Flores: Tua benched, not hurt

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, dorquemada said:

 

yeah there's an utterly ridiculous article on ESPN+

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/30343834/ranking-nfl-franchise-quarterbacks-how-2017-2021-draft-classes-stack-why-trevor-lawrence-high-list

 

The net is that they have TREVOR LAWRENCE ranked #2 behind Patrick Mahomes for NFL franchise QBs.  A guy who hasnt played a down in the NFL, and has the benefit of playing on a stacked college team is going to be better than Josh Allen.  Allen is #7 on this dumb list for what it's worth

 

 

As a college football fanatic I would also point out that Lawrence doesn't exactly play against a lot of elite teams.  In last years Championship game he looked pretty ordinary going up against those future NFL players on LSU's defense.

 

 

 

 

[Logic]

I'm late to this thread, but I wanted to say this:

I think Flores made a poor decision on Sunday.

I hate -- absolutely HATE -- when coaches pull young QBs too early or too often. I am of the opinion that it absolutely DOES hinder their development.

Flores needed to decide whether he wanted to go for the playoffs this season or get Tua his reps this season. Once he decided, he should have stuck with that choice. Yanking a young QB in a close game, three games into his NFL career, is NOT a good thing to do. How is the kid supposed to grow from the type of adversity he was facing Sunday? How is he supposed to learn to adapt to and overcome defenses like the one he was facing Sunday? 

I am so, so glad that the Bills didn't pull this crap with Allen. I'm glad they let him learn through his mistakes and are now reaping the benefits. I like Brian Flores a lot, I think he's a great coach, and I think the Dolphins likely have a bright future under him. But the decision to pull Tua was a bad one, and I stand by that.

[whatdrought]

Flores bought the hype that the dolphins were contenders after they won some fluky games. First sign of trouble and he panics. 

[prissythecat]

34 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Flores bought the hype that the dolphins were elite after they won some fluky games. First sign of trouble and he panics. 

 

 

Fixed that a little for you.  He was reading some posts from  a high IQ guy using advanced stats.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, dorquemada said:

 

yeah there's an utterly ridiculous article on ESPN+

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/30343834/ranking-nfl-franchise-quarterbacks-how-2017-2021-draft-classes-stack-why-trevor-lawrence-high-list

 

The net is that they have TREVOR LAWRENCE ranked #2 behind Patrick Mahomes for NFL franchise QBs.  A guy who hasnt played a down in the NFL, and has the benefit of playing on a stacked college team is going to be better than Josh Allen.  Allen is #7 on this dumb list for what it's worth

 

 

Fortunately or unfortunately, it requires me to subscribe.  Would you be willing to give us a synopsis?

 

Every year experts seem to project rookies who have never played high onto lists of top QBs.  It seems to work about as well as one might expect

 

[Figster]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

I'm late to this thread, but I wanted to say this:

I think Flores made a poor decision on Sunday.

I hate -- absolutely HATE -- when coaches pull young QBs too early or too often. I am of the opinion that it absolutely DOES hinder their development.

Flores needed to decide whether he wanted to go for the playoffs this season or get Tua his reps this season. Once he decided, he should have stuck with that choice. Yanking a young QB in a close game, three games into his NFL career, is NOT a good thing to do. How is the kid supposed to grow from the type of adversity he was facing Sunday? How is he supposed to learn to adapt to and overcome defenses like the one he was facing Sunday? 

I am so, so glad that the Bills didn't pull this crap with Allen. I'm glad they let him learn through his mistakes and are now reaping the benefits. I like Brian Flores a lot, I think he's a great coach, and I think the Dolphins likely have a bright future under him. But the decision to pull Tua was a bad one, and I stand by that.

It looked like Fitz was explaining to Tua how the Safety followed his eyes to make the INT.

 

I think Tua learned something watching Fitz play against a team he was struggling against.

 

Still,  I tend to agree , It was an odd move because you want to see how a player responds to adversity IMO.

 

Getting yanked at the the 1st sign of trouble is probably not the best way to develop a rookie QB.

 

Better for Buffalo...

