Buffalo Junction Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 This is why Roberts is on the roster... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 5:45 PM, Warcodered said: Didn't he have the 3rd most return yards going into this game? I mean he hasn't had a homerun yet but he's been consistently good. Returning yards from end zone to inside 25 should count as negative yards from the 25. And I do not want hear about homeruns with Bills - makes me throw-up and why introduce baseball analogy into football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 2 hours ago, DCOrange said: I think most would agree he’s a good returner. Where we differ is that being a good returner still isn’t valuable in today’s NFL Do people forget how bad the return game was last year? A bad return game can cost you games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 (edited) The most important thing a returner does it catch the ball. My HS coach taught me that and it makes sense. Don't catch it and its hidden yards lost, not to mention fumbling the catch which is job removal. He is excellent at it and offers a threat on the return. The reason he runs it out is because of the "chance" he breaks it for the big one. Don't try it, never get it. I see no big problem as our average starting position, last I checked, was among the leaders. Edited December 14, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 On 12/13/2019 at 12:22 AM, Da webster guy said: Wait, didnt he have 66 and 76 yard returns in back to back games for us this year? ...doesn't matter.....if it's not EVERY game, you earn the "TBD Bust" label..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 On 12/13/2019 at 8:46 AM, DCOrange said: According to Football Outsiders, his return skills (which have been among the best in the league this year) is good for roughly 5 points above the average team (0.36 points per game). This is pretty poor analysis. I imagine having a top 5 LT compared to a bottom 10 LT is good for about the same number of expected points, if not less. The same will be true for most roles on the team outside of QB. No one player contributes that much. Football teams are built on the sum of their parts. And what player that we deactivate on game day is giving us more expected points per game? TJ Yeldon? Duke Williams? Ryan Bates? Roberts doesn't make mistakes and picks up better than average yardage on his returns. That's a lot more valuable than you give credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 4:45 PM, Warcodered said: Didn't he have the 3rd most return yards going into this game? I mean he hasn't had a homerun yet but he's been consistently good. Correct, Andre' Roberts still has 3rd most return yards in NFL at 26.8 yds, down from a couple weeks ago where it was over 30 yds due to being stuffed so much by the Ravens. He hasn't scored a TD but his long return is 66 yds and he also has a 44 yd, a 40 yd, and a 31 yd return. A couple of those had game impacts. And on average, he does slightly better than taking the touchback (again, this was better before the Ravens game) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Correct, Andre' Roberts still has 3rd most return yards in NFL at 26.8 yds, down from a couple weeks ago where it was over 30 yds due to being stuffed so much by the Ravens. He hasn't scored a TD but his long return is 66 yds and he also has a 44 yd, a 40 yd, and a 31 yd return. A couple of those had game impacts. And on average, he does slightly better than taking the touchback (again, this was better before the Ravens game) Yeah people seemed to of jumped on this because of the Ravens game where we played against a former ST coordinator now HC who weirdly enough has his team playing great STs. Sure as the game went on I thought they should give returning the kickoff a rest because the Ravens were so on it so well but Roberts almost always got it right around the 25 anyway and there was always a chance for some magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 4 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Do people forget how bad the return game was last year? A bad return game can cost you games. Per FootballOutsiders (I know I know), our return game is 10 points better than the worst return team in the league. Less than 1 point per game. 2 hours ago, HappyDays said: This is pretty poor analysis. I imagine having a top 5 LT compared to a bottom 10 LT is good for about the same number of expected points, if not less. The same will be true for most roles on the team outside of QB. No one player contributes that much. Football teams are built on the sum of their parts. And what player that we deactivate on game day is giving us more expected points per game? TJ Yeldon? Duke Williams? Ryan Bates? Roberts doesn't make mistakes and picks up better than average yardage on his returns. That's a lot more valuable than you give credit for. I’m not sure any of our reserves are good enough to warrant benching Andre, but I think it could be argued that Andre isn’t really bringing any value anyways so might as well try the WR that gives us a different aspect to the offense. At any rate, we can agree to disagree. Hopefully we can move on after the year is up when we hopefully have a more talented roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97bills Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 4:50 PM, Ethan in Portland said: Roberts has been fine. He makes decent decisions and is sure handed. He's not the problem on the 46. Gore doesn't even belong on the 53. Yeldon should be active. Gore has brought nothing to this team. This 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Why the hell does he bring it out of the end zone like every time, only to get crushed at the 20 or, like here, get a penalty. We start at the 10 instead of the 25. Waste of a spot by a guy who thinks he can make something out of every return. No, he can’t. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 He does catch the ball better than some of the other wrs... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Roberts is solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 On 12/14/2019 at 4:13 PM, DCOrange said: Per FootballOutsiders (I know I know), our return game is 10 points better than the worst return team in the league. Less than 1 point per game. I’m not sure any of our reserves are good enough to warrant benching Andre, but I think it could be argued that Andre isn’t really bringing any value anyways so might as well try the WR that gives us a different aspect to the offense. At any rate, we can agree to disagree. Hopefully we can move on after the year is up when we hopefully have a more talented roster. 