Eagles HC Pederson on the hot seat with job status

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said:

There's a good video on the youtube about the demise of Wentz and the Eagles.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD2qmLoMh4k&t=1085s

Thanks for the link to those advertisements.  

[billsfan89]

8 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said:

There's a good video on the youtube about the demise of Wentz and the Eagles.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD2qmLoMh4k&t=1085s

 

It isn't that complicated their Oline got old and their reciving corps best player (Jeffery) got hurt and there wasn't much behind him. Not that complicated 

[JGMcD2]

16 minutes ago, mannc said:

With all due respect, you sound like Brian Griese.  Wentz is completely shot.  He can’t process what’s in front of him and can’t get the ball to open receivers (yes, there are plenty of those).  The o-line and WRs aren’t great, but they aren’t any worse than what Herbert has to work with, and they are miles better than what Allen had in 2018. If Pederson deserves criticism, it’s for not playing Hurts.

They’re MUCH worse that what Justin Hebert has... Hunter Henry, Mike Williams, Keenan Allen? 
 

Wentz has primarily been throwing to Greg Ward, Travis Fulgham and Richard Rodgers this year. Miles Sanders has missed time too. Only one of his offensive lineman have played in over 10 games. 

[BruceVilanch]

16 minutes ago, mannc said:

Thanks for the link to those advertisements.  

oh dang, sorry wrong link, took it down.

 

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

They’re MUCH worse that what Justin Hebert has... Hunter Henry, Mike Williams, Keenan Allen? 
 

Wentz has primarily been throwing to Greg Ward, Travis Fulgham and Richard Rodgers this year. Miles Sanders has missed time too. Only one of his offensive lineman have played in over 10 games. 

That’s not who they’ve had for much of the season.  Herbert put up 300 yard games throwing to mostly UDFAs.  And the LA online is worse than philly’s.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

36 minutes ago, mannc said:

With all due respect, you sound like Brian Griese.  Wentz is completely shot.  He can’t process what’s in front of him and can’t get the ball to open receivers (yes, there are plenty of those).  The o-line and WRs aren’t great, but they aren’t any worse than what Herbert has to work with, and they are miles better than what Allen had in 2018. If Pederson deserves criticism, it’s for not playing Hurts.

 

Mind showing me those open receivers?  3 plays, anywhere - youtube clip, screen capture of Gamepass - wherever.

 

As for the rest, SMH.  Yes, Herbert has a better O-line than the aging injured hulks Wentz sees before him, and much better WR in Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, and Guyton than Fulgham, Rodgers, Jalen Reagor and Greg Ward.  Alshon Jeffrey is legit, but he's hurt and has been out most of the season.  I'll give you Zach Ertz and Goedert over Hunter Henry at TE, but Goedert was out on IR and 2 weeks before he came back Ertz went on IR.

 

9 minutes ago, mannc said:

That’s not who they’ve had for much of the season.  Herbert put up 300 yard games throwing to mostly UDFAs.  And the LA online is worse than philly’s.  

 

Keenan Allen has played every game this season. 

Mike Williams has missed one game

Hunter Henry has played every game

 

These are the top 3 receivers on the Chargers this year.  Look it up.  "throwing to mostly UDFA"  Give. Me. A. Break.

 

If you can't tell two top receivers and a top TE from UDFA, I don't think we need to delve into your OL evaluation.

 

[JGMcD2]

12 minutes ago, mannc said:

That’s not who they’ve had for much of the season.  Herbert put up 300 yard games throwing to mostly UDFAs.  And the LA online is worse than philly’s.  

Hunter Henry and Keenan Allen have played in all 11 games. Mike Williams 10/11 games. 
 

Williams averages ~ 6 targets a game.

 

Allen averages ~ 11 targets a game. 
 

Henry averages ~ 7 targets per game. 
 

Herbert averages 40 attempts per game and 60% of them are in the direction of Williams, Allen, Henry. 
 

Where exactly are you getting your information from? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Hunter Henry and Keenan Allen have played in all 11 games. Mike Williams 10/11 games. 
 

Williams averages ~ 6 targets a game.

Allen averages ~ 11 targets a game. 
Henry averages ~ 7 targets per game. 
 

Herbert averages 40 attempts per game and 60% of them are in the direction of Williams, Allen, Henry. 
 

Where exactly are you getting your information from? 

 

Put a little more out there - when healthy (5 games) Ekelar collects 6.  Kellen Ballage (he's pretty good) collects 6.  Joshua Kelley, 4th round rookie RB, gets 2 or 3.

