Article: McDermott Concerned about PSE Dysfunction

[Rockpile233]

I thought it was a well written piece, but I never underestimate how fiercely apologetic sports fans can be to billionaire owners.

 

Most of the anecdotal evidence I’ve heard supports the article. With that being said, they own the teams and can mismanage them as they see fit. I’m just shocked how many people get fired up to defend them despite having even less evidence than the writer.

[MJS]

4 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Well said.  Today's society gravitates to sources that reinforce what the consumer wants to hear (in politics or civics, Fox or OAN on the right, MSNBC on the left).  The trope that all reporters are biased simply is a way of dismissing a message that the consumer does not want to acknowledge.  It's kind of sad, actually, the degree of mistrust that has infected so many parts of our society. 

So in one breath you say that people gravitate to sources that reinforce what they want to hear (which means clearly that there are biased sources out there to gravitate to) and then you say that reporters aren't biased? How can that be? If there are so many biased sources for people to confirm their own opinions, the reporters behind those sources have to be biased too.

[Lurker]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So it is no longer my job FWIW. But I think this response just sums up where perceptions of the media are in society. The media themselves are not blameless in this but it is a sad state of affairs. I never once went into a story with an agenda and the vast majority of journalists do not operate that way. 

 

Its sad that people have chosen to blame "the media" if they don't confirm their already held positions.   Cognitative disonance is a b-word...

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They hired McDermott and Beane and gave them power. They got it right after Marrone, Rex, Whaley, etc... The Bills are in fine shape now but it isn’t because of them. If the right people are in charge things work fine. The less involved the Pegula’s are in the day-to-day the better. Hire the right people, give them the resources that they need and get out of the way.

 

Agree 100% with this and the reason this article is concerning is because a drain on the resources from these other businesses and cross pollinating the Bills' management structure with people from the Sabres to cut costs do not sound like good indicators for the future success of that model. 

 

At the moment the Bills have not been badly affected. But if it continues then at some point they may well be. That is why people should actually read the piece before just deciding Tim Graham is a hack. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

McDermott and Beane have 2 years left on their deals. They will be looking for extensions as well after the season. 

 

 

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

So in one breath you say that people gravitate to sources that reinforce what they want to hear (which means clearly that there are biased sources out there to gravitate to) and then you say that reporters aren't biased? How can that be? If there are so many biased sources for people to confirm their own opinions, the reporters behind those sources have to be biased too.

 

Lots of opinion shows on those nets, right?  Could read NYT or WaPo or even LA Times.  But they go there because they get the talk they want to here.  Not my bag, frankly, any of that stuff.  I'll stick to NYT and occasionally WaPo. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by SectionC3

[Doc Brown]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

I realize that not everyone has access to the article, but it's not just ex-employees who talked to Timmeh...

 

"The Athletic interviewed 39 current and former full-time employees by telephone, text and verified direct message...." 

 

“I used to feel proud to tell people I worked for PSE,” said a current employee. “Then there was a point I just had to force a smile when talking about my job. Now, when people ask me about openings, I tell them not to apply.”

 

“We always say winning fixes everything,” a current PSE employee said. “And I’m sure if the Sabres were successful some of these issues would be less infuriating on the surface."

 

“I remember being underwhelmed,” said a current Sabres employee.

That alone is bad reporting.  Tell us how many current employees and how many former full time employees. 

 

My cousin's husband works as a video editor for PSE and got furloughed and I talked to him over the weekend.  He's had nothing but nice things to say about management.  Particularly Kim. 

 

There's some very informative information in the article but it's not as balanced as it should be.

[apuszczalowski]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Why do people keep mentioning this?  Pegula retains some small fracking company.  He put 4.7 billion in the bank when he got out of the energy business for the most part years ago.

 

Can no one entertain that, outside of the business he created in an industry he a while ago mostly cashed out of, he isn't a very good businessman when it comes to the hospitality and entertainment business?

 

 

Did he just put the money in a chequing/Savings account?

I'm sure money like that was put into investments and may have been put into stocks in the Energy sector which could be affecting his net worth

I doubt he has all that money sitting in a 'Scrooge McDuck' type swimming pool vault where it protected (although it would be awesome if he did)

[Lurker]

6 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

So 3 of the 39 were current employees, haha.

 

Nope.  I didn't want to tax those that have made up their minds and gave just three examples...

[thenorthremembers]

I think everyone probably needs to calm down a bit.   Their company is losing money because of a frickin pandemic, I am sure things are a bit weird over there right now.   I am also not surprised a bunch of people who just lost their job don't have a lot of positive things to say about their former employers.

