Something that I worry about...would we see a Wentz like regression in Allen if Daboll leaves?

[without a drought]

People need to stop worrying about things that haven't and probably won't happen and just enjoy this season.

 

I wasn't expecting so many threads about what people are worrying about or might need to in the future while the Bills are 8-3, winning the division, going to the playoffs and have finally realized it's a passing league.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

A sampling of different sources where Ken Dorsey's name is always mentioned in the same breath as Daboll when discussing reasons for Allen's continued development/improvement--it seems we have sufficient support in place (together with what we assume would be a decent replacement hire for OC in the event Dabs departs):

 

https://arizonasports.com/story/2448911/as-bills-game-showcases-new-nfl-cardinals-defense-hopes-to-rebound/?show=comments

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/jim-kubiak-josh-allen-keeps-getting-better-with-best-bills-throw-yet/article_5fc34246-fc48-11ea-af5c-7b31e44dad80.html

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2020/10/19/21522303/josh-allen-time-to-believe-buffalo-bills-afc-east-nfl-2020

 

Not sure if Wentz has had similar QB coach continuity or not during his regression outside of Reich leaving?

 

He did not.  Defillipo left to take an OC position.  That said, he's not making a great advertisement for himself as the Bears QB coach this year.

[JohnNord]

5 hours ago, Kwai San said:

 

I gotta admit I almost threw up when I read that one......please god no Gase, for the love of god please no.

Haha I just mean I don’t see them bringing in a coach who will install a brand new offense.  I think they promote Dorsey

[Buffalo Junction]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Waitaminnut here, we're talking about how badly Wentz is regressed with Pederson as both coach and OC, and you feel McDermott should "not resist" an opportunity to bring him here?  RESIST!  RESIST!

 

Would not “should”. McD and Beane like nepotism.... All of those guys in my post know each other, and most worked together for years. With that in mind, I’m sure they’ll go through all of any prospective OC’s calls and look at all the finite details. I’m sure McD will have a better idea after going through that tape about why Wentz has regressed than any of us. I mean, he knows that offensive system almost as well as he knows his own defense. Who knows though. McD has been around a long time, and could easily just promote Dorsey and bring in a guy like a Norv  Turner to some specialist role as a go to for Dorsey to bounce ideas off of. 
 

I’m not gonna stress about it until it happens. Particularly with Pederson as Wentz’s regression will have more light shes on it after the season. For all we know he ignored practicing fundamentals all offseason and just spent time with his newborn. 🤷‍♂️

[Saint Doug]

8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

One thing is clear from the past 2 days... This board LOVES over-valuing Frank Reich and what he did as "OC" in Philly.

 

I totally understand it, given his history in Buffalo. But crediting him as the main reason for the Eagles success is just over-blowing it.

Not only this, but people equally credit Daboll for Allen’s success as well. Who exactly has Daboll developed prior to Allen? He bounced around various bottom feeders as OC with little success before retreating to Alabama. I would attribute Allen’s success as: 10% Daboll, 20% Palmer, 20% better surrounding talent (Beane), and 50% Allen himself. The guy has a compete level off the charts. He’ll be fine without Daboll. 

[The Jokeman]

8 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

I mentioned this elsewhere - but I think they'd try and secure Mike Shula.  I'm sure people would hate another carolina connection, but hes a QB coach currently and its a promotion.  He did good things with Cam, and has some Erhardt-Perkins experience.  Knowing you're working with McD and Beane - as well as allen and the talent on offense - is rather appealing as an OC gig.

I think we go in-house and promote Ken Dorsey who we interviewed the same year we added Daboll. Now if that does happen we better also have a QB coach as hate when OC's have both jobs.

[aristocrat]

If anything he gets better. I’m not a huge daboll believer. 

[ganesh]

The only way you have to solve this is to build continuity within the organization like the Steelers did in the early 2000s....When their OCs took HC job, their "Next Man Up"  were ready to stream roll and they did it successfully.

 

Mularkey

Wisenhunt

Ariens

[78thealltimegreat]

10 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Watching Wentz looking absolutely clueless this year and badly regressing makes me really wonder...how much was Reich responsible for his successes? It seems like he started downhill once Reich left and this year he has hit rock bottom...he may no longer be a starting caliber QB in this league.

 

And that is what I worry about with Allen a little bit...Daboll has been instrumental to his success and maturation into a star for us...how much would Allen regress(if at all) if Daboll leaves for a HC coaching job this offseason.  There are expected to be a lot of opening, more so than any other year in recent memory perhaps, and Daboll has been a hot name for a year or two now.

None Josh is a unique player and any offensive coordinator will be thrilled to be here and more then happy to help Josh and actually give the Bills a competent running game something Daboll hasn’t done 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, Man with No Name said:

this is probably wishful thinking. head coaching opps might be once in a lifetime. you are only one terrible season away from no longer being considered a shining candidate. Maybe he doesn't leave for a sh!t job like the Jets or Detroit, but he will leave if given the chance at a promising opportunity. 

 

i think

 

I agree.  Daboll seems to like being Josh Allen's sculptor.  I don't think he'll jump at any job.  But there are only 32 head coaching jobs in the league, and all Daboll's pressers this season come across to me as PR spots for his personal coaching philosophy.  I think he wants one.