 

Jalen Guyton is the only UDFA I see who's getting significant targets.  He gets about 3 targets/game.

 

Far cry from "throwing to mostly UDFA"

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Put a little more out there - when healthy (5 games) Ekelar collects 6.  Kellen Ballage (he's pretty good) collects 6.  Joshua Kelley, 4th round rookie RB, gets 2 or 3.

 

Jalen Guyton is the only UDFA I see who's getting significant targets.  He gets about 3 targets/game.

 

Far cry from "throwing to mostly UDFA"

Wellllll technically Austin Ekeler falls in the UDFA bucket... UDFA in 2017. 😉

[Zerovoltz]

24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Mind showing me those open receivers?  3 plays, anywhere - youtube clip, screen capture of Gamepass - wherever.

 

As for the rest, SMH.  Yes, Herbert has a better O-line than the aging injured hulks Wentz sees before him, and much better WR in Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, and Guyton than Fulgham, Rodgers, Jalen Reagor and Greg Ward.  Alshon Jeffrey is legit, but he's hurt and has been out most of the season.  I'll give you Zach Ertz and Goedert over Hunter Henry at TE, but Goedert was out on IR and 2 weeks before he came back Ertz went on IR.

 

 

Keenan Allen has played every game this season. 

Mike Williams has missed one game

Hunter Henry has played every game

 

These are the top 3 receivers on the Chargers this year.  Look it up.  "throwing to mostly UDFA"  Give. Me. A. Break.

 

If you can't tell two top receivers and a top TE from UDFA, I don't think we need to delve into your OL evaluation.

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Wellllll technically Austin Ekeler falls in the UDFA bucket... UDFA in 2017. 😉

 

OK, I'll grant that.  But I think the implication was "throwing to newbies with no track record in the league" vs. "throwing to established players with clear talent"

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

 

 

Fair.   I think Wentz has had some hero-ball mentality take hold of him where he won't take the short stuff and move the chains.  And in that second clip, Wentz is hit right after he throws.  But he does clearly overlook two receivers he has time to hit. 

 

So how common is that, though?

[mannc]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Mind showing me those open receivers?  3 plays, anywhere - youtube clip, screen capture of Gamepass - wherever.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by mannc

[Big C]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

He won them a SB.  Who are they going to replace him with who is better?

By this logic the Packers should not have fired Mike McCarthy. 

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Put a little more out there - when healthy (5 games) Ekelar collects 6.  Kellen Ballage (he's pretty good) collects 6.  Joshua Kelley, 4th round rookie RB, gets 2 or 3.

 

Jalen Guyton is the only UDFA I see who's getting significant targets.  He gets about 3 targets/game.

 

Far cry from "throwing to mostly UDFA"

Against Tampa in week 4, Herbert threw TD passes to three different UDFAs.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by mannc

[Big C]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair.   I think Wentz has had some hero-ball mentality take hold of him where he won't take the short stuff and move the chains.  And in that second clip, Wentz is hit right after he throws.  But he does clearly overlook two receivers he has time to hit. 

 

So how common is that, though?

It is easy to remember that Wentz had that MVP season and has been battling through injuries, both to himself and his team, and think that he shouldn’t be shouldering so much of the blame. 
 

But the dude looks clueless out there. No pocket presence, missing open receivers (this has been an issue all season), just looking lost and defeated out there. 

[Zerovoltz]

I'm not sure why Owners/GM's always go after the hot Coordinator......I mean...I understand why....but really as a HC, you need a smart football guy who is a leader of men.  You have to know what you want to do and know how to make that happen.  Too many coordinators don't have that kind of personality or force of will along with the credibility that comes with being a successful coordinator.

 

In Pederson's case....that magical super bowl came too soon/easy if you can udnerstand what I mean.....I think he might have gotten a little too full of himself and isn't quite sure what do now that there are problems.....the big one being his QB.....and that QB's insane cap number.

 

As far as the Andy Ried tree.....Matt Nagy had the one good year....with a stud D, and Trubisky playing OK.  He hasn't been able to do much else.....Pederson....won the SB...but struggling now...because QB.

 

In Nagy's case....the dude was out there publicly saying he wanted to draft Trubisky and they he could coach him up....

 

If you are looking at Bienemy as HC....I wouldn't really go into an interview and ask him if he can replicate what KC does...I'd ask him if he could lead a staff and a roster...competently....could he manage the personalities AND the clock.

