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Hind sight being ridiculously 20/20: should the Bills have picked up the 5th year on Shaq?

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Glad Beane makes these decisions and not me.

No 5th was smart at the time.

 

 Interested in seeing what we do. Kind of a ways away tho...

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I’m generally all for trying to keep our draft picks and it seems like a long time that one of the Bills picks saw a 2nd contract..( although that looks likely to change the last couple of classes.)

 

I think when they had to make the call though  he wasn’t playing up to the money..

 

If you could decide now, they probably keep him..

 

He is no super star but I like his attitude and his play this year... he seems a good fit in the rotation .. I wouldn’t  be against them trying to keep him although this doesn’t seem to happen a lot with the spurned 5th year player generally deciding to move on..

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Good teams find under performing talent get them up to performance level and then let other teams over pay for them. 

 

Thats how I feel about both Shaq Lawson and Jordan Phillips. Guys like them are replacement level, I know both love Buffalo but you can find other guys who will produce like them for a fraction of the price. Now if both Lawson and Phillips dont find the big money in Free Agency then sure you circle back around and make them an offer that you find is fair.

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8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not sure what this means 

The poster I was replying to said,

 

"That's one of my concerns honestly - if he needed a contract year to motivate him to play well, once he gets paid will he still be motivated.  Obviously the hope would be that he bought into The Process and his approach/mindset has been changed going forward."

 

The point I'm making is this is exactly what Marcell did. There was motivation to get the big contract. After that, ZERO motivation. I'm not saying Shaq and Dareus are equal. I agree with the poster that the hope is that Shaq has bought into the process and this wouldn't be an issue. But if he didn't play great in years 1-3, there's concern that after getting that contract, he could revert back to the way he was in those years. I trust that Beane would make the right decision there.

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Just now, CLTbills said:

The poster I was replying to said,

 

"That's one of my concerns honestly - if he needed a contract year to motivate him to play well, once he gets paid will he still be motivated.  Obviously the hope would be that he bought into The Process and his approach/mindset has been changed going forward."

 

The point I'm making is this is exactly what Marcell did. There was motivation to get the big contract. After that, ZERO motivation. I'm not saying Shaq and Dareus are equal. I agree with the poster that the hope is that Shaq has bought into the process and this wouldn't be an issue. But if he didn't play great in years 1-3, there's concern that after getting that contract, he could revert back to the way he was in those years. I trust that Beane would make the right decision there.

Thanks!

As I mentioned it’ll be interesting to see if the upward trajectory of the franchise has any impact on player negotiations. We’ve all been wondering for years and years if it would. Now, we’re going to see. 

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1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Magic 8 Ball says....

 

 

 

 

Thank you, WEO.  Up-voted both you here and Dk in his thread with respect to the above.  

Edited by dollars 2 donuts
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No. He’s an average, rotational DE. Not worth the 5th year option, IMO. They need to try and find another legitimate pass rusher at the position in the off season. Shaq is good vs the run and provides depth so they should hang onto him or Murphy but not both. If Shaq walks for a big offer then that settles the question of who gets replaced.

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No he had shown no growth for 3 seasons.

 

I recently heard Chris Brown strongly implying that the organization was not impressed with his dedication to football after last season so bear that in mind.

 

The objective was to get the most out of him this year.   If he had the security of another year on his deal why would anyone expect anything different than he had shown in his first 3 seasons? 

 

Salary drives do that.   Mission accomplished.  

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He's was drafted to be a big 3-4 defense edge setter in Rex's defunct defense.  Ragland was drafted to be on 3-4  inside backer thumper-type.   Neither position exists in the 4-3 played now.

 

My guess is he is he'll be offered a fair contract, but will be let go as the 4-3 we play now needs twitching edge rushers.  He is too big/slow to be a 4-3 end in the NFL.   Its all good.  Some 3-4 team will grab him and pay up to have him set their edge in a 3-4.   And likely so will finally end all remaining legacy from the defunct Rex Ryan defense.   Good riddance. 

 

Trust the Process.

Edited by ProcessTruster

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1 hour ago, billsfanmiami(oh) said:

I think they did the right thing, although I think Shaq has been having a very nice year. I think he’s had “motivation” issues in past offseasons, strange how a big payday hanging over the head can light the fire...

