How not to protect your blue chip franchise QB

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

I'm still stunned by this franchise's cavalier attitude toward protecting their young franchise QB. This has been an ongoing issue since the Bills drafted him, whether it's throwing him out there behind an historically inept OLine, surrounding him with smurf WR's and no legitimate TE's or calling up plays that put him in harms way over and over and over again. You don't get players like this at the QB position very often (hell it took us a quarter of a century to replace Jim Kelly) and when you do you make sure you keep them healthy and put them into position to succeed. For the first time in his career Josh Allen has a legitimate NFL offense around him but they still seem intent on piling up hits on this kid at an unsustainable pace.

This is the best team the Bill have put on the field in 25 years and it is all going to go to waste if Josh Allen gets hurt. Daboll is clearly incapable of controlling himself on Sundays so imo it falls unto McDermott to do it for him. He needs to grab his OC by the earlobe and drag him into his office tomorrow morning and tell him to tone it down with the read option nonsense. Allen has a propensity to take off and make plays with his feet if he doesn't like what he sees downfield, and that is fine. But it also means he's going to take plenty of shots over the course of the season and the last thing Daboll should be doing is adding to that butcher's bill with a bunch of designed QB carries. I don't care if it's an advantageous matchup, if they continue to rely on it, it will eventually cost them what should be their best year in decades. Just tell him he gets two calls a game where he can use Allen as a ball-carrying option and that's it. There's enough talent on this offense to move the chains in other ways; don't rely on doing it in a manner that's eventually going to end your season.

I cringed when he would take hits as a runner and I’m sure many other Bills fans did as well.  I can do without as many designed runs, though I think their plan is to showcase his running to keep defense off-balanced.  Don’t agree with it but that’s what they were trying to do

[Warcodered]

I don't really get it, sure the occasional designed run when they do those sweeps with a bunch of blockers is fine or the short yardage hammer it up the gut play makes sense, but Josh is best as a runner when he decides to pull it down and take advantage of an opening he sees not designed runs.

[Mango]

36 minutes ago, Captain_Quint said:

There was one time early in the game where Knox ran right past the only guy standing there. I ran it back and couldnt figure out why he didnt block him. It defied logic.  

That lead to a busted play. 

Singletary did this. Instead of chipping him, he actually moved out of the way and Josh got smacked. I was pretty furious. 

[WideNine]

11 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

this week we could’ve won with that 10 man offense and Gregg Williams trains his defense to injure quarterbacks I think is the concern. 
 

if it’s a big game against a tough opponent I think most are fine pulling out all the stops. But you don’t want him exposed on a throwaway play. He can Kyle Orton it against the jets. 

I mean, I’d hope in another game where we are overwhelming favorites we won’t expose him more. We need him healthy when we play the rams, raiders, titans and chiefs!

 

There seems to be this pervasive all or nothing polar responses in this thread. I don't think anyone is saying Allen should not run as it is part of his game.

 

Many of the responses are just hoping that Daboll loses those designed Allen sweeps with lead blockers. Had some success early last year in the red zone, but teams have been feasting on those the 2nd half of last year and the less-than-awesome results so far this year should be telling Brian something about how teams are reading and blowing those up.

 

"Alarm bells are ringing Willie"

 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by WideNine

[Haslett_Stomp]

I hate to say it but while watching the game today thought it may take an injury to make Allen a better QB.  He's not going to last the season if he keeps running like he did today.

[The Jokeman]

You're right we should do what the Browns and Jets are doing with their QBs. Oh wait.

[ALLEN1QB]

Our sucky backup will be starting soon ugggg

[apuszczalowski]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

72% for 312 2tds no picks

1 game

Lamar Jackson went 80% for 275 3tds no picks

Minshew went 95% for 173 3tds no picks

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

Chiefs fans posting on Bills forum after Allen dominates I love it

[bdutton]

The called option run plays were not well executed.  He hit on maybe 30% for positive yards.   And everyone one of the 70% put him at risk of injury.  Actually, the other 30% by proximity too.  I watched the first hour of the Pats game and Cam was executing the option masterfully. Allen is not the same runner. Cam is a juker.  Allen is a strider.  He does well in tight space to duck under a rusher and turn a negative into positive.  

 

Allen has also showed a lot of improvement in his passing game.  Nice touch and avoiding the overthrows of open receivers (the John Brown overthrow excepted.).

 

All in all a nice sign of growth and perhaps the sign of what a high draft pick can progress with a stable organization.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, apuszczalowski said:

1 game

Lamar Jackson went 80% for 275 3tds no picks

Minshew went 95% for 173 3tds no picks

 

 

 

You gonna be ok or what

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Its the new NFL. Josh needs to learn fighting for two yards is not worth it. The stiff arm looks cool until you break or dislocated a finger. Just go down and use the sideline. 

