VirginiaMike Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 I believe that the Bills have found their franchise QB for the next 10 years in Josh Allen. This year should provide either the verification of that or the fallacy. That made start to think about teams that have been lucky enough (or are great planners) that have had back-to-back franchise QBs. Makes me jealous thinking about it. The Bills have not had a pair. Here's my list (it's a short one) of teams with back-to-back franchise QBs: Green Bay Packers - Farve and then Rogers SF 49ers - Montana and then Young Indianapolis Colts - Manning and then Luck I can't come up with any other pairs that come close to these three. Thoughts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) Pats****** are not on the list ? Also Ravens did win a SB with Flacco and now with Lamar are one of the favorites to win a SB Edited June 13, 2020 by Putin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, Putin said: Pats****** are not on the list ? Also Ravens did win a SB with Flacco and now with Lamar are one of the favorites to win a SB I HATE,HATE,HATE to throw the Cheatriots any props but Bledsoe and Brady should fit your description. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Well said Putin. Back in his prime Bledsoe was good enough to get them to a SB, even though they lost, and there is no argument about Brady. The Ravens might have it if Lamar Jackson ends up as there franchise guy, as Flacco was their franchise guy for 10 years, won a SB, and spanked the Pats a couple of times in the playoffs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: Well said Putin. Back in his prime Bledsoe was good enough to get them to a SB, even though they lost, and there is no argument about Brady. The Ravens might have it if Lamar Jackson ends up as there franchise guy, as Flacco was their franchise guy for 10 years, won a SB, and spanked the Pats a couple of times in the playoffs. Still not buying LJ. Watching him suck throwing outside the hash marks in the Titan’s game , I feel like last year was his flash in the pan year. Not just because of him, either. It seemed like a Magic year for the Ravens which I’m not sure they repeat. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Alex Smith - Patrick Mahomes 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) It's arguable on both ends, but IMO Romo and Prescott fit, though hopefully Prescott will regress and have me looking like an idiot for saying this. Should've been Kemp and Lamonica, but that didn't work out. Edited June 13, 2020 by Thurman#1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Good catch Ralph as Alex Smith doesn’t get the credit he deserves. He was on a horrible SF team, but seemed to hit his rhythm in KC, and I doubt anyone is not thinking Mahomes is a franchise guy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Just now, machine gun kelly said: Good catch Ralph as Alex Smith doesn’t get the credit he deserves. He was on a horrible SF team, but seemed to hit his rhythm in KC, and I doubt anyone is not thinking Mahomes is a franchise guy. ? I needed to look up some stats before blazing Alex Smith into Franchise Territory. But I think he fits. 50-26 Win/Loss Record 4 out of 5 Seasons in KC with Playoff Appearances Several Pro Bowls He was definitely KCs “Franchise” QB. As for Mahomes...he’s already a HOF QB. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said: Still not buying LJ. Watching him suck throwing outside the hash marks in the Titan’s game , I feel like last year was his flash in the pan year. Not just because of him, either. It seemed like a Magic year for the Ravens which I’m not sure they repeat. Agreed. I don't think any team will ever win a Super Bowl with Lamar Jackson as their starting QB. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Fair points on Lamar as it is probably too early to tell, but if they keep constructing a team around his skills, he has a chance. Ravens fans would shoot me, but I’ll take Allen over Lamar as I sincerely believe Allen eventually has a higher ceiling. If Lamar doesn’t improve as a passer, he can only survive as a running QB for so long as lol at Cam. He sparked quite a bit last year, so like Allen he needs to take a big step this year. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirginiaMike Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 36 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: Well said Putin. Back in his prime Bledsoe was good enough to get them to a SB, even though they lost, and there is no argument about Brady. The Ravens might have it if Lamar Jackson ends up as there franchise guy, as Flacco was their franchise guy for 10 years, won a SB, and spanked the Pats a couple of times in the playoffs. I'll buy Bledsoe then Brady, but it's too early to make a call on Flacco then Jackson. I need both QB's to be successful for their team for a number of years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) Really depends on what you consider to be a franchise QB. Flacco wasn’t anything special but he was literally their