Bills at Browns Post Game Post Mortem

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

It's not just losing, it's how terrible they look when they lose....and how awful the offense is when they win too. At this point, every team in the nfl knows how to stop Allen...make him play qb

I got to disagree with this. Plus, what is ‘playing QB’ mean? I think Josh knows when people don’t believe in him. He has experienced that a lot in college and then the draft. Now his coach won’t let him win a game. Shame on McDermott for today’s loss. It really does fall on him and not just because he is the HC but because he won’t trust his QB. HC have to at some point show they believe in their QB to win them the game. McDermott’s fears are costing him and us. 

[Agent 91]

3 hours ago, BillnutinHouston said:

You think right tackle was the problem?  Interesting. Myles Garrett was beating Dawkins, our LT, regularly.

DAWKINS IS GONNA GET BEAT BY EVERY RE WORTH SALT!!! That's a farce too

 

RT was only a huge issue with Ford in there

Edited November 11, 2019 by Agent 91

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

It's not just losing, it's how terrible they look when they lose....and how awful the offense is when they win too. At this point, every team in the nfl knows how to stop Allen...make him play qb

I want you to be objective now.  Does Allen have work to do?  Sure.  Still developing his reads for example.  But did you see the throws he made today?  Today showed the stuff about accuracy is ridiculous, except the long ball which he needs to hit.  He was hitting throws routinely in the intermediate space.  Missed  a couple and had some drops.

 

He takes advantage of a shorter field and gets them in for the go ahead score in the fourth.  Gets them back into 

position for a tying FG with About a minute and a half.  The wasted time was dumb if that was on him or dumb if on the coaches.

 

Cleveland as you put it made him play QB.  And he did OK doing so.  

 

 

5 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

I think pointing at 6-3 as asinine justification is the willful ignorance part of the equation. The Bills can't beat good teams, not just this season, but all seasons McDermott has been HC. That's about as big a red flag as a coach could have.

See, here’s the thing.  Making declarative statements like this are misguided at best.  Say they beat the Boys in Thanksgiving.  You realize you’ll look silly right?

[WideNine]

That presser from Allen is as down as I have seen him.

 

He needs to play better and he knows it. In a way I expected more of these soul-searching kind of games and you always want to see how a player responds the next week.

 

McD was called out for how long it takes his run D to tighten up and he is true to form and said that he needs to get better.

 

Overall, I am pretty sure that McDermott's main issue was the one he reiterated a few times early in the presser and that is that the Bills have got to start scoring more than 16 points a game, I would expect to see some changes this week in the personnel or play calling on the offensive side of the ball. I think McD gives his coordinators room to fix their own issues, but if they can't get it done I will expect more collective input into the offensive game-planning.

 

McDermott definitely looked a bit angry about the 3rd and manageable play calls. 

[Seven-N-Nine]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I want you to be objective now.  Does Allen have work to do?  Sure.  Still developing his reads for example.  But did you see the throws he made today?  Today showed the stuff about accuracy is ridiculous, except the long ball which he needs to hit.  He was hitting throws routinely in the intermediate space.  Missed  a couple and had some drops.

 

He takes advantage of a shorter field and gets them in for the go ahead score in the fourth.  Gets them back into 

position for a tying FG with About a minute and a half.  The wasted time was dumb if that was on him or dumb if on the coaches.

 

Cleveland as you put it made him play QB.  And he did OK doing so.  

 

 

See, here’s the thing.  Making declarative statements like this are misguided at best.  Say they beat the Boys in Thanksgiving.  You realize you’ll look silly right?

So that would give McDermott 3 wins against good teams in 3 seasons? Oh goodness, I will be so embarrassed if that happens...

