Bills at Browns Post Game Post Mortem

[BuffaloBaumer]

It would be one thing if they lost because of turnovers and bad calls, but the bottom line is that they just aren't very good. It is better to have all the weaknesses exposed, and that includes the quarterback play. I have no doubt in my mind that by the end of this season, they will have to find not only new linebackers, but a new quarterback and top receiver as well.

 

I honestly think they are lucky to have 6 wins at this point and I cannot wait until the Miami and Denver games are over. I want to see how far behind they really are and if that involves getting crushed by the better teams and losing the head coach, so be it.

 

I keep hoping Allen is going to snap out of it but sadly, i just don't think it is going to happen. Fans are so accustomed to terrible quarterback play and eeking by with sub 200-yard games, that they get excited when Allen completes three or four nice passes a game. The bar is so low, and it is absolutely pathetic on how blame is passed on to others during these games. 

 

An accurate qb with a mediocre arm gets this team to 11 wins without hesitation. I would honestly take any of the backup qbs that have stepped in this year and not missed a beat. 

[gobills1212]

Things bounced our way a few times this year and we were the benefactors of it with a win. When you play to score 1 more point than the other team, there isnt much room for error. It didnt shake out our way today and thats the long and short of it. It stings, but it is what it is.

[CincyBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

Fair enough...That would certainly explain it...

 

But it still does not excuse the fact that we don't have the personnel to do exactly what we were told Daboll was going to do...IE work the gameplan on match-ups...Especially when finding good RB's is about as easy a position to fill as there is in the NFL...

 

But whatever...I'm getting more angry just thinking about it...Let's have our still very young inexperienced QB go out an fling it 40 times on the road against one of the worst Run Defenses in the NFL...

 

All that being said if Josh hits one...ONE deep pass we are probably not having this conversation...

 

Ugh...?

 

I'm becoming more convinced by the game that the Bills brain trust was hoping to win AT MOST 8 games this year based on where they thought we were in the rebuild.

 

Then we unexpectedly get off to a 3 - 0, 5 - 1 & 6 - 2 start and surge to the front of the pack in the wildcard.  Of course this is due to a perfect storm of AFC teams imploding, the Bills having an easy schedule and the teams playing a scrappy brand of football.  But if you look how the Bill's offense was structured this year this season was all about getting Allen reps and improving his game. 

 

If the Bills truly thought they had a chance to go 10 - 6 and make the playoffs do you think they cut Shady at the end of the preseason and go into the season with those TE's and that backfield?  

 

From a big picture standpoint NEXT season was the one the Bills were aiming for to move away from the rebuild and jump into contending for the Division title & beyond. 

 

 

 

 

[Best Player Available]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I'm becoming more convinced by the game that the Bills brain trust was hoping to win AT MOST 8 games this year based on where they thought we were in the rebuild.

 

Then we unexpectedly get off to a 3 - 0, 5 - 1 & 6 - 2 start and surge to the front of the pack in the wildcard.  Of course this is due to a perfect storm of AFC teams imploding, the Bills having an easy schedule and the teams playing a scrappy brand of football.  But if you look how the Bill's offense was structured this year this season was all about getting Allen reps and improving his game. 

 

If the Bills truly thought they had a chance to go 10 - 6 and make the playoffs do you think they cut Shady at the end of the preseason and go into the season with those TE's and that backfield?  

 

From a big picture standpoint NEXT season was the one the Bills were aiming for to move away from the rebuild and jump into contending for the Division title & beyond. 

 

 

 

 

not happening like you claim..

 

[Virgil]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

It would be one thing if they lost because of turnovers and bad calls, but the bottom line is that they just aren't very good. It is better to have all the weaknesses exposed, and that includes the quarterback play. I have no doubt in my mind that by the end of this season, they will have to find not only new linebackers, but a new quarterback and top receiver as well.

No doubt?  I’ll take that bet?  
 

Loser deletes their account?

[london_bills]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

It would be one thing if they lost because of turnovers and bad calls, but the bottom line is that they just aren't very good. It is better to have all the weaknesses exposed, and that includes the quarterback play. I have no doubt in my mind that by the end of this season, they will have to find not only new linebackers, but a new quarterback and top receiver as well.

 

I honestly think they are lucky to have 6 wins at this point and I cannot wait until the Miami and Denver games are over. I want to see how far behind they really are and if that involves getting crushed by the better teams and losing the head coach, so be it.

