The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[GG]

6 hours ago, Hedge said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

In his press conference today, DiBlasio added that if at any time the family is ready to claim the family member, they will be ready to return to the family.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 minutes ago, shoshin said:

The State governments are currently prohibiting most Americans’ rights to assemble, including yours because not all the rights in the Constitution always peaceably coexist. 
 

You have the right to assemble but not if it is a danger to others. Same with the right to free speech (the proverbial yelling “fire” in a movie theater). Same likely with the unwritten right to privacy invoked by the anti-tracking people against tracing contacts of people infected with Covid 19. When your “rights” endanger others, they are not untethered. 

 

So you're anti-abortion right?

[shoshin]

15 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

So you're anti-abortion right?

 

Not relevant to the Covid discussion. 

[FreddieJizzle22]

30 minutes ago, fansince88 said:

How many screen names does Tibs have?

 

So you think antibiotics should be used to treat viruses????

 

Also I’m a BBMB “alumni”....lol.

Edited April 11, 2020 by FreddieJizzle22

[shoshin]

41 minutes ago, TPS said:

The death rate per million is very relevant, but the comparison you were trying to make was not correct.

You came into this thread a little later than some, so if you look back at my posts, I always acknowledged that the China ban was a good move, however, they squandered the advantage it gave them by thoroughly screwing up getting the testing up to a rapid scale.

This summarizes it: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/politics/coronavirus-testing-cdc-fda-red-tape-invs/index.html

 

As for underestimating the impact, the security briefings in January and February are well known now, as is the fact that some of our eminent congress critters used the inside info to sell and or buy stock.  In addition, there were very early estimates of the contagion factor that showed it was very contagious. Even some early study's by American researchers: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.07.20021154v1

 

 It's pretty clear the Administration is doing damage control...and looking to blame anyone but themselves...

 

The Administration 100% knew of the danger in Jan and Feb and didn't do enough to react to it. But no one else did either. Lots of politicians, including De Blasio, Pelosi, and Trump downplayed the risk (go to restaurants, come to China town, we will be at zero) and it hurt our ability to get ready. Their conduct should be reviewed in November. 

 

February was a lost month to prepare but this was coming whether we had done more or not. 

 

Philadelphia's mayor says the city should expect to be shutdown through the summer. He might as well drop bombs on the city like they did in the 70s. Total ass to 1) think that's possible, and 2) say it. We need to get the Eff back to work. Put on your masks, work from home where possible, avoid crowds, people at risk be even more careful, wash your hands, take your temp, submit to temperature testing and tracking, test the hell out of people...and let's get this thing back up and running. 

 

My wife said her team just found out about about 3 nursing home outbreaks locally today. Those are just the worst. My wife's stepmother is in an over 55 community and if she leaves for any reason (she's totally fine to drive normally), they will only allow her back in if she immediately submits to a 3 week quarantine. They are freaking out in places like that, with good reason. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by shoshin

[Magox]

29 minutes ago, TPS said:

The death rate per million is very relevant, but the comparison you were trying to make was not correct.

You came into this thread a little later than some, so if you look back at my posts, I always acknowledged that the China ban was a good move, however, they squandered the advantage it gave them by thoroughly screwing up getting the testing up to a rapid scale.

This summarizes it: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/politics/coronavirus-testing-cdc-fda-red-tape-invs/index.html

 

As for underestimating the impact, the security briefings in January and February are well known now, as is the fact that some of our eminent congress critters used the inside info to sell and or buy stock.  In addition, there were very early estimates of the contagion factor that showed it was very contagious. Even some early study's by American researchers: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.07.20021154v1

 

 It's pretty clear the Administration is doing damage control...and looking to blame anyone but themselves...

If you are going to go that route then virtually every governor failed as well.  Considering they were all warned by Trumps task force beforehand and hardly any of them took action.

 

———————————————————————————-

 

 

Although concerns over coronavirus and its ramifications didn't manifest until March in the U.S., U.S. governors were briefed February 9 at the National Governors Association Winter Meeting by members of Donald Trump's coronavirus task force on the growing threat of the respiratory

Despite this, many states did not immediately react and resumed business as normal, including New Orleans going forward with Mardi Gras celebrations and parades.

Mardi Gras was celebrated February 25 with the traditional parade down Bourbon Street, which usually takes about 2.5 hours and is attended by thousands of people from all over the country – and even many international travelers.

