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Stop Kicking the Ball In Bounds

EmotionallyUnstable
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Kick it Out of Bounds?  

81 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see the Bills make every kick and/or punt non-returnable?

    • Yes - why even give the other team a chance to return the ball
      24
    • No - Special teams plays give us a chance to severely change field position, or cause a turn over.
      7
    • It depends on the game, returner, field position, score, etc.
      50

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EmotionallyUnstable All Pro

EmotionallyUnstable

Posted
Posted

I've been saying this for three years now...

 

I view ST plays as an offensive opportunity for the receiving team. As we all know McD hangs his hat on defense, and rightfully so. We have a very good one by many measures. If this is the case, why allow the opposing team a chance to move the field on your unit against players who are often right off of the practice squad or are playing in a reserve roll? Play to your strengths! 

 

All kickoffs should be through the back of the EZ and punts should be angled out of bounds. Let the defense handle their business and decrease the number of potential big plays our ST units can give up.

 

The risk of giving up field position on a large return severely outweighs the chance at pinning a team 5-10 yards deeper or a potential muffed punt or turn over. If you want to cop out and vote for "it depends" I get it. Thats probably the right choice. But McD needs to wake up, and start playing to his strengths by allowing fewer chances at the big plays on ST, especially when your coverage units are sub-par.

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Mr. WEO Hall of Famer

Mr. WEO

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The punt returns are averaging 7.4 yards--the lowest in decades.  The most prolific punt returners (those with over 10 returns so far this year) all average under 11 YPR. There are more fumbles than TDs on punt returns.

 

And you want punters instead to precisely figure out where the ball will cross the sideline in the air---and aim for that?

 

Ok....

 

Kickoff returns are averaging 22.8 yards.  Assuming most returns start from just in front or behind the goal line, the average punt probably doesn't get to the touchback set at the 25 yard line.  Only 6 guys who have returned over 10 kickoffs are averaging more than 25 YPR.

 

No need to change kicking behavior.

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Augie Hall of Famer

Augie

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As I recall, punting OB used to be more common, but then went out of vogue. The reason given was the rush comes off the edges, so it increases the odds of a block which is of course the WORST case scenario. 

 

As for kickoffs, BOOM it, not worth the chance unless there are special circumstances. 

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JP's Voice Practice Squad

JP's Voice

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13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

The punt returns are averaging 7.4 yards--the lowest in decades.  The most prolific punt returners (those with over 10 returns so far this year) all average under 11 YPR. There are more fumbles than TDs on punt returns.

 

And you want punters instead to precisely figure out where the ball will cross the sideline in the air---and aim for that?

 

Ok....

 

Kickoff returns are averaging 22.8 yards.  Assuming most returns start from just in front or behind the goal line, the average punt probably doesn't get to the touchback set at the 25 yard line.  Only 6 guys who have returned over 10 kickoffs are averaging more than 25 YPR.

 

No need to change kicking behavior.

 

Is this for all of the NFL or just for the Bills? I have a hard time believing that we are only giving up 22.8 yards per kick return.  Given how good our defense has been this year, I would argue that every kickoff should go through the end-zone and we should take our chances at the 25 and make their offense go 75 yards every time.

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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I have a bit of a side issue with this.

 

If Haushka COULD kick through the endzone and is deliberately not doing so as a matter of team strategy, that's one thing.  We witnessed 101 reasons last week why that's a questionable coaching decision if that's what they're doing, but at least it's a decision.

 

If Haushka really doesn't have the leg any longer to kick through the endzone, that's some thing else.  Bring in someone who can. 

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EmotionallyUnstable All Pro

EmotionallyUnstable

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22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

The punt returns are averaging 7.4 yards--the lowest in decades.  The most prolific punt returners (those with over 10 returns so far this year) all average under 11 YPR. There are more fumbles than TDs on punt returns.

 

And you want punters instead to precisely figure out where the ball will cross the sideline in the air---and aim for that?

 

Ok....

 

Kickoff returns are averaging 22.8 yards.  Assuming most returns start from just in front or behind the goal line, the average punt probably doesn't get to the touchback set at the 25 yard line.  Only 6 guys who have returned over 10 kickoffs are averaging more than 25 YPR.

 

No need to change kicking behavior.

 

Regarding the underlined, do you really think that TDs are the only way to measure the impact of the return? How about the 20 yarders, 40 yarders? 

 

As far as kickoffs, if the avergae kick return gets you to the 20, and a touch back is at the 25, is that 5 yards really worth the risk of a larger return?

 

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KellyToTasker RFA

KellyToTasker

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18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I have a bit of a side issue with this.

 

If Haushka COULD kick through the endzone and is deliberately not doing so as a matter of team strategy, that's one thing.  We witnessed 101 reasons last week why that's a questionable coaching decision if that's what they're doing, but at least it's a decision.

 

If Haushka really doesn't have the leg any longer to kick through the endzone, that's some thing else.  Bring in someone who can. 

Just not “two” kickers! I’m not saying you suggested a second kicker. 

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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4 minutes ago, KellyToTasker said:

Just not “two” kickers! I’m not saying you suggested a second kicker. 

 

No.  But other teams, somehow, can change kickers.

 

Or get Haushka a masseuse or put his leg in the hyperbaric chamber or whatever it needs.

 

But if we're not kicking through the endzone because we can't, it's a problem.

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Kiva RFA

Kiva

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Danny Crossman outsmarted, outcoached and outwitted our ST coach. It was an embarrassing outcome. 
 

If Houshka can’t kick the ball far enough, find another kicker. He hasn’t been right since his groin injury last year. 

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EmotionallyUnstable All Pro

EmotionallyUnstable

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12 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I used to really be annoyed by those kick off specialists taking a perfectly good roster spot. 