 

I keep hoping Allen is going to snap out of it but sadly, i just don't think it is going to happen. Fans are so accustomed to terrible quarterback play and eeking by with sub 200-yard games, that they get excited when Allen completes three or four nice passes a game. The bar is so low, and it is absolutely pathetic on how blame is passed on to others during these games. 

 

An accurate qb with a mediocre arm gets this team to 11 wins without hesitation. I would honestly take any of the backup qbs that have stepped in this year and not missed a beat. 

Good Post. Orton may well have got this team to more wins. As much as I'm not sure about McDermott I think he needs some credit for a 6-3 record. I agree that being exposed can be a good thing to an extent but it is a difficult thing to comprehend a total rebuild again. It's hard to see the bills getting better this season, at the moment anyway. You mention a new QB. Can this regime survive a QB change? I think its understandable that a project QB may not work out but will Beane and mcd be judged on Allen. And can mcdermott fire another OC, probably not. 

[CincyBillsFan]

13 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

So Wayne.

 

I hear your complaints, what solutions do you propose?

 

 

 

I guess it would be to bench Allen and see if Barkley can do it.  Then in the off season trade Allen for a 2nd round pick and go all out to sign Teddy Bridgwater or maybe work a deal with Jacksonville for Gardnew Minshew.  I mean he's had a couple of 300 yard games so he's much better then Allen.

 

Of course any of these moves would be insane but that's the type of thinking 20 years of NFL purgatory gets you.  And I get it.  We're seeing a football version of post traumatic stress syndrome. 

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Best Player Available said:

not happening like you claim..

 

 

Then how is it happening? 

[iinii]

8 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I'm becoming more convinced by the game that the Bills brain trust was hoping to win AT MOST 8 games this year based on where they thought we were in the rebuild.

 

Then we unexpectedly get off to a 3 - 0, 5 - 1 & 6 - 2 start and surge to the front of the pack in the wildcard.  Of course this is due to a perfect storm of AFC teams imploding, the Bills having an easy schedule and the teams playing a scrappy brand of football.  But if you look how the Bill's offense was structured this year this season was all about getting Allen reps and improving his game. 

 

If the Bills truly thought they had a chance to go 10 - 6 and make the playoffs do you think they cut Shady at the end of the preseason and go into the season with those TE's and that backfield?  

 

From a big picture standpoint NEXT season was the one the Bills were aiming for to move away from the rebuild and jump into contending for the Division title & beyond. 

 

 

 

 

I would think McD and Beane hoped to win 19 games. And handicapping Allen with inferior pieces around him as you say, which I don’t disagree with, isn’t a great plan for development. 

[london_bills]

3 minutes ago, iinii said:

I would think McD and Beane hoped to win 19 games. And handicapping Allen with inferior pieces around him as you say, which I don’t disagree with, isn’t a great plan for development. 

There's this whole development vs winning games thing. Why not let Allen throw to win the game for development? Mcdermott played safe to tie the game. Can't say he's wrong but there is a conflict. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by london_bills

[Best Player Available]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I guess it would be to bench Allen and see if Barkley can do it.  Then in the off season trade Allen for a 2nd round pick and go all out to sign Teddy Bridgwater or maybe work a deal with Jacksonville for Gardnew Minshew.  I mean he's had a couple of 300 yard games so he's much better then Allen.

 

Of course any of these moves would be insane but that's the type of thinking 20 years of NFL purgatory gets you.  And I get it.  We're seeing a football version of post traumatic stress syndrome. 

 

 

 

 

 

Then how is it happening? 

There "hoping" to win 8 games, but what panicking because do too a easy schedule? they can suddenly win more? 

You play too win the game. Who would sign off on such a  plan? Pegula? I guess he could be naive enpugh to 

agree to a 8 win target season. . What mangament team thinks like this three years into the head coaches tenure? 

Just now, Best Player Available said:

There "hoping" to win 8 games, but what panicking because do too a easy schedule? they can suddenly win more? 

You play too win the game. Who would sign off on such a  plan? Pegula? I guess he could be naive enough to

agree to a 8 win target season. . What mangament team thinks like this three years into the head coaches tenure? 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, iinii said:

I would think McD and Beane hoped to win 19 games. And handicapping Allen with inferior pieces around him as you say, which I don’t disagree with, isn’t a great plan for development. 

 

Well that's one way to look at it.  But you're right in that I needed to use more precise wording here - instead of "hoped", which is how you feel when you buy a Power Ball ticket,  they "expected" and prepared for a much more modest outcome.

 

But the bottom line is that until we upgrade the talent around Allen it's hard to see just how high his upside is. 