[Agent 91]

3 hours ago, PolishPrince said:

Allen sleepwalk? First 5 passes of game he went 1-4. 2 bad drops and a third that was a bad throw by Allen (behind Brown) but catchable. But yeah it’s on him... not Knox for have a two hands on ball on sideline on 3rd down and just dropping it - definitely allen’s Fault

Allen fan I see. Not excusing that but... is that why we are going with? Since NE he has not looked confident. To bring up Knox and Brown? The 2 guys who he worked with all game? I got you. What did he have on that last prevent drive? He looked really assertive when the browns cared about nothing but keeping us out of the end zone. The rest of the game... luke warm at best

[TwistofFate]

12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

One game of 300 yards would not show growth.  Roberts holds onto the one pass today Allen throws for 300.  Would that have changed your posts?  No.  And if he did then it would be well, it’s only one game, he has to do it consistently.  You really think folks here haven’t figured out your act?

 

You want the team to lose.  You try and hide it with this growth stuff, but you have said you’re OK with them losing.  Own it.

Again, are you this asinine?  Allen didn't throw for 300, he wasn't close to 300 yards, and barely completed 50% of his passes.  There is NO growth, period.  You're dealing in the hypothetical to prop up your straw man fallacy.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Seven-N-Nine said:

So that would give McDermott 3 wins against good teams in 3 seasons? Oh goodness, I will be so embarrassed if that happens...

So you realize your statement that they can’t beat good teams is false?  That’s nice.

[Seven-N-Nine]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

So you realize your statement that they can’t beat good teams is false?  That’s nice.

Huh? Are you missing the point on purpose?

[CommonCents]

Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. 

 

This team wasn’t ready to win on the road when everyone knew they would get another “best punch” type of effort. Same as the Philly game. People wanted to argue all week about how the schedule didn’t matter yada yada. A few weeks ago it was but look at the point differential. All while ignoring the obvious, they aren’t ready yet.

 

Shouldn’t we all have expected this? Shouldn’t we be happy that the team is 6-3 with an almost entirely new starting O? Didn’t we all agree that the team would end the season stronger than they would start it?

 

All is lost now because they aren’t ready for the big time yet? Come on. They have a few weeks to grind out some more wins. Sometime in the next month we need to see major steps forward. Hopefully it clicks. For Allen, Dabol, the Oline and the WR. It isn’t there yet.

 

The only thing I’m actually concerned about is Allen’s deep accuracy. As soon as he launches you can tell it’s going way too far. 

 

Loosen your belts, eat another piece of pie, drink another beverage. All is not lost. 

[Agent 91]

3 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

And your D handed them the score and the lead leaving a minute and change on the clock - they share the blame on this one whether you want to look there or not.

Never said the d was good. But we allowed 19 points.. why's itso hard to accept. Scoring points makes things like that late td disappear. We were watching a 9 to 9 slobber knocker in the 4th quarter. Why is that acceptable. You wanna beat Wallace go ahead... but that does nothing for the bs we watched offensively

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, TwistofFate said:

Again, are you this asinine?  Allen didn't throw for 300, he wasn't close to 300 yards, and barely completed 50% of his passes.  There is NO growth, period.  You're dealing in the hypothetical to prop up your straw man fallacy.

266.  Roberts catches that one ball he’s there.  Which is what I said.

 

Percentage?  How many drops today?  And yes he missed a few.  Threw a few away.  Two drives in the fourth, one to go ahead, one to get them a tie. But no growth.  Right.

 

You talk of fantasy.  I prefer reality.  Reality is that you have said you’d like to see the team lose.

[jkirchofer]

I could honestly see us losing out the rest of the season and finishing 6-10. This coaching staff is not capable of putting together a winning NFL offense. This defense is good enough to keep it close, but not good enough to win on its own. I feel like Josh Allen could be putting up Lamar Jackson type numbers with different coaches. If the team does not make the playoffs, I would hope that we see a coaching change. 

[John in Jax]

Don't know if this has been posted in this thread or not, but I guess the Vegas oddsmakers really do know their stuff! LOL

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

Huh? Are you missing the point on purpose?

I deal with the statements you make.  You said they can’t beat a good team under McD, then said they have done so three times.

 

Why do you have trouble owning your own statements?

