How about MVP Lamar Jackson today?

[atlbillsfan1975]

9 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

My agenda?

 

You are making blanket statements and I’m the one with an agenda?  I saw a very poised QB who, for the sake of the league, I hope continues to develop. I also saw another QB, with less options, appear confused. I hope that he too, for the good of the Bills, continues to develop.

I watched Lamar play against Buffalo, SF, NE and Seattle. He is a runner who makes defenses guess if he is going to run and thus this gets his TE’s open.  The Bills slowed him down big time. Make Lamar play QB and see if he can beat you. The scoring is going down against athletic good defenses like the Bills and 49ers. I expect that will continue. We can agree to disagree. Lamar needs to develop his game to be a long time QB in the league, otherwise he is destined for a much shorter career. 

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

In college. In the Big 12 where nobody plays defense. 

 

So, what you're saying is....that he was a passing QB who could run while in college (Big 12), but Reid turned him into a passing QB who could run in the NFL?

 

That's pretty funny.

 

Anyway, last year, Big 12 went 3-1 against SEC in bowl games, scoring 28, 45 and 38 against the Conference That Always Plays Defense.

[Big Gun]

35 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

My agenda?

 

You are making blanket statements and I’m the one with an agenda?  I saw a very poised QB who, for the sake of the league, I hope continues to develop. I also saw another QB, with less options, appear confused. I hope that he too, for the good of the Bills, continues to develop.

I'll bet you when it's all done and said Allen has the longer better career by a lot.

 

Jackson is a flash in the pan like Kaepernick, RG3, the wildcat, Tyrod, etc. The league will catch up to Roman again, usually takes a year or so for the effectiveness of his QB to become less and less effective, it happened to Kaep and Tyrod, LJ is next.

[Mr. WEO]

26 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I watched Lamar play against Buffalo, SF, NE and Seattle. He is a runner who makes defenses guess if he is going to run and thus this gets his TE’s open.  The Bills slowed him down big time. Make Lamar play QB and see if he can beat you. The scoring is going down against athletic good defenses like the Bills and 49ers. I expect that will continue. We can agree to disagree. Lamar needs to develop his game to be a long time QB in the league, otherwise he is destined for a much shorter career. 

 

Against SF, NE and Buffalo, the answer was "he can".

[atlbillsfan1975]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Against SF, NE and Buffalo, the answer was "he can".

I never seen so much love for an opponents QB. It’s all conjecture. To this point Lamar hasn’t accomplished anything. Let’s see what happens over the next couple of months.

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Against SF, NE and Buffalo, the answer was "he can".

I can only hope we're as generous w/Allen when he puts up a similar line and not say the defense bailed us out. 

[Bangarang]

3 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I never seen so much love for an opponents QB. It’s all conjecture. To this point Lamar hasn’t accomplished anything. Let’s see what happens over the next couple of months.

He’s having an MVP caliber season. Allen gets so much love and praise just for being competent, I can only imagine how giddy everyone would be if he was being as productive as Lamar. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Bangarang

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I never seen so much love for an opponents QB. It’s all conjecture. To this point Lamar hasn’t accomplished anything. Let’s see what happens over the next couple of months.

 

I'm not sure you used that word correctly...

 

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I can only hope we're as generous w/Allen when he puts up a similar line and not say the defense bailed us out. 

 

Why wouldn't I?  I've been solid behind JA.  You  won't see that because it injures your narrative crusade.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

Why wouldn't I?  I've been solid behind JA.  You  won't see that because it injures your narrative crusade.

My narrative crusade? Do tell!

[atlbillsfan1975]

16 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He’s having an MVP caliber season. Allen gets so much love and praise just for being competent, I can only imagine how giddy everyone would be if he was being as productive as Lamar. 

I’d be happy for the now but concerned for the future. I see red flags. 

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'm not sure you used that word correctly...

 

 

Why wouldn't I?  I've been solid behind JA.  You  won't see that because it injures your narrative crusade.

