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Isn't our country so wonderful as to allow freedom of expression as stupid as this

21 hours ago, SCBills said:


The ultimate Karen post 

Isn't our country wonderful as to allow freedom of expression as moronic as this

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2 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Can you cite those sources? Honestly all those numbers seem high to me

It's from a 2005 book called “Economic Issues Today: Alternative Approaches."

 

The data comes from a study produced in the 1980's, I believe. So yeah, the data is old and likely not completely representative of what is happening today, but hopefully gives us an idea of the price of economic crisis. Honestly the numbers could be higher given our higher population today.

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9 minutes ago, MJS said:

It's from a 2005 book called “Economic Issues Today: Alternative Approaches."

 

The data comes from a study produced in the 1980's, I believe. So yeah, the data is old and likely not completely representative of what is happening today, but hopefully gives us an idea of the price of economic crisis. Honestly the numbers could be higher given our higher population today.

Ok, thanks for sharing.

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2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

H2O, I’m so sorry one of you’re children was so ill.  From an understanding standpoint, my middle son who was born at 28 weeks (he’s great and just graduated from high school) had pneumonia 5 times at age 4-5 and by rights cheated death again from when he was born, but it was from him not getting a series of vaccinations as a newborn.  Both are unique examples, and were just glad he is ok as I’m glad you’re child is ok.  It’s a misnomer the flu can cause the flu.  You can have a small reaction to it and as stated before the yearly flu virus only protects against a certain strain, but you ca; contract another strain less common.  You not getting a flu vaccine, I understand completely.  I have to working in OR’s. and ASC’s as its part of vendor Credentialing To gain access to protected areas.

 

The Covid 19 is not actually a virus, or the flu.  It’s a protein surrounded by a layer of fat. That’s why the purel works as the 66% + isopropyl alcohol basically melts the fat layer so the protein dies quickly.  Again, a personal choice for any vaccination so no argument from me.  The real problem for game attendance is not in the spacing of seats as they can figure that one out. The problem is the bathrooms, the halls traveling to the seats, the concessions, almost absolutely impossible to social distance.  Social distancing is the only way to kill this thing.  Treatment options are much better and a vaccine for us who want it is on the way too, but it just won’t change quickly.  Sucks so I’m empathizing with you.  I hate this crap just like you and others.


Thanks Teef and we’ll said.  I think enough people know me on this board, I don’t beat people up for their opinion even if I disagree, I just want us to be safe, that’s all.  I’ve already far crossed my limit for multiple responses to a thread so I’m out.  I’ve said my peace and as always wish you all the best.
 

By the way, can we start more threads of the best team to be proven this year in the AFC!  I love my Bills.

 

Billieve!

And I totally respect this as well my friend. I, myself, am still being smart about things. I have a 12 and 14 year old I go home to every day. I wash my hands, have never been a close talker so I always keep distance anyway, and I have tried to avoid my older family members whom I may feel are more susceptible in this time. I'm glad your son is well also. It's very scary, situations like that. I understand your point about the facilities though, the bathrooms, concessions, and such. Thank you for the well written and thought out responses. :thumbsup:

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Posted (edited)

Since we still have a week left in June, and all of July and August ahead of us, I think it will get more interesting as the virus continues to spread out of control.

Edited by DefenseWins

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9 hours ago, H2o said:

For all of the people going on about this, how many times have you been sick, went to the doctor, and the response you get from them is, "You have a virus and it will just have to run it's course" as the result of your visit? Who honestly knows what the heck most of us have contracted over the years? Out of the 9,273,773 who've contracted it there have been 477,807 deaths. That is death rate for the infected of 5.1%. That is with 40% of those deaths coming from nursing homes and assisted living facilities, even with the numbers being skewed all over. This lines more up with a flu like situation due the age range of the typically more critical cases. To compare letting people go out in public to that of drunk driving is completely dumb. This is the first time in the history of man the world has been shut down by a virus as such. Fear for your lives, don't interact with people, wear a mask, you're selfish for wanting to go about a normal life, you could be the reason someone dies, you can't be in the hospital with a sick loved one, if said loved one dies you can't have a proper funeral where everyone gets to pay their respects, businesses need to be shut down, people's livelihoods destroyed, but this is all necessary, right? Seems legit. At the same time "peaceful protests" and gatherings of thousands in the street standing shoulder to shoulder screaming like a bunch of idiots is alright though. You can't open that business, but it's alright for people to run around burning businesses to the ground. You can't have a proper funeral for your loved one who died of cancer, alone, because the doctors wouldn't let his family be by his side, but we can have a huge gathering that is nationally televised for the funeral of some. Normal people, yes, you law abiding citizens, shouldn't be going out to hang in groups larger than X amount of people, but it's cool if you take over X amount of blocks in a city and have thousands all hang around each other because it a "love fest" for the summer of 2020. If you can't see through all of this I can't help you. Is the Coronavirus real? Absolutely. I know people who've had it. Some had no idea they had it, while others were actually sick. Sars, Mers, H1N1, Ebola, Malaria, Influenza, and a host of others are all real as well. People have died from those all over the world. None of these have ever shut the world down so to speak. We went from flatten the curve, to we need a cure for everything to go back to normal. Riiiiight. Things can't be the same until we have worldwide vaccination. Riiiiiight. You need to have some kind of mark or carry papers that prove you have been vaccinated. Riiiiiight. We're going to install this Covid-19 tracker app on your phones, and not tell you about it when we do it, but use it so we can track every person's whereabouts who is stupid enough to activate it. Seems normal, right? Like I said before, I love football and the Bills. The more this drags though, and with all of the rest of this stuff going on, the less and less I care about any kind of sports in general. If people want to go to games then so be it. If you want to walk around with a measuring tape making sure people are exactly 6ft away while wearing a cloth mask, which actually protects you from nothing, then so be it. To each their own, but don't try to demonize others by acting like what you have chosen to believe should be gospel for everyone.  

