Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?

[dayman]

1 minute ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Stop making things up        Makes you look foolish.   

 

Pats defense is elite this season.     Deal in facts 

 

Greatest since '85 bears? Lmfao. Let the season play out. 

[Teddy KGB]

Just now, Phil The Thrill said:

 

an elite defense after 4 games....um ok

 

You’re good at math ??

[Phil The Thrill]

25 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Maybe not. But the alternative was Kyle "I Give Up" Orton.

 

 

the alternative ended up winning 9 games whereas starting EJ might have won you half as many

[Bongo]

Nope

[Phil The Thrill]

1 minute ago, dayman said:

 

Greatest since '85 bears? Lmfao. Let the season play out. 

I don’t know about you but I hear the NE defense compared the 85 Bears every day!

[london_bills]

Best development for Allen is to stay in the pocket and throw.

[Teddy KGB]

1 minute ago, dayman said:

 

Greatest since '85 bears? Lmfao. Let the season play out. 

 

Best defenses 2019 

 

bears

pats

bills 

 

85 bears don’t seem relevant here 

 

you and Phil keep crusading against a 3-1 qb though ??????‍♂️

[Phil The Thrill]

Just now, Bongo said:

Nope

Why?

[LSHMEAB]

Yeah. A little. I was never really on board to begin with, but seeing the same mistakes in year 2 is concerning. He's also going to continue to get banged up if he continues to run the way he does and that is his calling card.

 

If he can't become more efficient, it's just not going to happen.

 

Love the kid. Love his moxie. He's really grown on me as a human being. But I just don't know at this point.

[Phil The Thrill]

Just now, Teddy KGB said:

 

Best defenses 2019 

 

bears

pats

bills 

 

85 bears don’t seem relevant here 

 

you and Phil keep crusading against a 3-1 qb though ??????‍♂️

if “crusading” means questioning whether a QB will stop turning the ball over 4 times a game then so be it.

 

Say what you will, but I am an Allen fan.  I want to see him succeed.  But I’m at the point where I need to see more progress.   There’s no way he should have played as poorly as he did yesterday 

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

Yeah. A little. I was never really on board to begin with, but seeing the same mistakes in year 2 is concerning. He's also going to continue to get banged up if he continues to run the way he does and that is his calling card.

 

If he can't become more efficient, it's just not going to happen.

 

Love the kid. Love his moxie. He's really grown on me as a human being. But I just don't know at this point.

Nicely said - I’m in the same boat as you.  

[Boatdrinks]

8 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

You are correct - I never compared EJ to Allen and I never thought Barkley should be played over Allen.  But to be fair....I don’t think anyone is hailing the NE defense as being THAT good.  That’s a bit of an exaggeration 

Have you listened to sports talk radio, watched NFLN or ESPN ? They are unabashedly gushing over NE on a daily basis. They’re wrong, but they are saying it. 

[london_bills]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yeah. A little. I was never really on board to begin with, but seeing the same mistakes in year 2 is concerning. He's also going to continue to get banged up if he continues to run the way he does and that is his calling card.

 

If he can't become more efficient, it's just not going to happen.

 

Love the kid. Love his moxie. He's really grown on me as a human being. But I just don't know at this point.

Totally. Why was he running head first like a running back? I know he has running talent, I get it. Slide!! I found that more frustrating than the interceptions

Slide. You need to be there for the next play. 

[Bongo]

6 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Why?

Because I think he’s young and still learning. Was it frustrating when he would look for the hero pass downfield vs. taking the short play? Yes. Has he also led us back for wins? Yes. 
 

The talent is there. The leadership is there. It’s too early, in my opinion, to give up on him. I still think he’ll be the answer and one loss to a great defense after he has been knocked out of it by a bull#### hit before he could potentially complete yet another comeback doesn’t change my mind. I think that is way too emotionally kneejerk.

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

if “crusading” means questioning whether a QB will stop turning the ball over 4 times a game then so be it.

 

Say what you will, but I am an Allen fan.  I want to see him succeed.  But I’m at the point where I need to see more progress.   There’s no way he should have played as poorly as he did yesterday 

Nicely said - I’m in the same boat as you.  

Obviously 4 turnovers a game cannot continue. It will be the end of JA if it does so no use in worrying. He will be replaced if it does. If the Bills HC and GM are ok with his progress, that’s what matters. Winning games matters most. Even with his mistakes, It was very possible that Allen pulls that game out. I didn’t get that sense with Barkley, but that’s just me. 

Anyway, it’s hardly shocking he had a bad outing vs a BB defense. If you had asked NFL media types if they would be surprised if Allen had his worst game to date in yesterday’s matchup, they invariably would have said “ not at all”. His track record vs young QBs is great. 