[TheFunPolice]

31 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

This is where the circumstances of the game come into play.  Say the Bills didn't have that goal line stand in the 1st half and the Browns score a TD.  Then late in the game Cleveland ices things with that last TD to go up 26 - 16.  Now on that last drive Allen, throwing against a prevent D, drives us down for a TD with 18 seconds left, getting that last 35 yards.  Bingo he just got his first 300 yard game!  And we lose 26 - 23. 

 

Since Allen has come back from his injury last year we just haven't had to many of those types of games.  Our games are usually close affairs. 

 

Circumstances matter, that is true

 

It's just odd that the Bills never seem to get 300 yards, regardless of QB

 

They struggle to move the ball every year...

 

 

[WideNine]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I guess it would be to bench Allen and see if Barkley can do it.  Then in the off season trade Allen for a 2nd round pick and go all out to sign Teddy Bridgwater or maybe work a deal with Jacksonville for Gardnew Minshew.  I mean he's had a couple of 300 yard games so he's much better then Allen.

 

Of course any of these moves would be insane but that's the type of thinking 20 years of NFL purgatory gets you.  And I get it.  We're seeing a football version of post traumatic stress syndrome. 

 

 

 

 

 

I genuinely asked because I don't think a lot of those bitching and whining really have any realistic plans or steps the Bills could take to improve as a team.

 

This guy sucks, or that guy sucks is about as far as they can go before they get really creative and say your a fanboy because you are trying to analyze the play of the players we have and the plays called by our coaches and figure out if there are ways those could be better. Of course Allen should play better, and so should our defense, and so should Hausch. There are a lot of things that need fixing when I look at the game they played today.

 

It is that "fire them all" kind of mentality that really does not have anything substantive to add in regards to improving player performance or the team overall.

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, Best Player Available said:

There "hoping" to win 8 games, but what panicking because do too a easy schedule? they can suddenly win more? 

You play too win the game. Who would sign off on such a  plan? Pegula? I guess he could be naive enpugh to 

agree to a 8 win target season. . What mangament team thinks like this three years into the head coaches tenure? 

 

 

You can BOTH play to win a game AND still not expect to have a winning season based on the point in a rebuild you're at.

 

The Dolphins are clearly at the start of a rebuild but at the same time they've been playing to win.  If Miami had started out 3 - 3 they would have been sort of happy & in shock.  More importantly they would have realized that they were NOT positioned to make a serious run for the playoffs down the line because they gave away all their players.  It really is a dilemma for teams when they exceed their own internal expectations during a rebuild.

 

I'm actually glad the Bills didn't go out and overpay for players that might have helped them this year to make the playoffs.  I would rather miss the playoffs this year if it puts us in a better position to make multiple playoff runs over the next 5 years.

 

 

[DJB]

This board is absolutely  insufferable  after a loss. 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

First off this obsession with 300 yard passing games is nuts IMO.  QB's not getting anywhere close to 300 yards won 9 games today.  While QB's throwing for over 300 yards lost 4 games.  Only 1 of the QB's who threw for over 300 yards won their game. 

 

 

 

And after Minnesota's 28 - 24 victory over Dallas we can add another QB who threw for well under 300 yards winning a game against a QB who just missed hitting 400 yards!

 

That brings the total today to 10 games won by QB's who did not hit 300 yards passing with only 1 of the QB's who passed 300 yards winning their game.

 

 

[Agent 91]

Just now, Gary Busey said:

 

Run defense stuffed them countless times inside the 5 - they were above average at least today

You my friend are right. As ugly as all of it was.... that defense gave up 19 points. They stiffened up at the goal line and I would love to see tremaine as our shiny new olb next year

6 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

Allen fired some balls in there today but misses the long ball- still very raw

For every 1 or 2 good plays Edmunds makes theres 4 or 5 where he is getting pushed aside, out of position, not shedding a block or getting run over. For the love of God put this man on the outside!

Love love LOVE your second point

[london_bills]

15 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I genuinely asked because I don't think a lot of those bitching and whining really have any realistic plans or steps the Bills could take to improve as a team.

 

This guy sucks, or that guy sucks is about as far as they can go before they get really creative and say your a fanboy because you are trying to analyze the play of the players we have and the plays called by our coaches and figure out if there are ways those could be better. Of course Allen should play better, and so should our defense, and so should Hausch. There are a lot of things that need fixing when I look at the game they played today.