Like Luke Skywalker said, Everything you said is wrong.

The mortality rate for COVID will be incredibly difficult to know because the true denominator for those infected is an unknown. However the best estimates is that the mortality rate is probably twice that of influenza. That the highest mortality rates are in elderly and comorbid patients does not change the rate.

Masks are not meant to protect the person wearing the mask. They are meant to decrease the transmission of virus by people that are shedding the virus either asymptomatic or symptomatic. 

The 1918 pandemic killed 50 million people worldwide and 675,000 in the US. Many of the same measures proposed now were used in 1918 as well including mandatory masking.

It's not gospel. Its science. Its science with lots of holes in the data and an evolving understanding of the data. But it is fact based not gospel. 

The whole point of combating the pandemic, is that to each thier own is not acceptable.  I'm sure 30 days ago you would have referenced Sweden's approach. But it is now recognized that Sweden's approach was a total failure.

I truly hope there is football this fall, but simply opening economies in Arizona, Texas, and Florida has shown how complex and risky the process can be. 

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On 6/23/2020 at 4:26 PM, Jamie Nails said:

As an out of state season- California- season ticket holder, I'm curious to know how this is going to work. Let's say that allow 20K into games to start the year, how are season ticket holders going to go to games? Are they going to randomly assign you 1, 2 or 3 games to attend? Also, I'm preparing to spend a lot more money getting into away games. I think we should just call our tailgate a protest and we'll be set.  

 

wow.   Cal season ticker holder!!   how many games do you make it tk?   That’s dedication!

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48 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Like Luke Skywalker said, Everything you said is wrong.

The mortality rate for COVID will be incredibly difficult to know because the true denominator for those infected is an unknown. However the best estimates is that the mortality rate is probably twice that of influenza. That the highest mortality rates are in elderly and comorbid patients does not change the rate.

Masks are not meant to protect the person wearing the mask. They are meant to decrease the transmission of virus by people that are shedding the virus either asymptomatic or symptomatic. 

The 1918 pandemic killed 50 million people worldwide and 675,000 in the US. Many of the same measures proposed now were used in 1918 as well including mandatory masking.

It's not gospel. Its science. Its science with lots of holes in the data and an evolving understanding of the data. But it is fact based not gospel. 

The whole point of combating the pandemic, is that to each thier own is not acceptable.  I'm sure 30 days ago you would have referenced Sweden's approach. But it is now recognized that Sweden's approach was a total failure.

I truly hope there is football this fall, but simply opening economies in Arizona, Texas, and Florida has shown how complex and risky the process can be. 

I would also argue the entire numerator is not know because of chinese secrecy and death mis Iding.   Lots of heart attacks, PEs and Brain aneurysms caused by covid 19 because of clotting it causes.  Best estimates are to tract hospitalizations and deaths above the norm to calculate the under reporting of deaths and when this thing actually took off some reports stating possibly last august in China based on increased death rates and hospitalizations. 

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On 6/23/2020 at 5:17 PM, PetermansRedemption said:

Never thought I’d say this, but being in New York may actually work in the Bills favor here. By September COVID should be A small blip on New York’s radar. Barring any cases coming in from other states and being uncontrolled outbreaks. Real question, will the Jets and Giants have to abide by New Jersey’s attendance capacity limits? I would assume so. 