The celebrations across the state, and specifically in New Orleans, sparked a major outbreak in Louisiana, leading it to become the fourth deadliest state in the nation with 370 deaths as of Sunday.

Centers for Disease Control Director Robert Redfield and the government's top immunologist and infectious diseases expert Anthony Fauci revealed the threats of coronavirus to governors in early February.

The NGA meeting was hosted by Chairman and Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, and attended by more than half of the nation's state leaders.

Hogan said Redfield and Fauci's statements were alarming to several governors at the time.

'The doctors and the scientists, they were telling us then exactly what they are saying now,' Hogan, a Republican, told The Washington Post in an article published Saturday.

 

—————————————————————————————

 

If you are going to be consistent then by your standard since we know that they were all explicitly warned, Cuomo, Whitmer and Bell were the most reckless characters of them all 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8189775/amp/Louisiana-governor-claims-no-idea-New-Orleans-Mardi-Gras-trigger-coronavirus-outbreak.html

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Magox

[GG]

17 minutes ago, Magox said:

If you are going to go that route then virtually every governor failed as well.  Considering they were all warned by Trumps task force beforehand and hardly any of them took action.

 

———————————————————————————-

 

 

Although concerns over coronavirus and its ramifications didn't manifest until March in the U.S., U.S. governors were briefed February 9 at the National Governors Association Winter Meeting by members of Donald Trump's coronavirus task force on the growing threat of the respiratory

Despite this, many states did not immediately react and resumed business as normal, including New Orleans going forward with Mardi Gras celebrations and parades.

Mardi Gras was celebrated February 25 with the traditional parade down Bourbon Street, which usually takes about 2.5 hours and is attended by thousands of people from all over the country – and even many international travelers.

The celebrations across the state, and specifically in New Orleans, sparked a major outbreak in Louisiana, leading it to become the fourth deadliest state in the nation with 370 deaths as of Sunday.

Centers for Disease Control Director Robert Redfield and the government's top immunologist and infectious diseases expert Anthony Fauci revealed the threats of coronavirus to governors in early February.

The NGA meeting was hosted by Chairman and Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, and attended by more than half of the nation's state leaders.

Hogan said Redfield and Fauci's statements were alarming to several governors at the time.

'The doctors and the scientists, they were telling us then exactly what they are saying now,' Hogan, a Republican, told The Washington Post in an article published Saturday.

 

—————————————————————————————

 

If you are going to be consistent then by your standard since we know that they were all explicitly warned, Cuomo, Whitmer and Bell were the most reckless characters of them all 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8189775/amp/Louisiana-governor-claims-no-idea-New-Orleans-Mardi-Gras-trigger-coronavirus-outbreak.html

 

 

 

Which begs the question of which global health organization was the main clearing house of information about this virus?

 

Asking for a close family member.

 

25 minutes ago, FreddieJizzle22 said:

 

So you think antibiotics should be used to treat viruses????

 

Also I’m a BBMB “alumni”....lol.

 

Which drug family azithroycin belong to?

[keepthefaith]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

There’s no defense for Acosta. He’s purposely giving crap to the President and has been for three years. He is pure garbage!

 

He is pure garbage.  The question if asked without the "happy talk" comment would have at least been relevant.

[FreddieJizzle22]

9 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Which begs the question of which global health organization was the main clearing house of information about this virus?

 

Asking for a close family member.

 

 

Which drug family azithroycin belong to?

Sigh. 

[B-Man]

Chloroquine is an effective drug for malaria, lupus and chronic rheumatoid arthritis, but it has significant side effects, including gastrointestinal distress and potential permanent vision damage. It can also be deadly at a relatively low dose. 
 

 

Azithromycin is a widely-used antibiotic for bacterial infections. Side effects include upset stomach, diarrhea, nausea, vomiting or abdominal pain.

 

 

While production of these drugs increases, physicians will likely use the combination and others to treat COVID-19 under hospital conditions, if they can acquire enough doses of them. 
 

 

[Gene Frenkle]

12 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The difference is that one of the two sides is the one putting in ALL of the hard work and the other side is doing NOTHING but standing on the sideline whining about how they would have run a different play.

Are you talking about yourself personally, or just your team?

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

He is pure garbage.  The question if asked without the "happy talk" comment would have at least been relevant.