Edited November 11, 2019 by oldmanfan

[HalftimeAdjustment]

So, the Bills and Browns should be close in this week's power rankings, right? It looks like they might be roughly evenly matched if they played on a neutral field.

[Seven-N-Nine]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I dal with the statements you make.  You said they can’t beat a good team under McD, then said they have done so three times.

 

Why do you have trouble owning your own statements?

Look at you being Mr Absolute. Are you happy with McDermott's piss poor record against good teams? This really the hill you're going to die on? Really?

[london_bills]

10 minutes ago, WideNine said:

That presser from Allen is as down as I have seen him.

 

He needs to play better and he knows it. In a way I expected more of these soul-searching kind of games and you always want to see how a player responds the next week.

 

McD was called out for how long it takes his run D to tighten up and he is true to form and said that he needs to get better.

 

Overall, I am pretty sure that McDermott's main issue was the one he reiterated a few times early in the presser and that is that the Bills have got to start scoring more than 16 points a game, I would expect to see some changes this week in the personnel or play calling on the offensive side of the ball. I think McD gives his coordinators room to fix their own issues, but if they can't get it done I will expect more collective input into the offensive game-planning.

 

McDermott definitely looked a bit angry about the 3rd and manageable play calls. 

I watched the pressers. Allen was great, such a cool humble guy but I don't correlate the 'needing to be better, putting the game on him' with him able to be better. Mcdermott did look angry about the long shots on 3rd down I thought. Why wasn't he called out for being meek on the last drive? Why didn't they go no huddle today at any point? 

[Seven-N-Nine]

19 minutes ago, london_bills said:

I dont get the impression we are getting better as the season goes on though. 

That's because their record is a mirage, they are playing pretty much the same.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Seven-N-Nine said:

Look at you being Mr Absolute. Are you happy with McDermott's piss poor record against good teams? This really the hill you're going to die on? Really?

Did you say they can’t beat a winning team?  Yes.

 

Did you then say they’ve done so 3 times under his tenure?  Yes.

 

Which statement is true and which is BS?  Or are both BS?

 

For me, they have things to work on.  But in the NFL wins are wins.

[Teddy KGB]

1 minute ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

That's because their record is a mirage, they are playing pretty much the same.

 

It’s not a mirage.     It’s real, bleacher report and nfl.com both show it 

 

Get yourself a snickers bar.   Maybe get one for twist as well.   

[Seven-N-Nine]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Did you say they can’t beat a winning team?  Yes.

 

Did you then say they’ve done so 3 times under his tenure?  Yes.

 

Which statement is true and which is BS?  Or are both BS?

 

For me, they have things to work on.  But in the NFL wins are wins.

Do you not understand how to discuss football? The vast majority of the time McDermott has faced a "good team", he has lost. Do you nitpick this much when discussing football in public?

[DisplacedBillsFan]

We're 6-3. Did anyone expect 16-0. We'll lose one or two we shouldn't but we'll also win one or two we shouldn't. 

 

I fully expect to be watching an 8-3 team play Dallas on Thanksgiving Day while I eat most of a pumpkin pie with two cans of extra creamy whipped cream. Sign me up for that every year.

[Halasjonny]

McDermott is a great coach.

Josh Allen had a good game. 

Defense is great at pass defense but is physically soft! 
Mafia = whole lotta idiots

 

[Chill]

Does Sean survive his 3rd O Coordinator??

[RiotAct]

15 minutes ago, jkirchofer said:

I could honestly see us losing out the rest of the season and finishing 6-10. This coaching staff is not capable of putting together a winning NFL offense. This defense is good enough to keep it close, but not good enough to win on its own. I feel like Josh Allen could be putting up Lamar Jackson type numbers with different coaches. If the team does not make the playoffs, I would hope that we see a coaching change. 

losing out would be the only scenario where I could actually see McDermott getting fired at the end of the season.  It ain’t happening, though.

[CincyBillsFan]

44 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

300 yards, multiple TDs, and a loss that shows GROWTH.  Apparently, reading comprehension is not your strong point. 

 

I cry about barely breaking 50% completion against a terrible defense.

