2020 NFL top 100 - Josh Allen comes in at #87, Diggs #54, Tre White # 47

[NewEra]

Tre at 47 is a joke while Gilmore will be top 10

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

I hear ya, makes me think of this example, Dak putting up big yards and not making the playoffs this past year.  Dak is a good QB as we all know,  all those yards in the end though didn’t get the job done, Its about team success first and foremost imo, personal stats don’t mean as much if your team doesn’t make the post season, which after all is the measuring stick, jmo. Here’s to Josh’s continued growth. ?
 

Go Bills!!!

He’s 40-24 as a starter. 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He’s 40-24 as a starter. 

Not my point, you see, all the yards accumulated “last season” didn’t matter, they didn’t make the post season, which is incumbent on team success not individual stats. Yards alone don’t tell the story, being the Bills made the post season and the boys didn’t as an example. If you don’t make the post season you didn’t have a successful season, being that is the measurement of a good season in the NFL, or was that DJ 9-7 season considered successful? 
 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Don Otreply

[MJS]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He’s 40-24 as a starter. 

And this is what I don't get. If people mention wins for certain QB's (like Allen) people scream "Wins are a team stat!" but then you can mention it for others, like Dak?

 

I think wins are a great metric to use for QB's given the impact they have on the game, personally. It just has to be taken in context.

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Tre at 47 is a joke while Gilmore will be top 10

Next year's list will make this year's look silly when Edmunds goes from nowhere to comfortably in the top 25.

Edited July 28, 2020 by 4merper4mer

[GunnerBill]

51 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Not my point, you see, all the yards accumulated “last season” didn’t matter, they didn’t make the post season, which is incumbent on team success not individual stats. Yards alone don’t tell the story, being the Bills made the post season and the boys didn’t as an example. If you don’t make the post season you didn’t have a successful season, being that is the measurement of a good season in the NFL, or were those DJ 9-7 seasons considered successful? 
 

 

Which DJ are you on about? Cos Jauron never went 9-7... he went 7-9. And 7-9. And 7-9... and 7 and well.... you get the picture.

[GoBills808]

50 minutes ago, MJS said:

And this is what I don't get. If people mention wins for certain QB's (like Allen) people scream "Wins are a team stat!" but then you can mention it for others, like Dak?

 

I think wins are a great metric to use for QB's given the impact they have on the game, personally. It just has to be taken in context.

Wins are always a team stat

[MJS]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Wins are always a team stat

And they are also a QB stat. It's the one position in sports that truly moves the needle on wins and losses. Feel free to disagree, though.

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, MJS said:

And they are also a QB stat. It's the one position in sports that truly moves the needle on wins and losses. Feel free to disagree, though.

So was Tom Brady a better QB last season than Russel Wilson? 

[Billl]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

And this is what I don't get. If people mention wins for certain QB's (like Allen) people scream "Wins are a team stat!" but then you can mention it for others, like Dak?

 

I think wins are a great metric to use for QB's given the impact they have on the game, personally. It just has to be taken in context.

You don’t get the difference between a QB who has a great record and great stats, a QB who has great stats but a mediocre record, and a QB with mediocre stats and a winning record?

[GoBills808]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he is too high.... but I would still have him in the latter quarter of my top 100. He didn't play as well in 2019 as 2017 and 2018 but he still made game changing plays in multiple games.

 

The thing with the top 100 though is it is never just about the previous season. When you ask players they are always going to factor their whole history in. I suspect Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers will be higher than their actual 2019 performances for example. I still think it is way too low for Trey. I think he is a top 30 player in the league and his consistency across three years has been extraordinary.

Rodgers had a very good 2019 even with Adams missing 4 games and playing injured basically the entire season.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Rodgers had a very good 2019 even with Adams missing 4 games and playing injured basically the entire season.

 

I don't agree. I think he was good. I don't think he was anywhere near what he has been. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't agree. I think he was good. I don't think he was anywhere near what he has been. 

I didn't say he was as good as he's ever been, I said he was 'very good'. Which he was.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I didn't say he was as good as he's ever been, I said he was 'very good'. Which he was.

