Buffalo Sabres & NHL 2020-2021

[oldmanfan]

We have to hope Adams and Granato are like Beane and McD.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

16 minutes ago, Rico said:

Maybe Pegs was able to remove the Curse of Ralph from the Bills, but that force was just too powerful to leave town.  

 

I think it might finally happen. I think Pegula thought Kruger and Botteril could be like Beane and McDermott and could do the same thing with the Sabres, except they weren't ( i think Kruger might be one worst coaches ever). Hopefully now Adams and Granato can get the job done.

 

 

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

We have to hope Adams and Granato are like Beane and McD.

 

I was thinking the same thing.

 

 

[ChevyVanMiller]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

We have to hope Adams and Granato are like Beane and McD.

That is truly the only hope to be good anytime in the near future.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

That is truly the only hope to be good anytime in the near future.

I think successful pro sports teams have to have synchrony with the coach and front office.  They have to share a philosophy of what type of team they want, so the correct players are brought in to match their vision.  The word process gets picked on a lot, but process works.  Having a specific mindset for how to build the team and focusing all efforts on that is the only way to move forward, otherwise you just spin your wheels.

 

I think the Pegulas finally get that after finding it with the Bills.  I like what I see so far with Adams and Granato.  They are going with younger guys, guys who want to be Sabres.  They are bringing in some vets to complement and hold down spots until the younger guys take over.  Building with the draft vs. high priced FAs.  A culture where if you don’t buy in or want to be around, then see ya.  

 

Letting guys like Risto and Sam move on was good.  They were never going to buy in.  Eichel won’t be going for a while, no one will trade for him given his injury and for what Adams rightly will demand.  But if he comes to training camp, then Adams and Granato need to make it abundantly clear that he needs to buy in.  If not, sit his butt on the bench.  And give the C to one who earns it.

 

Next year won’t be a playoff year, but better than last year I’ll bet.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

54 minutes ago, Rico said:

Maybe Pegs was able to remove the Curse of Ralph from the Bills, but that force was just too powerful to leave town.  

Does that mean they have to sacrifice a nubile intern to the pagan idol Brandono?  🤔

[Rico]

1 minute ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Does that mean they have to sacrifice a nubile intern to the pagan idol Brandono?  🤔

Couldn’t hurt. I think it’s easier to just take his statue down like Penn State did to Joe-pa.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

They had all the talent to win but couldn't, they have the money, the facilities but yet they have a losing culture. I thought with Eichel , Rinhardt, Oreiley , Okposo and everyone else we would start winning but it didn't happen and there are lots of explanations going around but i really think Tanking put the losing culture in the locker room and it hasnt left. Its pretty sad that the team that was losing on purpose and had less talent than last years team was a better team.

 

However with Adams and Granato  i think we finally have the right guys in there to turn this around, even though they have little experience. Granato understands how that you cant run a team like a dictatorship like 20 years ago and what hes looking for in players that will help them develop faster. With Adams he is showing he is no push over and has candidly stated he isnt trading Eichel for peanuts and he will get the better deal in the long run. He also got good deals for Rinehart and Risto, which i believe bodes well for the Sabres future.

 

 

 

All the coaches have been duds and Tim Murray absolutely traded the farm for magic beans. But I agree "Grana-dams" (trademark pending) are moving in the right direction. But they are at rock bottom today.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

All the coaches have been duds and Tim Murray absolutely traded the farm for magic beans. But I agree "Grana-dams" (trademark pending) are moving in the right direction. But they are at rock bottom today.

 

i cant blame Murray as im sure he was told to sell the farm, unless it was his idea than he should have been fired then. 

 

i bought into the tanking hype thinking it was a good thing. Practically speaking it should work but it doesnt take into account the mental damage that it does to an athlete to become a loser, it goes against everything you want and are taught as a competitor and i believe is what has led us to this knew low despite the talent.

 

Tanking Better never happens again. I wanted McDermott to tank but his first year, but now realize what a mistake that would have been as he never would been able to install his culture and process had he done so.

[QCity]

It's not culture, it's goaltending. They need goaltending. They haven't had a top flight netminder since Miller was shipped out. They only player close to above average in net was the last 2 years of Ullmark, but he got hurt twice. It's really not that different from the nearly 2 decades of mediocrity the Bills went through, as the problem with the Bills was always about the QB but they just couldn't get it right. They were always trying to win without a QB, and the Sabres have been trying to win without goaltending for the past 8 years. Based on their recent front office decisions, it looks like they will continue with that strategy. It's maddening.