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Figster

[BruceVilanch]

If you're going to start a rook QB let them take their lumps, it helps development. I don't get why they did this and I genuinely think Flores is a good HC, but this move was a head scratcher.

[TBBills]

11 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

Exactly Tebow is great example. Johnny M as well. Beane picking JA looks pretty darn good right now even if just vs his draft class. Long term would you want JA vs any of them including Baker and Lamar? 

 

3 hours ago, Figster said:

It looked like Fitz was explaining to Tua how the Safety followed his eyes to make the INT.

 

I think Tua learned something watching Fitz play against a team he was struggling against.

 

Still,  I tend to agree , It was an odd move because you want to see how a player responds to adversity IMO.

 

Getting yanked at the the 1st sign of trouble is probably not the best way to develop a rookie QB.

 

Better for Buffalo...

 

 

 

 

Of course you can learns something from Fitz... 

A. Never put Fitz in when the playoffs are on the line.

 

B. Fitz loves INTs

Edited November 24, 2020 by TBBills

[Bill from NYC]

13 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

As a college football fanatic I would also point out that Lawrence doesn't exactly play against a lot of elite teams.  In last years Championship game he looked pretty ordinary going up against those future NFL players on LSU's defense.

 

 

 

 

The above is true.

 

In any event, are you stating that Lawrence is not such a great prospect?

[Captain Hindsight]

20 hours ago, billybob71 said:

jets gonna get their first win next week

I think so too. Bad teams always play better at the end of the year. I'm glad we got our Jets games out of the way

 

If they can not turn the ball over, I could see the Jets winning this and lots of media members slowly crawling back into their "Miami is the best team in the AFC" caves

[dorquemada]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fortunately or unfortunately, it requires me to subscribe.  Would you be willing to give us a synopsis?

 

Every year experts seem to project rookies who have never played high onto lists of top QBs.  It seems to work about as well as one might expect

 

 

Sure, it starts with

 

With that in mind, Pro Football Focus set out to rank the top 10 quarterbacks who we'd want to lead a franchise -- based on talent alone, and not their respective contract situations -- from the 2017-2021 NFL draft classes.

 

lol i guess I should have stopped at PFF.  but as a Bills fan I enjoy punishing myself, so I pushed on

 

1. Patrick Mahomes, Kansas City Chiefs

 

2. Trevor Lawrence, Clemson Tigers

 

3. Deshaun Watson, Houston Texans

 

4. Lamar Jackson, Baltimore Ravens

 

5. Joe Burrow, Cincinnati Bengals

 

6. Kyler Murray, Arizona Cardinals

 

7. Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills

 

8. Justin Fields, Ohio State Buckeyes

 

9. Justin Herbert, Los Angeles Chargers

 

10. Zach Wilson, BYU Cougars

 

So the net here is out of the top 10 'franchise QBs' out of the last 4 years draft classes, 3 of them have yet to be drafted.  About par for the course for PFF.  I hear there's a good QB on some pop warner team outside Miami, i'm pretty sure we should declare him the greatest QB ever

14 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

As a college football fanatic I would also point out that Lawrence doesn't exactly play against a lot of elite teams.  In last years Championship game he looked pretty ordinary going up against those future NFL players on LSU's defense.

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed!  Put him in the SEC,  i'm sure he'll still be a very good college QB but the coronation might have gotten slowed down a bit

[SCBills]

18 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

If Lawrence is as advertised the team in the #1 spot would never trade out.  Fields maybe, Lawrence not.

 

I see people talking about Tua, and the talent at Alabama.... that may start to become a narrative about Trevor too.  

 

I've watched Clemson a lot, and fwiw, I would absolutely take him at #1... but i'm already seeing draft people talk about his downfield accuracy percentage (It's way lower than Fields), and truthfully, T-Law gets alot of yards via YAC from insanely talented skill guys.  He also throws a ton of jump balls down the field to dudes who are simply bigger, faster and stronger than anyone else.  

 

His LSU Championship Game last year was pretty bad... for as good as Trevor is, and can be, he is the reason they lost that game. 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by SCBills

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

The above is true.

 

In any event, are you stating that Lawrence is not such a great prospect?