 

"The ceiling for this team is limited as long as Josh Allen is the starting quarterback. While he's effective with his feet, his passing should probably make Bills fans wistful for the halcyon days of Tyrod Taylor under center. 

Allen consistently misses open targets, tries to use his arm to fit the ball into impossible windows and nearly cost the Bills the game with a fumble deep inside the red zone in the fourth quarter. Only Jon Feliciano's quick hands saved Allen from a potentially game-losing turnover.

John Brown and Cole Beasley are a solid (albeit unspectacular) one-two punch at the receiver spot, and Devin Singletary has helped give life to the running game."

 

Tyler Conway, Bleacher Report.

 

First off this obsession with 300 yard passing games is nuts IMO.  QB's not getting anywhere close to 300 yards won 9 games today.  While QB's throwing for over 300 yards lost 4 games.  Only 1 of the QB's who threw for over 300 yards won their game. 

 

The quote from Bleacher Report is absurd.  Did the guy watch the game?  How many open targets did Allen miss today?  I count 2 - Brown on the 4th down and McKenzie on the long pass.  BTW, did anyone else think McKenzie looked like he was running in sand and actually slowed down on that play?  So on 41 attempted passes he missed 2 open guys - not bad. 

 

Allen hooked up nicely with Beasley & Brown multiple times but like Bleacher Report notes neither of these guys are spectacular - which is part of the Bill's offensive problem.  We don't have a single reliable game breaker.  After watching OBJ & Landry can there be any doubt of this?

 

As for Singletery what is Bleacher Report talking about?  He only got 8 carries so how the hell is Allen supposed to benefit from the "life" he's giving to the running game?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

Do you not understand how to discuss football? The vast majority of the time McDermott has faced a "good team", he has lost. Do you nitpick this much when discussing football in public?

I’m not the one who apparently can’t stand by what I say.  I readily admit there are things this team needs to work in.  I do not understand why Singletary did not get the ball more today.  I think that cost them the game.  

 

But let’s review again.  You said two things:  one was that McD can’t beat good teams, and then you said he’s done so three times.  I told you making declarative statements that can be proven false will make you look silly.  You don’t like looking silly, I guess.

 

They need to figure out some stuff and win the next two when favored and then beat the Boys or Steelers or both.  We all get that.  It’s not a secret.

[Junyto]

This team got exposed today against a bad football team. We have a long way to go till the end of the season, and I'm skeptical about making the playoffs. 

Miami is playing much better, Denver is a 50 /50 chance and Pittsburgh just beat the rams. The rest of the teams are losses. Not looking good the wheels are starting to come off. 

[Bangarang]

15 minutes ago, Halasjonny said:

McDermott is a great coach.

Josh Allen had a good game. 

Defense is great at pass defense but is physically soft! 
Mafia = whole lotta idiots

 

Point proven 

[Seven-N-Nine]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I’m not the one who apparently can’t stand by what I say.  I readily admit there are things this team needs to work in.  I do not understand why Singletary did not get the ball more today.  I think that cost them the game.  

 

But let’s review again.  You said two things:  one was that McD can’t beat good teams, and then you said he’s done so three times.  I told you making declarative statements that can be proven false will make you look silly.  You don’t like looking silly, I guess.

 

They need to figure out some stuff and win the next two when favored and then beat the Boys or Steelers or both.  We all get that.  It’s not a secret.

Do you read the Bible? I think you take things too literally. 

 

The season is not lost, however I feel I know what McDermott is, and to a lesser extent what Allen is.  IMO this team will never compete for a championship with McDermott as coach. I'm not even sure he will win an important regular season game let alone a playoff game. He's just too easy to out-coach.

[Halasjonny]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

Point proven 

We asked the guy to throw it 41 times and he didn’t turn it over... Singletary needs more touches.. 2 missed kicks.. 

[Bangarang]

Just now, Halasjonny said:

We asked the guy to throw it 41 times and he didn’t turn it over... Singletary needs more touches.. 2 missed kicks.. 