 

As a Chiefs fan, I wouldn't want to see Bienemy in Houston and especially not in LA if they fire Lynn. I think EB knows what it looks like to have a high end QB and how that can work and how to build a team around that.

 

If I were a HC candidate....Jobs I would not want.  Detroit - Philly - Chicago.  No QB, and not much hope that you'd get one.  

[machine gun kelly]

Zero, with those teams, I would add the Jets and Philly if the coach is fired.  The Jets owners would need to give a lengthy contract to anyone of substance as. They are in a long term rebuild, and Philly is so far over the cap, and Wentz has regressed with an aging team.  It’s why I just don’t see a high end talent who is able to take his pick, would to you’re point Zero, want Houston, or LA.  A head coach is so far ahead when they have a solid QB,and cap space especially next year with. The cap almost assured dropping to $175 mil.

[Bill from NYC]

12 hours ago, Doc said:

He won them a SB.  Who are they going to replace him with who is better?

I dunno, is Dick Jauron still out there?

[SoTier]

14 hours ago, foreboding said:

They won't fire him, if they do he's probably a HC somewhere else, this year. I think they have a talent problem (maybe QB) and he is not the GM and it wasn't that long ago he was toast of the league.

 

There's a serious lack of talent on the Eagles, especially on the offense.  They simply haven't drafted very well in the last 5 or 6 years.  For example, Wentz is their only Pro Bowler that they've drafted during that period.   Their OL, once the best in the league, gave a remarkable facsimile of some of the Bills' worst OLs from the Jauron era against the Seahawks. 

 

I think the FO needs to be held at least if not more responsible for the Eagles failures as Pederson.

[Greg S]

4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Zero, with those teams, I would add the Jets and Philly if the coach is fired.  The Jets owners would need to give a lengthy contract to anyone of substance as. They are in a long term rebuild, and Philly is so far over the cap, and Wentz has regressed with an aging team.  It’s why I just don’t see a high end talent who is able to take his pick, would to you’re point Zero, want Houston, or LA.  A head coach is so far ahead when they have a solid QB,and cap space especially next year with. The cap almost assured dropping to $175 mil.

 

I think the Jets rebuild can be a short one. They most likely are getting Trevor #1, they also have a lot of picks including multiple in the 1st and 2nd rounds over the next few drafts. If they can find the right coach (BIG IF) then they could do what Miami is doing right now. Of course the elephant in the room with them is Woody and Chris. Some of JD picks from last years draft are playing well (Becton, Mims) as they are nice building blocks to have. They wont be a Super Bowl contender soon but they can certainly become a respectable team and compete for a playoff spot within 2 years.

[DCbillsfan]

12 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

I am thinking Reich was a behind the scenes driver of that SB run.

I believe this is it.  Wentz had a great year before getting hurt and in comes Foles and they don't miss a beat.  They win the Super Bowl.  Reich leaves and both Wentz and Foles have not looked the same since.  Yes, Foles moved onto Jax and now is with Da Bears.

 

Two things concern me as a Bills fan:  how long can Mahomes play at this level of play and Frank Reich getting a stud young qb.

Edited December 2, 2020 by DCbillsfan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

6 hours ago, mannc said:

Against Tampa in week 4, Herbert threw TD passes to three different UDFAs.

 

One game and 3 passes is a far cry from "throwing mostly to UDFA".   You may have good points about failing to throw to open WR as someone brought up above.  Just ack and take the "L" on this one.

 

BTW, Daboll does similar things - try to scheme open guys whom the D "forgets about" in the red zone by "selling it" that they're blocking then BOOM TD. 

 

8 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

 

 

Brett Kollsman (The Film Room) whom I really like aside from his tacky advertising, just did a piece on Carson Wentz.

 

It's a cautionary tale for us Bills fans because Allen does similar things at times (overlook the open guys underneath to force the ball long to his "money" guys. Early in the season especially, we got a lot of "wow!" throws into the "danger zone".  Sometimes those hit, sometimes they miss and the difference is the number of quality WR spreading the field (3 vs 1 or 2) to "de risk" those throws.

 

I could see Allen fading into Wentz if he's not handled correctly. 😬😱  Don't shoot me peeps - I have a lot of faith in Daboll and Dorsey to handle him correctly.  But what if they disappeared and were replaced by someone who just didn't know how to teach and reach him?

 

Moral of the story, You can't have a QB who always does one or the other.

