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Tag for Phillips?

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Phillips had a breakout year this season, which just happened to be in his contract year.  We're seen these situations before, where a guy plays exceptionally well in his contract year and then reverts to mediocrity.  If he gets the big, multi-year contract he wants from the Bills, we'll be overpaying him for years.  Tagging means possibly overpaying for one year, but keeping his rights while we see if he can keep playing at that high level.

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16 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Isn't it like 15mil for D Tackles?

 

I'd pass unless a tag and trade was worked out

yep.  he was clearly playing not for the Bills last year, but 100% in anticipation of FA.

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I lovee what Phillips has done since being cut by the Dolphins and joining the Mafia ... let me repeat cut from the Dolphins ... but if can't work out more economical longer term deal .. rather than franchise ..  I'd rather see the $15MM go to the other side of the ball.  Granted we have large cap space .. but not sure we invest $15MM in one year's worth of performance.

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3 million per year sounds like an awful lot of money to me..

 

image.jpeg.db70ae4c7b6ecb3a890e4f40cc771fb3.jpeg
 
 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by HOUSE
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17 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Isn't it like 15mil for D Tackles?

 

I'd pass unless a tag and trade was worked out

2020 Projected Franchise and Transition Tenders

Position Franchise Tag Transition Tag
QB $26,895,000 $24,373,000
DE $19,316,000 $16,338,000
WR $18,491,000 $15,926,000
CB $16,471,000 $14,570,000
LB $16,266,000 $14,080,000
OL $16,102,000 $14,666,000
DT $15,500,000 $12,321,000
S $12,735,000 $10,801,000
RB $12,474,000 $10,189,000
TE $11,076,000 $9,267,000
ST $5,297,000 $4,884,000

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No punters and place kickers or have they combined that into ST now?

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I heard that AB is now requesting that the Bills sign him AND that he will take the veteran minimum. see link to down news period in NFL. 

Edited by BuffaloMatt

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12 hours ago, aristocrat said:

who do we replace him with if we don't tag him? 


Christian Covington 

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11 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:


Christian Covington 

 

not sure i want to get rid of our sack leader. i'd like to milk him for all he's got

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1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

 

not sure i want to get rid of our sack leader. i'd like to milk him for all he's got


I’m going to pass on paying a guy with one good season as a pass rusher and marginal run defender $12M under a tag.

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18 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Isn't it like 15mil for D Tackles?

 

I'd pass unless a tag and trade was worked out

With 90 million in cap space they could easily take on the 15 million then part ways with him at the end of the season.  15 million does sound like a lot of money though.  

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14 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

not sure i want to get rid of our sack leader. i'd like to milk him for all he's got

 

So you have to look at why he got the sacks and what else he did.  I want Phillips back, but the Bills are looking at his role in their system.  McDermott is big on DL rotation.  In McDermott's system, lots of sacks from the DT are a double-edged sword.  Sometimes Phillips pursuing sacks came at the expense of run D, meaning he would guess wrong, and penetrate too quickly pursuing a possible sack - and lose gap integrity 'cuz, run play.  Him trying to be super-quick off the snap and get a sack cost us a defensive Offside in the Pitts. game that put them in FG range in the 2nd Q.  (He actually was NOT Offside, bad call, but when a DT gets into the backfield that fast the refs will call it).


Phillips is rotating with Ed Oliver, who came on at the end of the season.  Oliver and Phillips ended the season with almost a 50/50 snap count split, but the fine detail is that Phillips had 60-70% of the snaps in a 4 game stretch mid season, then at the end Ed came on strong and Phillips lost snaps to him.  The hope is that Ed is a "rising tide" who will further develop next season;  you don't draft a guy high in the 1st to sit more than he has to.  You also don't pay a different guy $12M or $15M or lock him up in a long-term big-money contract if you're expecting your 1st round rookie to continue to take his snaps.

The Bills overpaid for Star when McDermott was desperate to turn around the "culture" in a DL room that had the highest-paid player, Captain Big Puff,  showing late to meetings when he didn't sleep through 'em and taking plays off.  They feel less need to overpay now, which is why they just asked Star to swap $$ for guarantees.

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3 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

yep.  he was clearly playing not for the Bills last year, but 100% in anticipation of FA.

