Best WR Trio in the AFC, or in the League?

[Shaw66]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

My answer here is the same as what I commented on that Tweet: 

 

Duos and “whoever else” don’t count. The tweet said “TRIOS”.

 

Two WRs and a tight end don’t count, the tweet said “WR trios”. 

 

In the AFC, the Chiefs can make a good case. 

 

In the NFC, the Bucs and MAYBE the Cards (Fitzgerald is well past his prime) can make a good case.

 

At the very least, the Bills have a top 5 WR trio, and that’s something we couldn’t say last Sunday!

I agree.   I mean, anything could happen, but I've said a few places now that the Bills have a top 10 number 1 receiver, a top 10 number 2 receiver and a top 10 slot receiver.    Who else can say that?  

 

And that's why it comes back to Allen.   The right quarterback should thrive with a trio like that.   And it comes back to Daboll.   And back to the o line.   This team has this elite trio, and it has Singletary, who still has some upside, and everyone else has to do his job to take advantage of it.   

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, White Linen said:

 

I've tried to tell you a couple times/ways.  Because Mahomes is at peak right now, maybe he'll get better but they're offense is already running on all cylinders and they use their tight ends and backs a lot.  Allen has more room to grow because he's not peaked like Mahomes.  So it stands to reason Beasley and Brown should do better as/if Allen does.  Watkins also downgrades their group because all 3 of our receivers are better than him.  

I agree about this.   Frankly, I think you also have to take into consideration the coaches.   Mahomes has a coach who's a master offensive planner and the Bills have Daboll.   And I'm not saying that put down Daboll.   All I'm saying is that from a coaching standpoint the Chiefs offense is also on all cylinders.    

 

Maybe Watkins-Beasley is a push.   Watkins is more talented, Beasley more consistently makes plays for you.  

[White Linen]

8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think this is an excellent way to look at.  Take any trio and put them on the Chiefs with Mahomes.   I think it's tough to find a trio of wideouts Mahomes would want over these three.   They could be that good.   We could argue all day about it, because there are some other good trios, but for me the fact that each of the Bills has succeeded in the league at a consistently high level, and each is still playing at a high level.   That's tough to beat.   These three are guys who each have recently been top in their category (primary, secondary and slot), real threats, and they still play at that level.   Who else has that at all three positions?

 

It also appears we're not done.  

[White Linen]

11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree about this.   Frankly, I think you also have to take into consideration the coaches.   Mahomes has a coach who's a master offensive planner and the Bills have Daboll.   And I'm not saying that put down Daboll.   All I'm saying is that from a coaching standpoint the Chiefs offense is also on all cylinders.    

 

Maybe Watkins-Beasley is a push.   Watkins is more talented, Beasley more consistently makes plays for you.  

 

Watkins is definitely more physically talented, which makes him an under performer even more.  Also when Hill was  out for 4 games he had 14 catches for 167 yds and no TD's.  He doesn't step up.  Beasley had a very nice year and seemingly will only get better as a slot receiver with Diggs on the field now.  So there's considerably reason to believe he can be better. 

[Mr. WEO]

neither.  Bills now have, collectively, 4 1000+ seasons among it's 3 WR over 19 combined player-years.

 

KC has 6/10 from Kelce and Hill alone. Tampa has 7 out of 9 from just Evans and Godwin.

 

 

[BobbyC81]

8 hours ago, Kaenon said:

With regards to the league:

TB with Evans, Godwin and anyone else.

ATL with Julio and Ridley, and anyone else.

AFC:

LAC with Allen, Williams and Patton

KC with Hill, Watkins and Hardman

 

Idk, there's quite a few good groups out there!

 

Don’t forget the Rams with Cook, Woods and Kupp .

[Shaw66]

49 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

neither.  Bills now have, collectively, 4 1000+ seasons among it's 3 WR over 19 combined player-years.

 

KC has 6/10 from Kelce and Hill alone. Tampa has 7 out of 9 from just Evans and Godwin.

