Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said: I saw some pinpoint ones but i saw a lot underthrown balls too. @GunnerBill reading Weos post and i was looking for drop % and couldnt find anything too helpful for receivers, but I did see he had 4 fumbles and notice some clips with him double handing the ball. I'm a bit concerned with that but kids a stud. Advanced rushing and receiving with drop % for Diggs here: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DiggSt00.htm Player advanced receiving (with drop %) here: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/receiving_advanced.htm 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 39 minutes ago, BillsFan3434 said: I love this trade just as much as the next guy because Diggs is a stud. I just hope Allen knows how to use him. Looking at the highlights from 2019 and a lot of those throws are pinpoint accurate from cousins. True, I did notice how accurate some of those throws were. But a lot of them also seemed to take several weeks to get there. Josh can throw some ropes to Diggs while he's still wide open before the DB can close again, unlike Cousins. And Diggs has great, snatchy hands, so he should handle those JA fastballs no problem. Hopefully Josh has been working on that deep ball too, because Smoke and Diggs are going to get each other open deep regularly. We'll see. Fun times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, BuffaloBill963 said: Houston fans going to revolt I'm no where near a Houston fan, and believe me I'm revolted! I feel Deshaun Watson should be placed under observation, unless he actually had some kind of falling out with Nuk that wasn't reported. The only thing saving me from open rebellion is @JoPoy88 and others who have pointed out that an in-conference trade for Nuk was NOT going down. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 44 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Sure beats the hell outta Deonte Thompson, Zay Jones & Kelvin Benjamin! Amen to that! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) Buscaglia: The stats are there, as is the remarkable talent he exudes on the field even on plays where he isn’t directly involved. I’m only a game and a half into the film of his 2019 season and I’ve already seen Diggs make defenders look silly several times with his setup, his speed into cuts and his ability to stop on a dime and gain separation. And separation is the name of Diggs’ game here. The Bills won’t have to worry as much about tight throwing windows for Allen over the next few years because Diggs creates a cushion against defenders. I think the underrated part of the Diggs deal is what this does for John Brown. Brown is a great route runner himself and has the ability to win in several different ways; now, without the focus of the defense solely on him, he should thrive next to Diggs. The way these two receivers win on their routes fits Allen’s skill set. Instead of a big receiver, what the Bills really needed is someone who can separate, win in the intermediate areas and make the tough catches with defenders draped over him. Diggs’ ability to go over the top is a bonus. Edited March 17, 2020 by Reed83HOF 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: The other math is to the Hopkins trade. Diggs' equivalent is Texans #2 pick plus the last pick in the 2nd round. Is David Johnson worth that difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill963 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) Well now we have a guy who can do this. Hopefully it’ll rub off on John Brown. 56 minutes ago, Lurker said: Well, I look at it as the entire nation is conditioned to think "the Bills never win anything," so the Vikings must have won that trade. But we got the best player in the deal and the Vikes got potential. It remains to be seen how well that potential plays out for them... Picks are picks. We have proven young talent in prime now. I couldn’t care less about analysis on this trade. We needed bonafide top talent and we got it. We can still grab another awesome maybe bigger WR in the deepest WR draft ever Edited March 17, 2020 by BuffaloBill963 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardhatharry Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, BuffaloBill963 said: Well now we have a guy who can do this. Hopefully it’ll rub off on John Brown. Picks are picks. We have proven young talent in prime now. I couldn’t care less about analysis on this trade. We needed bonafide top talent and we got it. We can still grab another awesome maybe bigger WR in the deepest WR draft ever I wouldn't put hopes up for a WR being awesome in rounds 2-3. The deepest potential at WR but lots will not work out just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Well, not right now... Talent wise....who knows? Lots of guys have talent, yet they don't produce commensurate with that talent. In this case, that's why Theilen is the better WR of the 2. I mean he isn't. But okay. 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBillsBeliever Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said: Jerry... Seriously... LAY OFF THE HAPPY DRUGS! Haven't you heard they can be addictive? And make you happy? You wouldn't want to be happy, now, would you Jerry? