, it depends on priorities. Leasing is kind of a guilty pleasure. Some people gamble, spend tons on liquor, run up their credit cards etc. Leasing for me is my guilty pleasure as crazy as that sounds. I'm not a big drinker, don't gamble, don't really do much, so I actually enjoy reading and keeping up on new cars, and then when lease time comes around, I feel that I'm pretty well educated. Dang, I got old

 

I worked with a guy who leased a nice Mercedes. He was putting too many miles on and realized it was cheaper to ALSO lease a Camry to cut down on  the Benz miles.  Not sounding like a great deal!  LOL

 

My SIL has a long time BF who is fairly frugal about most things. Smart guy, but he LOVES his cars. My BIL was with him a couple weeks ago for the niece’s wedding (I didn’t make the cut for mini-wedding in PA due to restrictions, fine with me). The BIL wanted to take his self driving BMW out for a ride. BIL said it was so smooth he wanted to feel it at a higher speeds. Was told it has built in radar detection, go as fast as you want. On a quiet stretch of highway he took it up to 102 mph - with no hands!  THAT would freak me out! 

[qwksilver]

20 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I worked with a guy who leased a nice Mercedes. He was putting too many miles on and realized it was cheaper to ALSO lease a Camry to cut down on  the Benz miles.  Not sounding like a great deal!  LOL

 

My SIL has a long time BF who is fairly frugal about most things. Smart guy, but he LOVES his cars. My BIL was with him a couple weeks ago for the niece’s wedding (I didn’t make the cut for mini-wedding in PA due to restrictions, fine with me). The BIL wanted to take his self driving BMW out for a ride. BIL said it was so smooth he wanted to feel it at a higher speeds. Was told it has built in radar detection, go as fast as you want. On a quiet stretch of highway he took it up to 102 mph - with no hands!  THAT would freak me out! 

I'm a big believer in that we humans rely on computers/tech for just about everything. Driving might be the last thing I give up to a chip.

 

Update my good friend (using an auto broker) got his new ILX delivered to his front door, $1400 under sticker and he never talked to this dealer.

[LeviF]

New car dealers are moving more and more towards the "store" model.  There are some holdouts still but many will not negotiate the sticker on the car without you sticking a competing offer in their face.  Trading in sucks for the reasons already noted upthread.  If you're buying a new car your best bet is to just find out exactly (down to the color, trim, extras) what you want and then look for that car specifically.  Then find the best deal and see if other dealers will beat it.  Rinse and repeat until you get a bunch of "no" then pull the trigger.  The brokers essentially do this for you but they have the connections and pull to fast-track the process.

 

There's more wiggle room with used cars because, also as noted upthread, they absolutely murder people on the trade-ins.  I got my CPO Impala, that was advertised at $17k, out the door for $14.5k because it had been sitting on the lot for nearly a month and I was willing to drive 300 miles for a better deal if necessary.

[zevo]

19 minutes ago, LeviF91 said:

New car dealers are moving more and more towards the "store" model.  There are some holdouts still but many will not negotiate the sticker on the car without you sticking a competing offer in their face.  Trading in sucks for the reasons already noted upthread.  If you're buying a new car your best bet is to just find out exactly (down to the color, trim, extras) what you want and then look for that car specifically.  Then find the best deal and see if other dealers will beat it.  Rinse and repeat until you get a bunch of "no" then pull the trigger.  The brokers essentially do this for you but they have the connections and pull to fast-track the process.

 

There's more wiggle room with used cars because, also as noted upthread, they absolutely murder people on the trade-ins.  I got my CPO Impala, that was advertised at $17k, out the door for $14.5k because it had been sitting on the lot for nearly a month and I was willing to drive 300 miles for a better deal if necessary.

Depends on what you own. I purchased a new 2019 4 runner pro at the end of 2019. I traded it in last month and received 1800$ more than i paid for it.