 

It is that "fire them all" kind of mentality that really does not have anything substantive to add in regards to improving player performance or the team overall.

 

 

 

The very best thing the bills can do is follow their plan but draft a QB high again. 

[Bills!Win!]

6 minutes ago, DJB said:

This board is absolutely  insufferable  after a loss. 

 

This is like the 3rd comment like this I’ve seen today lol

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, Bills!Win! said:

 

This is like the 3rd comment like this I’ve seen today lol

 

Yet here we are...dancing around the flames.

[Franco_92]

2 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

 

This is like the 3rd comment like this I’ve seen today lol

And it's honestly more annoying reading those comments than the "insufferable" posts they refer to

[iinii]

26 minutes ago, london_bills said:

There's this whole development vs winning games thing. Why not let Allen throw to win the game for development? Mcdermott played safe to tie the game. Can't say he's wrong but there is a conflict. 

Development and winning are not mutually inclusive or exclusive.

[Dablitzkrieg]

I'm just concerned that the kick was short AND off Target.   He has no range anymore

[WideNine]

2 minutes ago, london_bills said:

The very best thing the bills can do is follow their plan but draft a QB high again. 

 

OK - that solves their problems how? I really mean this to be thought-provoking so let's look at all the other high QB draft picks from 2018.

 

You realize that Mayfield, though they won today, is 3-6 this year and his longest pass was 24 yards today and he leads the league in interceptions while having the luxury of an embarrassment of riches in regards to receiving weapons. He threw two or three into the hands of our defenders that were dropped today.

 

Darnold has PTSD after playing NE

Rosen has been bounced around.

LJax was not taken very high and is doing the most out of the group with his opportunities.

 

 

The biggest difference with most all of these QBs is how effective their coaches are surrounding them with talent, preparing game plans, calling good games with the right adjustments, and teaching their QB how to leverage their talents.

 

 

 

[london_bills]

9 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

OK - that solves their problems how? I really mean this to be thought-provoking so let's look at all the other high QB draft picks from 2018.

 

You realize that Mayfield, though they won today, is 3-6 this year and his longest pass was 24 yards today and he leads the league in interceptions while having the luxury of an embarrassment of riches in regards to receiving weapons. He threw two or three into the hands of our defenders that were dropped today.

 

Darnold has PTSD after playing NE

Rosen has been bounced around.

LJax was not taken very high and is doing the most out of the group with his opportunities.

 

 

The biggest difference with most all of these QBs is how effective their coaches are surrounding them with talent, preparing game plans, calling good games with the right adjustments, and teaching their QB how to leverage their talents.

 

 

 

Decide sooner rather than later whether Allen has it or not. Otherwise they go down with Allen if he's not good enough. 

[BananaB]

5 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Decide sooner rather than later whether Allen has it or not. Otherwise they go down with Allen if he's not good enough. 

He has started 18 games so far. ?

[london_bills]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

He has started 18 games so far. ?

Beane will not be sharing your outlook. 

[LABILLBACKER]

39 minutes ago, arcane said:

And it's honestly more annoying reading those comments than the "insufferable" posts they refer to

Following this team is insufferable....

[Urdad]

22 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

OK - that solves their problems how? I really mean this to be thought-provoking so let's look at all the other high QB draft picks from 2018.

 

You realize that Mayfield, though they won today, is 3-6 this year and his longest pass was 24 yards today and he leads the league in interceptions while having the luxury of an embarrassment of riches in regards to receiving weapons. He threw two or three into the hands of our defenders that were dropped today.

 

Darnold has PTSD after playing NE

Rosen has been bounced around.

LJax was not taken very high and is doing the most out of the group with his opportunities.

 

 

The biggest difference with most all of these QBs is how effective their coaches are surrounding them with talent, preparing game plans, calling good games with the right adjustments, and teaching their QB how to leverage their talents.

 

 

Mayfield and Jackson are head and shoulders above the rest because they're better QBs. If you put Allen on the Ravens they're not beating the Pats by 17 and if you put him on the Browns he's not throwing 27 TDs and setting the rookie TD record in 13.5 games. And that was without OBJ

[BananaB]

1 minute ago, london_bills said:

Beane will not be sharing your outlook. 

We’ll see. They traded a lot to get him. They  also cut, released or traded pretty much everybody that surrounded him in his rookie season, so they probably won’t put to much emphasis on his rookie season when they evaluate him at the end of the year. As far as this year goes, we’re winning games, he’s slowly making strides and he plays his best when the game is in the line. Hate to burst your bubble, but next year will be Allen’s defining year.  That’s a ways away. 