What a hilariously low bar to set. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

Do you read the Bible? I think you take things too literally. 

 

The season is not lost, however I feel I know what McDermott is, and to a lesser extent what Allen is.  IMO this team will never compete for a championship with McDermott as coach. I'm not even sure he will win an important regular season game let alone a playoff game. He's just too easy to out-coach.

When people make statements I believe they mean what they say.  Apparently you don’t mean what you say.  That’s nice to know; it will help readers here place your declarations into appropriate context.

 

McD is the coach and will be for a while.  Which is not to say there isn’t room for improvement and growth.

[CincyBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, Halasjonny said:

McDermott is a great coach.

Josh Allen had a good game. 

Defense is great at pass defense but is physically soft! 
Mafia = whole lotta idiots

 

 

I think this is fair.  While Allen and the offense were off at times their biggest problem was that they again missed out on 2 or 3 possessions because the D couldn't get the Browns off the field.

 

While everyone is raving about the great goal line stand, and it was impressive, the Browns had two long drives that devoured a big chunk of the 1st half.  And while those two drives only yielded 3 points you can't ignore that they kept the O off the field, robbed us of at least 2 extra first half possessions and made it more difficult for an already shaky O to get into a rhythm.

 

And again the D did not force a turnover.  That dropped INT cost the Bills about 35 yards in field position.  We know the O is weak and that this team depends on the D.  But that goes beyond holding the other team to 19 points and then crying because the O couldn't score 20 points.  It also means forcing TO's and putting our O in position to score points.  After 9 games we have only forced TWO TO's in opponents territory and only ONE TO in the opponents red zone.  This offense needs all the help it can get.  Given that the payroll & talent are concentrated on the D this is a reasonable expectation. 

 

And finally, given how this team is structured to have a strong D, I don't care how anemic the O has been or how many FG's we miss when we have a 4 point lead with less then 6 minutes left in the game and the opponent is on their own 18 yard line WE SHOULD WIN THE DAMN GAME. 

[Green Lightning]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

#2.  I completely disagree.  Josh Allen (if he is ever going to be a weapon) has to win using his big arm.

There needs to come a time when Daboll and McDermott own this and game plan that he is going to beat a team with the long ball.

Rotating Brown and Foster deep needs to happen and Josh needs to be "forced" to start connecting.

Josh has to make a play for the "hot girl" and stop trying to kiss his cousin.

 

How about stop trying to throw the long ball on third down and three. Prove to me he can make it some other time before launching these deep routes when we need to stay on the field.  He misses a guy open by 10 yards by another 10 yards. Pathetic. At this point just stay on the field and make first downs. Take the offseason to learn how to throw long again. 

[Seven-N-Nine]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

When people make statements I believe they mean what they say.  Apparently you don’t mean what you say.  That’s nice to know; it will help readers here place your declarations into appropriate context.

 

McD is the coach and will be for a while.  Which is not to say there isn’t room for improvement and growth.

He's not changing his coaching style or talent evaluation (culture over talent). I'm not sure small incremental improvement is going to accomplish anything meaningful.

[DuckyBoys]

Josh Allen looked deflated in his presser  I thought it was interesting when they asked him about the struggles with the deep ball. I worry they have him obsessing about not throwing picks  Lets hope things pick up for next week

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Seven-N-Nine said:

He's not changing his coaching style or talent evaluation (culture over talent). I'm not sure small incremental improvement is going to accomplish anything meaningful.

Another declarative statement I see.  That’s nice.

 

McD should sit down with Daboll tonight and make sure Singletary gets 20 touches a game minimum.

 

 

[london_bills]

3 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

He's not changing his coaching style or talent evaluation (culture over talent). I'm not sure small incremental improvement is going to accomplish anything meaningful.

 

2 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Josh Allen looked deflated in his presser  I thought it was interesting when they asked him about the struggles with the deep ball. I worry they have him obsessing about not throwing picks  Lets hope things pick up for next week

He did look deflated. He had more of an attitude earlier in the season, last season against the vikings. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by london_bills