[May Day 10]

Its bad decisions, not the 2013-2015 'tank'.

 

There is also a culture of losing

 

There are also bad attitudes.

 

There are terrible hires and people with no business in their positions (Adams)

 

Many things combined to make this the worst-run pro sports organization.  How come the Astros dont have a 'culture of losing'?

 

 

Nothing will be fixed until it is fixed.  Adams has accomplished nothing but steward one of the worst seasons (again) in franchise history.   He failed to anything with goaltending, they had none under contract a little while ago, and signed a 40 year old (I had no idea he was still in the NHL), and a complete nobody sharing a name with the Kingdom on Frozen, both for the league minimum.

 

 

The organization has 2 modes under Pegula:  Go for it at all costs and waste all the cap and burn through assets.... or tear it all down until you hit magma.   There is no in between because Pegula is a simpleton and running the show.

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

21 minutes ago, QCity said:

It's not culture, it's goaltending. They need goaltending. They haven't had a top flight netminder since Miller was shipped out. They only player close to above average in net was the last 2 years of Ullmark, but he got hurt twice. It's really not that different from the nearly 2 decades of mediocrity the Bills went through, as the problem with the Bills was always about the QB but they just couldn't get it right. They were always trying to win without a QB, and the Sabres have been trying to win without goaltending for the past 8 years. Based on their recent front office decisions, it looks like they will continue with that strategy. It's maddening.

 

I just cant put goaltenders on the same level as QB as they dictate everything on the field and goalies just need to stop shots, which is very important but not to that level. Also its pretty clear from players who have left the team that there is something wrong team wide just not the goalies. We've had great goalies and still haven't won and when we had the french connection i couldn't even tell you who hte goalie was. 

 

To me the players havent been physical enough around the nets nor aggressive enough getting after the puck. Now we just cant have bangers , we need guys who can be aggressive AND score.

 

 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CR8KA1SDahH/

 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

[Buffalo Barbarian]

25 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

Its bad decisions, not the 2013-2015 'tank'.

 

There is also a culture of losing

 

There are also bad attitudes.

 

There are terrible hires and people with no business in their positions (Adams)

 

Many things combined to make this the worst-run pro sports organization.  How come the Astros dont have a 'culture of losing'?

 

 

Nothing will be fixed until it is fixed.  Adams has accomplished nothing but steward one of the worst seasons (again) in franchise history.   He failed to anything with goaltending, they had none under contract a little while ago, and signed a 40 year old (I had no idea he was still in the NHL), and a complete nobody sharing a name with the Kingdom on Frozen, both for the league minimum.

 

 

The organization has 2 modes under Pegula:  Go for it at all costs and waste all the cap and burn through assets.... or tear it all down until you hit magma.   There is no in between because Pegula is a simpleton and running the show.

 

 

I definitely can agree there have been bad decisions and hires and the tank was one of them. I think Adams is doing what he needs to get better right now and i believe they think  uka ... Will be the guy and these other guys are just stop gaps until he is ready. You cant blame last year or this mess on Adams as he inherited it but is doing what he can to turn it around and not wasting huge dollars on free agents , which rarely works out, is what he should be doing right now to rebuild. TRading risto and Rinehart were great deals for us and NOT trading Eichel right now is definitely the right move as he will get a better deal from some desperate team who wants to make a Stanley cup run at the trade deadline.

 

There are no guarantees but i believe Adams is making the right moves to make this team a contender. Unfortunately its going to take a couple years to get there.

[BillsFan4]

 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by BillsFan4

[PromoTheRobot]

6 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

Jack and his agent going scorched earth. Not a smart move. There were already questions about his attitude.

[Beast]

Eichel and his agents can eat a bag.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Like he can't play with this "injury" Hell its probably healed by now. Hey Jack is you want to get traded it will go better if you actually play well on the ice. Other teams see your whining and aren't go to want you either.

 

 

[Mr. K]

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist but its almost like the NHL wants the team gone. 

[BillsFan4]

Eichel can sit for 5 years for all I care. Sabres can not cave here. They have to hold strong and not trade him for a crap return.

 

If I were Adams, I’d tell Eichel to knock off the **** Immediately.

Tell him he’s hurting his trade value and if he ever actually wants to be traded to STFU. Because he’s not going anywhere until they get proper value and the more he pulls this crap the longer it’ll take.