 

Trevor is a great PROSPECT but the operative word here is prospect.  He is no where near a sure thing and I was reacting to the insane list that had him the 2nd best recent NFL QB taken in the draft before he threw a single NFL pass.  To tank to draft Lawrence would be crazy IMO.

 

I would also have some concerns about Justin Fields.  As an Ohio State fan he reminds me of an athletic Haskins. That is when he has all day to throw and is playing against B1G secondary's he can destroy them throwing to a posse of future NFL WR's.  But put pressure on him as IU just did and his accuracy and judgement suffer.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by CincyBillsFan

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Trevor is a great PROSPECT but the operative word here is prospect.  He is no where near a sure thing and I was reacting to the insane list that had him the 2nd best recent NFL QB taken in the draft before he threw a single NFL pass.  To tank to draft Lawrence would be crazy IMO.

 

I would also have some concerns about Justin Fields.  As an Ohio State fan he reminds me of an athletic Haskins. That is when he has all day to throw and is playing against B1G secondary's he can destroy them throwing to a posse of future NFL WR's.  But put pressure on him as IU just did and his accuracy and judgement suffer.

 

 

 Biggest issue for Fields is his ability to process quickly. IU blitzed on every single snap (!) not sure every team will do that but he could have taken more advantage than he did if he had the processing ability of Lawrence. I don’t question fields arm talent or mobility though he seems to save his running for certain times when he could do it a lot more. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

 Biggest issue for Fields is his ability to process quickly. IU blitzed on every single snap (!) not sure every team will do that but he could have taken more advantage than he did if he had the processing ability of Lawrence 

 

I really think he would benefit from one more year at OSU.  With Lawrence out of the way Fields would be the presumptive #1 pick.  He doesn't want to go down the path of Haskins or Turbisky if he can avoid it. 

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I really think he would benefit from one more year at OSU.  With Lawrence out of the way Fields would be the presumptive #1 pick.  He doesn't want to go down the path of Haskins or Turbisky if he can avoid it. 

He absolutely would benefit from another year. I said the same thing about Haskins, I think his lack of experience was a big reason he struggled. Same with trubisky. One year is not enough. Fields will have two,  but one of those was a cluster due to Covid. But I would never expect a kid expected to go at the top of the 1st round to return, but I think his nfl readiness really would benefit especially given his situation with being able to be coached by Day in this system 

Edited November 24, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[Doc]

Not impressed with Fields and he'll suffer the same fate as every other OSU QB in the NFL.  It's basically Lawrence and then a big step down from there.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Doc

[SCBills]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

Not impressed with Fields and he'll suffer the same fate as every other OSU QB in the NFL. 

 

People always trash OSU QB's, but never really go into why..  This is my thing:

 

My worry with OSU QB's is that the team is so head and shoulders above the rest of the conference in terms of both talent and athleticism.  

 

Clemson is the same in the ACC, but they at least face SEC-like athleticism throughout the conference.   Trevor will have played Miami and Notre Dame (likely) before the CFP.  Clemson also plays South Carolina every year and has been scheduling a second SEC team early season as of late. 

 

Fields biggest game of the year will have been..... Indiana? 

 

Even a team like FSU, which is a dumpster fire lately, has multiple NFL guys on that defense. 

 

B1G has a lot of well coached, solid teams, but there's a reason it seems like a shock to the system every time OSU plays Clemson/SEC in the CFP. 

 

OSU did step up, albeit in a loss to Clemson, last year - I will admit that. 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by SCBills

[Bill from NYC]

20 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Trevor is a great PROSPECT but the operative word here is prospect.  He is no where near a sure thing and I was reacting to the insane list that had him the 2nd best recent NFL QB taken in the draft before he threw a single NFL pass.  To tank to draft Lawrence would be crazy IMO.

I agree with the above but respectfully disagree with your last sentence. Not every great college player is a sure thing in the NFL. There are too many avenues towards failure.

 

As far as Trevor, he is said to be the best prospect since Elway in 1982. He has an insane amount of talent. If the Jets can keep it going and tank, the franchise will immediately increase in value. If he is as good as he would seem to be, he will eventually win games, perhaps even super bowls (as much as I dislike saying this). Playing in the NYC area could make him one of the most popular players in any sport IF he turns out to be great.