[foreboding]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

There's a serious lack of talent on the Eagles, especially on the offense.  They simply haven't drafted very well in the last 5 or 6 years.  For example, Wentz is their only Pro Bowler that they've drafted during that period.   Their OL, once the best in the league, gave a remarkable facsimile of some of the Bills' worst OLs from the Jauron era against the Seahawks. 

 

I think the FO needs to be held at least if not more responsible for the Eagles failures as Pederson.

Yep. Pederson wouldn't last a day on the job market, Lurie has to know that. I think the GM is as good as gone. Pederson won them a SB in 2017 and that afterglow hasn't completely faded.

Edited December 2, 2020 by foreboding

[Mr. WEO]

16 hours ago, foreboding said:

They won't fire him, if they do he's probably a HC somewhere else, this year. I think they have a talent problem (maybe QB) and he is not the GM and it wasn't that long ago he was toast of the league.

 

Dick Jauron was COTY once....

 

16 hours ago, Doc said:

He won them a SB.  Who are they going to replace him with who is better?

 

Nick Foles ain't walking through that door tomorrow.

[foreboding]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Dick Jauron was COTY once....

 

 

Nick Foles ain't walking through that door tomorrow.

Did Jauron win a SB, over the Pats?

And no, as we well know QBs don't grow on trees, firing coaches for it is a great way to get in the toilet circle.

Edited December 2, 2020 by foreboding

[BuffaloRebound]

Wow.  Those Baldinger film breakdowns are revealing.  Wentz seems like your typical million dollar physical tool guy with a 5 cent brain.  You also get the feeling that his teammates hate him.  Bet his coach does too.  

[Livinginthepast]

21 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Wow.  Those Baldinger film breakdowns are revealing.  Wentz seems like your typical million dollar physical tool guy with a 5 cent brain.  You also get the feeling that his teammates hate him.  Bet his coach does too.  

RJ was the same here. Pederson much like Wade and Gregg Williams is probably mystified why none of the physical tools or potential of the QB is panning out into elite level performances. There are flashes of it here and there but a whole lot of garbage in between.    Just like RJ, Pederson will have to cut Wentz loose very soon or he will go down with that sinking ship.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

17 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

Schwartz and mcd would be a dream combo 

??

 

the idiot who motivated DK to drop 170 on his defense by calling him no “Calvin Johnson”? No thanks.
 

One good year in Buffalo (Leslie has 2) with much better players and a different scheme that would require a roster overhaul. 
 

Not an upgrade 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[dave mcbride]

20 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Just read an article in today's BN stating the issue is Rosen and Lurie needs to fire him first.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/football/jeffrey-lurie-is-the-only-person-who-can-fix-the-eagles-fixing-his-front-office/article_11612d57-4f14-56cf-81e2-c84908390d2c.html

'If Lurie wants to enjoy watching his team again, he should look at Howie Roseman and his front office and consider one thing. Apart from one magical season, the last 10 years in Eagles history have been marked by mediocrity and dysfunction. There has been only one constant throughout. It isn't the quarterback. And it isn't the coach."

 

All I can think of: "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, foreboding said:

Did Jauron win a SB, over the Pats?

And no, as we well know QBs don't grow on trees, firing coaches for it is a great way to get in the toilet circle.

 

Nope, but Coughlin did.  Maybe he'll get a few calls?  Dan Quinn lost a close one to NE in the SB--he's available, no?  He was available a few years later..

 

Bums like Wentz grow on trees. 

 

What's "the toilet cycle"?

[foreboding]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Nope, but Coughlin did.  Maybe he'll get a few calls?  Dan Quinn lost a close one to NE in the SB--he's available, no?  He was available a few years later..

 

Bums like Wentz grow on trees. 

 

What's "the toilet cycle"?

Five years later (after the last SB victory, Coughlin resigned. He was old and was made GM in Jax. So, yeah, SB winning coaches do get nabbed, esp those with recent wins. You honestly think Pederson would be out a job? Oh yeah, Dan lost, historically.

 

Circle, not cycle, as in flush.

 

Wentz' grow on trees? Well, maybe, we will have to wait on that one, it certainly didn't appear that way last year.

[mannc]

7 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

I think the Jets rebuild can be a short one. They most likely are getting Trevor #1, they also have a lot of picks including multiple in the 1st and 2nd rounds over the next few drafts. If they can find the right coach (BIG IF) then they could do what Miami is doing right now. Of course the elephant in the room with them is Woody and Chris. Some of JD picks from last years draft are playing well (Becton, Mims) as they are nice building blocks to have. They wont be a Super Bowl contender soon but they can certainly become a respectable team and compete for a playoff spot within 2 years.