 

If what the agents said is true and all these doctors are/were in agreement, Why aren’t they going to injury arbitration anyway? Why handle it through the media? 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by BillsFan4

[BillsFan4]

12 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Jack and his agent going scorched earth. Not a smart move. There were already questions about his attitude.

 

[BillsFan4]

 

 

Im very curious to know if this surgery would void the injury insurance on Eichel’s contract. I’ve wondered for a while if that’s partly why the Sabres don’t want it done. But I don’t see why Buffalo would be concerned if they plan to trade him right away anyway. Wonder if it has anything to do with other potential trade partners not wanting him to have the surgery either.

 

 

edit - on 2nd listen, this guy says a number of misleading or conflicting things.

 

He says that spinal fusion has a 25% chance of needing a 2nd surgery within 10 years. Then minutes later said “it’s more likely than not he would need a 2nd procedure with a spinal fusion”.

No, there’s a 75% chance he wouldn’t. That’s 3 in 4 patients...

 

He later says that with the fusion Eichel will most likely need at least 3 additional surgeries (because of this 25% risk of needing a 2nd surgery). 

 

He then later says spinal fusion has a 70% chance to return to sports. Then minutes later says 80-85%.

 

He also admits that he wouldn’t recommend this surgery for an NFL player because of the impacts they take and how risky it would be, but says in the NHL it’s different because they are on ice. 
 

He also says that there are issue with this disc replacement surgery in the NHL CBA and Eichel might not even be able to be cleared to play after having this surgery!
 

He seems more like a salesman than a doctor. I feel like he has a vested interest in having an NHL player get this surgery.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by BillsFan4

[PromoTheRobot]

12 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Like he can't play with this "injury" Hell its probably healed by now. Hey Jack is you want to get traded it will go better if you actually play well on the ice. Other teams see your whining and aren't go to want you either.

 

 

There was a tweet of him skating with Bruins players in Boston.

[PromoTheRobot]

41 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Eichel can sit for 5 years for all I care. Sabres can not cave here. They have to hold strong and not trade him for a crap return.

 

If I were Adams, I’d tell Eichel to knock off the **** Immediately.

Tell him he’s hurting his trade value and if he ever actually wants to be traded to STFU. Because he’s not going anywhere until they get proper value and the more he pulls this crap the longer it’ll take.

 

If what the agents said is true and all these doctors are/were in agreement, Why aren’t they going to injury arbitration anyway? Why handle it through the media? 

 

 

Because they would lose in arbitration. It's part of the CBA. No gray area. Sabres have final say. So they are negotiating though the media. 

 

20 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

good listen.
 

 

Im very curious to know if this surgery would void the injury insurance on Eichel’s contract. I’ve wondered for a while if that’s partly why the Sabres don’t want it done. But I don’t see why Buffalo would be concerned if they plan to trade him right away anyway. Wonder if it has anything to do with other potential trade partners not wanting him to have the surgery either.

 

Any medical procedure Jack gets that isn't approved by the Sabres voids his contract. I don't know if it voids their rights to him. This procedure has 70% success rate for "return to sports." But it's not clear if they mean playing golf with your buddies or taking hits at full speed.

 

So we're talking a 1/3 chance of ending Jack's career. Would you sign off on that if your were GM?

[BillsFan4]

20 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Because they would lose in arbitration. It's part of the CBA. No gray area. Sabres have final say. So they are negotiating though the media. 

 

 

Any medical procedure Jack gets that isn't approved by the Sabres voids his contract. I don't know if it voids their rights to him. This procedure has 70% success rate for "return to sports." But it's not clear if they mean playing golf with your buddies or taking hits at full speed.

 

So we're talking a 1/3 chance of ending Jack's career. Would you sign off on that if your were GM?

agree about arbitration.
 

I meant if the Sabres approve the disc replacement surgery, would the insurance company still cover the cost of Eichel’s contract if he could not return to play or was injured playing in the NHL (after the surgery). If it would void the injury insurance then the Pegulas would be on the hook for Eichel’s full contract even if he could never play again. Right now, the contract has injury insurance. If Eichel couldn’t play again the Sabres aren’t on the hook for the money owed.

Im sure if he has the spinal fusion he would still have that injury insurance on his contract. Would he still have it if he has the replacement? (if Buffalo approved the surgery)

 

As far as letting him have the surgery, I guess it depends on a lot of different things I don’t know the answer to. Do other teams approve of this surgery or are they telling Buffalo they wouldn’t trade for Eichel if he has it? Does it void the medical injury insurance on Eichel’s contract? What is the success rate for “return to sports” for the spinal fusion? Is it 75%? 80? 90? What are the benefits and risks of each? What are the specific reasons the Sabres medical staff doesn’t want him having this surgery? Is the main reason because it hasn’t been done on an NHL player and/or that it would void the injury insurance? I read that there is a small chance that the artificial disc could dislodge and paralyze him. Is that true and if so how high are the odds of it happening? etc etc. 