 

That was awful when said happy talk when Acosta asked. Nothing is happy about this coronavirus.  For everyone.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[GG]

25 minutes ago, FreddieJizzle22 said:

Sigh. 

 

I’m not familiar with that drug family.  Please expand.

[reddogblitz]

10 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

So...How did the major media outlets so misread the Russia investigation, how did they misread the tea leaves, how did their sources fail them so badly, and how did they miss the malfeasance at the FISA court level and  upper echelon of the FBI?  I know how I square it, I'm just wondering how you saw it?  Was it incompetence, intentional or something else?

 

How did they miss out on the lack of WMDs?  How did they miss out on Hillary NOT being a slam dunk in 2016?  There are so many examples.

Edited April 11, 2020 by reddogblitz

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Don't know if been posted but this is wonderful from President Trump

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

 

Not relevant to the Covid discussion. 

 

Just checking for standards consistency

[meazza]

1 hour ago, FreddieJizzle22 said:

 

So you think antibiotics should be used to treat viruses????

 

Also I’m a BBMB “alumni”....lol.

Is there an issue?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

42 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

How did they miss out on the lack of WMDs?  How did they miss out on Hillary NOT being a slam dunk in 2016?  There are so many examples.

Reddogblitz = Reddogright.   
 

Though, on WMDs, my thought at the time was that everyone in the world thought there were WMDs in Iraq.  I recall....hmm, Hans Blix (?) from the UN saying as much before the war, and I always viewed that scenario as Hussein playing chicken with the wrong Texan.  I’ve learned a lot since that time, but that was my read at the time.  
 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

16 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Reddogblitz = Reddogright.   
 

Though, on WMDs, my thought at the time was that everyone in the world thought there were WMDs in Iraq.  I recall....hmm, Hans Blix (?) from the UN saying as much before the war, and I always viewed that scenario as Hussein playing chicken with the wrong Texan.  I’ve learned a lot since that time, but that was my read at the time.  

 

That whole fiasco is (obviously) a much longer discussion -- but that was not an uncommon assumption, even within the honest parts of the IC. 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, FreddieJizzle22 said:

So you think antibiotics should be used to treat viruses????

 

Also I’m a BBMB “alumni”....lol.

 

You wouldn't think that HCQ (and zinc) would treat a virus.  But it does.  Just like you wouldn't think a blood pressure medication would give you a *****.  But it does.

 

2 hours ago, B-Man said:

Chloroquine is an effective drug for malaria, lupus and chronic rheumatoid arthritis, but it has significant side effects, including gastrointestinal distress and potential permanent vision damage. It can also be deadly at a relatively low dose. 
 

 

Azithromycin is a widely-used antibiotic for bacterial infections. Side effects include upset stomach, diarrhea, nausea, vomiting or abdominal pain.

 

 

While production of these drugs increases, physicians will likely use the combination and others to treat COVID-19 under hospital conditions, if they can acquire enough doses of them.

 

Just to clarify, hydoxychloroquine, which is what is being used, has fewer side effects than chloroquine. 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Doc

[Hedge]

 

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Ya looks like we have ACE 2 receptor in our lungs, heart, intestines, kidneys. And some other places. Just wondering if get covid19 in heart cause of ACE2 (heart failure). Does it count like that or some other failure?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin-converting_enzyme_2

 

Angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2)^[5] is an enzyme attached to the outer surface (cell membranes) of cells in the lungs, arteries, heart, kidney, and intestines.^[6][7] ACE2 lowers blood pressure by catalysing the cleavage of angiotensin II (a vasoconstrictor peptide) into angiotensin (1–7) (a vasodilator).^[8][9][10] ACE2 also serves as the entry point into cells for some coronaviruses.^[5] The human version of the enzyme is often referred to as hACE2.^[11]

ACE2 counters the activity of the related angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) by reducing the amount of angiotensin-II and increasing Ang(1-7)^[12] making it a promising drug target for treating cardiovascular diseases.^[13][14

Edited April 11, 2020 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[Hedge]

Michigan:

 

 

[Kevbeau]

2 hours ago, Hedge said:

Michigan:

 

 

Was wondering if the lotteries were still operating....hypocrites 

[mannc]

4 hours ago, Hedge said:

Michigan:

 

 

The governatorial insanity is spreading far more rapidly than the virus itself.  I have not looked closely at the issue, but I seriously question the legal basis for a governor’s ability to unilaterally close almost the entirety of a state’s schools and economy.  Hopefully there are serious challenges to these orders in the legal pipeline—to the extent our court systems are still intact.