He had a solid year last season and is having a very strong season now. Sometimes players take a few seasons to reach their potential. I do think he'll sign elsewhere, some team will make offer him more than we care to pay, I would think. I can't see Shaq being one of the players Beane gives the massive extension to. But his leaving will leave a massive hole on the line.

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1 hour ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Throwing in a little butterfly effect, though, if he had the 5th year would he be the same Shaq we are getting now?

 

I actually think he showed us a little something last year.

 

Mods, I’m being honest here, I did not check if this was an already existing topic and it might be.  Please feel free to lock this puppy up if it is.


a long term deal is gonna be cheaper. His value is likely 8M AVV Max. I think they played it right. 
 

what is interesting is seems picks after 10 overall are seeing less and less 5th year option exercised. Would love to see the real breakdown but it feels that way. 

Edited by MAJBobby
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1 hour ago, Putin said:

Who’s been playing better then him on our DL? 

He’s been awesome against the run and very effective / actually creating havoc in the backfield/ rushing the passer 

 

I'd say he is the beneficiary of the scheme where they have a lot of movement that create free lanes for him to slide through, especially as of late.  I don't see him being as effective in other schemes which routinely require him to beat his man one on one.

Edited by matter2003

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20/20 hindsight says "pick Will Fuller'..or "trade down".

 

That 1,2,3 draft of Lawson, Ragland (11 ahead of Deion Jones) and Washington was brutal..

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4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

20/20 hindsight says "pick Will Fuller'..or "trade down".

 

That 1,2,3 draft of Lawson, Ragland (11 ahead of Deion Jones) and Washington was brutal..


Three starters “right off the bus“ according to Whales...

 

I will say though that Lawson was picked around where most of the “experts” had him before the draft that year... Didn’t seem a reach at the time..

 

 

 

Edited by Aussie Joe
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15 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

I'd say he is the beneficiary of the scheme where they have a lot of movement that create free lanes for him to slide through, especially as of late.  I don't see him being as effective in other schemes which routinely require him to beat his man one on one.

He's having a very good season, simple as that. Probably our best lineman so far this season. No need to try to discredit his performance.

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They made the right call on the 5th year option. We all like how he's playing this season but obviously it makes people wonder where this kind of play has been in past seasons. I've also noticed most of his sacks are usually due to coverage. He's a decent player in their rotation and I'm sure they'll offer him a modest contract but being that he plays a high demand position there'll probably be a team out there that overpays for him and we know Beane doesn't do bidding wars.

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To me, it is pretty obvious why they didn’t. The question now is, is his performance increase this season an actual buy in to the team concepts, or is it a motivation for money, it certainly can be both of these things at the same time. Imo the team will resign him if his ego doesn’t get in the way.

 

Go Bills!!!

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1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

No.  Shaq showed nothing in his first 3 years here to justify the option.

Good decision at the time.  And, even if the Bills successfully resign Shaq, it won't be for the top money that the 5th year designation brings.   Shaq may well get paid,  but not at the top tier of edge guys. imho....he is a middle/bottom tier....legit NFL, but not elite.  But, we didn't see that even until year 4, so Shaq is peaking in his contract year.  I think, in the current administration, that attitude plays a roll in the Bills decisions as well.  And, with his on field antics, its hard to judge what McD thinks of him on the score.  (other than he puts him on the field)

Edited by bigK14094
Additional thought added

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33 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:


Three starters “right off the bus“ according to Whales...

 

I will say though that Lawson was picked around where most of the “experts” had him before the draft that year... Didn’t seem a reach at the time..

 

 

 

 

 

For those shorting the XFL....they are in good hands.

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No.  I think it was a good move to decline the option.  Some team is going to overpay him hopefully not the Bills.  I think drafting a DE in the 1st round is in play.  Signing a FA WR to pair up with Brown I hope is in the cards. 

 

Regarding Jordan Phillips, I'd let him walk too.  He's good and having a nice season but is going to command so much money.  I think prudent moves are to re-sign Liuget and Vincent Taylor and extend either Milano and/or Dawkins.  Tre White will be priority next year.

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He still - STILL - looks out of shape to me.  How many other EDGE rushers do you see with a beer gut?  I'm glad he's playing with a bit more suddenness this year but it was absolutely the right call not to exercise the option.

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