 

In which case I don't think we disagree by much. I  do think there was noticeable decline and the point is I suspect he will be higher on this list than his pure 2019 form deserves. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

And this is what I don't get. If people mention wins for certain QB's (like Allen) people scream "Wins are a team stat!" but then you can mention it for others, like Dak?

 

I think wins are a great metric to use for QB's given the impact they have on the game, personally. It just has to be taken in context.

Actually great point.  Wins are stupid for qbs.  Especially when Dak got 8 and led an offense that averaged 27 points/ game while Allen got 10 with an offense that averaged 19.  
 

and for the record, if Allen had Dak’s passing numbers, you were hear zero criticism from me.  That’s why it’s idiotic that some prop Allen up while putting guys like Dak and Lamar down.  It is insane. 

 

2 hours ago, MJS said:

And they are also a QB stat. It's the one position in sports that truly moves the needle on wins and losses. Feel free to disagree, though.

Pat Mahomes “lost” a game where he led the offense to 51 points. Allen “won” a game where we scored 14.  It’s a pretty dumb stat. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Next year's list will make this year's look silly when Edmunds goes from nowhere to comfortably in the top 25.

Hope so.  If he doesn't make a big jump this year they will have a big decision to make on his future.

[MJS]

26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Actually great point.  Wins are stupid for qbs.  Especially when Dak got 8 and led an offense that averaged 27 points/ game while Allen got 10 with an offense that averaged 19.  
 

and for the record, if Allen had Dak’s passing numbers, you were hear zero criticism from me.  That’s why it’s idiotic that some prop Allen up while putting guys like Dak and Lamar down.  It is insane. 

 

Pat Mahomes “lost” a game where he led the offense to 51 points. Allen “won” a game where we scored 14.  It’s a pretty dumb stat. 

Dumb stat which you just used for Dak.

[Ralonzo]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

And they are also a QB stat. It's the one position in sports that truly moves the needle on wins and losses. Feel free to disagree, though.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

 

and now we hate cowherd again. ? 

 

That didn’t take long

 

[Stank_Nasty]

On 7/27/2020 at 4:33 PM, Billl said:

Wonder how many QBs will be on the list.  Got to think 20 or so.

You were off by ten. So you were about as wrong as you usually are with regards Allen. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Billl]

22 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

You were off by ten. So you were about as wrong as you usually are with regards Allen. 

You’re joking, right?

[DCOrange]

Now that we know who the top 10 is, it looks like this is how our guys were ranked by position:

 

• Allen: #12 QB behind: Lamar (top 10), Mahomes (top 10), Wilson (top 10), Brees (#12), Brady (#14), Rodgers (#16), Watson (#20), Garoppolo (#43), Dak (#46), Cousins (#58), and Tannehill (#68)
• Tre: #4 CB, behind: Gilmore (top 10), Sherman (#28), and Ramsey (#37)
• Diggs: #8 WR behind: Thomas (top 10), Hopkins (top 10), Julio (#11), Hill (#22), Evans (#30), Godwin (#38), and Amari (#49)

Edited July 29, 2020 by DCOrange

[Comebackkid]

48 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Now that we know who the top 10 is, it looks like this is how our guys were ranked by position:

 

• Allen: #12 QB behind: Lamar (top 10), Mahomes (top 10), Wilson (top 10), Brees (#12), Brady (#14), Rodgers (#16), Watson (#20), Garoppolo (#43), Dak (#46), Cousins (#58), and Tannehill (#68)
• Tre: #4 CB, behind: Gilmore (top 10), Sherman (#28), and Ramsey (#37)
• Diggs: #8 WR behind: Thomas (top 10), Hopkins (top 10), Julio (#11), Hill (#22), Evans (#30), Godwin (#38), and Amari (#49)

Way to much space between Gilmore and Tre.   Eagles fans are pissed Wentz didn't make it and Josh and Kyle did. 

[DCOrange]

9 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

Way to much space between Gilmore and Tre.   Eagles fans are pissed Wentz didn't make it and Josh and Kyle did. 

With good reason lol. Wentz and Golladay gotta be among the biggest snubs.

[C.Biscuit97]

10 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

Way to much space between Gilmore and Tre.   Eagles fans are pissed Wentz didn't make it and Josh and Kyle did. 