 

Seems like the spinal fusion is the safer bet, but it would also mean that Eichel most likely never return to 100% health. I’ve heard people say about 80% (don’t know if that’s true).

 

So I can honestly see both sides of this argument. But IMO Eichel needs to find a better way to handle this. 
 

I have a feeling other teams are just as skeptical about this surgery as the Sabres are. Otherwise, if you think Buffalo is just being stupid here, why not trade for Eichel and let him have the surgery?

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

agree about arbitration.
 

I meant if the Sabres approve the disc replacement surgery, would the insurance company still cover the cost of Eichel’s contract if he could not return to play or was injured playing in the NHL (after the surgery). If it would void the injury insurance then the Pegulas would be on the hook for Eichel’s full contract even if he could never play again. Right now, the contract has injury insurance. If Eichel couldn’t play again the Sabres aren’t on the hook for the money owed.

Im sure if he has the spinal fusion he would still have that injury insurance on his contract. Would he still have it if he has the replacement? (if Buffalo approved the surgery)

 

As far as letting him have the surgery, I guess it depends on a lot of different things I don’t know the answer to. Do other teams approve of this surgery or are they telling Buffalo they wouldn’t trade for Eichel if he has it? Does it void the medical injury insurance on Eichel’s contract? What is the success rate for “return to sports” for the spinal fusion? Is it 75%? 80? 90? What are the benefits and risks of each? What are the specific reasons the Sabres medical staff doesn’t want him having this surgery? Is the main reason because it hasn’t been done on an NHL player and/or that it would void the injury insurance? I read that there is a small chance that the artificial disc could dislodge and paralyze him. Is that true and if so how high are the odds of it happening? etc etc. 

 

Seems like the spinal fusion is the safer bet, but it would also mean that Eichel most likely never return to 100% health. I’ve heard people say about 80% (don’t know if that’s true).

 

So I can honestly see both sides of this argument. But IMO Eichel needs to find a better way to handle this. 
 

I have a feeling other teams are just as skeptical about this surgery as the Sabres are. Otherwise, if you think Buffalo is just being stupid here, why not trade for Eichel and let him have the surgery?

They've been trying for weeks. But they are asking for a lot, as they should. No serious offers yet. This was meant to shame the team but it's having the opposite effect

[oldmanfan]

Eichel is poisonous.  Adams and Granato are following the playbook of McDermott and Beane.  Set a philosophy, get players in who want to make hockey their priority, and get rid of guys who don’t buy in.  So Eichel and his agents can sit and beeyatch all they want.  Adams is doing just fine with this.

[ChevyVanMiller]

Former Sabre Evander Kane accused of betting on his own team and throwing games.
 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/31929787/nhl-investigate-allegation-san-jose-sharks-evander-kane-bet-own-games

 

[Mike in Horseheads]

3 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Former Sabre Evander Kane accused of betting on his own team and throwing games.
 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/31929787/nhl-investigate-allegation-san-jose-sharks-evander-kane-bet-own-games

 

I just read this in another tweet... 

New York Post

@nypost

·

11m

Evander Kane's pregnant wife says NHL star tanked games for gambling profit, abandoned her https://trib.al/QweIKV6

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Former Sabre Evander Kane accused of betting on his own team and throwing games.
 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/31929787/nhl-investigate-allegation-san-jose-sharks-evander-kane-bet-own-games

 

The 'Charlie Hustle' of the NHL?!

*
Or maybe it should be 'Charlie Hustler'...🤔

Edited August 1, 2021 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

The 'Charlie Hustle' of the NHL?!

*
Or maybe it should be 'Charlie Hustler'...🤔

In the trial of “Tim Murray was the worst GM in the history of professional team sports” I present exhibit Z.

[K-9]

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

In the trial of “Tim Murray was the worst GM in the history of professional team sports” I present exhibit Z.

It certainly looks that way. It’s too bad that Kane and Bogosian had more influence on the young core than Gionta and Jorges. Both have suggested that Eichel was beyond their reach in terms of influence. Sure, part of that is that Eichel is an arrogant A hole of the highest order, but part of it is the bad influence of Kane and Bogo. As a result, guys younger than Eichel had crap for leadership in the form of a crap captain in Eichel. 