Designed running plays for your QB gets you an extra blocker and unlike the wildcat has a real threat to throw the ball. 

Mahomes was hurt on a freak QB sneak and RGIII was hurt scrambling in the pocket.

Daboll was fine today. Josh needs to hold onto the ball and get down. He will run less as the season progresses and they play teams less stout against the run.

[billsfan89]

The designed runs have to stop, they are what took Cam Newton from league MVP to a player that can't stay healthy. I get that its tempting every time you need 6-8 yards to just jam a big 6 foot 5 QB into the fire but you have to be thinking about him as a 10 year investment.

[apuszczalowski]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You gonna be ok or what

Sorry, forgot that facts aren't allowed here

 

I understand reading comprehension is a rare skill these days. Even less so when your just skimming to find something to trigger you because a response isn't Like OMG, isn't Allen perfect in every aspect and the greats football player ever!'

 

You posted stats from one game to prove (I assume) that Josh Allen has defences fearing his arm at this point in his career, so I responded with 3 other QBs who had similar stats that I guess must also have defences fearing their arms too.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, apuszczalowski said:

Sorry, forgot that facts aren't allowed here

 

I understand reading comprehension is a rare skill these days. Even less so when your just skimming to find something to trigger you because a response isn't Like OMG, isn't Allen perfect in every aspect and the greats football player ever!'

 

You posted stats from one game to prove (I assume) that Josh Allen has defences fearing his arm at this point in his career, so I responded with 3 other QBs who had similar stats that I guess must also have defences fearing their arms too.

Enjoy the win smdh
 

 

[apuszczalowski]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

The designed runs have to stop, they are what took Cam Newton from league MVP to a player that can't stay healthy. I get that its tempting every time you need 6-8 yards to just jam a big 6 foot 5 QB into the fire but you have to be thinking about him as a 10 year investment.

But if the Bills wanted a guy who can dominate just standing back in the pocket staying safe, they wouldn't have taken Allen whose biggest asset is his running ability. With a player like him, you take the risk that he could get hurt, just like he could get hurt standing in the pocket. What Allen needs to do to be successful and have a long career is to learn how to protect himself and go down before contact or get out of bounds.

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Enjoy the win smdh
 

 

I am

[billsfanmiamioh]

9 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

But if the Bills wanted a guy who can dominate just standing back in the pocket staying safe, they wouldn't have taken Allen whose biggest asset is his running ability. With a player like him, you take the risk that he could get hurt, just like he could get hurt standing in the pocket. What Allen needs to do to be successful and have a long career is to learn how to protect himself and go down before contact or get out of bounds.

I am

Why do people think the kid can’t throw? Do you guys even watch the games? He makes some throws that few, if any other people can. And he’s getting better. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Well put

you going to hide in your basement like you want josh to?

[GG]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

I'm still stunned by this franchise's cavalier attitude toward protecting their young franchise QB. This has been an ongoing issue since the Bills drafted him, whether it's throwing him out there behind an historically inept OLine, surrounding him with smurf WR's and no legitimate TE's or calling up plays that put him in harms way over and over and over again. You don't get players like this at the QB position very often (hell it took us a quarter of a century to replace Jim Kelly) and when you do you make sure you keep them healthy and put them into position to succeed. For the first time in his career Josh Allen has a legitimate NFL offense around him but they still seem intent on piling up hits on this kid at an unsustainable pace.

This is the best team the Bill have put on the field in 25 years and it is all going to go to waste if Josh Allen gets hurt. Daboll is clearly incapable of controlling himself on Sundays so imo it falls unto McDermott to do it for him. He needs to grab his OC by the earlobe and drag him into his office tomorrow morning and tell him to tone it down with the read option nonsense. Allen has a propensity to take off and make plays with his feet if he doesn't like what he sees downfield, and that is fine. But it also means he's going to take plenty of shots over the course of the season and the last thing Daboll should be doing is adding to that butcher's bill with a bunch of designed QB carries. I don't care if it's an advantageous matchup, if they continue to rely on it, it will eventually cost them what should be their best year in decades. Just tell him he gets two calls a game where he can use Allen as a ball-carrying option and that's it. There's enough talent on this offense to move the chains in other ways; don't rely on doing it in a manner that's eventually going to end your season.

 

You can make an argument that continuing the over-reliance on the read option also stunts Allen's development as a passer.  This has to stop.

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

You can make an argument that continuing the over-reliance on the read option also stunts Allen's development as a passer.  This has to stop.

I agree.  OTOH Daboll used a LOT of eye candy today - plus read option - Daboll wants to make the defense think on the fly, it’s just his philosophy.