Definitely.  The Jets had a very nice draft this year.  If he stays healthy, Becton is going to be a perennial All-Pro. Great building block.  Add Lawrence and a bunch of other picks in the 2021 draft (including whatever they can fleece from someone for Darnold) and they’ve got instant respectability.  Just need the right coach...

[C.Biscuit97]

I know you get paid a lot of money but coaching is absolutely insane. Dude wins a SB and is already in the hot seat? They have garbage skills players and a bad oline.  
 

I don’t think he’s crazy but this whole idea of just firing people for the sake of firing is stupid. 

[shoshin]

He'd be a good pickup as OC when Daboll leaves. 

[Mr. WEO]

17 hours ago, foreboding said:

Five years later (after the last SB victory, Coughlin resigned. He was old and was made GM in Jax. So, yeah, SB winning coaches do get nabbed, esp those with recent wins. You honestly think Pederson would be out a job? Oh yeah, Dan lost, historically.

 

Circle, not cycle, as in flush.

 

Wentz' grow on trees? Well, maybe, we will have to wait on that one, it certainly didn't appear that way last year.

 

Coughlin was fired.  https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tom-coughlin-admits-that-the-giants-forced-him-out-as-coach/

 

It is certainly possible Pederson will be out of a job....in Philly.

 

Maybe Wentz has a chance, but not with this coaching staff.

[prissythecat]

Doug Pederson's record with the Eagles stands at 41-33 over 5 seasons.   Seems a bit premature to have him on the hot seat especially since the roster is a mess right now.

 

It was pointed out by a few on here that the Eagles had mortgaged long term for short term with the roster moves they made a couple of seasons back.   So what we are seeing is the chickens coming home to roost .   But hey,  superbowl....

Edited December 3, 2020 by prissythecat
fix grammar

[GunnerBill]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 4:42 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Mind showing me those open receivers?  3 plays, anywhere - youtube clip, screen capture of Gamepass - wherever.

 

 

 

I've put a screen grab from Gamepass on the other thread the "worry Allen ends up like Wentz thread." It's only one but I can go back and do some others from that game the other night when I get time if people think it is necessary to make the point. Wentz is not playing Quarterback well and it is the routine stuff he is missing pretty.... errrr….. routinely.

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 5:18 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair.   I think Wentz has had some hero-ball mentality take hold of him where he won't take the short stuff and move the chains.  And in that second clip, Wentz is hit right after he throws.  But he does clearly overlook two receivers he has time to hit. 

 

So how common is that, though?

 

It's really common. There are multiple plays every Eagles game.  This is what I am saying to people.... yes they have problems up front, yes the receiving corps is not great.... they there is a lot of this that is just on Carson Wentz. He ain't playing well enough.

[GunnerBill]

On 12/2/2020 at 5:11 AM, Zerovoltz said:

 

 

 

The second of those Baldy clips is the one that was most egregious to me and the one I had picked out and screenshotted in the other thread. Glad it is not just me! Seriously this is every week. Wentz is making these mistakes week in week out, game in game out. Nobody is saying he has a good cast. Nobody is saying his situation is ideal. But man he himself is just playing badly. And there is no getting around it. Year 5 in the NFL and you are missing some of these absolute basic reads. It is scary bad Quarterback play.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I've put a screen grab from Gamepass on the other thread the "worry Allen ends up like Wentz thread." It's only one but I can go back and do some others from that game the other night when I get time if people think it is necessary to make the point. Wentz is not playing Quarterback well and it is the routine stuff he is missing pretty.... errrr….. routinely.

 

It's really common. There are multiple plays every Eagles game.  This is what I am saying to people.... yes they have problems up front, yes the receiving corps is not great.... they there is a lot of this that is just on Carson Wentz. He ain't playing well enough.

 

Yes, between you and the Baldy's Breakdowns linked above then Kollman (linked above but here), I've changed my view.  It's quite true that the Eagles OL is poor and that Wentz doesn't have the high-quality WR he has had when successful.

 

But I've seen the point that you and others are also quite correct that Wentz has outlets and open WR short that give him plays he simply isn't taking.  His cast has changed and he's failed to adapt.

 

It inspired me to make that "what's in your head?" post about Josh because listening to Kollman's breakdown Josh does have some of the same tendencies and I don't want to see him get entrenched in that "push ball down field at all costs" habit.