Wentz is better than Allen.  He is made out of glass though. 

Just now, DCOrange said:

With good reason lol. Wentz and Golladay gotta be among the biggest snubs.

The far majority of players would make terrible GMs.

[Comebackkid]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Wentz is better than Allen.  He is made out of glass though. 

The far majority of players would make terrible GMs.

Right, it's nice Josh got recognition,  but this isn't exactly the be all/end all of who's who.   

[Billl]

5 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

With good reason lol. Wentz and Golladay gotta be among the biggest snubs.

I feel like players put an emphasis on toughness, and Wentz being injured so much matters a ton to them.  Conversely, I think players respect Josh’s willingness to run in the open field.  It goes back to the idea that he’s a better “football player” than he is a QB.  Nobody really believes he’s a better QB than Wentz when both are healthy, and both are injury prone (albeit for different reasons).

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

Now that we know who the top 10 is, it looks like this is how our guys were ranked by position:

 

• Allen: #12 QB behind: Lamar (top 10), Mahomes (top 10), Wilson (top 10), Brees (#12), Brady (#14), Rodgers (#16), Watson (#20), Garoppolo (#43), Dak (#46), Cousins (#58), and Tannehill (#68)
• Tre: #4 CB, behind: Gilmore (top 10), Sherman (#28), and Ramsey (#37)
• Diggs: #8 WR behind: Thomas (top 10), Hopkins (top 10), Julio (#11), Hill (#22), Evans (#30), Godwin (#38), and Amari (#49)

 

I think 12th best QB in the league is a little generous to Allen but in the right ballpark. 

 

4th best CB is harsh on White. I think it is Gilmore, White and Ramsey as the 1,2,3.... Sherman was a nice bounce back story but he is about the 10th best corner at this point.

 

8th best WR is about right for Diggs. I said in the recent thread about those top 10 lists that I thought he was somewhere between 8th and 12th and Iean more towards 8th or 9th. 

34 minutes ago, Billl said:

I feel like players put an emphasis on toughness, and Wentz being injured so much matters a ton to them.  Conversely, I think players respect Josh’s willingness to run in the open field.  It goes back to the idea that he’s a better “football player” than he is a QB.  Nobody really believes he’s a better QB than Wentz when both are healthy, and both are injury prone (albeit for different reasons).

 

Wentz is also not universally popular in his own lockerroom. That plays into it. 

[eball]

38 minutes ago, Billl said:

and both are injury prone

 

Josh is injury prone?  He got hurt once in his rookie season and missed a few games.  Now if you say his style of play puts him at risk to take more hits I'll buy that, but injury prone is not accurate.

[C.Biscuit97]

40 minutes ago, Billl said:

I feel like players put an emphasis on toughness, and Wentz being injured so much matters a ton to them.  Conversely, I think players respect Josh’s willingness to run in the open field.  It goes back to the idea that he’s a better “football player” than he is a QB.  Nobody really believes he’s a better QB than Wentz when both are healthy, and both are injury prone (albeit for different reasons).

I will say this.  For as much as criticism Allen, it has zero to do with his toughness.  He definitely is a guy you would want to go war with.  Basically, he the exact opposite of Orton the Coward.

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Josh is injury prone?  He got hurt once in his rookie season and missed a few games.  Now if you say his style of play puts him at risk to take more hits I'll buy that, but injury prone is not accurate.

Yeah, I won’t say injury prone yet.  But it’s like With Cam and Big Ben.  These guys fight to make every play great but ultimately, no matter how big and bad you are, those hits add up.  
 

It sucks because you don’t want to coach the warrior part out of them but you won’t last in the league with that style.

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think 12th best QB in the league is a little generous to Allen but in the right ballpark. 

 

Yeah, probably a little high but you can make a case either way.
 

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

4th best CB is harsh on White. I think it is Gilmore, White and Ramsey as the 1,2,3.... Sherman was a nice bounce back story but he is about the 10th best corner at this point.

 

Agree. He was playing well until the second half of the Super Bowl. 

 

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

8th best WR is about right for Diggs. I said in the recent thread about those top 10 lists that I thought he was somewhere between 8th and 12th and Iean more towards 8th or 9th. 

 

Top-10 for sure.