 

 

That's a fair argument.   But I'd say that Brown has his best seasons playing as the #2, odd as it sounds.  When he's the number 1, his performance against the top corners and defenses generally seemed to slip.   And Diggs played on a team where he had to share the #1 role and that didn't want to be a passing team.  

 

Having said that, I have to say I haven't seen Godwin much, but Evans is really special - not flashy, but really, really good.   Any trio with him is a good trio. 

[Logic]

55 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

neither.  Bills now have, collectively, 4 1000+ seasons among it's 3 WR over 19 combined player-years.

 

KC has 6/10 from Kelce and Hill alone. Tampa has 7 out of 9 from just Evans and Godwin.

 

 

Kelce is a tight end.

The Tampa Bay receivers you mention form a DUO, not a TRIO.

Reading comprehension is hard.

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, Logic said:

Kelce is a tight end.

The Tampa Bay receivers you mention form a DUO, not a TRIO.

Reading comprehension is hard.

I thought you explained that nicely early on.   And I think if you limit it to a wideout trio, there's a clear advantage over KC.   

 

However, you gotta admit that if you're talking about just three guys who lead your passing attack, KC's group with Kelce is right up there.   

[dma0034]

Going to be real interesting when the Bucs line up: Antonio Brown, Mike Evans, and Chris Godwin

[Malazan]

PFF should be banned on this board

[Mr. WEO]

47 minutes ago, Logic said:

Kelce is a tight end.

The Tampa Bay receivers you mention form a DUO, not a TRIO.

Reading comprehension is hard.

 

 

Receivers catch passes.  Lots of teams feature TE as receivers, even though the Bills never have.  That obviously surprises you.

 

Lots of things are hard.  This discussion isn't one of them.  Bail out.

[Cal]

Probably high in yards by low in TDs. If you look at our 3 receivers. None of them have had a season with 10 tds

[Inigo Montoya]

With Diggs, Smoke, and Besley that is a hell of a trio at WR.  I listed the current trios for every team in the league.  I think we have a Top Five WR group.

 

Things will change some with Free Agency and this list does not include premier Tight Ends like Kelsey, Kittle, Ertz, Andrews, and Waller who play like WR1s for their team.  There are also some decent Free Agent WR out there like Anderson, Perriman, Sanders, Funchess, Taylor Gabriel, Demaryius Thomas, Agholor, Geronimo Allison who could alter the equation a bit.

 

I went ahead and highlighted the teams that I think are legitimately in the discussion for elite WR corps. I think there are 8 teams that can make a claim to be at the top.

 

My top Five +

1.  KC

2.  LA Rams

3.  Arizona

4.  Cleveland

5.  Buffalo

6. TB (Perriman likely gone in FA)

7. Jacksonville

8.  New Orleans

 

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/depth-chart/WR/

 

AFC                                                                                           

Baltimore    Marquise Brown, Willie Snead, Myles Boykin

Buffalo        Stefon Diggs,  John Brown,  Cole Beasley

Cincy           AJ Green, Tyler Boyd, John Ross,

Cleveland   Odell Beckham, Jarvis Landry, Damion Ratley

Denver        Courtland Sutton, DaeSean Hamilton, Tim patrick

Houston     Randall Cobb, Will Fuller, Kenny Stills

Indy             TY Hilton,  Zach Pascal, Paris Campbell

Jacksonv   DJ Chalk, Dede Westbrook, Chris Conley

KC               Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, Mecole Hardman

LA Ch         Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Andre Patton

Las V         Tyrell Williams, Hunter Renfrow, Zay Jones

Miami        DeVante Parker, Preston WIlliams, Jakeem Grant

New Eng   Julian Edelman, Mohamed Sanu, N'Keal Harry

NYJ            Robby Anderson (Free Agent), Jamison Crowder, Preston Williams

Pitt            JuJu,  James Washington, Diontae Johnson

Tenn         AJ Brown, Corey Davis, Adam Humphries

 