Edited April 11, 2020 by mannc

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, Hedge said:

Michigan:

 

 

 

Can't let people have any measure of Independence. My suspicion grows daily.

[Tiberius]

 

 

Nursing home residents are among those most likely to die from the coronavirus. Chelsea Stahl / NBC News; Getty Images

 

 

April 10, 2020, 4:07 PM EDT / Updated April 10, 2020, 6:33 PM EDT

By Suzy Khimm, Laura Strickler, Andrew Blankstein and Peter Georgiev

Nearly 2,500 long-term care facilities in 36 states are battling coronavirus cases, according to data gathered by NBC News from state agencies, an explosive increase of 522 percent compared to a federal tally just 10 days ago.

The total dwarfs the last federal estimate on March 30 — based on “informal outreach” to state health departments — that more than 400 nursing homes had at least one case of the virus.

 

The full scale of the virus’ impact is even greater than NBC News’ tally, as key states including Florida did not provide data, and nursing homes across the United States are still struggling for access to testing.

The toll of these outbreaks is growing. NBC News tallied 2,246 deaths associated with long-term care facilities, based on responses from 24 states. This, too, is an undercount; about half of all states said they could not provide data on nursing home deaths, or declined to do so. Some states said they do not track these deaths at all.

Nursing home residents are among those most likely to die from the coronavirus, given their advanced age and the prevalence of other health conditions. But the federal government does not keep a formal tally of the number of coronavirus deaths in nursing homes or the number of facilities with infections, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said.

[SoCal Deek]

10 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

 

Though, on WMDs, my thought at the time was that everyone in the world thought there were WMDs in Iraq.  I recall....hmm, Hans Blix (?) from the UN saying as much before the war, and I always viewed that scenario as Hussein playing chicken with the wrong Texan.  I’ve learned a lot since that time, but that was my read at the time.  
 

 

 

Not to digress too far but my father was actually one of the infamous UN Missile Inspectors. He had his bags packed and ready to go to Iraq when we attacked. I can assure you that he and the team of inspectors (who were assembled from many different countries) weren’t kidding around!

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

The governatorial insanity is spreading far more rapidly than the virus itself.  I have not looked closely at the issue, but I seriously question the legal basis for a governor’s ability to unilaterally close almost the entirety of a state’s schools and economy.  Hopefully there are serious challenges to these orders in the legal pipeline—to the extent our court systems are still intact.

Whitmer's order disallows purchase of seeds and paint and staying at your cottage (only if you are a resident---people from other states can come and stay at their cottages in Michigan). It still allows a person to go into a store and purchase lottery tickets and visit relatives in nursery homes. She very well might make a good partner for Joe Biden. -)

[billsfan1959]

13 hours ago, TPS said:

The death rate per million is very relevant, but the comparison you were trying to make was not correct.

You came into this thread a little later than some, so if you look back at my posts, I always acknowledged that the China ban was a good move, however, they squandered the advantage it gave them by thoroughly screwing up getting the testing up to a rapid scale.

This summarizes it: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/politics/coronavirus-testing-cdc-fda-red-tape-invs/index.html

 

As for underestimating the impact, the security briefings in January and February are well known now, as is the fact that some of our eminent congress critters used the inside info to sell and or buy stock.  In addition, there were very early estimates of the contagion factor that showed it was very contagious. Even some early study's by American researchers: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.07.20021154v1

 

 It's pretty clear the Administration is doing damage control...and looking to blame anyone but themselves...

 

I think you must have come into this thread a little late as the idea that, during January and February, Trump and his administration were completely oblivious to all of the overwhelming evidence of what they and the world were about to face with COVID-19 has been pretty well debunked. Based on any accurate rendition of facts regarding knowledge of the virus during that time frame, any reasonable person would conclude that, before the end of February, nobody knew what was coming - and I could list you behaviors of leaders in this country (on both sides and all levels) and leaders of countries all around the world as added evidence. 

 

If you want to say this administration waited too long, fine, then be equally admonishing to everyone.