[apuszczalowski]

5 minutes ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

Why do people think the kid can’t throw? Do you guys even watch the games? He makes some throws that few, if any other people can. And he’s getting better. 

People do watch the games and they see throws where he throws a 5 yard pass hard enough to blow through a brick wall and deep passes that are 10-15 yards away from the closest receiver. He has the athletic ability to be very good, but he hasn't put it all together to get to a point where defences are gearing his arms. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

People do watch the games and they see throws where he throws a 5 yard pass hard enough to blow through a brick wall and deep passes that are 10-15 yards away from the closest receiver. He has the athletic ability to be very good, but he hasn't put it all together to get to a point where defences are gearing his arms. 

 

Well this is silly

[GG]

11 minutes ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

Why do people think the kid can’t throw? Do you guys even watch the games? He makes some throws that few, if any other people can. And he’s getting better. 

 

That's why there are these threads.  Allen can make unbelievably strong throws that no other QB can make, but he still hasn't shown the ability to make consistently good throws that all good QBs make.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Ball security for a QB is impossible to simulate in a practice setting.  No one is allowed to make any contact with them that comes anywhere near what defenders produce during a game.  

 

As for the injury concerns I think the hits he takes in the pocket are just as dangerous.  So I am resigned to hoping he learns to protect the ball and himself better as time goes on but not necessarily run less.

[GoBills808]

All QBs miss throws

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, GG said:

 

That's why there are these threads.  Allen can make unbelievably strong throws that no other QB can make, but he still hasn't shown the ability to make consistently good throws that all good QBs make.

All QBs miss throws. Its getting to a point where these comments survive more on preconceived narratives than reality. 

[Doc Brown]

For some reason they made those designed runs and read options a big part of the game plan.  Maybe it was specific to this Jets team.  I don't expect them to run him as much in the future.  You have enough weapons where you only do those designed QB runs once or twice a day.

[GG]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

All QBs miss throws. Its getting to a point where these comments survive more on preconceived narratives than reality. 

 

Few starting QBs miss wide open WRs as consistently as Allen has.  He had a good game today by Josh Allen standards.  It's time to start comparing him to a quality NFL starter from a passing standpoint.  The point of this thread is that if they continue pushing Allen's hero ball, he is going to get killed sooner than later.

[Turk71]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

I'm still stunned by this franchise's cavalier attitude toward protecting their young franchise QB. This has been an ongoing issue since the Bills drafted him, whether it's throwing him out there behind an historically inept OLine, surrounding him with smurf WR's and no legitimate TE's or calling up plays that put him in harms way over and over and over again. You don't get players like this at the QB position very often (hell it took us a quarter of a century to replace Jim Kelly) and when you do you make sure you keep them healthy and put them into position to succeed. For the first time in his career Josh Allen has a legitimate NFL offense around him but they still seem intent on piling up hits on this kid at an unsustainable pace.

This is the best team the Bill have put on the field in 25 years and it is all going to go to waste if Josh Allen gets hurt. Daboll is clearly incapable of controlling himself on Sundays so imo it falls unto McDermott to do it for him. He needs to grab his OC by the earlobe and drag him into his office tomorrow morning and tell him to tone it down with the read option nonsense. Allen has a propensity to take off and make plays with his feet if he doesn't like what he sees downfield, and that is fine. But it also means he's going to take plenty of shots over the course of the season and the last thing Daboll should be doing is adding to that butcher's bill with a bunch of designed QB carries. I don't care if it's an advantageous matchup, if they continue to rely on it, it will eventually cost them what should be their best year in decades. Just tell him he gets two calls a game where he can use Allen as a ball-carrying option and that's it. There's enough talent on this offense to move the chains in other ways; don't rely on doing it in a manner that's eventually going to end your season.

  I agree about too many hits and too many designed runs.

  Get a decent offensive line and then the rbs can carry the ball too, and he won't be scrambling on pass plays so much either.

Bills rbs: 18 carries 41 yds 2.3 yds/c, Allen 14 carries 4.1 y/c ,3 sacks allowed. 14 carries for Allen and 2.3 per carry for the rbs is not good. A win is a win but the line is still inept at this point, I hope they get better.

 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

Few starting QBs miss wide open WRs as consistently as Allen has.  He had a good game today by Josh Allen standards.  It's time to start comparing him to a quality NFL starter from a passing standpoint.  The point of this thread is that if they continue pushing Allen's hero ball, he is going to get killed sooner than later.

72% completion on 46 attempts

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, GG said:

 

Few starting QBs miss wide open WRs as consistently as Allen has.  He had a good game today by Josh Allen standards.  It's time to start comparing him to a quality NFL starter from a passing standpoint.  The point of this thread is that if they continue pushing Allen's hero ball, he is going to get killed sooner than later.