franchise QB for his entire career pretty much and Lamar is the reigning MVP so that seems like a good choice to me. Romo to Dak is an easy yes. In a similar vein to the Flacco one, could argue that Dalton to Burrow might be as Dalton was literally a long term franchise QB for them. Certainly nowhere near as strong as the combos in the OP though. Likewise with the Smith/Mahomes combo. Edited June 13, 2020 by DCOrange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, Gugny said: Agreed. I don't think any team will ever win a Super Bowl with Lamar Jackson as their starting QB. I haven’t been in the Lamar camp either...I feel like he has too many shortcomings as an outside-the-hashmarks passer and his playing style leads one to believe that sooner or later he’ll get hurt, but I do give him credit for the season he had last year. I will be paying close attention to how teams defend that offense this season, given how Buffalo limited their effectiveness and Tennessee really exposed them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Just now, eball said: I haven’t been in the Lamar camp either...I feel like he has too many shortcomings as an outside-the-hashmarks passer and his playing style leads one to believe that sooner or later he’ll get hurt, but I do give him credit for the season he had last year. I will be paying close attention to how teams defend that offense this season, given how Buffalo limited their effectiveness and Tennessee really exposed them. Absolutely must give credit where it's due. The kid had a phenomenal regular season and no one can take that away from him. But .. for the second consecutive year, a top-notch defense in the playoffs made him look silly. He is too limited and too predictable. Baltimore had one shot to win it all with him and they blew it. Window closed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, eball said: I haven’t been in the Lamar camp either...I feel like he has too many shortcomings as an outside-the-hashmarks passer and his playing style leads one to believe that sooner or later he’ll get hurt, but I do give him credit for the season he had last year. I will be paying close attention to how teams defend that offense this season, given how Buffalo limited their effectiveness and Tennessee really exposed them. I think saying Tennessee exposed their offense is a bit of a stretch. If the receivers/tight ends had simply caught the passes they caught all year, there’s a very real chance they win that game despite their defense getting demolished by Henry. The Bills undoubtedly did a great job defensively against them. The playoff game I would tend to say is a good sign for Lamar and the Ravens though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Packers are going to make it back to back to back I'm guessing. This lends to the draft QBs even when you have one crowd. Look at the pats too. Could have easily had one with Jimmy g and now have stidham to give a shot. This is why i like fromm choice. You just never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Romo to Prescott, even though neither is in the elite category Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Jim Kelly- Todd Collins....Uhh wait a minute 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Buffalo Boy said: Still not buying LJ. Watching him suck throwing outside the hash marks in the Titan’s game , I feel like last year was his flash in the pan year. Not just because of him, either. It seemed like a Magic year for the Ravens which I’m not sure they repeat. Oh I agree 100% and i am not a fan of LJ AT ALL , it wouldn’t surprise me at all if that gimmicky offense is going to hit a wall this year , They were able to do what they do/pound the ball because of a great defense but we all saw what happens when they get behind and LJ has to throw the ball (not good Bob not good ) 6 minutes ago, H2o said: Romo to Prescott, even though neither is in the elite category How many playoff games have they both won in the last 15 years ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 hours ago, VirginiaMike said: I believe that the Bills have found their franchise QB for the next 10 years in Josh Allen. This year should provide either the verification of that or the fallacy. That made start to think about teams that have been lucky enough (or are great planners) that have had back-to-back franchise QBs. Makes me jealous thinking about it. The Bills have not had a pair. Here's my list (it's a short one) of teams with back-to-back franchise QBs: Green Bay Packers - Farve and then Rogers SF 49ers - Montana and then Young Indianapolis Colts - Manning and then Luck I can't come up with any other pairs that come close to these three. Thoughts? Packers just did it again. 