 

QBs are even more important than they were in 1982. The Jets would be wise to tank.

[YoloinOhio]

43 minutes ago, Doc said:

Not impressed with Fields and he'll suffer the same fate as every other OSU QB in the NFL.  It's basically Lawrence and then a big step down from there.

Scout the player, not the helmet. Fields may not be a perfect prospect like Lawrence but the issues he has are not related to the fact he plays at Ohio state. He’s a different level of talent at the position than they’ve ever had, As he is the highest rated player the program has ever had recruiting wise . He is the first one to play for Ryan day who is a QB coach by trade, coached in the nfl and runs an NFL type offense. Acknlowleding Fields areas of development is not analogous to saying all osu QBs fail in the nfl and so will he. His areas for development will come with  experience - learning to go through reads more quickly, pre-snap/post snap. He’s a young player with a high ceiling. To say he’s bound for the same fate as any other QB from osu is ignoring that there has ever been a good nfl QB from places like LSU, Oregon, Texas tech, Wyoming, Oklahoma etc - just to mention a few successful young QBs over the last few years who game from schools who did not previously produce Good NFL  QBs - and not looking at the change in system, coaching, etc that takes place at those schools over the years and how that impacts the type of prospect that will emerge, let alone the simple fact that every player is different. I think he needs more experience and is not as good as Lawrence right now, but I would say that no matter where he played. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[DrDawkinstein]

Just wanted to again note that Miami could have had Herbet! lol

 

I also dont believe Trevor Lawrence is as great as some folks think. I've watched almost all his games and he just doesnt over-impress me like some other prospects have (Luck, Newton, Burrow, for examples).

[QLBillsFan]

K Murray has had a solid second year but not sure he’s better than JA. The running around is not sustainable. Fields looked like for the first time in his life under pressure, and he looked like a HS qb at times. I bet Tua was high on this list last year. Silly to compare any college qb to established starters in NFL. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by QLBillsFan

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Just wanted to again note that Miami could have had Herbet! lol

 

I also dont believe Trevor Lawrence is as great as some folks think. I've watched almost all his games and he just doesnt over-impress me like some other prospects have (Luck, Newton, Burrow, for examples).

Come Dr! Not one human being on the planet would have drafted Herbert over Tua.

 

its weird how this board is about other team’s qbs. One bad game and they suck.  Yet, we preach patience with our own. I thought the Fins should stuck with Fitz because why rush Tua off a major injury? And Tua has certainly not been great but the guy has 6 tds 0 ints and 100 QB rating.  As a rookie off a major injury on a team that lack big time talent on offense.  

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Come Dr! Not one human being on the planet would have drafted Herbert over Tua.

 

its weird how this board is about other team’s qbs. One bad game and they suck.  Yet, we preach patience with our own. I thought the Fins should stuck with Fitz because why rush Tua off a major injury? And Tua has certainly not been great but the guy has 6 tds 0 ints and 100 QB rating.  As a rookie off a major injury on a team that lack big time talent on offense.  

 

I'm a big SEC homer and specifically Bama fan so I already have a lot of love for Tua. But I was never really sold on him as an NFL QB, especially not after his injuries. We'll see.

 

My comments are more having fun with schadenfreude and the Dolphins than the specific QBs.

 

And even if Tua shows promise, I believe the Dolphins franchise will ruin him. They are already on track to blow it with this "start him-pull him" nonsense.

 

edit: wrt "Not one human being on the planet would have drafted Herbert over Tua"... I dunno. Beane picked Allen over some much higher thought of prospects. I bet some teams in the league had Herbert ratd higher.

Edited November 24, 2020 by DrDawkinstein

[C.Biscuit97]

47 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I agree with the above but respectfully disagree with your last sentence. Not every great college player is a sure thing in the NFL. There are too many avenues towards failure.

 

As far as Trevor, he is said to be the best prospect since Elway in 1982. He has an insane amount of talent. If the Jets can keep it going and tank, the franchise will immediately increase in value. If he is as good as he would seem to be, he will eventually win games, perhaps even super bowls (as much as I dislike saying this). Playing in the NYC area could make him one of the most popular players in any sport IF he turns out to be great.