FWIW, this thread got me thinking and I put up a post inspired by it (about Josh Allen, not Carson Wentz or theoretical future regression, so it's in its own thread)

 

[Coach Tuesday]

10 hours ago, BillsVet said:

Stop worrying and enjoy the season. 

Now THIS is what I call personal growth!

[BillsVet]

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Now THIS is what I call personal growth!

 

We get older.  That's all I got.  LOL. 

[HappyDays]

12 hours ago, matter2003 said:

And that is what I worry about with Allen a little bit...

 

Really? It isn't something that's crossed my mind even once. I was worried before the season that Allen wouldn't show any growth. Now that he's shown clear progress every single year 3 years in a row I'm not worried about him suddenly regressing. It could happen but there's no reason to believe it will.

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

OK, I'm nuts.  

 

We figured. 😁

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

The only way you have to solve this is to build continuity within the organization like the Steelers did in the early 2000s....When their OCs took HC job, their "Next Man Up"  were ready to stream roll and they did it successfully.

 

Mularkey

Wisenhunt

Ariens

 

Think that is exactly what McDermott wants to do. Don't rule out Chad Hall being the Bills OC at some point but I think Dorsey is the first cab on the rank.

[Punching Bag]

17 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Exactly this, IMO.

 

Not a lot of Wentz's decline has been on him.  His current situation isn't a hell of a lot better than Darnold's right now.

 

 

Maybe Eagles and JEST should swap QBs and give each a 2nd chance.

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He did not.  Defillipo left to take an OC position.  That said, he's not making a great advertisement for himself as the Bears QB coach this year.

 

DeFilippo is trash. He got a lot of hype that year as a QB coach for Wentz and nearly managed to ride it to a Head Coaching job. He has been hired as an NFL OC on three occasions and has never seen a second season (fired at the end of his first year twice and in season once). People might say "ah well he could still be a good Quarterbacks coach..." well the history there isn't great either.... he was in Oakland where their QBs suck and where when Derek Carr got Todd Downing (remember him? He was the QB coach Marrone hired here in 2014 to develop EJ further.....) his sophomore season there was a quote from Carr about how Downing really brought a much higher degree of detail than his predecessor. Then of course there is his work with Mitch and Nick Foles to marvel at...…  Not a good track record.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

*

 

[TonyBeets]

It baffles me that there are people that feel as if the problem in Philly is Wentz.  They have a practice squad of an offense.  That front office needs to be fired.

[Nihilarian]

In a word, NO!

 

Brian Daboll has called plays in Buffalo like he has had a veteran QB behind center since day one, and he hasn't. He had a rookie with a bad O line, bad receiver corps that first season. Allen also had no real QB coach and no veteran QB early on to learn the NFL ropes with. 

 

Like Kirk Cousins told him, learning to play QB in the NFL is like drinking from a fire hose. Allen has had a pretty rough go as the starting QB for Buffalo and is learning as he goes. Daboll is also learning as he goes and while that Bills offense is in the top 10 this season i feel it is more because of Josh Allen more so than Daboll. 

 

Allen has had 8 fourth quarter comebacks and 11 game winning drives in his career. 

 

Daboll should have been setting up his offense with the run game, short passing game first to help Allen gain confidence. Instead the 2018 Buffalo Bills led the NFL in deep pass attempts. Once Daboll saw what Allen could do once the pocket broke down and he needed to scramble. Then Daboll put in designed QB run plays. 

 

Let's not forget that this same NFL offensive brain trust thought that Nathan Peterman should start the 2018 season. Peterman was sacked 3x, went 5 of 18 for 24 yards with 2 INTs before he was benched in the 3rd quarter against Baltimore. A QB rating of 0.0. 

 

If anything, I think Josh Allen is carrying Brian Daboll. Yes, sometimes Daboll has good game plans and sometimes he calls good games. Although there are still times where I think to myself this man doesn't know what he is doing. The Titans game this year!... and asking Allen to throw 46 times while asking the Bills RB's to rush 18 times. Daboll just forgets the run game and asks Allen to carry the game. 

 

The Chiefs game and other games this season bring to mind that Daboll still doesn't have an answer for when Allen is under constant pressure or duress. This needs to be corrected asap as the Bills face the Steelers in two weeks and they have the #1 defense in points allowed, #3 in yards allowed. TJ Watt in #1 in the NFL in sacks with 11.0. The Steelers also lead the NFL in turnovers with a +12, 16 INTs. 

 

Sometimes the run game works, Patriots, Chargers and sometimes it doesn't. Until this last game against the Chargers the Bills were 27th in the NFL in rushing. If the Bills can get that run game going for the rest of the year like they did against the Chargers then they have a solid shot at a playoff win. Daboll also needs to figure better protection schemes and plays that make the opposing defense pay for blitzing Allen. 

 

Brian Daboll is learning and growing as an NFL OC. And although he has that Patriots playbook, he is not as good as McDaniel's calling plays, nor Reid, nor Shanahan, Payton, McVay, Reich, LaFleur, and Kingsbury, Stefanski, Gruden, Kubiak. 

[teef]

the things bills fans think about.