 

This drove me nuts, too. 

 

Now imagine, we can stop keeping guys like Senorise Perry on the roster since we wouldn't need him on coverage teams. 

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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Just now, Limeaid said:

 

Are you saying third kicker, kickoff specialist, or are you saying cut Haushka shortly after signing him to extension and take a chance on another kicker in market where kickers are kicking far fewer field goals?

 

I'm saying bring in other kickers and at least take a look at what they've got, and make a decision.  Not because Haushka missed a field goal, but IF the reason we're not kicking it through the endzone is because he can't.

 

We have to have a guy who can boot it through the endzone, that's not negotiable.

 

Again, I'm not saying that's where Haushka is - might have been a strategic decision for that game.  But IF that's where he is.

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Punching Bag Hall of Famer

Punching Bag

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Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm saying bring in other kickers and at least take a look at what they've got, and make a decision.  Not because Haushka missed a field goal, but IF the reason we're not kicking it through the endzone is because he can't.

 

We have to have a guy who can boot it through the endzone, that's not negotiable.

 

Again, I'm not saying that's where Haushka is - might have been a strategic decision for that game.  But IF that's where he is.

 

I already deleted by post for I saw later you answered question but you are too fast. 

 

Find a punter who can kick thru endzone, too difficult to find a good field goal kicker especially in Buffalo.

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Mr. WEO Hall of Famer

Mr. WEO

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1 hour ago, JP's Voice said:

 

Is this for all of the NFL or just for the Bills? I have a hard time believing that we are only giving up 22.8 yards per kick return.  Given how good our defense has been this year, I would argue that every kickoff should go through the end-zone and we should take our chances at the 25 and make their offense go 75 yards every time.

 

 

League averages.  The numbers argue against what OP is  suggesting.  

 

 

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Mr. WEO Hall of Famer

Mr. WEO

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1 hour ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

 

Regarding the underlined, do you really think that TDs are the only way to measure the impact of the return? How about the 20 yarders, 40 yarders? 

 

As far as kickoffs, if the avergae kick return gets you to the 20, and a touch back is at the 25, is that 5 yards really worth the risk of a larger return?

 

 

There are too few to be worried about.

 

You are suggesting that punters, who struggle to accurately drop fairly short punts inside the 10, will now be able to determine exactly where to punt the ball across the sideline.  That's kind of nuts.

 

As for kickoffs, I would think nearly every single one is meant to reach the end zone for a touchback unless there is a specific advantage for a particular kick to be short and a return encouraged, so no change needed there.   In fact, Football Outsiders reviewed the results of every kickoff last year and concluded the returns should not even be attempted as the results vs a touch back are abysmal.  

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billsbackto81 Veteran

billsbackto81

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Just kick it through the EZ!! Even the most prolific returners won't bring it out if its at least 3 yards deep. Even when its done right kicking short on a return might yield you a 5-7 yard advantage with an opponents starting point at the 18-20 yard line. Not worth it in my opinion. 

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Utah John Veteran

Utah John

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With the new rules on kickoffs, it's getting harder for return teams to be effective.  Almost always, a high kickoff that reaches the 1 or 2 yard line and has to be returned gets the returner tackled at the 20, or before.  There are exceptions when coverage units break down, as ours did in Miami, but that doesn't happen often.  What happens more often is that the receiving team gets bad field position, at the 18 instead of the 25. Go ask NFL coaches whether they want that or not. 

 

As for punts, when a punter can pin the other team back within the 5, or even closer, it usually leads to points for the punting team.  Aside from the occasional safety, the receiving team struggles to get a first down, and when it punts as it usually has to do, the original punting team gets the ball inside the other team's territory.  Punting can be an offensive weapon when your team is anywhere beyond your own 40.  

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MrSarcasm RFA

MrSarcasm

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12 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I used to really be annoyed by those kick off specialists taking a perfectly good roster spot. 

...but when this team has 2 spots toward a FB and a TE who specializes in getting penalties it's a different story.

 

?

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Bleeding Bills Blue All Pro

Bleeding Bills Blue

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14 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I've been saying this for three years now...

 

I view ST plays as an offensive opportunity for the receiving team. As we all know McD hangs his hat on defense, and rightfully so. We have a very good one by many measures. If this is the case, why allow the opposing team a chance to move the field on your unit against players who are often right off of the practice squad or are playing in a reserve roll? Play to your strengths! 

 

All kickoffs should be through the back of the EZ and punts should be angled out of bounds. Let the defense handle their business and decrease the number of potential big plays our ST units can give up.

 

The risk of giving up field position on a large return severely outweighs the chance at pinning a team 5-10 yards deeper or a potential muffed punt or turn over. If you want to cop out and vote for "it depends" I get it. Thats probably the right choice. But McD needs to wake up, and start playing to his strengths by allowing fewer chances at the big plays on ST, especially when your coverage units are sub-par.

 

It's kind of windy in buffalo - no kicker is just blasting them out of the end zone every try.  Angling punts is the same thing - u also run the risk of shanking.  Punting high is often enough.

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Ridgewaycynic2013 Hall of Famer

Ridgewaycynic2013

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40 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Which was scarier?

 

The way leodis fielded punts or the way McCoy carried the ball?

I once posted the comment that an autograph session with Mr. McKelvin had to be cancelled due to his repeated dropping of the Sharpie.  L.McK definitely scarier in my book.

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row_33 Hall of Famer

row_33

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16 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Whatever Belichick does is probably the correct answer

 

not really, nobody seems to want to copy the obvious things that have led to 20 or so years of dominance.....

 

 

with a minimal effort at obtaining top talent at the skill positions for Brady

 

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