2 really good returns called back by penalty. He's doing just fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 46 minutes ago, Dopey said: 2 really good returns called back by penalty. He's doing just fine. So you agree those returns didn't count for anything then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, DCOrange said: So you agree those returns didn't count for anything then. No, I disagreed with your assessment that he has no value. Try as you might, you ain't twisting things here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Just now, Dopey said: No, I disagreed with your assessment that he has no value. Try as you might, you ain't twisting things here. You literally pointed to two plays that had negative or no value as evidence of Roberts having value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBobby Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 He just needs to kneel when the ball touches the endzone. His KO returns are useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Just now, DCOrange said: You literally pointed to two plays that had negative or no value as evidence of Roberts having value. You're really blaming him for those negative plays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Dopey said: You're really blaming him for those negative plays? It doesn't matter who is to blame. Those penalties are coming no matter who the punt returner is and they're coming for every team in the NFL. That's a big reason why punt returns are essentially worthless; you're as likely to lose yards as you are to gain them even if you have an elite returner. We would probably be better off selling out to block every punt so that we can't possibly be called for illegal block in the back and then just fair catch the punt (or let it bounce if we think it'll be a touchback). The EPA on our punt returns relative to the worst team in the league is a difference of 6.5 points in 13 games. The only team with an EPA of more than 1 point per game relative to the worst team in the league is the Saints, who are 6 points better than the #2 team. Anywho, don't really want to argue back and forth on the night that we clinched a playoff spot. Let's just agree to disagree and enjoy the postseason Edited December 16, 2019 by DCOrange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Why does he always run it towards the closest sideline? I'm guessing its because of blocks but man go for it and go for the open area and bust one. I've been disappointed with him so far. Wanted to see at least one brought to the house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Just now, DCOrange said: It doesn't matter who is to blame. Those penalties are coming no matter who the punt returner is and they're coming for every team in the NFL. That's a big reason why punt returns are essentially worthless; you're as likely to lose yards as you are to gain them even if you have an elite returner. We would probably be better off selling out to block every punt so that we can't possibly be called for illegal block in the back and then just fair catch the punt (or let it bounce if we think it'll be a touchback). The EPA on our punt returns relative to the worst team in the league is a difference of 6.5 points in 13 games. The only team with an EPA of more than 1 point per game relative to the worst team in the league is the Saints, who are 6 points better than the #2 team. 1st you say he's of no value, then you say it doesn't matter who you blame. Way to shift away from your "Roberts has no value" rant to an overall special teams complaint. Then you say you'd prefer the kick return team to not try. Sounds like you just wanna complain about something. Done here. Moving on. Not worth discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dopey said: 1st you say he's of no value, then you say it doesn't matter who you blame. Way to shift away from your "Roberts has no value" rant to an overall special teams complaint. Then you say you'd prefer the kick return team to not try. Sounds like you just wanna complain about something. Done here. Moving on. Not worth discussing. Alright, I said I wasn't going to continue going back and forth, but it seems you misunderstood my point. I'm not trying to be mean here; I'm just attempting to be as clear as I possibly can be because I really haven't shifted my argument at all. Kick and punt returns are worth nearly nothing. Because kick and punt returns are worth nearly nothing, that means that having a player active solely to handle those roughly worthless plays means that that player is bringing roughly no value to the team. It is indeed an overall special teams complaint, specifically in regard to kick and punt returns. Andre Roberts is specifically a kick and punt returner and nothing else; therefore the complaint applies to him. One last time: It's not specifically Andre Roberts that I have a problem with; it's having anybody that is a dedicated kick/punt returner. It's the same argument as hating when we used to have a kickoff specialist. It's not that our kickoff specialists were bad at kickoffs; it was the fact that having a kickoff specialist, no matter how good they were, was poor use of a roster spot. The same is basically true of kick/punt returners in today's NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Holy *****, you people are batshit crazy. I get moaning about Roberts after the Ravens game (I really don't, but it's a free board), but tonight? And saying penalties are his fault? Unbelievable. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 4 hours ago, UConn James said: Why the hell does he bring it out of the end zone like every time, only to get crushed at the 20 or, like here, get a penalty. We start at the 10 instead of the 25. Waste of a spot by a guy who thinks he can make something out of every return. No, he can’t. he’s the reigning all-pro. That may have something to do with it. Good lord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvbillsfan Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I’ll say this about Roberts, I have absolutely no fear of him muffing a punt when he’s back there. Makes it look easy to be a punt catcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Holy *****, you people are batshit crazy. I get moaning about Roberts after the Ravens game (I really don't, but it's a free board), but tonight? And saying penalties are his fault? Unbelievable. seriously. It’s like a reflexive reaction for these nonces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenboy81 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Wrong. What do you want Mckelvin back there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 28 minutes ago, DJB said: Why does he always run it towards the closest sideline? I'm guessing its because of blocks but man go for it and go for the open area and bust one. I've been disappointed with him so far. Wanted to see at least one brought to the house Funny because 90% of fans that understand anything about football know the security blanket he provides with his sure hands. The coaches love him and don't need to sweat when the other team punts. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 minute ago, wvbillsfan said: I’ll say this about Roberts, I have absolutely no fear of him muffing a punt when he’s back there. Makes it look easy to be a punt catcher. He has some of the surest hands I’ve ever seen, especially on punts. Makes it look effortless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Holy *****, you people are batshit crazy. I get moaning about Roberts after the Ravens game (I really don't, but it's a free board), but tonight? And saying penalties are his fault? Unbelievable. Nobody said this. Anyways, I promise I'll stay out of this now lol. Edited December 16, 2019 by DCOrange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, DCOrange said: Nobody said this. Anyways, I promise I'll stay out of this now lol. You're right, they lower his value to the team because the value of any ST play where there is a penalty is zero so, why have Roberts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 8 hours ago, JMF2006 said: Funny because 90% of fans that understand anything about football know the security blanket he provides with his sure hands. The coaches love him and don't need to sweat when the other team punts. Oh I'm well aware that he has great hands back there and hasn't coughed it up, but I do want to see him break one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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