Allen absolutely needs to cut way down on the unforced errors. Throw it away, and live to fight another down. 

[Teddy KGB]

16 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

if “crusading” means questioning whether a QB will stop turning the ball over 4 times a game then so be it.

 

Say what you will, but I am an Allen fan.  I want to see him succeed.  But I’m at the point where I need to see more progress.   There’s no way he should have played as poorly as he did yesterday .  

 

Big Ben sucks too !       Fire everyone !!! 

 

 

 

Fire Tom Brady too !!!    Bills shut him down 

 

??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️         I feel shame for the Monday morning hot takers 

 

NE defense is awesome.     Deal with it.  

Edited October 1, 2019 by Teddy KGB

[Boatdrinks]

13 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Totally. Why was he running head first like a running back? I know he has running talent, I get it. Slide!! I found that more frustrating than the interceptions

Slide. You need to be there for the next play. 

Sliding wasn’t going to get the first down. There’s a time to slide and that wasn’t it. A cheap hit doesn’t mean you don’t fight for a key first down. 

[Shooter McGavin]

1 hour ago, Stallions said:

Me too!

[Phil The Thrill]

5 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Big Ben sucks too !       Fire everyone !!! 

 

 

 

Fire Tom Brady too !!!    Bills shut him down 

 

??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️         I feel shame for the Monday morning hot takers 

 

NE defense is awesome.     Deal with it.  

Your too emotionally charged to think logically.  

[Teddy KGB]

Just now, Phil The Thrill said:

Your too emotionally charged to think logically.  

 

Sorry the facts crushed your emotions. 

 

Project less ?

[london_bills]

8 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Sliding wasn’t going to get the first down. There’s a time to slide and that wasn’t it. A cheap hit doesn’t mean you don’t fight for a key first down. 

I hear you but his health as the franchise QB is more important than diving head first for a first down. His coach would say the same thing.

 

Its symptomatic of his moment to moment thinking which can be brilliant but can also be haphazard.

 

Easy to say after the event but weren't you concerned he would get injured at some point? He was getting hit alot and put himself in harm's way too much. I understand the game is about 'toughness' but if you keep running head first as a QB your going to get your head smashed sooner or later.

 

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

5 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Maybe... but I see progression with Jones.  You saw it with Mayfield and Lamar.  I’m not seeing the same amount of progress with Josh.  He seems to be making the mistakes he made as “Bad Josh” last 

 

With all the hate on Allen, where is the discussion on the coaching.  Certainly Allen is responsible for his play, but what about the coaching?  Everyone here, to include team management, knew he was a long term project with a high ceiling.  He wasn’t even supposed to play year one.  So where is the discussion on Dorsey, Dabol, and McDermott?  They share in the responsibility to coach the hero ball mentality out of him, or at least when to use it.  When they are in FG range, is someone telling Allen through the headset, Do No Take a Sack here!  Sure, he should have the situational awareness, but coaches should helping him as well.  This weekend was the first I heard of Dabol getting in his ear.  Next time, grab his face mask or something.  I still have a lot of faith in Allen, because if he and the coaches can get this figured out, he can become the franchise QB we have been waiting for.  As hard as it is in today’s NFL, we must have patience.  As someone who also followed the Chargers, Brees had a slow start as well, he didn’t really start blossoming until year 3.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, london_bills said:

I hear you but his health as the franchise QB is more important than diving head first for a first down. His coach would say the same thing.

 

Its symptomatic of his moment to moment thinking which can be brilliant but can also be haphazard.

 

Easy to say after the event but weren't you concerned he would get injured at some point? He was getting hit alot and put himself in harm's way too much. I understand the game is about 'toughness' but if you keep running head first as a QB your going to get your head smashed sooner or later.

 

 

Somewhat concerned, but he’s a big guy and seems pretty sturdy. He’s made a lot of big plays like that and they’re exciting. It’s a fine line, and the NFL doesn’t do a lot to protect QBs that aren’t among the anointed ones.Look at the shots Newton has been subjected to. I get it, but I also love his competitive fire and don’t want that going out of his game. I want him to hate losing, especially to NE. It’s a whole other level of hate for that team. He wasn’t running the whole time with his head down either. 

[bmur66]

14 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I was at the game Sunday and there was 1 reason the Bills lost the game.  They lost the game for one reason - Josh Allen.  He was absolutely putrid at QB.  I’m a big fan of Allen but he was THE reason why we lost.  
 

We’re starting to get to the point where you can’t use the whole “lack of experience” excuses for Allen.  For all the progress be seemed to make, we still see him revert back to the traits (holding onto the ball, poor footwork passing up short routes, inaccuracies) from college.  
 