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I mean he isn't. But okay. I'm just going on what they have done on the same team. I have nothing else to base it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco_92 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 3 hours ago, LabattBlue said: Diggs wasn’t happy in Minny because he didn’t get the ball enough. I can’t imagine he is going to be any happier here. You also couldn't imagine Brady leaving NE, and told us so a dozen times. So you can see why we won't be too worried that it's tough for you to picture this being a success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 I don't know if anyone else posted this WGR Howard and Jeremy interview with a former WGR host who now works in Minnesota. He gave a glowing commentary about Diggs's talent and production. He made the observation that Diggs is a high intensity player and personality. This link is 15 min. If someone else posted this link I apologize for the redundancy. https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/03-17-matthew-coller-from-skor-north-in-minnesota-on-stefon-diggs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: I'm just going on what they have done on the same team. I have nothing else to base it on. That is fair if you are just looking at pure numbers. But we have seen now Diggs produce a 1,000 yard season without Theilen. I will have a little bet that Thielen doesn't do the same without Diggs unless they go and find him another running mate who can create those holes in defenses that Thielen feasts on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 39 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said: I saw some pinpoint ones but i saw a lot underthrown balls too. @GunnerBill reading Weos post and i was looking for drop % and couldnt find anything too helpful for receivers, but I did see he had 4 fumbles and notice some clips with him double handing the ball. I'm a bit concerned with that but kids a stud. @Hapless Bills Fan I know it's PFF, but 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Although the Bills paid retail so to speak for Diggs he is worth it in my opinion. First off he is on a very good deal for his level of production. And his deal is relatively easy to get out of after 2021. Secondly as much as I love McBeane with draft picks it wasn't like the team didn't have extra mid round picks to spare and pick 22 would have most likely been spent on a WR anyway. Why risk Josh Allen's development and the team's window to win on a rookie? When Diggs is a proven vet who immediately sets the WR1 tone for the next 3-4 seasons considering he turns 27 this season. Is it a risky move for Buffalo? Yes, but this is the season to take some risks. Last off-season the team was very prudent in making not too many splashy acquisitions in order to build a deep quality team. Well now that the foundation has been put in place you need to add those final few pieces. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco_92 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 If one more person says we could have had Hopkins for less, SDS should burn this place to the ground. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, arcane said: If one more person says we could have had Hopkins for less, SDS should burn this place to the ground. I don't think its unreasonable to compare the two deals. Especially when we could have had Hopkins and for so much less. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: That is fair if you are just looking at pure numbers. But we have seen now Diggs produce a 1,000 yard season without Theilen. I will have a little bet that Thielen doesn't do the same without Diggs unless they go and find him another running mate who can create those holes in defenses that Thielen feasts on. In 6 games without Theilen, Diggs had 143, 4, 49, 121, 25 and 92 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, arcane said: If one more person says we could have had Hopkins for less, SDS should burn this place to the ground. Oh come now. Overreact much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco_92 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Just now, Jauronimo said: I don't think its unreasonable to compare the two deals. Especially when we could have had Hopkins and for so much less. ??????????????????????????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: In 6 games without Theilen, Diggs had 143, 4, 49, 121, 25 and 92 yards. Either way Minnesota moved into a run team with Cook finally healthy. Rudolph and Thielen are enough for them to stay effective. I would of been extremely happy to take any of their 3 top pass catchers. Diggs was the most logical and highest upside 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, arcane said: If one more person says we could have had Hopkins for less, SDS should burn this place to the ground. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 I'm convinced @Mr. WEO doesn't actually watch football. He just follows the box scores. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco_92 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: Oh come now. Overreact much? I think we can all agree that this place is often maddening to different people at different points. Seeing as your job includes cleaning up on/after game days, I know you must relate. For whatever reason, me watching posters point out (correctly) that the Hopkins deals is one of the worst in NFL history, and then immediately try to trash this one using that one as an example, has put me over the edge. I'd much rather compare this to normal GMs making trades, like Bill B giving up a 2nd for Sanu, or the Falcons a 2nd for a backup TE. The return for this trade is well worth what we are getting, and I don't think there's any analysis you can do on this draft or drafts in general that could ever suggest otherwise, and these clowns comparing it to the Hopkins trade and pretending we could have given our 2nd to