People can travel freely within the US. 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/23/2020 at 5:12 PM, H2o said:

If anything, I think they should let the fans themselves decide. Offer a waiver of liability and let in as many as want to come. Don't allow any kind of fan, player interactions like we see so often, but let them choose for themselves whether they want to be there. 

 

I like that thought. Of course, anyone who doesn't want to go should be able to get a full refund without losing their season ticket spot

Edited by first_and_ten
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According to this article in another thread  
""the first six to eight rows of seating in every stadium -- including on-field suites -- will be off limits to fans this season."  So the NFL is clearly already making some league wide attendance decisions.

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6 hours ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

Isn't our country so wonderful as to allow freedom of expression as stupid as this

Isn't our country wonderful as to allow freedom of expression as moronic as this

 

really??

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On 6/23/2020 at 6:03 PM, MJS said:

 

Maybe look up all of the negative consequences of economic collapse and quarentine, including rising suicide and death rates, increased domestic violence rates, decreased mental health, etc.

 

For every 1% increase in unemployment there is an increase of 37,000 deaths (including 20,000 heart attacks), 920 suicides, 650 homicides, 4,000 state mental hospital admissions and 3,300 state prison admissions. Unemployment has increased by about 8-10 percent, so we are talking 300,000 to 400,000 deaths due to shutting down the economy and people losing their jobs. What's the death toll for COVID-19 so far?

 

And I want to watch football.


Let’s assume your data is reasonably accurate. Does this have to be one or the other?
 

There was an economic collapse 12 years ago. These issues should have presented then. Should our state and federal govts be prepared to offer extended mental health, outreach, etc. when this is anticipated? Let’s try to manage both effectively and provide help to those that need it.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/23/2020 at 6:03 PM, MJS said:

 

Maybe look up all of the negative consequences of economic collapse and quarentine, including rising suicide and death rates, increased domestic violence rates, decreased mental health, etc.

 

For every 1% increase in unemployment there is an increase of 37,000 deaths (including 20,000 heart attacks), 920 suicides, 650 homicides, 4,000 state mental hospital admissions and 3,300 state prison admissions. Unemployment has increased by about 8-10 percent, so we are talking 300,000 to 400,000 deaths due to shutting down the economy and people losing their jobs. What's the death toll for COVID-19 so far?

That's mostly due to economic anxiety.  We're in a different situation as about 70% of those who lost their job are making more sitting at home doing nothing thanks to the jacked federal unemployment benefits.  Most expect to get either their old jobs back or similar paying one's.  I highly doubt you're going to see a significant increase in any of those (yet alone the ridiculously high numbers you posted).  In fact, we've come to a point where our government is considering paying people to go back to work.  It's the small business owners that got screwed over the most.

Edited by Doc Brown

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

That's mostly due to economic anxiety.  We're in a different situation as about 70% of those who lost their job are making more sitting at home doing nothing thanks to the jacked federal unemployment benefits.  Most expect to get either their old jobs back or similar paying one's.  I highly doubt you're going to see a significant increase in any of those (yet alone the ridiculously high numbers you posted).  In fact, we've come to a point where our government is considering paying people to go back to work.  It's the small business owners that got screwed over the most.


Where are all these people going to get jobs?  If that’s what they think, they are in for a rude awakening. 
 

Nobody is hiring and companies are still furloughing and laying off left and right. 
 

 

On 6/23/2020 at 5:31 PM, MiltonWaddams said:

FIFY

Why would that be a Karen post? Is it because the country is doing so well overall right now and really cutting down the spread of a killer virus? Is it because people are listening to the doctors and scientists who are telling them how to avoid the spread?


 

Equating fans going to a game, likely observing some kind of seat buffer/face-mask rules to drunk drivers is bs - posts of those ilk deserve nothing but mocking for their idiotic display of fear mongering and false equivalence.   
 

Some of us do actually practice social distancing, wear masks in public and know people who have had COVID.  Yet we are still capable of thinking for ourselves and not being entirely reliant upon the media narrative fear stream you seem to allow control of your thoughts on a daily basis. 

 

Edited by SCBills

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8 minutes ago, SCBills said:


Where are all these people going to get jobs?  If that’s what they think, they are in for a rude awakening. 
 

Nobody is hiring and companies are still furloughing and laying off left and right. 
 

 


 

Equating fans going to a game, likely observing some kind of seat buffer/face-mask rules to drunk drivers is bs - posts of those ilk deserve nothing but mocking for their idiotic display of fear mongering and false equivalence.   
 

Some of us do actually practice social distancing, wear masks in public and know people who have had COVID.  Yet we are still capable of thinking for ourselves and not being entirely reliant upon the media narrative fear stream you seem to allow control of your thoughts on a daily basis. 

 

You know me so well. Do you offer life coaching?

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