1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said: Good catch Ralph as Alex Smith doesn’t get the credit he deserves. He was on a horrible SF team, but seemed to hit his rhythm in KC, and I doubt anyone is not thinking Mahomes is a franchise guy. "Horrible SF team"?? They went 13-3 and to the NFCC and lost in OT with a guy named Alex Smith at QB. Same team (11-4-1) barely lost the next year's SB the with Kaepernick and Smith. That's a hot take, sir... Anyway, I wouldn't count KC trading for an 8 year vet who they got rid of as soon as they could in favor of Mahomes as "finding a franchise QB". Did the Skins just "find him" too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talley56 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said: I HATE,HATE,HATE to throw the Cheatriots any props but Bledsoe and Brady should fit your description. Yeah, particularly if we are going to include Luck as he never made a SB while Bledsoe. Also, would Bob Griese-Dan Marino be close enough to be added to this list? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 So...how are we defining the term "franchise QB" anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said: Still not buying LJ. Watching him suck throwing outside the hash marks in the Titan’s game , I feel like last year was his flash in the pan year. Not just because of him, either. It seemed like a Magic year for the Ravens which I’m not sure they repeat. Completely agree. Bum only had 500 total yards. Why didn’t that bum win the MVP as a rookie? Why couldn’t that bum win the Heisman as a freshman? Polian was right. He should switch positions. 2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: Fair points on Lamar as it is probably too early to tell, but if they keep constructing a team around his skills, he has a chance. Ravens fans would shoot me, but I’ll take Allen over Lamar as I sincerely believe Allen eventually has a higher ceiling. If Lamar doesn’t improve as a passer, he can only survive as a running QB for so long as lol at Cam. He sparked quite a bit last year, so like Allen he needs to take a big step this year. Why does Allen have a higher ceiling? Honestly. I’m not even knocking Allen here but I feel like this board is so quick to put Jackson down. He won a MVP at 23. He won a Heisman trophy. He had been a better passer on every level than Allen and against harder competition. His best receiverS were a rookie who missed a bunch of games and Willie Snead. it’s just funny that folks act like it’s a such given that Allen can improve but not the MVP, who has been better than Allen every single year they have played football. And isn’t Allen a running qb? Edited June 13, 2020 by C.Biscuit97 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: Good catch Ralph as Alex Smith doesn’t get the credit he deserves. He was on a horrible SF team, but seemed to hit his rhythm in KC, and I doubt anyone is not thinking Mahomes is a franchise guy. Smith has career highs of 26, 23, and 20 tds. He’s a good game manager but the definition of completely replaceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Completely agree. Bum only had 500 total yards. Why didn’t that bum win the MVP as a rookie? Why couldn’t that bum win the Heisman as a freshman? Polian was right. He should switch positions. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said: ? Interesting you choose Kramer when discussing Lamar. ?? and I’m going to let you in on a secret. I LOVE Heisman winning, MVP qbs!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Interesting you choose Kramer when discussing Lamar. ?? and I’m going to let you in on a secret. I LOVE Heisman winning, MVP qbs!!! Yes maybe he can become the next RG 3 Edited June 13, 2020 by Putin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Not exactly back to back and not all exactly franchise guys, but Staubach, Aikman, Romo, and Prescott is an impressive run. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Rubes said: So...how are we defining the term "franchise QB" anyway? My definition is start a minimum of 50 games in 5 seasons for the same squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said: Still not buying LJ. Watching him suck throwing outside the hash marks in the Titan’s game , I feel like last year was his flash in the pan year. Not just because of him, either. It seemed like a Magic year for the Ravens which I’m not sure they repeat. You’re buying Bledsoe but not Lamar? Odd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Someday Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 How aboit the Rams going from Warner to Bulger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Packers just did it again. "Horrible SF team"?? They went 13-3 and to the NFCC and lost in OT with a guy named Alex Smith at QB. Same team (11-4-1) barely lost the next year's SB the with Kaepernick and Smith. That's a hot take, sir... Anyway, I wouldn't count KC trading for an 8 year vet who they got rid of as soon as they could in favor of Mahomes as "finding a franchise QB". Did the Skins just "find him" too? 50-26, 3 pro bowls, and 4 division titles in 5 seasons? That’s a franchise guy for the Chiefs. With SF, he was 38-36 with no pro bowls in 8 seasons. He was never a franchise QB for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Completely agree. Bum only had 500 total yards. Why didn’t that bum win the MVP as a rookie? Why couldn’t that bum win the Heisman as a