 

QBs are even more important than they were in 1982. The Jets would be wise to tank.

Where did you hear he is the best prospect since 1982? I haven’t heard that at all. A very good prospect but Luck was better out of college. So was Peyton. I think Lawrence could be very good but I won’t be shocked at all if he is a bust on the Jets if they Sam Darnold him. That franchise doesn’t need to tank. They are trash.

 

and I know you remember the thread I started about Qbs.  Honestly, it has never been easier to put up numbers in the nfl. Rookie 6th founders are throwing for 300 yards in their first start. Herbert is on pace to throw for 5,000 yards if he played in all 16 games. The difference is in finding the truly elite guys. 

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'm a big SEC homer and specifically Bama fan so I already have a lot of love for Tua. But I was never really sold on him as an NFL QB, especially not after his injuries. We'll see.

 

My comments are more having fun with schadenfreude and the Dolphins than the specific QBs.

 

And even if Tua shows promise, I believe the Dolphins franchise will ruin him. They are already on track to blow it with this "start him-pull him" nonsense.

Fair. I think Flores has done an amazing job but his handling of qbs has been questionable. Should have played Rosen to see what he has and gotten a really high pick. Then then benching of Fitz and then to bench Tua in a touchdown game.  He might be too trigger happy. 
 

the Bills made mistakes Allen’s rookie year but they never wavered in support him.  That is huge. 

[Doc]

36 minutes ago, SCBills said:

People always trash OSU QB's, but never really go into why..  This is my thing:

 

My worry with OSU QB's is that the team is so head and shoulders above the rest of the conference in terms of both talent and athleticism.  

 

Clemson is the same in the ACC, but they at least face SEC-like athleticism throughout the conference.   Trevor will have played Miami and Notre Dame (likely) before the CFP.  Clemson also plays South Carolina every year and has been scheduling a second SEC team early season as of late. 

 

Fields biggest game of the year will have been..... Indiana? 

 

Even a team like FSU, which is a dumpster fire lately, has multiple NFL guys on that defense. 

 

B1G has a lot of well coached, solid teams, but there's a reason it seems like a shock to the system every time OSU plays Clemson/SEC in the CFP. 

 

OSU did step up, albeit in a loss to Clemson, last year - I will admit that. 

 

Yup, that's the why.  

 

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Scout the player, not the helmet. Fields may not be a perfect prospect like Lawrence but the issues he has are not related to the fact he plays at Ohio state. He’s a different level of talent at the position than they’ve ever had, As he is the highest rated player the program has ever had recruiting wise . He is the first one to play for Ryan day who is a QB coach by trade, coached in the nfl and runs an NFL type offense. Acknlowleding Fields areas of development is not analogous to saying all osu QBs fail in the nfl and so will he. His areas for development will come with  experience - learning to go through reads more quickly, pre-snap/post snap. He’s a young player with a high ceiling. To say he’s bound for the same fate as any other QB from osu is ignoring that there has ever been a good nfl QB from places like LSU, Oregon, Texas tech, Wyoming, Oklahoma etc - just to mention a few successful young QBs over the last few years who game from schools who did not previously produce Good NFL  QBs - and not looking at the change in system, coaching, etc that takes place at those schools over the years and how that impacts the type of prospect that will emerge, let alone the simple fact that every player is different. I think he needs more experience and is not as good as Lawrence right now, but I would say that no matter where he played. 

 

Fields could be the unicorn like the guys from those schools you mentioned.  But am I putting my job on the line as a GM taking him 2nd overall, much less having to trade into the spot?  No way.

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Fair. I think Flores has done an amazing job but his handling of qbs has been questionable. Should have played Rosen to see what he has and gotten a really high pick. Then then benching of Fitz and then to bench Tua in a touchdown game.  He might be too trigger happy. 
 

the Bills made mistakes Allen’s rookie year but they never wavered in support him.  That is huge. 