 

What is a consistent? Outside of Mahomes, I watched every QB in the league (that played) miss wide open WRs today.  Jeeze, did you see Brady today? JA missed a couple, but there is nothing unique about that. 

2 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

  I agree about too many hits and too many designed runs.

  Get a decent offensive line and then the rbs can carry the ball too, and he won't be scrambling on pass plays so much either.

Bills rbs: 18 carries 41 yds 2.3 yds/c, Allen 14 carries 4.1 y/c ,3 sacks allowed. 14 carries for Allen and 2.3 per carry for the rbs is not good. A win is a win but the line is still inept at this point, I hope they get better.

 

 

 

Stats don't tell the whole story--no one who watched that game walked away thinking the pass protection is a problem. As far as the run game, well, the Jets did have the best yds/c run defense in the league last year. 

[apuszczalowski]

Just now, GG said:

 

Few starting QBs miss wide open WRs as consistently as Allen has.  He had a good game today by Josh Allen standards.  It's time to start comparing him to a quality NFL starter from a passing standpoint.  The point of this thread is that if they continue pushing Allen's hero ball, he is going to get killed sooner than later.

I would say he had a good game today by any standard. But how much of that was because the Jets had to worry about trying to stop him using his legs? He was the only one out there doing any damage on the ground. How much did that help out?

[GG]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

72% completion on 46 attempts

 

And about 4 massive hits that caused 2 fumbles (which is the OP point).  Remember how his brain got scrambled when Cunningham plowed into his head in January?  That's what Daboll keeps dialing up.

4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

What is a consistent? Outside of Mahomes, I watched every QB in the league (that played) miss wide open WRs today.  Jeeze, did you see Brady today? JA missed a couple, but there is nothing unique about that. 

 

Not missing wide open receivers when there's time to either set your feet or flick the wrist?   The Bills will not clear the playoff hump with hero ball alone.  All-22 will be very instructive

[Watching since 1964]

[Buffalo_Gal]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

What is a consistent? Outside of Mahomes, I watched every QB in the league (that played) miss wide open WRs today.  Jeeze, did you see Brady today? JA missed a couple, but there is nothing unique about that. 

My husband was complaining about Allen today. When we turned on the Tampa Bay/NO game I kept pointing out the passes Brees was missing, and Brady was missing. As you say, all QBs miss passes.

(I will admit I "may" have been a tad vocal in my reaction to the overthrow of John Brown in the end zone.)

There are people that are never going to be happy. Over 70% completion rate, a 300 yard game, and a couple of touchdowns passing and a rushing TD, and people are complaining.  SMH



 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

And about 4 massive hits that caused 2 fumbles (which is the OP point).  Remember how his brain got scrambled when Cunningham plowed into his head in January?  That's what Daboll keeps dialing up.

 

Not missing wide open receivers when there's time to either set your feet or flick the wrist?   The Bills will not clear the playoff hump with hero ball alone.  All-22 will be very instructive

 

Yes. Holy cow. You literally have to not watch any other game in the league to think this is unique to JA. 

[billsfan89]

39 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

But if the Bills wanted a guy who can dominate just standing back in the pocket staying safe, they wouldn't have taken Allen whose biggest asset is his running ability. With a player like him, you take the risk that he could get hurt, just like he could get hurt standing in the pocket. What Allen needs to do to be successful and have a long career is to learn how to protect himself and go down before contact or get out of bounds.

 

Allen should have reign to run if he scrambles and nothing is there. Don't take the running threat away but these read option and designed run plays are designed in a way for a QB to take contact. No issues with Josh running if he does it in a smart way. But stop designing plays for him to run. 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

My husband was complaining about Allen today. When we turned on the Tampa Bay/NO game I kept pointing out the passes Brees was missing, and Brady was missing. As you say, all QBs miss passes.

(I will admit I "may" have been a tad vocal in my reaction to the overthrow of John Brown in the end zone.)

There are people that are never going to be happy. Over 70% completion rate, a 300 yard game, and a couple of touchdowns passing and a rushing TD, and people are complaining.  SMH



 

 

That was one of two trullllly problematic throws I saw today.  But its still not enough to say its a "consistency problem," ya know? 

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, GG said:

 

And about 4 massive hits that caused 2 fumbles (which is the OP point).  Remember how his brain got scrambled when Cunningham plowed into his head in January?  That's what Daboll keeps dialing up.

 

Not missing wide open receivers when there's time to either set your feet or flick the wrist?   The Bills will not clear the playoff hump with hero ball alone.  All-22 will be very instructive

I care about QB fumbles on called runs like I care about punter INTs on fake punts

[GG]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I care about QB fumbles on called runs like I care about punter INTs on fake punts

That's like playing russian roulette with 3 bullets