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

It certainly looks that way. It’s too bad that Kane and Bogosian had more influence on the young core than Gionta and Jorges. Both have suggested that Eichel was beyond their reach in terms of influence. Sure, part of that is that Eichel is an arrogant A hole of the highest order, but part of it is the bad influence of Kane and Bogo. As a result, guys younger than Eichel had crap for leadership in the form of a crap captain in Eichel. 

Couldn’t agree more and at this point I think Eichel can be summed up in two words:

 

Mass.  Hole.

 

This unmitigated garbage in this weekends stunt press release is just incredible.  Not only do I think if I were the Sabres that I’d call him on his BS, but I think if I were another team…..and an honest broker…..that I’d opt out of trading for him anyway.  There is no way on Earth that his desire for that surgery is real.  It is 100% a ploy and every GM in the league knows it.  No other top athlete has had this surgery…..I think there is one low level tennis player….right?  We are supposed to believe he is going to get the surgery and be ready in 2 months for NHL training camp then take hits as a center all year?  He is basically using BS to circumvent his contract.  If he goes to a team he wants he will magically decide to have a more traditional rehab/surgery, if he goes to an undesirable team….to him….or stays with the Sabres, he will demand the quackery.  What a pile of garbage this ploy is and what an ass he has exposed himself as being.

[shrader]

I'm thinking the team knew the interview with the doctor was coming out, so they got ahead of it with that press conference last week.  Eichel's team was pissed that they got scooped so threw threw together that statement.

[ChevyVanMiller]

Captain Crunch back in the Sabres family.

https://www.amerks.com/news/detail/michael-peca-named-amerks-assistant-coach

[shrader]

14 minutes ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Captain Crunch back in the Sabres family.

https://www.amerks.com/news/detail/michael-peca-named-amerks-assistant-coach

 

I wonder if he ever wound up selling his house.  We had a thread about that, didn't we?

[thenorthremembers]

6 hours ago, shrader said:

 

I wonder if he ever wound up selling his house.  We had a thread about that, didn't we?

My Mom ended up with his furniture.  Ugly as hell but a good conversation piece.

[snafu]

3 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

My Mom ended up with his furniture.  Ugly as hell but a good conversation piece.

Dude, that’s no way to talk about your mom.

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by snafu

[QCity]

On 7/30/2021 at 5:04 PM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I just cant put goaltenders on the same level as QB as they dictate everything on the field and goalies just need to stop shots, which is very important but not to that level. Also its pretty clear from players who have left the team that there is something wrong team wide just not the goalies. We've had great goalies and still haven't won and when we had the french connection i couldn't even tell you who hte goalie was. 

 

To me the players havent been physical enough around the nets nor aggressive enough getting after the puck. Now we just cant have bangers , we need guys who can be aggressive AND score.

 

 

 

 

You'll get no argument from me on those points. The team employs a soft perimeter game and doesn't play with any passion or fire. But it starts with goaltending.

 

Here's a crazy stat from last season that has been getting some mention on the internet and local radio. Last season when Ullmark was in net the team was playing at a ~90 point pace over a full season. Now think about that for a second. After that trainwreck of a season when our best player (Eichel) was hurt, our best stay-at-home defenseman (McCabe) was lost, Hall checking out, the 4th line Skinner controversy, Covid shutting the team down for 2 weeks, and being coached by Ralph Freaking Krueger, the team was on a ~90 point pace with Ullmark. Hard to believe. Now, 90 points won't get you into the playoffs -- but that's what they call a bubble team, not a dumpster fire. Franchise players usually aren't desperately trying to leave town when you have a chance.

 

The flip side is that when Ullmark wasn't in net, they played at some ridiculously low win rate (worse than tank team point totals IIRC). Remember that 18 game losing streak that cemented us as the laughingstock of the league? It started 1 game before Ullmark was injured, and it ended 2 games after he came back. And I don't even think the guy is a top-10 goalie, probably around #13-15 IMO.

 

I know FA isn't over and there are deals to be made, but right now our goaltending is actually worse than last year. It's not fair to the new kids coming up, the coach, or the fans. 

[TBBills]

This time... This time... This time...

 

Sooner or later I guess it will be "this time"

 

Sabres have a good record of destroying "This time" threads though.

 

Going to take a while with the tank year happening again.

Edited August 4, 2021 by TBBills