 

Yeah, up until recently I had been real worried about Flores and the great job he was doing in Miami. But watching him (and ownership) screw up with Tua makes me feel a bit better. haha

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

I agree with the above but respectfully disagree with your last sentence. Not every great college player is a sure thing in the NFL. There are too many avenues towards failure.

 

As far as Trevor, he is said to be the best prospect since Elway in 1982. He has an insane amount of talent. If the Jets can keep it going and tank, the franchise will immediately increase in value. If he is as good as he would seem to be, he will eventually win games, perhaps even super bowls (as much as I dislike saying this). Playing in the NYC area could make him one of the most popular players in any sport IF he turns out to be great.

 

QBs are even more important than they were in 1982. The Jets would be wise to tank.

 

Fair points about tanking but I disagree about the value experts bring to the decision.  Consider Mahomes, how many experts were saying he was a can't miss prospect? Very few.  Reid saw something that most of the experts didn't see.  Or even closer to home what were the "experts" saying about Allen?  Or Darnold?  Or Mayfield? 

 

My concern with tanking is it puts a stain on a franchise that is forever.  If Lawrence were the next Mahomes it would be worth it.  I just question the certitude with which so many people are claiming that Lawrence is a can't miss prospect.  My 50 years of following the NFL have taught me there is no such thing.

 

 

[Mark Vader]

On 11/22/2020 at 4:54 PM, Ethan in Portland said:

Everyone in the league was saying the same thing about Allen after his first season. Maybe give it a little longer

The big difference is that Tua Tagovailoa had massive hype coming into the league, Josh Allen was quickly written off as an imminent failure.

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Fair points about tanking but I disagree about the value experts bring to the decision.  Consider Mahomes, how many experts were saying he was a can't miss prospect? Very few.  Reid saw something that most of the experts didn't see.  Or even closer to home what were the "experts" saying about Allen?  Or Darnold?  Or Mayfield? 

 

My concern with tanking is it puts a stain on a franchise that is forever.  If Lawrence were the next Mahomes it would be worth it.  I just question the certitude with which so many people are claiming that Lawrence is a can't miss prospect.  My 50 years of following the NFL have taught me there is no such thing.

 

 

And your points are quite valid.

I am a huge Crimson Tide Fan and agree that Trevor had an easy ride. Clemson has a pansy ass schedule no doubt, but I saw what he did against Alabama. The kid can play, and there is nothing at the QB position that he doesn't appear to be potentially great at. I am not saying that he will be better than Josh. Who knows? But greatness would not surprise me at all for a kid with this much size, speed, mobility, arm strength, instinct, and perhaps even intelligence.

 I don't know what else to look for in a QB.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[Figster]

8 hours ago, TBBills said:

 

Of course you can learns something from Fitz... 

A. Never put Fitz in when the playoffs are on the line.

 

B. Fitz loves INTs

Chan Gailey loves him some Fitzy because Fitzpatrick is a brilliant field general that finds ways to move the football including using his own hard head/ body as a ram rod to fire up his teamates.  I don't fault Fitz for the loss. Tua was playing poorly throughout the game. Tua by nature is a game manager and can become a bit tentative until the game is on the line IMO. The Alabama D is practically a scoring machine. Combined with Sabans play smart football on O mentality. Let the D do the dirty work. It may take a little nudge to put Tua into more of aggressive mode for the NFL  Perhaps this is what the Dolphins HC had in mind  Fitzpatrick on the othr hand is the complete opposite. Balls to the wall on every play.

[dorquemada]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

edit: wrt "Not one human being on the planet would have drafted Herbert over Tua"... I dunno. Beane picked Allen over some much higher thought of prospects. I bet some teams in the league had Herbert ratd higher.

 

WRONG JOSH!  WRONG JOSH!

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Mark Vader said:

The big difference is that Tua Tagovailoa had massive hype coming into the league, Josh Allen was quickly written off as an imminent failure.

Ok that never happened. Nobody wrote him off as a failure. Everyone agreed he played earlier than was ideal. Everyone agreed after his elbow injury the first year,  it has been generally a steady improvement .