freshman? Polian was right. He should switch positions. Why does Allen have a higher ceiling? Honestly. I’m not even knocking Allen here but I feel like this board is so quick to put Jackson down. He won a MVP at 23. He won a Heisman trophy. He had been a better passer on every level than Allen and against harder competition. His best receiverS were a rookie who missed a bunch of games and Willie Snead. it’s just funny that folks act like it’s a such given that Allen can improve but not the MVP, who has been better than Allen every single year they have played football. And isn’t Allen a running qb? I don’t understand the “higher ceiling” trope with Allen. He’s a good athlete at the QB position, but he’s not an elite athlete compared to guys like Newton, Jackson, Mahomes, Wilson, Watson, or Murray. He’s in the next tier with guys like Tannehill (played WR in college), Lock (high D-1 caliber basketball player), and Prescott. I’d probably put him at the top of that second group, but there’s a pretty clear step down after freakish measurable guys like Newton, Jackson, and Watson and the guys who could have played in the MLB like Mahomes, Wilson, and Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Rubes said: So...how are we defining the term "franchise QB" anyway? Good question. Fergy was replaced by Vince Ferragamo (Quit Laughing!?) All Vincent did was lead his previous team from the trash heap to a home Super Bowl and nearly held off the Team of the Decade to win! So, was Fergy a “franchise QB”?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 51 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: You’re buying Bledsoe but not Lamar? Odd Bledsoe has a much stronger arm than LJ. One of the reasons I’m high on Josh. When LJ gets to a Super Bowl we can talk. Love me some cannon armed, prototypical pocket passing QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: You’re buying Bledsoe but not Lamar? Odd Bledsoe did it for a lot of years at a near HOF level. Lamar has done it for one. Lamar is going to be tested increasingly in the coming couple of seasons, as teams game plan for him and get used to him. Also, defenses will adjust because there's Lamar and Kyler and to a lesser extent Mayfield and probably a few more. End of the day, you have to be a superior leader (which Lamar may be), a superior thrower, and a superior student of the game. Lamar hasn't shown he's there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 42 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said: Bledsoe has a much stronger arm than LJ. One of the reasons I’m high on Josh. When LJ gets to a Super Bowl we can talk. Love me some cannon armed, prototypical pocket passing QBs. 10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Bledsoe did it for a lot of years at a near HOF level. Lamar has done it for one. Lamar is going to be tested increasingly in the coming couple of seasons, as teams game plan for him and get used to him. Also, defenses will adjust because there's Lamar and Kyler and to a lesser extent Mayfield and probably a few more. End of the day, you have to be a superior leader (which Lamar may be), a superior thrower, and a superior student of the game. Lamar hasn't shown he's there yet. Lamar is 19-3 as a starter with 2 of those losses being against the Mahomes and the Chiefs...and he’s 22. He’s already far superior to Bledsoe’ best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Billl said: Lamar is 19-3 as a starter with 2 of those losses being against the Mahomes and the Chiefs...and he’s 22. He’s already far superior to Bledsoe’ best. flash in the pan phrase of flash a thing or person whose sudden but brief success is not repeated or repeatable. Maybe he goes on to have an amazing career. But it will take ten years minimum before we know. Bledsoe didn’t miss a ton of games.... running around like a chicken with its head cut off is not a recipe for a long NFL career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Billl said: I don’t understand the “higher ceiling” trope with Allen. He’s a good athlete at the QB position, but he’s not an elite athlete compared to guys like Newton, Jackson, Mahomes, Wilson, Watson, or Murray. He’s in the next tier with guys like Tannehill (played WR in college), Lock (high D-1 caliber basketball player), and Prescott. I’d probably put him at the top of that second group, but there’s a pretty clear step down after freakish measurable guys like Newton, Jackson, and Watson and the guys who could have played in the MLB like Mahomes, Wilson, and Murray. I disagree Allen is absolutely in that top tier athlete category. He’s actually a superior athlete to Watson, Mahomes and Wilson. If you look at the next gen stats he was second to only Lamar in top end speed (at least I think). He was at like 21 MPH. Allen was also a 3 sport star in high school. He may not be the QB that those others are yet but he absolutely is in the elite athlete tier. This chart is a touch dated but he’s as big and fast as Cam: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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