 

This just in, people who run companies care more about the bottom line than they do about Johnny Paycheck and Joe Sixpack is this really an epiphany to anyone?

 

On the Sabres, they just lost a month worth of revenue from the team.   On top of that they are invested in a sport that is just above the WNBA and MLS in popularity,  even if the Sabres were good they wouldn't be a huge money earner in terms of revenue when compared to other leagues.   What it costs to run a NHL team compared to how popular the sport is in the US is getting to be disproportionate.    They may be bad owners, but even the good owners in the league arent counting on their NHL team to be their main source of income.

 

 

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They hired McDermott and Beane and gave them power. They got it right after Marrone, Rex, Whaley, etc... The Bills are in fine shape now but they made multiple missteps to get there. If the right people are in charge things work fine. The less involved the Pegula’s are in the day-to-day the better. Hire the right people, give them the resources that they need and get out of the way.

 

Sure they made an early misstep, retaining Whaley and hiring Rex (Marrone could pound sand for all I cared and Khan is making a mistake keeping him around).  Happens to many owners.  But things are looking good now.

 

But what's the solution for the Sabres?  Just leave it all up to Botterill and Krueger?

[apuszczalowski]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

I think everyone probably needs to calm down a bit.   Their company is losing money because of a frickin pandemic, I am sure things are a bit weird over there right now.   I am also not surprised a bunch of people who just lost their job don't have a lot of positive things to say about their former employers.

 

This just in, people who run companies care more about the bottom line than they do about Johnny Paycheck and Joe Sixpack is this really an epiphany to anyone?

 

On the Sabres, they just lost a month worth of revenue from the team.   On top of that they are invested in a sport that is just above the WNBA and MLS in popularity,  even if the Sabres were good they wouldn't be a huge money earner in terms of revenue when compared to other leagues.   What it costs to run a NHL team compared to how popular the sport is in the US is getting to be disproportionate.    They may be bad owners, but even the good owners in the league arent counting on their NHL team to be their main source of income.

 

 

Leave Joe out of this, Has anyone seen him around here recently?

 

I could also see employees being pissed off that they were let go or laid off right now because people look at the Pegulas around here like some Bottomless Pit of financial money and can do everything that they need or want. right now is not a good time for someone whos money was and could still be tied up in the energy sector, and pro sports which are taking huge hits because of this pandemic. People probably just assumed they would continue to pay employees through this even if the company isn't doing anything and hemorrhaging money. Its not like the sabres couldn't use some changes throughout the organization after the way its been run since they took over. The response has not been good for the Pegulas after how they '50th Anniversary Season' Season went down without even talking about the team on the ice.......

[MJS]

6 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Lots of opinion shows on those nets, right?  Could read NYT or WaPo or even LA Times.  But they go there because they get the talk they want to here.  Not my bag, frankly, any of that stuff.  I'll stick to NYT and occasionally WaPo. 

 

I like BBC. At least they are always professional, even if they do sometimes present biased material. I read a couple of extremely unprofessional articles posted by Washington Post a couple years ago and that really soured my view of them. New York Times is pretty good. I want facts presented in an objective and professional manner. That's what I look for in the news media.

[Malazan]

59 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Well as a former sports journalist I am telling you this is a good piece of journalism. He has spoken to plenty of people he isn't giving his opinion he is reporting. 

 

If you want to dismiss it as a "hack" fine. But people should be taking that article seriously. It is concerning.

 

The allegations are concerning. Unfortunately, Tim's shoddy sports writing (not Journalism) means that without citing legitimate sources (anonymous sources don't count(a Journalist knows you need to cite your source as accurately as possible and make every effort to get them to attach as much identifying information as possible). That out of ~40 people, he couldn't get one to put their name or even an accurate description of their role tells me the writer was more interested in 'dirt' than accuracy. Graham's unprofessional behavior in the past makes him akin to a partisan news network. They may be reporting accurately, but unfortunately, they've lost their authority and trust so they have to prove it beyond a doubt now...except to others who have a vested interest in believing the narrative they present. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by jeremy2020

[apuszczalowski]

Just now, MJS said:

 

I like BBC. At least they are always professional, even if they do sometimes present biased material. I read a couple of extremely unprofessional articles posted by Washington Post a couple years ago and that really soured my view of them. New York Times is pretty good. I want facts presented in an objective and professional manner. That's what I look for in the news media.

Its because they are Brittish, they make everything sound classy and professional.....

[wppete]

33 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Here's what I got from the article...

-The Pegula's were overly ambitious and PSE expanded too quickly that an economic downturn has created an unfortunate situation where tough choices had to be made.