Yes I did. On that note I’m stepping out of this discussion. I have my opinion you are all welcome to yours. I think it safe to say neither one of us is changing the others mind. I do not want to get into some silly fight on here. Especially since it has to do with a player from another team. I appreciate your opinion and stance. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by atlbillsfan1975

[StHustle]

7 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He’s having an MVP caliber season. Allen gets so much love and praise just for being competent, I can only imagine how giddy everyone would be if he was being as productive as Lamar. 

 

Lamar now leads the NFL in TD Passes. Has 28 with only 6 INTs and as much as he runs...only 1 lost fumble on the year. Over 1000 yards rushing BUT GUESS WHAT?!?! Josh Allen has him beat in passing yards by 60. So there's that.

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

My narrative crusade? Do tell!

 

 

I can't tell you what you already know.

4 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I’d be happy for the now but concerned for the future. I see red flags. 

Yes I did.

 

What is  "all conjecture"?--- that he's one of the best players and leading scorer in the NFL this year and a leading candidate for MVP?

4 minutes ago, StHustle said:

 

Lamar now leads the NFL in TD Passes. Has 28 with only 6 INTs and as much as he runs...only 1 lost fumble on the year. Over 1000 yards rushing BUT GUESS WHAT?!?! Josh Allen has him beat in passing yards by 60. So there's that.

 

 

All pure "conjecture" (if I'm using the word correctly).

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I watched Lamar play against Buffalo, SF, NE and Seattle. He is a runner who makes defenses guess if he is going to run and thus this gets his TE’s open.  The Bills slowed him down big time. Make Lamar play QB and see if he can beat you. The scoring is going down against athletic good defenses like the Bills and 49ers. I expect that will continue. We can agree to disagree. Lamar needs to develop his game to be a long time QB in the league, otherwise he is destined for a much shorter career. 

He may indeed be destined for a much shorter career. Taking the hits that he and Allen did yesterday aren’t what you want to see if you’re looking towards long term QB play.

[Billl]

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I watched Lamar play against Buffalo, SF, NE and Seattle. He is a runner who makes defenses guess if he is going to run and thus this gets his TE’s open.  The Bills slowed him down big time. Make Lamar play QB and see if he can beat you. The scoring is going down against athletic good defenses like the Bills and 49ers. I expect that will continue. We can agree to disagree. Lamar needs to develop his game to be a long time QB in the league, otherwise he is destined for a much shorter career. 

Jackson averaged 5.8 yards per attempt.  Allen averaged 3.7.  The best passing QB on the field was wearing purple.  The Ravens have the highest scoring offense in the NFL.  Their offense put up the service highest point total against the Bills this season.  The Ravens are steamrolling to the number 1 seed in the AFC, and Jackson is the runaway favorite for MVP.  

 

If what he's done doesn't impress Bills fans, you might as well drag Josh out behind the stadium and put a bullet in him because there is zero reason to believe he'll ever touch what Lamar is doing.

[Boca BIlls]

23 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

We made him look pretty ordinary.

 

Someone in the 2nd half thread said he is a great read-option QB, nothing more, and I agree. He looked lost when Andrews went out of the game, and kept throwing to the backup TE who fortunately for them is a good football player. 

 

Hopefully, the book on him is now out. Don't fall for the ball trickery, set the edge, don't overpursue, and eliminate the TE's. Force him to throw long into tight coverage. 

Still MVP... He played one of the best defenses in the league a few times this year and has won every game.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Boca BIlls

[Scott7975]

7 minutes ago, Billl said:

Jackson averaged 5.8 yards per attempt.  Allen averaged 3.7.  The best passing QB on the field was wearing purple.  The Ravens have the highest scoring offense in the NFL.  Their offense put up the service highest point total against the Bills this season.  The Ravens are steamrolling to the number 1 seed in the AFC, and Jackson is the runaway favorite for MVP.  

 

If what he's done doesn't impress Bills fans, you might as well drag Josh out behind the stadium and put a bullet in him because there is zero reason to believe he'll ever touch what Lamar is doing.