houston for Hopkins haven't come close to beginning even the most rudimentary "analysis" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: @Hapless Bills Fan I know it's PFF, but PFF is great when they stick to actual data or things that are reasonably close to actual data (like drops). Where I have a quarrel with them is when they get into creating numbers that look like data and are touted as data, but are actually someone's subjective perception of stuff that didn't happen but might have happened AKA "making ***** up" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: PFF is great when they stick to actual data or things that are reasonably close to actual data (like drops). Where I have a quarrel with them is when they get into creating numbers that look like data and are touted as data, but are actually someone's subjective perception of stuff that didn't happen but might have happened. "Potentially interceptable throws" or the like aka "Making ***** Up." I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: Either way Minnesota moved into a run team with Cook finally healthy. Rudolph and Thielen are enough for them to stay effective. I would of been extremely happy to take any of their 3 top pass catchers. Diggs was the most logical and highest upside It's a good trade. They had to do something. Diggs is 2 orders of magnitude better than any pass catcher the Bills had on the roster last season 2 minutes ago, SWATeam said: I'm convinced @Mr. WEO doesn't actually watch football. He just follows the box scores. This is rich.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: In 6 games without Theilen, Diggs had 143, 4, 49, 121, 25 and 92 yards. Which would be good for an average of 72 yards per game and 1,150 yards over a season. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: @Hapless Bills Fan I know it's PFF, but Half (9) of those have come over the past 2 seasons (233 targets). 1/3 (6) of his career total last year (94 targets). 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Which would be good for an average of 72 yards per game and 1,150 yards over a season. True. But he was under 50 yards for 3 games without Theilen in the lineup. Essentially blanked in 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: True. But he was under 50 yards for 3 games without Theilen in the lineup. Essentially blanked in 2. Yep. He does have inconsistencies that Theilen doesn't - I said that right at the top. But at his best he is unplayable in a way I have never thought Theilen to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Just now, GunnerBill said: Yep. He does have inconsistencies that Theilen doesn't - I said that right at the top. But at his best he is unplayable in a way I have never thought Theilen to be. Here's hoping. He won't have Theilen opposite him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: I don't think its unreasonable to compare the two deals. Especially when we could have had Hopkins and for so much less. I guess that I would ask at this point for somebody to show the board that we actually walked away from a smoking deal for Hopkins versus blindly speculating. It takes two to make a deal and the fact that Hopkins is out of the AFC on the cheap means that Bill O'B was not dealing in the conference in my mind. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: I don't think its unreasonable to compare the two deals. Especially when we could have had Hopkins and for so much less. Posters are really discounting two things First, Hopkins was traded to a NFC team Second, if David Johnson is healthy again he is a top back that can run and catch. Bills had neither of those two things to offer Houston. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Just now, Mr. WEO said: Here's hoping. He won't have Theilen opposite him here. He won't and he will demonstrate beyond any doubt he is a true #1 in his own right. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: I guess that I would ask at this point for somebody to show the board that we actually walked away from a smoking deal for Hopkins versus blindly speculating. It takes two to make a deal and the fact that Hopkins is out of the AFC on the cheap means that Bill O'B was not dealing in the conference in my mind. You will get nothing and like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: He won't and he will demonstrate beyond any doubt he is a true #1 in his own right. Knox actually showed potential to be that Theilen-like physical big WR at times last year - to just out physical and out muscle and pwn the DB the way Theilen can. If he can get the "bunny drops" under control, don't leave him out of the Bills receiver calculus. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: Knox actually showed potential to be that Theilen-like physical big WR at times last year - to just out physical and out muscle and pwn the DB the way Theilen can. If he can get the "bunny drops" under control, don't leave him out of the Bills receiver calculus. I am still a Knox fan. I think he is a candidate for a break out year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 24 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: I don't think its unreasonable to compare the two deals. Especially when we could have had Hopkins and for so much less. No we couldn’t have. If that were true. It would’ve happened. 22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: In 6 games without Theilen, Diggs had 143, 4, 49, 121, 25 and 92 yards. That works out to 1157 yards over 16 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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