-Graham was looking for disgruntled ex employees and found them.

-It's highly unlikely we get a new stadium here unless the majority of the funding comes from the tax payers.

 

Well without a doubt we are not getting a New Stadium now after this Virus has destroyed and is destroying the NY economy. 

[MJS]

8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Nope.  I didn't want to tax those that have made up their minds and gave just three examples...

So you would think that there would be a mix a positive things said, but that doesn't seem to be the case. That's not usually how sampling works, unless your sample is biased. Or unless you choose to only include responses from the negatives.

1 minute ago, apuszczalowski said:

Its because they are Brittish, they make everything sound classy and professional.....

It's because they actually ARE professional and objective in their delivery. Their accent helps, sure, but that's not why. They use a professional tone and professional language and their goal is to present facts without sounding biased.

[PromoTheRobot]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So you don't think the story is true? Don't think that major cutbacks and the departure of numerous employees at all levels of the PSE business has caused mistrust and damaged morale? Or you don't believe that the Pegulas are tightening their belts as a result of liquidity issues? 

 

Why can't it be both? It probably is both. But the Athletic's focus is on one side, the one that damages the reputation of the team owners the most.

 

Have you read this article? https://buffalonews.com/2020/04/19/buffalo-bills-buffalo-sabres-terry-and-kim-pegula-nfl-nhl-oil-prices/  Take a look and tell me if this looks like good journalism to you as well?

[apuszczalowski]

1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

The allegations are concerning. Unfortunately, Tim's shoddy sports writing (not Journalism) means that without citing legitimate sources (anonymous sources don't count(a Journalist knows you need to cite your source as accurately as possible and make every effort to get them to attach as much identifying information as possible). That out of ~40 people, he couldn't get one to put their name or even an accurate description of their role tells me the writer was more interested in 'dirt' than accuracy. Graham's unprofessional behavior in the past makes him akin to a partisan news network. They may be reporting accurately, but unfortunately, they've lost their authority and trust so they have to prove it beyond a doubt now...except to others who have a vested interest in believing the narrative they present. 

its true that this may be an accurate piece of writing that he put out, but when you have spent years being biased and/or unprofessional, you lose the benefit of the doubt and your work will be viewed as skeptical

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, apuszczalowski said:

its true that this may be an accurate piece of writing that he put out, but when you have spent years being biased and/or unprofessional, you lose the benefit of the doubt and your work will be viewed as skeptical

 

^^^correct^^^

 

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Sure they made an early misstep, retaining Whaley and hiring Rex (Marrone could pound sand for all I cared and Khan is making a mistake keeping him around).  Happens to many owners.  But things are looking good now.

 

But what's the solution for the Sabres?  Just leave it all up to Botterill and Krueger?

The solution is to hire the right people, give them the resources and get out of the way.

 

Also, I’m seeing that they are losing $40M-$50M on the Sabres? I haven’t read the article but if that’s true it’s a MASSIVE indictment on them. I worked for a team that finished with one of the worst records in the league, had just traded away the greatest player in franchise history and was owned by the NBA. We sold more new season tickets BEFORE the lottery was completed than any team in the league. It was about having a plan and executing it. 
 

Anyone that says, “winning is all that matters” has absolutely ZERO clue what it takes to be successful. You build elite staffs so that you are insulated as best as you can be from team performance. That’s what the Bills have done for 25+ years. That’s why Russ Brandon was good at his job. They were a successful operation regardless of the record. 
 

Of course it is easier in football but that’s why I used my own experience. It can be done but you need the right people steering the ship. Obviously Botterill is a nightmare but so is Kim. Go get a real GM to run hockey operations and go get a real president to sit over PSE and/or the Sabres. There are a zillion people more qualified to do the job. She had some of them there!! Dave Wheat should have been given total autonomy to run those operations after RB left. That would have been the best move. Empower the right people and get the hell out of the way!!

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

its true that this may be an accurate piece of writing that he put out, but when you have spent years being biased and/or unprofessional, you lose the benefit of the doubt and your work will be viewed as skeptical

 

So that might well be true and I was not commenting on that. I was commenting on this specific piece.

[PromoTheRobot]

8 minutes ago, wppete said:

 

Well without a doubt we are not getting a New Stadium now after this Virus has destroyed and is destroying the NY economy. 

 

It would be bad form for the NFL to be pushing for one now.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

This article seriously ruined my day. 

[thenorthremembers]

Graham had an agenda.   If he wanted to get to the truth he would have included quotes from people who were also happy about working for the Pegulas and then made an assessment on what the real state of things is at PSE. 