Greatly helped by his 15 yard pass that was taken another 45 yards to the house by an untouched 260lb TE.

 

I am impressed by what Jackson and the Ravens have done this year.  I just don't think its sustainable.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Greatly helped by his 15 yard pass that was taken another 45 yards to the house by an untouched 260lb TE.

 

I am impressed by what Jackson and the Ravens have done this year.  I just don't think its sustainable.

I thought his final TD pass - the where he rolled right and threw it back inside - was the best offensive play by anyone on the field yesterday. That was good quarterbacking. Judging from the Bills' defenders reactions, they couldn't believe it. 

[Billl]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

Greatly helped by his 15 yard pass that was taken another 45 yards to the house by an untouched 260lb TE.

 

I am impressed by what Jackson and the Ravens have done this year.  I just don't think its sustainable.

Yeah, kind of like how Josh's stats would have been greatly helped by receivers running into the endzone for long touchdown catch and runs if he hadn't overthrown them by 5 yards every time one of them got behind the defense.  The difference is that Lamar hit his man in stride.  That's a feature, not a bug.

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I thought his final TD pass - the where he rolled right and threw it back inside - was the best offensive play by anyone on the field yesterday. That was good quarterbacking. Judging from the Bills' defenders reactions, they couldn't believe it. 

 

That was a great play.  I agree.

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

Yeah, kind of like how Josh's stats would have been greatly helped by receivers running into the endzone for long touchdown catch and runs if he hadn't overthrown them by 5 yards every time one of them got behind the defense.  The difference is that Lamar hit his man in stride.  That's a feature, not a bug.

Throwing a 15 yard pass on blown coverage directly in front of you is a little different than hitting the long ball down the sideline 30+ yards downfield when the receiver has a step.  Should Josh have hit those passes?  I would hope that he makes them a lot more often than he does, but the plays aren't even anywhere near the same.

 

Josh also hit Beasley in stride. Im sure Josh stats would have been greatly helped by him catching the ball.  Same with Knox.  Same with Singletary.  The ball was there for Singletary.  He misplayed it.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Scott7975

[GoBills808]

18 minutes ago, Billl said:

If what he's done doesn't impress Bills fans, you might as well drag Josh out behind the stadium and put a bullet in him because there is zero reason to believe he'll ever touch what Lamar is doing.

This seems like a totally normal, totally rational thing to say.

[Scott7975]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

This seems like a totally normal, totally rational thing to say.

Oh god I didn't even read that part until you quoted the section.  I just read up until the comma.

[ngbills]

36 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

That was a great play.  I agree.

Throwing a 15 yard pass on blown coverage directly in front of you is a little different than hitting the long ball down the sideline 30+ yards downfield when the receiver has a step.  Should Josh have hit those passes?  I would hope that he makes them a lot more often than he does, but the plays aren't even anywhere near the same.

 

Josh also hit Beasley in stride. Im sure Josh stats would have been greatly helped by him catching the ball.  Same with Knox.  Same with Singletary.  The ball was there for Singletary.  He misplayed it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scott7975]

6 minutes ago, ngbills said:

 

 

 

 

 

and your comment is what?

[Tesla03]

2 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I watched Lamar play against Buffalo, SF, NE and Seattle. He is a runner who makes defenses guess if he is going to run and thus this gets his TE’s open.  The Bills slowed him down big time. Make Lamar play QB and see if he can beat you. The scoring is going down against athletic good defenses like the Bills and 49ers. I expect that will continue. We can agree to disagree. Lamar needs to develop his game to be a long time QB in the league, otherwise he is destined for a much shorter career. 

 

Allen is destined for a short career as well if we dont' fix our oline and he doesn't learn how to throw the ball away and avoid sacks....

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Against SF, NE and Buffalo, the answer was "he can".

with the help of the refs not calling 12 men in the huddle 

 

say what you will. That non call backs up the Ravens and could have kept them from scoring a TD.   
 