NFC                                                                                              

Ariz         DeAndre Hopkins, Larry Fitzgerald, Christian Kirk 

ATL         Julio Jones, Calvin Ridley, Russell Gage

Carol      D.J. Moore, Curtis Samuel, Seth Roberts

CHI         Allen Robinson, Anthony Miller, Javon Wims

Dallas    Amari Cooper, Michael Gallop, Ced Wilson

Detroit   Kenny Golladay, Marvin Jones, Danny Amendola

GB         Davante Adams,  Alan Lazard, Valdez-Scantling

LAR       Cooper Kupp, Robert Woods, Brandin Cooks

Minn     Adam Thielen, Bisi Johnson, Chad Beebe

NO        Michael Thomas, Ted Ginn, Tre'Quan Smith

NYG      Sterling Shepard, Golden Tate, Darius Slayton

Philly    Alshon Jeffery, DeSean Jackson, Greg Ward

Sea       Tyler Lockett, DJ metcalf, Malik Turner

TB        Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Breshad Perriman (Free Agent)

Wash   Terry McLaurin, Trey Quinn, Steven Simms

 

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Inigo Montoya

[Dopey]

No, we shouldn't bring Clay Mathews in. 

Bills should do everything they can to sign Gurley,  he is the star player this team needs.  Has both speed and power,  worth dropping Smith & Murphy which saves us 10 mill and then add another 6-7 million.

 

End of the day Sean wants to run the ball and this guy is a true workhorse back,  your not getting that from Singeltary who is not fast or big

Right Niagara Dude?

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, Dopey said:

No, we shouldn't bring Clay Mathews in. 

Bills should do everything they can to sign Gurley,  he is the star player this team needs.  Has both speed and power,  worth dropping Smith & Murphy which saves us 10 mill and then add another 6-7 million.

 

End of the day Sean wants to run the ball and this guy is a true workhorse back,  your not getting that from Singeltary who is not fast or big

Right Niagara Dude?

Apparently you have noticed that Gurley is a huge medical risk given his bad knees.

[Dopey]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Apparently you have noticed that Gurley is a huge medical risk given his bad knees.

Just trying to mix things up. I thought I was on a Clay Mathews thread earlier, but it was switched to a Gurley thread. Not sure if the person switching topic in mid stream was looking for a LAMP moment or not. Maybe me calling him out is me attempting to have a LAMP moment. 

We need to upgrade our TE group.

 

[Logic]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I thought you explained that nicely early on.   And I think if you limit it to a wideout trio, there's a clear advantage over KC.   

 

However, you gotta admit that if you're talking about just three guys who lead your passing attack, KC's group with Kelce is right up there.   

Absolutely.

If the question is "pass catching trios", it's a whole different ballgame. At that point, San Francisco (Kittle, Sanders, Samuel) and Cleveland (OBJ, Landry, Hooper) enter the discussion as well, I think.

 

[BruceVilanch]

11 hours ago, MJS said:

The fact that we can ask this question is a good sign.

We've come a long way since the Donald Jones days

9 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

I can see Watkins and Woods in 2014 perhaps.  Moulds-Evans in 04-05

 

The irony is that much of the offense in 2020 will be veteran players and not so much youth developed in their system.  Not an indictment of McBeane, just ironic considering that for many years here when Buffalo was inactive in UFA people responded with cries of you can't build through UFA. 

 

 

Moulds had peerless price for one magical year.

[formerlyofCtown]

7 hours ago, Billl said:

A slot receiver is not a wide receiver any more than a full back is a tail back.  Wide Receivers line up out wide and on the LOS.  Slot receivers line up in the slot and off the LOS.  TEs line up on the end of the line.  Pretty simple stuff, but if being pedantic is your thing then you may as well go all in with it.

It's been a while since I've had anybody worthy of being blocked.  Your football knowledge is awe inspiring.

http://www.nfl.com/player/colebeasley/2535698/profile

Tell me Mr. Football genius, what does this link say he is.

 

[MJS]

8 hours ago, Billl said:

A slot receiver is not a wide receiver any more than a full back is a tail back.  Wide Receivers line up out wide and on the LOS.  Slot receivers line up in the slot and off the LOS.  TEs line up on the end of the line.  Pretty simple stuff, but if being pedantic is your thing then you may as well go all in with it.