 

I love the CNN article you cite with their continuing "unbiased" look at the facts. They love to point out that South Korea and the United States each experienced their first case within one day of each other and that on "March 13, when the total number of US coronavirus tests finally cracked 10,000, South Korea was doing that many tests daily." What they fail to mention is that South Korea was in closer proximity to China and their cases started to spike much sooner,  experiencing a spike in cases almost a full three weeks before the US experienced a similar spike. On March 13, South Korea was experiencing 156 cases per million, the United States was experiencing 3 cases per million. By the time the United States was experiencing 156 cases per million they were testing between 100,000 - 150,000 per day.

 

I'm not going to argue that South Korea wasn't quicker to begin testing and did far more tests per capita earlier than the US. However, I would aslo say that what happened in South Korea was an anomoly compared to what has happened in every other country. In addition, South Korea's new cases per day peaked on March 3rd, giving an indication, along with the lies coming out of China, that the virus could be contained and brought under control fairly quickly. The epicenter in Europe, Italy was just starting to spike with a little over 2000 cases and the United States still only had 124 cases.

 

There isn't a country with a substantial population and a significant amount of cases that has come close to replicating what happened in South Korea. The only country outside of South Korea, with any substantial number of cases, that seems to have done a good job is Germany. I would argue that what is transpiring here more closely parallels Germany than Italy, Spain, France, the UK, etc.

 

Would I have liked to see this country better prepared, react sooner, and have better testing capabilities sooner? Yes. However, I seriously doubt any administration would have done much differently, given the information at hand. When this is all over, all these questions can be asked, everything can be analyzed, and I am sure plenty of mistakes will be identified and there will be enough blame to go around.

 

However, if you insist on having to point fingers and find blame, at least have the intellectual honesty to spread it around equally. 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by billsfan1959

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Can't let people have any measure of Independence. My suspicion grows daily.

Papers, please!

Edited April 11, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

Papers please!

 

I posted that upthread. Dangerous precedent being set here.

[SoCal Deek]

The whole testing clap trap is a waste of breath. Since the virus doesn’t present itself until you’re already well infected and have therefore spread it to DOZENS of other people around you, testing is a nice statistic but does literally nothing to stop the spread. That is unless the government is ready to take people who test positive away in a van and lock them up in a containment camp! However here, Trump even mentioned in passing, locking down NYC and the media went apesh&t nuts!  

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I posted that upthread. Dangerous precedent being set here.

Absolutely. We've been down this road before. Once the government rescinds a freedom or imposes a law/tax, we never go back.

And people are perfectly ok with this.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Absolutely. We've been down this road before. Once the government rescinds a freedom or imposes a law/tax, we never go back.

And people are perfectly ok with this.

 

Because people are idiots.

[Buffalo_Gal]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Because people are idiots.

I blame the parents. When kids were no longer allowed to take their chances with jarts, things went downhill fast.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I blame the parents. When kids were no longer allowed to take their chances with jarts, things went downhill fast.

 

 

I blame the generalized demasculinization of our society. But yes, jarts too.

[shoshin]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Absolutely. We've been down this road before. Once the government rescinds a freedom or imposes a law/tax, we never go back.

And people are perfectly ok with this.

You don’t think we got our right assemble back after the Spanish Flu? And back then there were —mandatory— vaccinations. Now people are proud (and stupid) of not getting vaccinated. 
 

During times of war and pandemic, constitutional rights have been abridged before. Like now with the right to assemble. And there are other examples. Not to mention the everyday ones mentioned already where constitutional rights collide (yelling fire in a movie theater). 

 

This is bad enough without the histrionics about millions dead, bodies in the streets, and the start of a Brave New World/1984 police state. Let’s call the bull#### when we see it and fight back of it gets extended too far. 
 

Right now we need to control this disease To some extent and get back to work as soon as possible without risking another shutdown if/when the big case wave comes after this little wave dies down.

 

 

 

[CommonCents]

7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I blame the generalized demasculinization of our society. But yes, jarts too.

Skinny jeans.

[Buffalo_Gal]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I blame the generalized demasculinization of our society. But yes, jarts too.

"demasculinization" as in feminine? Buddy, until you push a 10 pound spawn out your hoo-ha, you don't know toughness, pain, and suffering. Men should be so strong.

Let's just settle on people today are comfortable, spoiled, and seldom taught/learn history.