 

[Maine-iac]

7 minutes ago, ngbills said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jackson was more accurate and more consistent on Sunday.  I'm not sure why that bothers everyone so much.  I'd be more upset if we had no answers for anything but it's really pretty simple.  Allen starts hitting even half of the throws when we get behind the defense and we start scoring more points.  I think he can do it and I can't think of a better time than the next couple of weeks when we are making a playoff push.  No doubt in my mind that defenses will be giving him opportunities.

[ngbills]

12 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

and your comment is what?

Those are easy passes that JA has to hit. Just as easy if not easier than the one Jackson hits that you stated was a much easier pass. Jackson actually has Hughes on top off him about to hit him. Allen has open WR's and a clean pocket on both and is throwing right over the top. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by ngbills

[Ravensfan0911]

2 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I never seen so much love for an opponents QB. It’s all conjecture. To this point Lamar hasn’t accomplished anything. Let’s see what happens over the next couple of months.

 

I don’t think anyone here is arguing LJ had a great game. In fact I’d argued he struggled for much of the game. I think that’s more a testament to the bills D than a knock on LJ. 

 

People on here are saying the bills have figured out this offence. I call BS. it isn’t rocket science to defend what the ravens are doing. I’d say there’s only a handful of teams who are built to actually stop it. What Greg Roman is calling isn’t new but it is well executed and not many teams have the personnel to stop it.

 

LJ didn’t have a great game but you can’t take away everything he has done this year from one not great game on the road against maybe the best defense in the league. If this was RW or PM who put up a stinker no one would be saying they’d be out of the league in a year. He’s a very deserving mvp candidate based on his complete body of work this season.  

 

BTW The throw to hurst in the blown coverage was a good play by LJ. It isn’t his fault it was a blown coverage. He stood in the pocket, stepped into his throw and took a big hit to make that play. 

[Pokebball]

On 12/8/2019 at 3:49 PM, Bangarang said:

The book on him is out? He threw 3 TDs and didn’t look nearly as rattled or erratic as Allen. So many horrible takes on Lamar. He’s having a great season.

Threw?  Calling one of those a throw is rather generous  

[Rob's House]

2 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I never seen so much love for an opponents QB. It’s all conjecture. To this point Lamar hasn’t accomplished anything. Let’s see what happens over the next couple of months.

 

That's what I was thinking. Yeah, the guy's having a good year, but I don't get why so many Bills fans are popping wood over the guy on the other team.

[Scott7975]

25 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Those are easy passes that JA has to hit. Just as easy if not easier than the one Jackson hits that you stated was a much easier pass. Jackson actually has Hughes on top off him about to hit him. Allen has open WR's and a clean pocket on both and is throwing right over the top. 

Yes,  I said that I would hope he hit more of those.  Disagree that they were easier than Jacksons pass.  Jackson could see the busted coverage from the get go.  Hurst had 5 yards on Poyer with no one else in sight.

[SoTier]

6 hours ago, ngbills said:

Bills played Jackson great. Unfortunately he did just enough to get the win. Saw the open WR on the long play and delivered the ball. On his little trick play that is the difference between a TD and FG on that drive. So we shut him down but just not enough. 

 

I am curious if the people here saying Jackson sucked are the same that make excuses for our offense every week. You know the we are 9-3 or now 9-4 that is all that matters. Allen plays in the clutch when is needed so who cares what else he does. Yards mean nothing. Blah Blah Blah. 

 

My guess is that they are whether they post those excuses or not.   It seems that some of them feel a real need to excuse the shortcomings of the Bills offense by denying opponents' good play.

 

4 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Lamar was stopped all day.... Baltimore has great field position most the day, he completed a pass here and there. Take off the 60 yard TD he throws under 100 yds and rushes for 40. His first TD came from the 4 yd line that should have been backed up by 12 in the huddle. Then the 60 yd blown coverage by Poyer and the Snead TD where Edmunds was out of position and left his zone open. Lamar did enough to win, it wasn’t that impressive. Baltimore’s Defense and our lack of offense was the difference in the game. Lamar did nothing special that makes one say, “Lamar beat us, Lamar couldn’t be stopped, Lamar made plays left and right,” that didn’t happen. 