We saw on Sunday that the thing he does well, scrambling, leaves his open for huge cheap shots to the head.  

He also doesn’t seem to be elevating the offense either.  Take a look at how much better NYG has been since Daniel Jones took over last week.  Or how much better Cleveland was behind Baker and not Tyrod.  Or to a MUCH lesser extent Gardiner Minshew in Jacksonville.   Allen has struggled to generate much more than 20 points per game.
 

So have you lost faith in Josh Allen?

 

If you haven’t lost faith, what give you hope that he will eventually start elevating the offense?  

I’m completely on the fence, but trending toward skepticism, unfortunately. 

Absolutely not.

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Good one.  Forgot him.

 

Ben Roethlisberger took the Steelers to 15 wins, the AFC North title, and an appearance in the AFC Conference championship as a rookie in 2004.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to 11 wins, a wild card berth, and an appearance in the AFC Conference championship as a rookie in 2008.

Andy Dalton took the Bengals to a wild card berth as a rookie in 2011.

Andrew Luck took the Colts to 11 wins and a wild card berth as a rookie in 2013.

Deshaun Watson looked good for a rookie QB in 2017 before he was sidelined with a season ending injury.  He came back in 2018 and led the Texans to an 11-5 record and the AFC South title, so he pretty much "got it" from the get-go.

Baker Mayfield set the rookie TD record in 2018.

 

I would say that all of these rookie QBs "got it right off the bat", so rookie QBs playing competently isn't as rare as it may have been 30 years ago. 

 

[london_bills]

1 minute ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

With all the hate on Allen, where is the discussion on the coaching.  Certainly Allen is responsible for his play, but what about the coaching?  Everyone here, to include team management, knew he was a long term project with a high ceiling.  He want even supposed to play year one.  So where is the discussion on Dorsey, Dabol, and McDermott?  They share in the responsibility to coach the hero ball mentality out of him, or at least when to use it.  When they are in FG range, is someone telling Allen through the headset, Do No Take a Sack here!  Sure, he should have the situational awareness, but coaches should helping him as well.  This weekend was the first I heard of Dabol getting in his ear.  Next time, grab his face mask or something.  I still have a lot of faith in Allen, because if he and the coaches can get this figured out, he can become the franchise QB we have been waiting for.  As hard as it is in today’s NFL, we must have patience.  As someone who also followed the Chargers, Brees had a slow start as well, he didn’t really start blossoming until year 3.

Its harder to see what's going on with the coaching isn't it.

 

With Allen we can see what's happening or make our judgments easier. With the coaching there has to be an element of faith they are doing the right thing.

 

Dabolls been animated at him on the sideline in this game and the Bengals game after the INTS. Regarding the interceptions and sacks, McDermott said in today's presser (paraphrasing) that 'We have to continue to make it CLEAR what is acceptable and not'.

 

However, Allen did say in last week's interview that 'mcdermott does a great job of teaching us situational football'. ?

[QCity]

14 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

So have you lost faith in Josh Allen?

 

It certainly isn't increasing.

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Ben Roethlisberger took the Steelers to 15 wins, the AFC North title, and an appearance in the AFC Conference championship as a rookie in 2004.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to 11 wins, a wild card berth, and an appearance in the AFC Conference championship as a rookie in 2008.

Andy Dalton took the Bengals to a wild card berth as a rookie in 2011.

Andrew Luck took the Colts to 11 wins and a wild card berth as a rookie in 2013.

Deshaun Watson looked good for a rookie QB in 2017 before he was sidelined with a season ending injury.  He came back in 2018 and led the Texans to an 11-5 record and the AFC South title, so he pretty much "got it" from the get-go.

Baker Mayfield set the rookie TD record in 2018.

 

I would say that all of these rookie QBs "got it right off the bat", so rookie QBs playing competently isn't as rare as it may have been 30 years ago. 

 

Ben R also threw very limited passes per game that year. It’s also possible that JA could lead the Bills to a WC berth in his first full season as starter. Lots of football left to go before any decision is made on this guy. Every player is different, and it really doesn’t matter if fans believe in him from the jump. They’re not making the decisions, and that’s probably a very good thing. 

[Augie]

25 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Sliding wasn’t going to get the first down. There’s a time to slide and that wasn’t it. A cheap hit doesn’t mean you don’t fight for a key first down. 

 

I’m good with a slide and going for it on 4th and 2 there. I truly respect how much he wants to get it done, but he hurts the team when he’s out. Tough situation. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

HELL F IN NO!!!

 

Duh.

[Mango]

6 hours ago, Juice_32 said:

 

It is incomprehensible to me that you'd take Dalton, Cousins or Flacco over Allen right now. Talk about recency bias. Would you have made this insane claim after the Giants game? No chance.