I have no idea if Tua is going to be good. We will all have a better idea this time next year

[TBBills]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

Chan Gailey loves him some Fitzy because Fitzpatrick is a brilliant field general that finds ways to move the football including using his own hard head/ body as a ram rod to fire up his teamates.  I don't fault Fitz for the loss. Tua was playing poorly throughout the game. Tua by nature is a game manager and can become a bit tentative until the game is on the line IMO. The Alabama D is practically a scoring machine. Combined with Sabans play smart football on O mentality. Let the D do the dirty work. It may take a little nudge to put Tua into more of aggressive mode for the NFL  Perhaps this is what the Dolphins HC had in mind  Fitzpatrick on the othr hand is the complete opposite. Balls to the wall on every play.

Which is why he will never lead a team to the playoffs. Ball to the wall but that is something that is bad when you are a QB.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Figster said:

Chan Gailey loves him some Fitzy because Fitzpatrick is a brilliant field general that finds ways to move the football including using his own hard head/ body as a ram rod to fire up his teamates.  I don't fault Fitz for the loss. Tua was playing poorly throughout the game. Tua by nature is a game manager and can become a bit tentative until the game is on the line IMO. The Alabama D is practically a scoring machine. Combined with Sabans play smart football on O mentality. Let the D do the dirty work. It may take a little nudge to put Tua into more of aggressive mode for the NFL  Perhaps this is what the Dolphins HC had in mind  Fitzpatrick on the othr hand is the complete opposite. Balls to the wall on every play.

 

Tua was the OPPOSITE of the classic Bama game manager who just needed to hand off and rely on the defense. Tua was throwing for 400yards a game and not even playing the 4th quarter! He is not a tentative game manager. Never was.

[letsgoteam]

Wont complain about a divisional opponent shooting themselves in the foot by creating their own QB controversy.

[TBBills]

Just now, letsgoteam said:

Wont complain about a divisional opponent shooting themselves in the foot by creating their own QB controversy.

You know you are not a good QB when you are in controversy with Fitzpatrick.

[Figster]

16 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Tua was the OPPOSITE of the classic Bama game manager who just needed to hand off and rely on the defense. Tua was throwing for 400yards a game and not even playing the 4th quarter! He is not a tentative game manager. Never was.

Are you trying to convince me Saban wasn't drilling into Tua to protect the football? Or Alabama didn't have a good run game?

 

Tua did play it safe despite the lofty numbers IMO. 

 

Allen is a good game manager that knows when to turn it on in the 4th quarter IMO.

 

I'm not sure why thats considered such a bad thing for a QB. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Figster

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Figster said:

Are you trying to convince me Saban wasn't drilling into Tua to protect the football? Or Alabama didn't have a good run game?

 

Tua did play it safe despite the lofty numbers IMO. 

 

Neither of those negate the fact that he was a slinger over a game manager. Just look at the Leaders in the box scores for the 2019 season.

 

Against Duke

Passing: Tua Tagovailoa 26-31, 336 yards, 4 TDs

Rushing: Jerome Ford 10 carries, 64 yards, 1 TD

 

Against South Carolina - 495 passing yards to 76 rushing yards

 

Against Ole Miss - Tua Tagovailoa 26-36, 418 yards, 6 TDs, vs 155 rushing yards.

 

etc, etc

 

Sure, they had a good run game. But really only used it to burn the clock after Tua's passing attack put them up 40 points at halftime.

 

 

[Figster]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Neither of those negate the fact that he was a slinger over a game manager. Just look at the Leaders in the box scores for the 2019 season.

 

Against Duke

Passing: Tua Tagovailoa 26-31, 336 yards, 4 TDs

Rushing: Jerome Ford 10 carries, 64 yards, 1 TD

 

Against South Carolina - 495 passing yards to 76 rushing yards

 

Against Ole Miss - Tua Tagovailoa 26-36, 418 yards, 6 TDs, vs 155 rushing yards.

 

etc, etc

 

Sure, they had a good run game. But really only used it to burn the clock after Tua's passing attack put them up 40 points at halftime.

 

 

Fair enough, 

 

I admit,  Tua has shown an ability to make big plays at the college level. Pin point accuracy goes a long ways in football. In closer games however Tua's play becomes more calculated and a bit tenative IMO.

 

From what I've seen... 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Figster