 

Guess what, good defenses can make even great QBs look ordinary.  Watch the lowlights of Aaron Rodgers versus the Niners D last month.  Great QBs, though, usually manage to do just enough to win even against good defenses.

 

2 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I watched Lamar play against Buffalo, SF, NE and Seattle. He is a runner who makes defenses guess if he is going to run and thus this gets his TE’s open.  The Bills slowed him down big time. Make Lamar play QB and see if he can beat you. The scoring is going down against athletic good defenses like the Bills and 49ers. I expect that will continue. We can agree to disagree. Lamar needs to develop his game to be a long time QB in the league, otherwise he is destined for a much shorter career. 

 

Jackson's passing game has improved from where it was last season at least as much Allen's has, and that's an impressive accomplishment for both.  However, Jackson has already developed into a better QB than Allen at this point.  That doesn't mean that one or both are destined for failure and success.  One or both could stop developing like Vick or Kaepernick or continue to develop like QBs like Brady, Brees, Rodgers or Wilson have done.

 

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I never seen so much love for an opponents QB. It’s all conjecture. To this point Lamar hasn’t accomplished anything. Let’s see what happens over the next couple of months.

 

Let me guess, you're still not convinced that Mahomes and Watson are franchise QBs, either.

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

That's what I was thinking. Yeah, the guy's having a good year, but I don't get why so many Bills fans are popping wood over the guy on the other team.

 

Because some of us don't only watch the Bills ...

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

with the help of the refs not calling 12 men in the huddle 

 

say what you will. That non call backs up the Ravens and could have kept them from scoring a TD.   
 

 

 

 

Yeah maybe.  Or maybe it wouldn't have to come down to too many men in a huddle not called....

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

and your comment is what?

 

Poyer roasted again...

[Rob's House]

43 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Because some of us don't only watch the Bills ...

 

I still don't get it.

 

If he'd just knocked off the Pats, or any other team for that matter, it would make a bit more sense.

 

Bills fans on a Bills board getting hot for the QB that just beat us is weird to me.

[WeSmashPeons]

1 hour ago, Rob's House said:

 

That's what I was thinking. Yeah, the guy's having a good year, but I don't get why so many Bills fans are popping wood over the guy on the other team.

Maybe because they appreciate greatness. you know, like football fans tend to do. The question is why so many other Bills fans are so butthurt about it, it was ONE game against a Superior opponent, not the end of the world unless the Bills get punked by the steelers which is highly likely to happen cause Josh Allen is average at best against real teams.

[billsfan89]

On 12/8/2019 at 3:02 PM, Protocal69 said:

2 plays cost us the game today. The Hurst 61 yards for the TD and the Josh Allen fumble. We wasn’t a push over so that’s that

 

The O-lines inability to protect Josh with any consistency was the key to the game in my opinion. The fumble and other issues offensively were caused by the Raven's conssitnet pressure. But that being said the Bills went toe to toe with one of the best teams in the league. No moral victories but when assessing this team and Josh you can come away with some positives to go along with the negatives.  

[DasNootz]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Not even close.  It's not even in the top 20.  Maybe you were thinking of Mahomes?  Rodgers? Goff? Garroppolo?  Brady?  They are all in the top 5.   

 

Admittedly I haven’t done the homework... but is that list cumulative yards or factored by attempts?  The names above each will have substantially more attempts than Jackson. 

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

Admittedly I haven’t done the homework... but is that list cumulative yards or factored by attempts?  The names above each will have substantially more attempts than Jackson. 

 

Cumulative.  But, for instance, 47% of Mahomes's "passing yards" are YAC.  For Jackson it's 40%

[nucci]

If Jackson was on the Bills and doing this I'm guessing your opinions would change