Please tell me you aren't being serious... The slot is still wide of the line of scrimmage. Every single slot receiver in the game is officially listed as a wide receiver by their team. You're just being silly.

[LABILLBACKER]

13 hours ago, DJB said:

Bills are definitely  in the top 10 WR of trios for the entire NFL. 

I agree, but I wish we could turn Beasley into our Edelman. Stefon & Smoke make a great duo.

[Billl]

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

Please tell me you aren't being serious... The slot is still wide of the line of scrimmage. Every single slot receiver in the game is officially listed as a wide receiver by their team. You're just being silly.

 

1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said:

It's been a while since I've had anybody worthy of being blocked.  Your football knowledge is awe inspiring.

http://www.nfl.com/player/colebeasley/2535698/profile

Tell me Mr. Football genius, what does this link say he is.

 

Of course Beasley belongs in the WR conversation.  The posters I responded to were complaining about including guys like Travis Kelce in the conversation because he’s listed as a TE.  If a WR is an eligible receiver who lines up wide of the LOS (which it is), then of course players like Kelce belong in the conversation.  Dude has 200 catches in the past two seasons.  He doesn’t get them as an in line blocker.  He gets (most of) them by lining up in the slot or flexing out wide just like Beasley.

 

You can’t discount the production of guys who line up in the slot or split out wide simply because they may have lined up next to the Tackle and run blocked three plays earlier.  To put it another way, Kelce took more snaps lined up at WR than Mecole Hardman did.  If Kelce catches 60+ passes a season from the slot position, he belongs in the conversation as a WR.

 

 

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

 

Of course Beasley belongs in the WR conversation.  The posters I responded to were complaining about including guys like Travis Kelce in the conversation because he’s listed as a TE.  If a WR is an eligible receiver who lines up wide of the LOS (which it is), then of course players like Kelce belong in the conversation.  Dude has 200 catches in the past two seasons.  He doesn’t get them as an in line blocker.  He gets (most of) them by lining up in the slot or flexing out wide just like Beasley.

 

You can’t discount the production of guys who line up in the slot or split out wide simply because they may have lined up next to the Tackle and run blocked three plays earlier.  To put it another way, Kelce took more snaps lined up at WR than Mecole Hardman did.  If Kelce catches 60+ passes a season from the slot position, he belongs in the conversation as a WR.

 

If people want to consider the WR group separate from TE's, that's fine. If you want to include all pass catchers, that's fine too. I don't see the problem. An offense can be boiled down to many different aspects.

 

If you were having a conversation about TE's you probably wouldn't start talking about receivers even though they do a lot of the same things, including blocking down field on running plays. So I don't see a problem with people differentiating between the two. There is a difference, even though their roles have similarities.

[formerlyofCtown]

On 3/20/2020 at 12:25 AM, Billl said:

 

Of course Beasley belongs in the WR conversation.  The posters I responded to were complaining about including guys like Travis Kelce in the conversation because he’s listed as a TE.  If a WR is an eligible receiver who lines up wide of the LOS (which it is), then of course players like Kelce belong in the conversation.  Dude has 200 catches in the past two seasons.  He doesn’t get them as an in line blocker.  He gets (most of) them by lining up in the slot or flexing out wide just like Beasley.

 

You can’t discount the production of guys who line up in the slot or split out wide simply because they may have lined up next to the Tackle and run blocked three plays earlier.  To put it another way, Kelce took more snaps lined up at WR than Mecole Hardman did.  If Kelce catches 60+ passes a season from the slot position, he belongs in the conversation as a WR.

 

 

No one is discounting anything.  We are just pointing out that this discussion is about the teams top 3 WRs.  It isnt about pass catchers in general.  TEs and RBs need not apply.

[without a drought]

At least on paper. Josh would need to put up at least 4,200 yards to spread stats around to Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Knox and Singletary for this to be a conversation after the season.

[Shaw66]

I just had a random reaction and wanted to say somewhere.   This thread seemed to be the right place. 