 

Something like this is akin to writing a piece called "Dick Jauron Most Underrated Coach of All Time"  citing his one 11-5 season as the reason while totally ignoring his .468 all time winning percentage. 

 

The article is purposefully short sighted and it has everything to do with him being close with Bucky and Jerry. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The solution is to hire the right people, give them the resources and get out of the way.

 

Also, I’m seeing that they are losing $40M-$50M on the Sabres? I haven’t read the article but if that’s true it’s a MASSIVE indictment on them. I worked for a team that finished with one of the worst records in the league, had just traded away the greatest player in franchise history and was owned by the NBA. We sold more new season tickets BEFORE the lottery was completed than any team in the league. It was about having a plan and executing it. 
 

Anyone that says, “winning is all that matters” has absolutely ZERO clue what it takes to be successful. You build elite staffs so that you are insulated as best as you can be from team performance. That’s what the Bills have done for 25+ years. That’s why Russ Brandon was good at his job. They were a successful operation regardless of the record. 
 

Of course it is easier in football but that’s why I used my own experience. It can be done but you need the right people steering the ship. Obviously Botterill is a nightmare but so is Kim. Go get a real GM to run hockey operations and go get a real president to sit over PSE and/or the Sabres. There are a zillion people more qualified to do the job. She had some of them there!! Dave Wheat should have been given total autonomy to run those operations after RB left. That would have been the best move. Empower the right people and get the hell out of the way!!

 

 

I commend this post to people. Kirby has been there and done it folks. He has worked in pro sports businesses. I don't expect the average joe on the street to think about things in this way so please listen to people who do understand it.

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Why can't it be both? It probably is both. But the Athletic's focus is on one side, the one that damages the reputation of the team owners the most.

 

Have you read this article? https://buffalonews.com/2020/04/19/buffalo-bills-buffalo-sabres-terry-and-kim-pegula-nfl-nhl-oil-prices/  Take a look and tell me if this looks like good journalism to you as well?

 

Yep it does. They can both be. That is allowed.

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

 

I commend this post to people. Kirby has been there and done it folks. He has worked in pro sports businesses. I don't expect the average joe on the street to think about things in this way so please listen to people who do understand it.

 

And no one is disputing the Pegulas business acumen. They ain't good.

[Lurker]

10 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

That out of ~40 people, he couldn't get one to put their name or even an accurate description of their role tells me the writer was more interested in 'dirt' than accuracy. 

 

It tells me that people fear for their jobs (or careers, even if they don't work there anymore).   

 

I can't believe I even had to type that...

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep it does. They can both be. That is allowed.

 

But the two stories are 180-degrees apart in focus. One focuses on the business, the other on the personal.

Edited April 20, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[apuszczalowski]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The solution is to hire the right people, give them the resources and get out of the way.

 

Also, I’m seeing that they are losing $40M-$50M on the Sabres? I haven’t read the article but if that’s true it’s a MASSIVE indictment on them. I worked for a team that finished with one of the worst records in the league, had just traded away the greatest player in franchise history and was owned by the NBA. We sold more new season tickets BEFORE the lottery was completed than any team in the league. It was about having a plan and executing it. 
 

Anyone that says, “winning is all that matters” has absolutely ZERO clue what it takes to be successful. You build elite staffs so that you are insulated as best as you can be from team performance. That’s what the Bills have done for 25+ years. That’s why Russ Brandon was good at his job. They were a successful operation regardless of the record. 
 

Of course it is easier in football but that’s why I used my own experience. It can be done but you need the right people steering the ship. Obviously Botterill is a nightmare but so is Kim. Go get a real GM to run hockey operations and go get a real president to sit over PSE and/or the Sabres. There are a zillion people more qualified to do the job. She had some of them there!! Dave Wheat should have been given total autonomy to run those operations after RB left. That would have been the best move. Empower the right people and get the hell out of the way!!

is the $40-50 Million because the season stopped early? If so I would think all teams right now are losing a huge chunk of revenue also.

Last thing I saw it said they are actually turning a slight profit or at worse breaking even with the Sabres

 

 

[Dr. Who]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The solution is to hire the right people, give them the resources and get out of the way.

 

Also, I’m seeing that they are losing $40M-$50M on the Sabres? I haven’t read the article but if that’s true it’s a MASSIVE indictment on them. I worked for a team that finished with one of the worst records in the league, had just traded away the greatest player in franchise history and was owned by the NBA. We sold more new season tickets BEFORE the lottery was completed than any team in the league. It was about having a plan and executing it. 
 