[london_bills]

Winning hides everything. If we start to lose then Beane mcdermott and Daboll will be asking questions. Jobs naturally become more on the line.

 

In terms of your assessment of Allen, I've seen some of that but I don't personally believe he is good enough and I don't think more experience is going to do it at this point. It's fine, we can have a different opinion on Allen.

 

I think after 8 more games another assessment will be made. 26 games is a fair amount to make an informed decision on whether an insurance policy is needed. If I was beane/mcdermott and I wasn't convinced then I would be drafting a QB somewhere to come in to join Allen. 

[MJS]

We lost. It's too bad. On to next week. I'll be watching that game as well.

[Chandler#81]

9 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I said all week I thought if we lose today we are done. It wasn’t just a split second thing. There are a lot of losses left on the schedule. 10 wins isn’t happening now and 9 probably won’t be enough. Today was huge. It’s not going to just be alright after this

Please tell us we won’t be hearing from you again til next year. If so, the loss was worth it.

[Chandler#81]

9 hours ago, RunninRebel37 said:

Josh Allen isn't good enough to win when the defensive isn't lights out. 3/8 into the second quarter isn't good enough. it just wasn't good enough from the offensive and play calling but Josh Allen hasn't once beaten a team thats noteworthy. 

So incredibly lame. Congrats!

9 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Allen missed multiple deep passes, very inaccurate throughout the game, fumbled again, and still can't hit a Wr consistently in stride. 

 

There is no excuse for him.   Wrs were wide open all day, he had tons of time in the pocket the majority of the day and he failed to produce. 

 

If we are really looking to make the playoffs and actually win a game, its time to put Barkley in there. 

 

I doubt this will happen because they want to "develop" Allen,  but its clear he's not improving.  

 

There is no reason he shouldn't be light-years ahead of last year.   We've brought in RBs,  Wrs, TEs, and offensive linemen to build around him.   He has not shown anything to show improvement.  

 

Wins me NOTHING at this point as our wins have come against the worst teams in the league by way of last ditch efforts. 

 

Im completely disgusted over his performance today against a 2-6 team with the 21st ranked pass defense.  

 

Enough of the excuses.  Qb position is a SERIOUS concern. 

Bye now. It’s been real and it’s been fun. But it hasn’t been real fun

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, london_bills said:

Good Post. Orton may well have got this team to more wins. As much as I'm not sure about McDermott I think he needs some credit for a 6-3 record. I agree that being exposed can be a good thing to an extent but it is a difficult thing to comprehend a total rebuild again. It's hard to see the bills getting better this season, at the moment anyway. You mention a new QB. Can this regime survive a QB change? I think its understandable that a project QB may not work out but will Beane and mcd be judged on Allen. And can mcdermott fire another OC, probably not. 

 

As to first bolded,  I think it may be time to bring a plan B QB into the fold.  They could absolutely survive it if the next guy (if needed) can win.  Winning is the best deoderant. 

 

As for the second, I'm thinking if our O doesn't improve a lot over the rest of the season, he may have to to keep his job.

Edited November 11, 2019 by reddogblitz

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I'm just concerned that the kick was short AND off Target.   He has no range anymore

they had enough time for at least 3 more plays 

[Chandler#81]

9 hours ago, CSBill said:

 

if you're that frustrated, go find another hobby, or another team.

He’s been ‘encouraged’ to..

[WideNine]

 

9 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Winning hides everything. If we start to lose then Beane mcdermott and Daboll will be asking questions. Jobs naturally become more on the line.

 

In terms of your assessment of Allen, I've seen some of that but I don't personally believe he is good enough and I don't think more experience is going to do it at this point. It's fine, we can have a different opinion on Allen.

 

I think after 8 more games another assessment will be made. 26 games is a fair amount to make an informed decision on whether an insurance policy is needed. If I was beane/mcdermott and I wasn't convinced then I would be drafting a QB somewhere to come in to join Allen. 

I think you are more likely to see a switch at OC before that happens if Daboll keeps shooting himself in the foot.

 

But you are right in that you should see steady progress after 26 games with an expectation that there will be few bad games sprinkled in the mix.

 

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

But the bottom line is that until we upgrade the talent around Allen it's hard to see just how high his upside is. 

 

what's taking them so long? This should have started in 2018 if you're going to heavily invest in and roll with a rookie QB.

[Chandler#81]

9 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

You're such an 

DON’T say it! He’s been kicked to the curb. No need for you to follow him.