 

I was in the thread about whether Johnson could have impact from the edge this year.   I was talking about positions where we shouldn't be surprised if some rookie or second year guy might unexpectedly have an impact, like Johnson might on the edge.  I ran through the position groups.  When I got to receivers, I said that's a position where I wouldn't think it's likely.   I said it just doesn't seem likely that anyone is taking playing time from Diggs, Brown, and Beasley.

 

And I did a double take.   When was the last time any of us wrote the names of the Bills receivers and in their minds what we see now?   Moulds and Price, I suppose.   Moulds and Evans.   But really, I think you have to go back to Reed, Beebe and Lofton before you find as good a group.   

 

We should still be dancing in the streets over that move.   

[DFT]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I just had a random reaction and wanted to say somewhere.   This thread seemed to be the right place. 

 

I was in the thread about whether Johnson could have impact from the edge this year.   I was talking about positions where we shouldn't be surprised if some rookie or second year guy might unexpectedly have an impact, like Johnson might on the edge.  I ran through the position groups.  When I got to receivers, I said that's a position where I wouldn't think it's likely.   I said it just doesn't seem likely that anyone is taking playing time from Diggs, Brown, and Beasley.

 

And I did a double take.   When was the last time any of us wrote the names of the Bills receivers and in their minds what we see now?   Moulds and Price, I suppose.   Moulds and Evans.   But really, I think you have to go back to Reed, Beebe and Lofton before you find as good a group.   

 

We should still be dancing in the streets over that move.   

Agree 100%!  Some could argue Watkins, Woods (the one who got away!) and Goodwin, but they’re not nearly what we have today (in my opinion).  The more this move has begun to settle the more intelligent and forward-thinking it presents itself as.  

[Shaw66]

14 minutes ago, DFT said:

Agree 100%!  Some could argue Watkins, Woods (the one who got away!) and Goodwin, but they’re not nearly what we have today (in my opinion).  The more this move has begun to settle the more intelligent and forward-thinking it presents itself as.  

Watkins and Woods were great in our imaginations, but they never showed they could actually do what we imagined for them.   Woods has done it since he left, and the Chiefs are still waiting for Watkins.   These three guys all are wearing a Bills uniform today, and all three of them showed last season and in seasons before that they can do what we imagine.  

 

That's special. 

[C.Biscuit97]

22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Watkins and Woods were great in our imaginations, but they never showed they could actually do what we imagined for them.   Woods has done it since he left, and the Chiefs are still waiting for Watkins.   These three guys all are wearing a Bills uniform today, and all three of them showed last season and in seasons before that they can do what we imagine.  

 

That's special. 

Watkins was great in our high school offense with Tyrod.  He also was the leading receiver for the Chiefs this postseason as they won a SB.  I guarantee they are completely fine with Watkins.  Injuries held him back.  

[Shaw66]

34 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Watkins was great in our high school offense with Tyrod.  He also was the leading receiver for the Chiefs this postseason as they won a SB.  I guarantee they are completely fine with Watkins.  Injuries held him back.  

Of course they're happy with him.  That's not what I meant.   In Buffalo he wasn't the receiver Bills fans hoped he would be, and he has never performed at that level in the NFL.   The Bills drafted him to be a #1 for 8 or 10 years.   He's never been a quality #1, let alone for five or more years.   But he's perfectly fine for KC, given the other receivers they put on the field.   That is, he 's fine as a #2, he's nearly a star a #3.  

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I just had a random reaction and wanted to say somewhere.   This thread seemed to be the right place. 

 

I was in the thread about whether Johnson could have impact from the edge this year.   I was talking about positions where we shouldn't be surprised if some rookie or second year guy might unexpectedly have an impact, like Johnson might on the edge.  I ran through the position groups.  When I got to receivers, I said that's a position where I wouldn't think it's likely.   I said it just doesn't seem likely that anyone is taking playing time from Diggs, Brown, and Beasley.

 

And I did a double take.   When was the last time any of us wrote the names of the Bills receivers and in their minds what we see now?   Moulds and Price, I suppose.   Moulds and Evans.   But really, I think you have to go back to Reed, Beebe and Lofton before you find as good a group.   

 

We should still be dancing in the streets over that move.   