Anyone that says, “winning is all that matters” has absolutely ZERO clue what it takes to be successful. You build elite staffs so that you are insulated as best as you can be from team performance. That’s what the Bills have done for 25+ years. That’s why Russ Brandon was good at his job. They were a successful operation regardless of the record. 
 

Of course it is easier in football but that’s why I used my own experience. It can be done but you need the right people steering the ship. Obviously Botterill is a nightmare but so is Kim. Go get a real GM to run hockey operations and go get a real president to sit over PSE and/or the Sabres. There are a zillion people more qualified to do the job. She had some of them there!! Dave Wheat should have been given total autonomy to run those operations after RB left. That would have been the best move. Empower the right people and get the hell out of the way!!

Yep. No need to sell the Sabres. Just do this^^^^^!

[apuszczalowski]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

It would be bad form for the NFL to be pushing for one now.

Bills could always put the Stadium downtown close to the Border while 'relocating' to Niagara (Ontario) and try to get the Canadian government to pay for it. Giants/Jets don't play in NY.....

 

(**This was a joke, theres no way the Canada/Ontario government pays for it)

[Lurker]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Why can't it be both? It probably is both. But the Athletic's focus is on one side, the one that damages the reputation of the team owners the most.

 

Have you read this article? https://buffalonews.com/2020/04/19/buffalo-bills-buffalo-sabres-terry-and-kim-pegula-nfl-nhl-oil-prices/  Take a look and tell me if this looks like good journalism to you as well?

 

Roboman.  Do you have an Athletic subscription?     TG gave Kim a full interview, allowing her to go on record and explain her side.     I thought that was quite remarkable, actually.  How often do you get to see a real time rebuttal or response like this?      It's not one sided at all, IMO...

[Best Player Available]

27 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

McDermott and Beane have 2 years left on their deals. They will be looking for extensions as well after the season. 

 

 

Why? 

[Mr. WEO]

16 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Did he just put the money in a chequing/Savings account?

I'm sure money like that was put into investments and may have been put into stocks in the Energy sector which could be affecting his net worth

I doubt he has all that money sitting in a 'Scrooge McDuck' type swimming pool vault where it protected (although it would be awesome if he did)

 

Oil prices cratered in 2016 too. 

 

Anyway, his business is entertainment now.  If he still had a large chunk of his worth in oil, he's nuts.

[KD in CA]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Tim Graham interviewed almost 40 current/former PSE employees, and the feedback was that dysfunction, nepotism, and cost-cutting pervade the organization.  The Pegulas gave a presentation in January, right after the Bills made the playoffs, and one of the stated "three pillars" of organizational goals was "return on investment," which was widely described (and possibly stated by the Pegulas directly, though that seems shocking) as ensuring that the Pegulas can maintain their lavish lifestyle.  There is concern that the dysfunction within the Sabres will spill over into the Bills, and McD allegedly is concerned about it.

 

What a ridiculous point to make, either by the employees in question or the author (no way to know who's really telling the story)

 

One of the 3 pillars of ANY for-profit enterprise is "return on investment."   And usually it's the first pillar.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Roboman.  Do you have an Athletic subscription?     TG gave Kim a full interview, allowing her to go on record and explain her side.     I thought that was quite remarkable, actually.  How often do you get to see a real time rebuttal or response like this?      It's not one sided at all, IMO...

 

I do have a subscription. I am aware of the Kim rebuttal. I'm also aware of the Buffalo News story the same topic. https://buffalonews.com/2020/04/19/buffalo-bills-buffalo-sabres-terry-and-kim-pegula-nfl-nhl-oil-prices/  It reads a weeee bit diferently.

Edited April 20, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[HappyDays]

I read the article but I don't see how it impacts the Bills. The Bills like any NFL franchise are very profitable, and they seemingly have the right people in charge there. I don't care about hockey. I recognize that the Sabres are poorly managed but what does that have to do with the Bills? What the Pegulas do outside of the Bills means nothing to me. Robert Kraft was caught in a prostitution ring and it didn't bring the Patriots down. I'm sure the Pegulas can handle a tough economy for a few months. I don't see how that means their profitable NFL franchise is in danger.

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I do have a subscription. I am aware of the Kim rebuttal. I'm also aware of the Buffalo News story the same topic. https://buffalonews.com/2020/04/19/buffalo-bills-buffalo-sabres-terry-and-kim-pegula-nfl-nhl-oil-prices/  It reads a weeee bit diferently.

What!? Same story, two different angles!? Unheard of in this country!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, Best Player Available said:

Why? 

Why? Because coaches don't like entering a  final year without a contract extension.