[Billl]

30 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Josh is injury prone?  He got hurt once in his rookie season and missed a few games.  Now if you say his style of play puts him at risk to take more hits I'll buy that, but injury prone is not accurate.

He missed the 2015 season after breaking his collar bone on the 4th play of the season.  He missed multiple games in 2017 with a shoulder injury.  He missed multiple games due to injury his rookie season, and he got knocked out of a game last year.

[Stank_Nasty]

49 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think 12th best QB in the league is a little generous to Allen but in the right ballpark. 

 

4th best CB is harsh on White. I think it is Gilmore, White and Ramsey as the 1,2,3.... Sherman was a nice bounce back story but he is about the 10th best corner at this point.

 

8th best WR is about right for Diggs. I said in the recent thread about those top 10 lists that I thought he was somewhere between 8th and 12th and Iean more towards 8th or 9th. 

 

Wentz is also not universally popular in his own lockerroom. That plays into it. 

i agree 12th is a bit generous and i'm a pretty big allen guy around here. i dont think its outrageous though, as i have had him pegged in the 14-18 range for any given sunday since about midseason of last year.

 

White definitely should have been in the top 3 corners IMO. but some of this voting is a reputation thing. he puts together another elite season and thats where he'll be.

 

was pleasantly surprised to see diggs land in the top 10 on the list. It's clear the guy didnt get nearly the respect from the media he deserves over the last couple of years. I think that was just due to his situation and scheme but once you watch the highlights his hands are just, WOW..... Adam schein just posted an article yesterday listing his top wr's and Diggs came in at 9.

 

Pretty cool seeing our team with these sorts of ascending talents. I 100% expect Edmunds to make next years list as well. 

[eball]

54 minutes ago, Billl said:

He missed the 2015 season after breaking his collar bone on the 4th play of the season.  He missed multiple games in 2017 with a shoulder injury.  He missed multiple games due to injury his rookie season, and he got knocked out of a game last year.

 

During his PRO career Josh has missed 4 games (2018) and a quarter (2019).  Basically, over his last 23 games he only missed the 4th quarter of the first NE*** game.  I don't call that injury prone for an NFL QB.

[GreggTX]

Josh Allen at 87!!! LOL!!! Who wrote this article? His mother? He's not even top 20 at his position. Too funny.

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Josh Allen at 87!!! LOL!!! Who wrote this article? His mother? He's not even top 20 at his position. Too funny.

its was a show.... that the players voted on.

 

but i'm sure his mom thinks the world of him as well.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[GreggTX]

17 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

 

 

and now we hate cowherd again. ? 

 

That didn’t take long

 

 

Cowherd is exactly right. Josh Allen isn't even a top 200 player. Heck, he may not even be a top 400 player. He isn't even good yet. There are like 25 QB's in the NFL better than Allen. Why can't Bills fans simply regard this guy objectively and honestly? Some writer even suggested Allen as an MVP candidate! I mean the guy's 1st responsibility is passing the football and he can't even do that very well.

[Billl]

32 minutes ago, eball said:

 

During his PRO career Josh has missed 4 games (2018) and a quarter (2019).  Basically, over his last 23 games he only missed the 4th quarter of the first NE*** game.  I don't call that injury prone for an NFL QB.

He’s started 26 games (not counting week 17 last season).  He’s been knocked out of 2 and missed 4 more due to injury.  That’s 30 games he’s been top of the depth chart, and he’s either missed or been knocked out of 6.  Add that to the 17 games he missed in college , and he qualifies as injury prone to me.  You’re welcome to disagree.

 

To be clear, I’m not saying he’s fragile.  I’m saying he gets hurt a lot.  His style of play lends itself to injury.  He’s not a guy who slides around in the pocket and makes quick reads.  He’s a max effort, play with reckless abandon QB.  That’s his game, and he has to play that way to be effective at this point in his career.  In 5 seasons at Wyoming and in Buffalo, he’s had one injury that cost him an entire season, 2 that cost him 4+ games each, and a fourth that caused him to leave a game with a concussion.  

[Doc]

30 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

its was a show.... that the players voted on.

 

but i'm sure his mom thinks the world of him as well.

 

Yeah, what would the players know?