 

Yes, indeed.......but only at a safe distance! 

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

Yes, indeed.......but only at a safe distance! 

I hope we come up with a solution to this virus thing soon; otherwise, the day after the next Super Bowl there's going to be a lot disease spread on the streets of Buffalo.  

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I hope we come up with a solution to this virus thing soon; otherwise, the day after the next Super Bowl there's going to be a lot disease spread on the streets of Buffalo.  

 

Out of all the seasons in the last quarter of a century, THIS is the one I LEAST want disrupted. Still, I’m sure there are people who would put down their 6 foot pole and hug everyone in sight regardless if the Bills could get just one trophy in their lifetime! 

[TigerJ]

On 3/19/2020 at 10:33 AM, Mat68 said:

KC is still tops imo.  Hill, Watkins, Hardmon and add in Kelce is too good.

I would say without a doubt KC's receiving group is the most dangerous in the AFC, but they weren't as productive as you might expect in 2019.

[TigerJ]

Beasley is a chain mover, but he's not the all over the field threat that some slot receivers are.  Both Brown and Diggs have the ability to score anytime.  Diggs, especially has the ability to get open on anybody.  I'm content to say they are one of the better WR trios in the AFC.  It will really take Josh Allen's transition to a new level to prove they can be the best.

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

Beasley is a chain mover, but he's not the all over the field threat that some slot receivers are.  Both Brown and Diggs have the ability to score anytime.  Diggs, especially has the ability to get open on anybody.  I'm content to say they are one of the better WR trios in the AFC.  It will really take Josh Allen's transition to a new level to prove they can be the best.

I agree about Allen.   And I agree generally about Beasley, although he will get deep for you when the defense makes a mistake.    He has something like Chris Hogan speed - he's not blowing past people, but he'll hurt you deep from time to time.  There aren't many teams that have a slot guy who's a true burner.  If you've got a 4.4 guy, you're desperately trying to get him to be 1 or a 2.  If he can't do either of those, he probably isn't a 3, either.   Think Marquise Goodwin or TJ Graham.   

 

Now, if you're KC, you have the luxury being able to run Tyreek Hill out of the slot sometime, and he's deadly there, but the only way a team runs Hill out of the slot is because they have enough other talent to "waste" him there from time to time.    

 

Fitzgerald always could have been a great slot receiver, but no team was willing to move him there until he wasn't quite good enough to be a serious 1 or 2.  

 

In other words, in terms of the kind of guys most teams are able to run in the slot, Beasley is about as good as they come.   Edelman, of course, and a few others, but Beasley is right up there.  

[GoBills808]

It's a VERY solid group...Lions, Cards, Browns, and Bucs clearly better off the top of my head

[below]

Evans and Godwin alone are better than our 3.

[TigerJ]

12 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree about Allen.   And I agree generally about Beasley, although he will get deep for you when the defense makes a mistake.    He has something like Chris Hogan speed - he's not blowing past people, but he'll hurt you deep from time to time.  There aren't many teams that have a slot guy who's a true burner.  If you've got a 4.4 guy, you're desperately trying to get him to be 1 or a 2.  If he can't do either of those, he probably isn't a 3, either.   Think Marquise Goodwin or TJ Graham.   

 

Now, if you're KC, you have the luxury being able to run Tyreek Hill out of the slot sometime, and he's deadly there, but the only way a team runs Hill out of the slot is because they have enough other talent to "waste" him there from time to time.    

 

Fitzgerald always could have been a great slot receiver, but no team was willing to move him there until he wasn't quite good enough to be a serious 1 or 2.  

 

In other words, in terms of the kind of guys most teams are able to run in the slot, Beasley is about as good as they come.   Edelman, of course, and a few others, but Beasley is right up there.  

I agree Beasley is very good, and yes, he'll break a deep one every once in a while.  He mostly gets open via his route running and short area quickness as he lacks size, serious deep speed and strength.  He is essentially a very smart receiver, who uses his intelligence to create opportunities.  If you can have that, plus some combination of speed, size and strength, you're talking elite, but I'll take what Beasley gives you any day of the week.