 

I would take Dalton right now on this team, for just this year. He wouldn’t be nearly as good at hero ball, but I don’t think we would have had to either. I’d throw Brisset into the mix as well. 

 

I am not throwing JA’s future out. Just looking at how this team is set up and the QB play they need. 

[london_bills]

9 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Somewhat concerned, but he’s a big guy and seems pretty sturdy. He’s made a lot of big plays like that and they’re exciting. It’s a fine line, and the NFL doesn’t do a lot to protect QBs that aren’t among the anointed ones.Look at the shots Newton has been subjected to. I get it, but I also love his competitive fire and don’t want that going out of his game. I want him to hate losing, especially to NE. It’s a whole other level of hate for that team. He wasn’t running the whole time with his head down either. 

Keep the fire. Just play in a way that doesnt shorten your career and leaves the bills with a void at QB.

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Augie said:

 

I’m good with a slide and going for it on 4th and 2 there. I truly respect how much he wants to get it done, but he hurts the team when he’s out. Tough situation. 

They may have done that if he had. He was definitely in the moment.  It’s a tough situation for sure, and he still has to learn when to say when. I’d say he’ll likely always err a bit on the side of dangerous, even when he tones it down. 

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Ben Roethlisberger took the Steelers to 15 wins, the AFC North title, and an appearance in the AFC Conference championship as a rookie in 2004.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to 11 wins, a wild card berth, and an appearance in the AFC Conference championship as a rookie in 2008.

Andy Dalton took the Bengals to a wild card berth as a rookie in 2011.

Andrew Luck took the Colts to 11 wins and a wild card berth as a rookie in 2013.

Deshaun Watson looked good for a rookie QB in 2017 before he was sidelined with a season ending injury.  He came back in 2018 and led the Texans to an 11-5 record and the AFC South title, so he pretty much "got it" from the get-go.

Baker Mayfield set the rookie TD record in 2018.

 

I would say that all of these rookie QBs "got it right off the bat", so rookie QBs playing competently isn't as rare as it may have been 30 years ago. 

 

Luck is a good one.  Big Ben and Flacco relies on a strong D and strong running game, which may not be a bad idea for the Bills.  Let Allen develop.

[london_bills]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’m good with a slide and going for it on 4th and 2 there. I truly respect how much he wants to get it done, but he hurts the team when he’s out. Tough situation. 

Absolutely, that way you 'develop' him by giving him a pressure 4th down.

[Augie]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

They may have done that if he had. He was definitely in the moment.  It’s a tough situation for sure, and he still has to learn when to say when. I’d say he’ll likely always err a bit on the side of dangerous, even when he tones it down. 

 

Hopefully this is part of the lesson that helps him tone it down. He’s a smart kid, but that was a dumb and panicked game. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still all in until it’s clear it won’t work. I won’t panic after one horrible game, in fact I saw this coming. The path will not be straight or easy, but the ceiling is ridiculous. Time will tell if he gets there. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

11 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Its harder to see what's going on with the coaching isn't it.

 

With Allen we can see what's happening or make our judgments easier. With the coaching there has to be an element of faith they are doing the right thing.

 

Dabolls been animated at him on the sideline in this game and the Bengals game after the INTS. Regarding the interceptions and sacks, McDermott said in today's presser (paraphrasing) that 'We have to continue to make it CLEAR what is acceptable and not'.

 

However, Allen did say in last week's interview that 'mcdermott does a great job of teaching us situational football'. ?

 

Well, bottom line is.  He and the coaches will get it fixed or he’ll be a backup somewhere else in a few years.  He’s definitely shown strides, but for the sake of the franchise, the Bills need to continue to invest in the infrastructure around him and he NEEDS TO PLAY too see if he will develop into the QB we desire.  That way if he flames out, the next QB will be in a better situation.  

Edited October 1, 2019 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Absolutely, that way you 'develop' him by giving him a pressure 4th down.

 

His offseason should include a TON of watching Russell Wilson film. Live to fight another day. 

[Green Lightning]

Haven't lost faith but the guy is a turnover machine right now. The picks he is throwing are just assinine decisions. He is repeating his mistakes and that is a big concern to me. 

[frostbitmic]

Losing faith in Allen ... NO

 

Losing faith in the NFL ... YES

[Bangarang]

59 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Sliding wasn’t going to get the first down. There’s a time to slide and that wasn’t it. A cheap hit doesn’t mean you don’t fight for a key first down. 

He was already wrapped up before the hit and was still a few yards short of the 1st down. He takes a lot of hits and needs to be smarter when he runs.