 

TBH, I don't think that's fair to Phillips.  I think he was legit having a good time here, improving his game, loving his teammates (remember how he lifted Josh up after a TD, like Simba?).  I think he was playing for both.

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19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

TBH, I don't think that's fair to Phillips.  I think he was legit having a good time here, improving his game, loving his teammates (remember how he lifted Josh up after a TD, like Simba?).  I think he was playing for both.

 

He was a 2nd round pick from a big program school that went to a horribly run team. I think folks are a bit unfair saying he was just playing for the potential payout. Of course that would play into it a bit, as it would for ALL of us. But it's not like he came out of nowhere. He could just as easily be starting to hit his prime and very well worth the money.

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If the Bills want to keep him..... 

 

Just work out a deal and don't mess with the Franchise Tag. 

 

Its not worth it.   

 

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2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Christian Covington 

 

So here's the question

How important is it, in your view, to keep size on our DL?

 

Covington is 6'2", 289

 

Phillips is 6'6", 349

Oliver is 6'3", 292

 

Lotulelei listed at 6'2", 315 (think he's heavier)

Harrison Phillips 6'3", 307

 

Corey Liuget listed at 6'2", 300 (think he's heavier)

Vincent Taylor 6'3", 311

 

I "get it" that "it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog", but other things being equal.... doesn't size matter?

Big J9797 does have that "trait you can't coach"

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So here's the question

How important is it, in your view, to keep size on our DL?

 

Covington is 6'2", 289

 

Phillips is 6'6", 349

Oliver is 6'3", 292

 

Lotulelei listed at 6'2", 315 (think he's heavier)

Harrison Phillips 6'3", 307

 

Corey Liuget listed at 6'2", 300 (think he's heavier)

Vincent Taylor 6'3", 311

 

I "get it" that "it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog", but other things being equal.... doesn't size matter?

Big J9797 does have that "trait you can't coach"

 

 

 


That he does...but if he’s only a so-so run stopper using that size, then I’m not as concerned.

 

If we want a big body to plug in there, I’m just as content signing a Michael Pierce or DJ Reader.

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3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

That he does...but if he’s only a so-so run stopper using that size, then I’m not as concerned.

If we want a big body to plug in there, I’m just as content signing a Michael Pierce or DJ Reader.

 

So I thought that Phillips run D did improve this year

Do you think that's what Beane meant in his presser when he said "I think he still has room to develop" or words to that effect?

 

Note: I am not advocating for a tag, transition or franchise.  I think Beane would like to keep Phillips, but they have a value on him given his role on the team, and they're willing to "bend but not break" it to keep him.  His agent calls Beane and says "we got a Linval Joseph type deal lined up", Beane says "good for you!"

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1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So I thought that Phillips run D did improve this year

Do you think that's what Beane meant in his presser when he said "I think he still has room to develop" or words to that effect?


Yeah probably.

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3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:


I’m going to pass on paying a guy with one good season as a pass rusher and marginal run defender $12M under a tag.

 

 

I really hadn't even considered tagging Jordan Phillips until now............IMO he really stinks against the run.

 

He has that NT weight and that's what people see....... but he's really tall and long legged so the kind of pad level that might work for DJ Reader doesn't work for him and I'm not sure if he will ever be willing or able to play with better leverage against the run. 

 

But if teams go crazy tagging more prospective UFA's than expected............it might be a good idea to tag him late in the process and then take your chances that he might sign it while you negotiate with alternatives like Covington or Gerald McCoy or Vernon Butler etc..

 

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3 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

With 90 million in cap space they could easily take on the 15 million then part ways with him at the end of the season.  15 million does sound like a lot of money though.  

Problem is I'm not sure if he's worth that much

 

He isn't a gap sound player which is important in McDermott's defense and is prone to being out of position

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2 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

If the Bills want to keep him..... 

 

Just work out a deal and don't mess with the Franchise Tag. 

 

Its not worth it.   

 

What if they would like his services for one more season but don't want to lock him up long term?  

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57 minutes ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

What if they would like his services for one more season but don't want to lock him up long term?  

 

Its a risk either way.  He had more sacks this season than his entire career.   The major question is - Can he repeat that? 

 

You make him an offer that can easily be managed with bonuses and out clauses. 

 

Some players don't like to be tagged and the headache that comes with it IMO is not worth it. 

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